Copper Etching with Salt [Archive]

Beadbug

2009-02-03, 7:04pm

I learned how to do the salt etch at our fellow LEr, Cristabman house and it's so nice not to worry about the chemicals since I am a klutz.

Disclamer... I am in no way a pro at this just sharing what worked for me, use this tutorial at your own risk :).

Setup is easy and cheap,

Kosher salt and water I used hot tap water but was told distilled is the way to go. Just saturate the hot water with as much salt as it will hold.

I used a square glass nut jar

Heavy copper wire for leads from the power source to the jar it looks like 18 gauge that I used

Copper I have just used the stuff from Hobby Lobby

Fish tank bubbler from Wal-Mart

Now for the scary part, I did this and am no way telling you it is safe but it worked. I cut the end off of an AC to DC charger, this is what it says on the little black box that plugs into the wall,

Class 2 Transformer
Input 120V ac 60Hz 10W
Output 12V DC 500mA

Strip about an inch of the wire lead and use electrical tape to attach it to 4" heavy copper wire leads. Make an s shape out of the wire so it hangs over the edge of the glass jar and you can hang the copper from the bottom section of the S that will hang in your salt solution. These will need to be replaced as they get etched through.

Use your resist of choice to draw your design onto your copper, I used sharpie but it didn’t hold on as long as I would have liked.

Hang 2 pieces of copper in the jar sitting directly across from each other, the side that bubbles gets left in the side that didn't gets the copper you want to etch. If someone can help a girl out is the side that bubbles the positive or negative side?

The electrical part can also come from a battery if you don't want to walk on the wild side.

I left the copper in the mix for 20 min but would leave in longer if my sharpie would have held.
This is smaller than the photo's turned out maybe 2.5"x3.5"
154984
154985
The brighter color is where the sharpie was and is the higher part of the design.

KEW

2009-02-03, 7:05pm

Lovely!

encantado

2009-02-03, 7:19pm

Very pretty!

playswithfire104

2009-02-03, 8:10pm

Oh man my brain is spinning from all of these new ideas! Thanks!

missbatteries

2009-02-04, 7:01am

Tracy,
Could you post a picture of your setup?
-Elaine

shawnette

2009-02-04, 7:10am

Tracy,
Could you post a picture of your setup?
-Elaine

Lol! I was just about to say the same thing. I'm a little unsure of this part, so a photo would help:

Strip about an inch of the wire lead and use electrical tape to attach it to 4" heavy copper wire leads. Make an s shape out of the wire so it hangs over the edge of the glass jar and you can hang the copper from the bottom section of the S that will hang in your salt solution. These will need to be replaced as they get etched through.

Thanks!!!

beadnphule

2009-02-04, 7:41am

This is interesting but I don't understand where you used the fish tank bubbler?

kimberly

2009-02-04, 7:45am

To keep the salt solution in suspension - suspended in the salt solution.

Rose Leslie

2009-02-04, 7:56am

Couldn't you use one of the electro forming kits for this?

Melodie

2009-02-04, 9:01am

Thanks so much for posting this, I can't wait to try this method!!!

Fantastic piece, I love it. :love:

I wonder if the PNP would work with this also? When doing the edges of my chemically etched caps I found that fingernail polish worked much better than the marker. I was getting iffy coverage with the marker also, it didn't seem to hold up with a deep etch.

Art of Hand

2009-02-04, 12:07pm

Tracey, it really sounds interesting, but I an a bit challanged, and a picture of your setup would really help me to translate words into a understandable setup that I could safely attempt!
thanks for your trouble to share this! it is way cool!

Diane (clarus)

2009-02-04, 2:43pm

Melodie, this is the same technique as in the Nov. 2008 Art Jewelry Magazine, where they used the PNP paper. Go for it!

-Diane

Diane (clarus)

2009-02-04, 2:44pm

Rose Leslie, yes, you can use the electroforming rectifier. Tink said to simply reverse the wires and you're all set. All this talk about it has me getting my stuff together to try it myself. Thanks for the inspiration, everyone!

-Diane

lavendar420

2009-02-04, 5:38pm

I'm intrigued about using this as an electroforming setup... I'm kind of non-electrical myself though.

Beadbug

2009-02-04, 5:43pm

PnP paper would be wonderful. How fine do those finger nail polish detail pens come? They may be just perfect for this type of thing.

