Overwhelmed & Not Even Started

[thouston]

I think I'm gonna puke.

I've finally narrowed my torch choices down to the Carlisle Mini CC, the Bobcat, or the Nortel Minor. (It's only taken three weeks)
I have exactly $830 to work with; supplies, torch, ventilation and all.
I'm terrified I won't be smart enough to figure out the gases and I'm stuck on the ventilation. But I'm moving forward.

Which of these torches do you recommend?

For the ventilation, I am researching these threads and others on different sites, but now my head is spinning. I'm learning about the Barley Box.
What do you think?

I've got a small spare bedroom to work in with a decent sized window.
I'm reading all these threads and my head is spinning. I have no studio closeby to examine and no friends yet in the lampworking business.

[ruca]

for a torch, i would consider the cricket. its out-done or been equal to all three torches you've listed, & (i'm pretty sure) its less expensive then all three - the introductory price is $139 plus shipping. check out http://www.glasstorchtech.com/cricket.html

as far as regulators, i got a cheap knock-off victor kit off ebay for like $110 including shipping, this gave me my regs & oxygen hose (the fuel hose it comes with it won't work for safety reasons, you need t grade hose) i then sold off the torch & tips that came with it for $35 on craigslist, so i ended up with my regulators & oxygen hose for only $75 which is pretty darn good, in my book.

check out this tutorial by mark wilson for how to build your own small annealer on the cheap, it'll atleast get you started: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273306&highlight=stovepipe

someone else i'm sure will jump in & help you with ventilation, i don't know much about the barley box so i can't help you there. i do suggest scouring craigslist for high CFM fans, i got a 890cfm fan for only $20 which saved me over $100.

check out thrift stores/garage sales for cool little tools, anything you're going to use to poke or push with should be stainless steel or copper.

good luck, if i have anymore ideas i'll pop in again! ;)

[ruca]

also, have you considered starting on a hot head so you can use more of that money on kiln/glass/tools/ventilation? it might limit you a bit, but it'll give you a chance to learn & save, & its a lot less complicated.

[ewdb]

also, have you considered starting on a hot head so you can use more of that money on kiln/glass/tools/ventilation? it might limit you a bit, but it'll give you a chance to learn & save, & its a lot less complicated.

yup, i'd agree. if that's yr total budget spend it on ventilation and glass. then get a kiln, then upgrade your torch.

[ruca]

sundance glass has some pretty nicely priced hot head starter kits from about $75 to $200 plus shipping .. if you got the highest end one that would leave you about $600 for ventilation, a kiln, & glass. :D the highest priced one i think comes with some glass, & some tools to get you started..

http://sundanceglass.com/kitslamp.htm

[squid]

I would avoid the Sundance kits actually - I got one and you get a bunch of stuff you don't need.

I have a cricket and LOVE it - highly recommend it. I started on a hothead, went to a minor, and now a cricket.

[ruca]

I would avoid the Sundance kits actually - I got one and you get a bunch of stuff you don't need.


probably true with the larger kits, but the #1 (lowest price) kit looks like a pretty good deal if you have nothing - you get your didy glasses, hot head, bracket, mandrels, bead release, plus some other extras for only $74 plus ship. i know buying just the glasses, bracket, & torch seperately would be more than this.

i could be wrong though, i've never used a hot head, this is all just from the small amount of research i did. ;)

[squid]

Oh and whatever you do, do not use the crap bead release from Sundance. OMG that stuff is enough to make you never want to make beads again. Blue something - ugh - it sucks.

[squid]

probably true with the larger kits, but the #1 (lowest price) kit looks like a pretty good deal if you have nothing - you get your didy glasses, hot head, bracket, mandrels, bead release, plus some other extras for only $74 plus ship. i know buying just the glasses, bracket, & torch seperately would be more than this.

i could be wrong though, i've never used a hot head, this is all just from the small amount of research i did. ;)

you're probably right about the lowest price one :)

[Rose]

I also suggest the Cricket. It's worth a little wait.

If you have natural gas in your house you can possibly hook into that. If not you need to keep that propane tank outside and somehow pipe it in. I LOVE NG and so does the Cricket.

