knight or Bethleham ?

[tuffydog]

I am torn between the Knight Bullet and the Bethlehem Barracuda. I want to do detailed small soft glass and medium sized boro pendents and medium sized marbles. Of course I prefer to pay the least amount, but want a good one. Thanks Tuffydog

[Cosmo]

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[joebirder]

GTT Cheetah.. Just came off of using a Bullet. loved the bullet, but I can get a tighter tiny flame for detail on a cheetah than I can with a Bullet.
The GTT takes some time to learn to use, but it well worth it's and less expensive than the Bullet... I know you didn't ask, thought I would throw that out there...
Joe

[bclogan]

What torch do you use now? I used to have a Piranha, so when I moved up, I was happier with the Barracuda since it was a "known" flame to me. Much smaller learning curve. And I did try them both.

It also depends on if you're buying new or used and what kinda deal you can find. I know if someone were to give me a GTT Phantom I'm jump at it... But I don't have the cash for it at the moment.

[Trey Cornette]

I have to say the Barracuda is my favorite torch for soft glass. I have worked with both torches and have used the Barracuda extensively for the past 5 years. The inner flame of the Barracuda is by far superior to the bullet. You can get a very soft laser tight flame that allows you to really control your stringer work. When going back and forth between the inner and outer fire there is no need for adjustment while on the bullet it seems like I would always have to adjust the flame every time I went from one flame to the other. The inner fire of the Bullet will not focus down nearly as tight making detail stringer work more difficult. The bullet is also weak in it base design. It is cast iron and will break easily. This has happened to many people and Knight does not consider this a design flaw and will only sell you a new base. I think they should replace it for free as it is an obvious flaw in the design that they are aware of. The valves of the bullet are a little strange as well and feel a little odd to me when I adjust them and I don't like how tall they are. This is probably done to help keep them from getting so hot. They still get hot .As far as heat from the torches. I think they are very close. The bullet may be a bit hotter. It does seem to be a harsher flame when raging it. I think the Barracuda is just kinder to the soft glass. In my opinion you get what you pay for and the couple of hundred extra you will pay for the Barracuda is worth it.

[Hayley]

Both are awesome torches when both center and outer fires are being used, especially for boro work. Based on your comment that you are interested in doing soda lime glass in addition to boro, I would recommend the Barracuda over the Knight Bullet for the center fire of the Cuda (the Piranha) is, in my experience, more superior to the center fire of the Bullet (the Little Dragon). Trey has just given you the run down on that above so I won't repeat what he said!

My own decision on getting the Barracuda had a lot of to do with the work of other lampworkers whose work I aspire to, who also use the Cuda. Lampworkers such as Kimberly Affleck, Trey Cornette and Brent (both his boro and soda lime glass work).

Here is an old thread that covers the same topic if you are interested:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76625

Hope this helps.

[Cosmo]

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[ArtcoInc]

Tuffydog: Have you had a chance to actually use both torches yourself? That would be my suggestion. It doesn't matter what anyone else things ... it's what feels right for your.

Cosmo: I have heard of the Knight bases breaking. I have to agree that it is a weak point.

Malcolm

[Trey Cornette]

I got my first Knight Bullet Burner from Ron Bearer Jr at Art Glass House. Got home opened the box and the torch was broken from the base. Went back up to see Ron with it and he said "Oh Yeah, We usually check them all before they leave the shop due to the high breakage" . Knight now ships them double boxed and much fewer of them are arriving broken to the dealers.

Lot's of broken Bullet burners out there and like I said they won't stand behind it and want to sell you a new base rather than replace a defective design

[Cosmo]

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[Hayley]

Chad - in the old thread about the same topic (link in my post above), you and Trey had already had this exact same conversation about the Knight Bullet bases breaking a year ago. Kimberly also stated that Frantz had a bullet that had a broken base in post #28.

[Trey Cornette]

The tab with a hole drilled through it that sticks out of the base is the weak point. The entire base is cast iron and that little thin tab will break rather than bend with any sharp blow such as dropping it. My BFA and MFA are in sculpture. I cast a lot of iron in those days. We would clean the sprews off our castings by striking them with a hammer. These were as much as 1.5 inches thick and broke easily. That little 1/4 inch thick tab is a totally wimpy attachment. Knight should redesign and go to a welded steel base.

[Trey Cornette]

Where do they break? This is honestly the first I've heard of any broken bases on any Knight torches.

Seriously man. We all know you don't like Bethlehem but at least remember what you have argued before. We have had this exact same exchange in a different thread a while back.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76625

By the way didn't you used to sell Bethlehem products back before they raised the prices and cut the profit margin for dealers?

[Cosmo]

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[Trey Cornette]

Bethlehem has excellent customer service. I learned the hard way about over tightening valves and had an O2 valve that over time was not seating properly. I sent the torch to Bethlehem and they replaced all 4 valves, cleaned and tuned the torch and had it back in my hands in 3 weeks with no charge what so ever. All Bethlehem torches carry a lifetime Warranty.

[Cosmo]

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[Trey Cornette]

Your relationship with Bethlehem as a SELLER of Bethlehem torches really does not reflect how they handle their END USER customer service.
I find them to treat customers with warranty issues Fast and Fairly.

I am well informed on the events that led to Bethlehem’s raising of prices, setting and enforcing suggested retail prices and the problems that occurred between Bethlehem and their Dealer network during the time period that you had your issues with Bethlehem. We do live in a capitalist society and while I do not necessarily agree with Bethlehem’s business practices everything they did was well within common business practice ethics.

I have nothing to gain through recommending any products. I do not sell or rep any products that I use or recommend. I only want the best for the students and others who seek my opinion.

Finished with this thread.
PEACE OUT !!!!

[Mr. Smiley]

My experience backs up everything Trey has said here... nothing against you Chad, but I used a Bullet for a while and it used far more oxy than it should have. Used more than my Mirage. I like the Bullet, but it does not compare to my Cuda or I would own one. The flame structure is less organized and it's just not as hot. I'm sorry you have such hard feelings for Bethlehem. I don't sell torches at all, haven't for years. I have hard personal feelings for a few companies, so I understand you being upset. I'm not saying you are basing your posts on anything personal either... but understand it might look that way. There's no need to argue this point, it's all opinion. Just post your opinions and move on. Nobody is right or wrong. I know it's really hard to walk away. I've fallen short several times in the past, but realize through those experiences that nothing was ever solved and I could have been doing something fun! ;)

[Cosmo]

Forget I said anything.

[Mr. Smiley]

Dude, nobody said your opinion doesn't count... there's just no reason to go back and forth again. ;)

[Cosmo]

Well, when every time you post your opinion you are told you're wrong for having that opinion, it gets old.

I've learned my lesson. I'll keep my mouth shut from here on out.

[Mr. Smiley]

There is no right or wrong man... and nobody said you were wrong. You came back and said Trey was wrong. He didn't challenge anything you said, but now it's gone and the thread makes very little sense. Nobody called you out and said you were wrong... didn't go down like that.

[tuffydog]

I thank all of you for your help. I have not used either torch, I am not near anyone who uses them. I did go through the history on the forum and should have not had all of you hash over what has already been said. Will be watching for one of them to come up in the Garage Sale. Thanks for everything

[G.L.McBead]

There is noway that I would do anything to my Bullet that would break the tab.
I have had mine for about 3 years,also no part of this torch gets hot exsept the flame.

Anyway if you are comeing up to Wa. any time soon you are welcome to try my Bullet.
G.