Kiln Question ... My Head Is About To Explode!

[Firelilly]

I've been looking at kiln info all morning. And this isn't the first morning I've spent looking and looking at kiln info. I feel like it's probably one of the most important pieces of equipment I'll be purchasing, but it's also the item that has me the most confused. At this point I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more! I think I want to get this kiln...

http://www.waleapparatus.com/details/40_1190.asp

But I don't understand the Infinite Control Switch dealie. Would I be able to program this kiln so that it holds at a certain temp while I'm working on beads and then hit a button that will start pre-programmed annealing/cool down process?

Also, I'm not sure if I would be able to fuse small pieces in this kiln. Could I?

Thanks so much for any info, comments or suggestions anyone might have regarding this kiln...or any other kiln for that matter!


Lil <---- who has a big'ol kiln confusion headache :confused:

[IF-Designs]

www.cdvkiln.com

they have these same ones and also the double tall...
I suggest te double tall door myself its the one I have and its been invaluble if I would have had the single door i would not be able to get some stuff in my kiln.
I also chose the barltett controller over the orton it was just easier for my to understand nd program.

[Firelilly]

www.cdvkiln.com

they have these same ones and also the double tall...
I suggest te double tall door myself its the one I have and its been invaluble if I would have had the single door i would not be able to get some stuff in my kiln.
I also chose the barltett controller over the orton it was just easier for my to understand nd program.

Ah ok...I see it. It has a four inch door instead of two and has an Orton controller. I'm liking that!

Thanks!

Lil

[DesertDreamer]

An infinite switch is basically like the knobs on your stove. There's warm, hot and hotter, up to whatever the maximum temp of the kiln is. Once you get to know your kiln and how it ramps, AND read your pyrometer, you can predict where you need to set it, though there's always some babysitting required. With a digital controller you can be much more precise and accurate.

I had a similar kiln with an infinite switch for 3 years. I finally sprang for the digital controller when I got into more and more boro and wanted to be able to ramp up and down to strike certain colors. I have the Bartlett 3K and like it very much.

Yanno, one of the best things you can do is to pick up the phone and call Wale. I dealt with them all the time I lived in PA. Ask for Elliot, Mike or Dan. They're great, very knowledgable and helpful, and I'm sure they can find a kiln that's a good fit for you.

[yeepers]

If you want to be able to program your kiln and not have to "babysit" it then you need a digital controller. You can get kilns with controllers built in or entirely separate.

I have a kiln from Mike (Glass Hive) and it's super duper! I'd highly recommend it!!!

-Yee

[DancingSalamander]

I have this kiln. I like it, but you may want to consider the larger door if you make bigger beads. That was good advice.

My kiln is within arms length. I usually ramp up at 3.5 and then once I get to annealing temp, I reach over and turn it down to 2.5 and it stays within the annealing range. I believe my kiln is a bit warmer than the pyrometer reads. If I had to do it over, I would have sprung for the digital controller. Someday, when I have the extra funds I will purchase one. It's a hassle when it comes to ramp down time. If it comes down to this one versus no kiln, go with this one. It's not the perfect kiln, but it's a good one and I believe quite versatile.

From the above, it sounds like I don't like my kiln, but it really has served me well.:grin: I'm just looking forward to the future of bigger, better, more expense that sings and cooks my dinner. O'kay, maybe I'm unrealistic in my expectations.

I can't answer the question regarding fusing. Good luck

Stacia

[Firelilly]

If you want to be able to program your kiln and not have to "babysit" it then you need a digital controller.

-Yee

For sure looking to NOT have to babysit the kiln, Yee. I think that would have disaster written all over it for me. :p

So maybe Wale will substitute controllers? I'll give them a call, thanks!

edit: If I had to do it over, I would have sprung for the digital controller.

Stacia

Yepper, I hear ya on the digital controller. Thanks Stacia.

Lil

[IF-Designs]

oh and I can fuse in the double tall so i imagine you could in the smaller one too mine has teh Bartlett controller which I llove its very easy to program abnd holds 4 different programs with 6 segments each.....

[bolimasa]

I have that kiln, but bought it from CDVkiln. The bead door is a little small, but I mostly batch anneal, so this doesn't bug me. The nice thing is that you can fuse in this kiln, and I think interms of interior space/ dollar this is a great kiln. They also have the same kiln but taller, with a larger door. I think this one may only be annealler, not a fuser, but I think if you speak to Marty at CDV thy can get it changed so it will hit fusing temps. (Someone tell if I'm correct about this) Had this been an option when I purchased, that is, for sure, the kiln I would have purchased. So you may want to consider whether of not fusing is in your future, as all fusing kilns can anneal, but annealer can't all fuse.
And absolutely get a digital controller, it is, absolutely, money well spent!