Ventilation will be the most confusing issue. If you can somehow set something up to vent out a window that will help. (Instead of cutting 10 in. hole in a brand new stucco house, like I did!)

[IF-Designs]

I think id get the cricket, a 5lpm oxy con, a good vent fan (Id spend the most on that), some nice torching glasses $40-100, bead release $20, assorted glass :) hoses (20-25 harbor freight is great for these) I think you can do it!

[Beckah]

Started with the MiniCC and now using the Cricket. I definitely like the Cricket much more than the MiniCC!

[FairyVerre]

Cricket has gotten much press but IF you ever want to do boro or larger than say 1 inch or so beads you might go with the mini cc. It has come highly recommended by Corinna Tettinger - Queen of Lampworking - she has tried them ALL (and rates them on her site) ! And I think it can be used for many years with Never having to upgrade from all the others mentioned, since it has a larger flame area. I think you can get one for less than $200 spend the rest on ventilation ($100 or so) and a oxy machine ($300), didys, and fusion ( my personal fav) bead release and you may even have at least $100 for some Glass - ( make sure you buy when on sale) like at Frantz right now ! PLUS> FREE Bucket O'Mud !

[beadsoncypress]

I have had no issues with my set-up at all in three years. Carlisle Mini CC with Barb connections, BBQ regulator (see the other threads about this), t-hoses and I use a oxy concentrator (no hassling with oxygen!) Used ones are all around! Check Renee's Garage sale for a great deal! Crock pot or fiber blanket, some mandrels and glass and you're ready to go (don't forget some diddy's!). Do you have someone to batch anneal those beauties? I've never worked on a HH, but I hear they are LOUD! Good luck!

[Sue in Maine]

Cricket has gotten much press but IF you ever want to do boro or larger than say 1 inch or so beads you might go with the mini cc. It has come highly recommended by Corinna Tettinger - Queen of Lampworking - she has tried them ALL (and rates them on her site) ! And I think it can be used for many years with Never having to upgrade from all the others mentioned, since it has a larger flame area. I think you can get one for less than $200 spend the rest on ventilation ($100 or so) and a oxy machine ($300), didys, and fusion ( my personal fav) bead release and you may even have at least $100 for some Glass - ( make sure you buy when on sale) like at Frantz right now ! PLUS> FREE Bucket O'Mud !

Sorry but the crickett is much hotter and has a more penetrating heat for working with boro than the mini cc. I'd go with the crickett.... and I have both a mini cc and a crickett. The great part of the crickett is that it was designed with oxy-cons in mind and, wow, they did a great job.

Sue

[betsymn]

Go with the Cricket. It's a hot little torch with a good price. Then down the road if you want and have the money, you can go bigger.

[Mary K]

I also agree about the Cricket, wish it had been my first torch, could have saved a lot of money.
But before you get too fixated on choosing a torch I hope you give as much or more consideration to thinking about ventilation. There is no torch or kiln out there that can undo the damage you can do to your physical body with poor ventilation/no ventilation.
Ventilation is step one in setting up a glass studio. Protect yourself and all those you love by providing good ventilation and save yourself a lot of regrets.

[Beckah]

Cricket has gotten much press but IF you ever want to do boro or larger than say 1 inch or so beads you might go with the mini cc. It has come highly recommended by Corinna Tettinger - Queen of Lampworking - she has tried them ALL (and rates them on her site) ! And I think it can be used for many years with Never having to upgrade from all the others mentioned, since it has a larger flame area. I think you can get one for less than $200 spend the rest on ventilation ($100 or so) and a oxy machine ($300), didys, and fusion ( my personal fav) bead release and you may even have at least $100 for some Glass - ( make sure you buy when on sale) like at Frantz right now ! PLUS> FREE Bucket O'Mud !

I hated doing boro with my MiniCC which is why I ordered both a Cricket and a Betta. I found the larger flame area of the MiniCC to be a huge drawback when working with boro -- everything melted rather than just the parts that I wanted melted. I definitely prefer either the Cricket or Betta for boro -- both have a tighter, hotter flame. And the Cricket has a vastly superior pinpoint flame to the MiniCC. I love the Cricket pinpoint flame!