[Firelilly]

oh and I can fuse in the double tall so i imagine you could in the smaller one too mine has teh Bartlett controller which I llove its very easy to program abnd holds 4 different programs with 6 segments each.....

Well, I've looked at everything I can find from, what appears to be the Cadillacs (at least as far as price goes anyway) at Arrow Springs ...

To Aim Kilns, that 84BD looks pretty nice too...

....and I've looked at the mailbox and toolbox kilns which I think would be great if I didn't have any ideas on doing anything else with glass other than beads.

and I've looked at all the Jen-Ken kilns over and over again.

I think I'm still leaning toward the Jen-Ken annealer/fusing kiln. I do like that bigger door on the taller one but it might be overkill.

Bolimasa, IF Designs (sorry I don't know your real name!) said that you can fuse in the taller kiln. So, knowing that, if you had it to do over again would you go with the taller kiln so you could have the bigger door?

Lil

[GinnyHampton]

To Aim Kilns, that 84BD looks pretty nice too...




For what it's worth, this is what I have and it's worked just fine for me. My ONLY (small) issue is that I'm not crazy about how narrow it is. Besides that I've never had one problem with it :)

[Firelilly]

For what it's worth, this is what I have and it's worked just fine for me. My ONLY (small) issue is that I'm not crazy about how narrow it is. Besides that I've never had one problem with it :)

Yeah, I think this is the hardest bit... trying to, from where I'm sitting, imagine these bead doors and try to envision what it will be like sticking mandrels in there and lining them up. That's making that taller door very appealing to me.

Lil

[bolimasa]

Absolutely! I think the bigger door would be great for beads, and the extra height good for slumping, or doing pot melts!

Regarding fusing, I'm pretty sure that this kiln may not, as is, reach full fusing temperature, but it may be able to do some fusing. I'm pretty sure the CDV add calls it a bead annealer. I do remember reading some threads where thay talked about buying this kiln with an upgrade to fuse. If fusing is in your future and you want his kiln I'd call CDV and ask, just to be sure!

Well, I've looked at everything I can find from, what appears to be the Cadillacs (at least as far as price goes anyway) at Arrow Springs ...

To Aim Kilns, that 84BD looks pretty nice too...

....and I've looked at the mailbox and toolbox kilns which I think would be great if I didn't have any ideas on doing anything else with glass other than beads.

and I've looked at all the Jen-Ken kilns over and over again.

I think I'm still leaning toward the Jen-Ken annealer/fusing kiln. I do like that bigger door on the taller one but it might be overkill.

Bolimasa, IF Designs (sorry I don't know your real name!) said that you can fuse in the taller kiln. So, knowing that, if you had it to do over again would you go with the taller kiln so you could have the bigger door?

Lil

[Firelilly]

Check this out if you get a chance, Bolimasa...
http://cdvkiln.com/menuglas.htm

See the sixth kiln down in the list? It's called a Tall Bead Annealer but it fires up to 1700 degrees and comes with shelves for fusing. That's the one I'm talking about.

Shoot! I can't link directly to the page that shows the kiln. You have to click on the "Bead, Small, and PMC Kilns" link and then count down six kilns to the tall one.

Lil

[Suestress]

Hi Lil!
I too am looking for an annealer. Can I ask why you didn't choose the arrow springs annealer? I was planning on driving up there to purchase one on Wednesday this week. As you stated it is an important and expensive piece of equipment and I don't want to make a mistake.

Susan

[Firelilly]

Hi, Susan...

Oh! Ya had to come and tempt me didn't ya? :lol:

I think the Arrow Springs kilns are beautiful. And they're probably well worth the money. And I'd love to have that AF138-T4 with a digital controller. I'm just trying to save some money. The Jen-Ken I'm looking at will be about $400.00 less than the Arrow Springs kiln that I like. And $400 bucks would go a long ways toward buying glass and frit! hehe

With all the other expenses of trying to get a space together to be able to melt glass at home I just felt I should pinch some pennies if I could. But shoot! Don't go by me! I'm just hoping I'm not biting off my nose to spite my face by trying to save money on the kiln.

If money wasn't a factor I think I'd go with Arrow Springs. I don't think I would worry about your choice to go with them.

Are you going to get a digital controller too?

Good luck and happy melting!

Lil

[Suestress]

After I read your post, I went back to the arrow springs website to take another look. I was thinking that the kiln price included everything, but now I think you have to buy everything separate (the controler, etc.). That just shows you how ignorant I am :). Maybe I will rethink my choice becuase you are right...$400 will buy a lot of glass.

Susan

[Firelilly]

I don't know if I'd give up on your Arrow Springs kiln that fast, Susan. If you're within driving distance of the place and you can go to some sort of storefront operation that they have, I think it would be worth the trip.

You wouldn't have shipping to deal with, either for the initial purchase or in the event that the kiln should ever need to have any work done. And they might have some reconditioned, cheaper, kilns. I would go check it out for sure!

Lil

[splynda]

I called Arrow Springs Monday before last and it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get a kiln . .

[PaulaD]

Hi Lil. The tall kiln is overkill for what you want. You'd have to put the shelve half way up to fuse in it as the heat source would be too far away otherwise so then you only have half of the space. And the only thing you need 1700 degrees for is to rake. That kiln was designed for sculpture. You are also using double the amperage of the Chili Pepper. I have used many kilns and annealers and personally love the Chili Pepper and have chosen to use it and sell it at the studio. (Plus only a 2 week wait if you are within the U.S.) You could get the Chili Pepper and then a tiny jewel box fusing kiln for pendents and such. It' s very difficult to find a kiln that does both things well. Most are just a compromise. I have seperate kilns for fusing and annealing. Paula

[Firelilly]

I called Arrow Springs Monday before last and it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get a kiln . .
Holy moly! That long huh?

Oh, I'm all in a dither, Paula. One minute I want one kiln and the next minute I want another. So you really think the kilns out there that are sold as annealer/fuser kilns are not what they're advertised as? They're going to do one or the other poorly?

To make it worse I'd like to have a kiln that I could do enamling on small pieces of metal as well. I was kind of wondering if I could work inside a bead door for that. I'm not asking for the moon or anything! lol

Lil

[Suestress]

I called Arrow Springs Monday before last and it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get a kiln . .

I called yesterday and they gave me the same answer. I was so disappointed. I thought I could just go pick one up. :(

[HardwoodTrailGlass]

I love my Chili Pepper w/ digital controller, would not have bought one w/ out it!

Carrie

[donnam]

What would you recommend to someone who wants to be able to anneal beads (including boro), fuse dichroic, and be able to slump dinner plates?? :rolleyes:
Thanks!
Donna

[dpglassworks]

I have this kiln have had it for about a year and a half. I absolutelty love it!!

I mostly fuse... I do at least 5 firings a week and it runs about 4 hours for each firing and I have not ever (knock on wood) had one bit of trouble with it. It is a real workhorse!

I did a ton of research before I chose this one and since I mostly fuse, but at the time I bought it I knew I wanted to try lampworking, so I wanted the bead door... this has been perfect... my lampworking is pretty pathetic, but I still put those sorry little beads in that bead door... they don't crack, but they might as well.....anyway....

I got mine from 2 Lasses Glass or something like that on Ebay at a good auction price by watching and loosing a few auctions but my final price was good since I waited, I think CDV Kiln had the next best price but shipping was high and Clay King in Spartanburg, SC was going to be my net choice for the same kiln because I could pick it up (about 1 hour from me).

I know what you mean about your head about to explode!!
After the kiln... I researched the torch... it isn't easy choosing this stuff, but if you buy it and it doesn't work out... I have learned somebody will buy it on Ebay!!!

[dpglassworks]

I have this kiln have had it for about a year and a half. I absolutelty love it!!

I mostly fuse... I do at least 5 firings a week and it runs about 4 hours for each firing and I have not ever (knock on wood) had one bit of trouble with it. It is a real workhorse!

I did a ton of research before I chose this one and since I mostly fuse, but at the time I bought it I knew I wanted to try lampworking, so I wanted the bead door... this has been perfect... my lampworking is pretty pathetic, but I still put those sorry little beads in that bead door... they don't crack, but they might as well.....anyway....

I got mine from 2 Lasses Glass or something like that on Ebay at a good auction price by watching and loosing a few auctions but my final price was good since I waited, I think CDV Kiln had the next best price but shipping was high and Clay King in Spartanburg, SC was going to be my net choice for the same kiln because I could pick it up (about 1 hour from me).

I know what you mean about your head about to explode!!
After the kiln... I researched the torch... it isn't easy choosing this stuff, but if you buy it and it doesn't work out... I have learned somebody will buy it on Ebay!!!
Sorry, the link didn't attach... it's the Jen Ken bead annealer kiln with the digital controller from Firelilly's post

http://www.waleapparatus.com/details/40_1190.asp

[Firelilly]

Thanks very much for your input, Dianne! :)

Lil

[Jenn L'Rhe]

I'm with Dianne, I have the JenKen off ebay from Three Lasses Glass Classes. It is wonderful. I've had it for a year with intentions to fuse but have not yet. I use a bead rack that is about 6" long. When it fills up I move them off into a pile beside the rack...plenty of room. I strongly recommend the digital controller, I would much rather sleep than babysit.
Kay