Also the MiniCC needs more oxygen than the Cricket. I can turn my Regalia way down and run the Cricket just fine. I definitely have to go to at least 7 or above to run the MiniCC anywhere near its best. So if you're going the oxycon route, you'll be able to get a less expensive oxycon.

[earlbacher]

the Cricket is fine for smaller boro.. i dont mess with the soft glass much anymore, and for my large stuff, i use a CC (not the mini CC) but use my Cricket for smaller sculptural stuff, as well as pendants...

[mnoelker]

Yet another vote for the Cricket! Hotter than the Minor and the pinpoint flame is awesome. It will take you in a lot of different directions for a great price!

[Rimfeld]

I would also highly recommend the Cricket, concentrator, then you just need a propane regulator. Buy the supplies as you need them. I would not by a starters kit, too much you would not use. Buy a marver, use a old butter knife, use a razor blade in a X-acto handle. Buy some sheet metal to cover you work surface. You should still have enough to buy the fan.

Good Luck

[Lorraine Chandler]

I know how you are feeling...It took me months and months to come out of the studio set-up FOG.

Here are my order of importance(s) and why.

#1. Homeowners insurance policies will usually be cancelled if you torch in the home or in an attached garage. If you do not disclose your torch and you file a claim they will deny the claim. Check out all housing subdivisions CC & R's, codes and restrictions imposed by the city , county and state.

#2. If you set up in the home the propane/gas has to be brought into the home legally if going through a wall. The other option is a hose through the window attached to the tank outside. Hose though window works for a HH to start with...

#3. Ventilation....this is the most IMPORTANT part of a studio setup. For me and lot of others the Barley box and fan type of exhaust system works the best. This in itself is a huge undertaking. Tylenol, patience, tons of research, questions, drawings, plans, did I say tylenol???:-\"

This involves some math for the CFM's, a fan to produce the mathmatically figured cfm's needed, the box to contain the fumes to be more easily drawn out and away from lampworker, replacement air that can be brought in from the outside to the underside of the workbench which is most desirable for the heating and cooling of the room not to be disturbed. You do not have to do it this way... but bringing in freezing cold air in the winter is not fun...letting out your nice cooled A/C air in the summer is not fun either. Did I mention Tylenol???? HH torch is not fuel effiecient so lots of fumes from this torch along with radient heat.

#4. What are you drawn to right now? Just glass beads? Small sculptures such as fish beads/ Large tab beads? What glass have you chosen? I would suggest 104 to start. Inexpensive and easy to order by the single rod.
Lots of fun stuff to add to it..like frit, foil, enamels etc. And quite a few inexpensive torches that work it just fine. You really cannot go wrong with a Cricket or a Minor except that for a beginner you might have trouble controlling the heat for awhile, but practice makes perfect. HH torch will do 104 just fine.

#5 Oxygen concentrator or tanked oxy. One or the other. Again research for your needs. HH torch..no worries here.

#6. A kiln. Buy one with a controller if you can..If not you can make Marks stovepipe annealer. You will have to babysit it while you anneal but thats okay to start with. You can work your way into a kiln purchase. You may be able to locate another lampwork artist that will anneal for you for a small fee..Some people even ship thier beads out to be annealed.

#7. I wear a full face respirator ALL OF THE TIME. What you do to your lungs is your choice. Choose well. They are not easily replaced or repaired.

#8. Now the fun stuff, bench, stand or sit height or both? Chair...rolling or stationary, arm rests, didys or a shield? Tools...mandrel rack..I made mine out of a large block of wood drilled with little holes. Bead release, fiber blanket? vermiculite? or kiln? or both? Shaping tools? presses? What do you need/want to start off with? Fire extinguisher.. Good lighting. Safety big time especially if in the home!

#9 FINALLY....the glass WHEW!!!!
Did I say..HAVE FUN! Thats what it is all about. :p

I would look at all of the studio pictures threads and find one that looks like it would fit your area and has the things you like pictured in it and just start making notes.

The very best quick, easy and cheapest way is to get a HH kit, set up in a garage or out back on the porch and make beads for 6 months with a very basic set up, if you really love it then start your room set up. In the meantime you can do all of your research, see how much if any of the fumes bother you..etc.

Last but not least is find a class and take it. You will be amazed at how a beginner class will pull it all together for you. There is nothing as great as hands on training.

Lorraine