The fish tank bubbler just goes into the salt water to keep it churned up.

An electro forming kit would be wonderful for this but most don't have one. I have one but it is at a friends house.

Christa just told me that your copper plates should be close to the same size and works well if you have them close together in the solution. Mine where not on my first try and it worked ok, but maybe you will get a deeper etch quicker if they are so it's worth a try.

155442
This is the salt water after just one etch YUCK but it isn't dead yet so I will use it again. You can pour it out into something else and let the yuck settle out then pour the good stuff back in.

missbatteries

2009-02-08, 2:22pm

Thanks for the visual Tracy--it really helped!
-Elaine

bellavistaglass

2009-02-08, 9:28pm

Yep a picture does speak volumes, Have had some problems visualizing the setup...Thanks!
Patricia

Anne Ricketts

2009-02-09, 5:05am

That looks pretty cool! Fairly inexpensive also I would think! Thanks for showing this! Wonder what a peice looks like after some time with oxidation?

saxon

2009-02-09, 10:48am

This is the Cutest Tutorial I have ever seen.
I cant wait to try.
Thanks
Sandra/Saxon

Afterdark

2009-02-09, 12:26pm

Tracy- you rock- thanks for sharing! Now lets see what you do with the pretty copper!!

Beadbug

2009-02-09, 1:10pm

I have been sick but go some caps cut out before this hit. My copper and silver tube just came from from ginkodesigns.etsy.com it looks like very nice stuff and I can't wait till my head quits pounding so I can start some coring.

This piece did get treated with a patina but I took steel wool to it and it knocked the sharp edges off and now it just isn't as nice of a piece. I won't do that again!

Chau Nguyen T

2009-02-09, 5:19pm

I can do the Sharpie part but set up is.... way out of my thinking. Even with your picture to help me to see it clearer; please, tell me
What is this power source? And using this ps you don't need to use the battery. How powerful 6V battery could be? Do i have to plug this ps in to electrical outlet to have a source of energy?
The fish tank bubbler will connect directly in to the salt water?
Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

Beadbug

2009-02-09, 6:58pm

Here are power sources I have read about using, the only one I have used is described above and plugged directly into the wall.

Size D Battery
Car Battery
Trickle style car battery charger
Electroforming Kit

If anyone has used any of the above or something else could you please let us know what was used and how well it worked?

The fish tank bubbler does go directly into the salt water to keep it churned up so that your piece etches evenly.

Chau Nguyen T

2009-02-10, 4:54pm

Tracy, where do i find this power source? I stopped at WalMart to pick-up some dog foods and i found out that i had this fish tank bubbler when we used to have fish.
So far,I know that one end of the power source has to plug in to the electric outlet for energy. As in the picture,i saw that one end of the 18gauge copper wire connects the discs that goes into the salt bath, the other end poke/stick into the power source box.
I know how to work on the end of the copper wires to go into the salt bath to etch. But I am lost at the other end that connect to the power box.
You said "strip about an inch of the wire lead and use electrical tape to attach it to 4" heavy copper lead", does it mean that you have to open the back of the power source box to pull out the wire inside the box out to tape it with the 18gauge wire to extend it longer to reach the salt water bath.
Sorry i have no experience with electricity and so afraid of shock. You made it look so simple and easy but when it comes to me it looks like a big mountain. I don't have anyone around here to ask about it. Please help me to scale it. Thanks in advance.

Beadbug

2009-02-10, 6:11pm

Looking at my photo you can see the wire coming out of the bottom of the plug this is the same wire that is hooked to each copper lead going into the glass container.

playswithfire104

2009-02-10, 6:34pm

Can you use sea salt? Without iodide?

And if anyone hass tried this with a e-forming kit can you give any details? I have an e-forming kit but I still don't quite get exactly what Ineed to do.

Beadbug

2009-02-11, 5:19pm

Nancy, I believe it does matter what kind of salt it is but don't think it would hurt to give the sea salt since it is in a pure form.

From what I understand with the e kit you just put the piece you want to etch on the opposite side you would put your e-formed item on.

Chau Nguyen T

2009-02-11, 6:11pm

Good. I saw that connection. So, i don't have to dismantle the box. There's a hole there for me to poke the copper wire in. That's perfect.
Now, tell me where did you buy that transfomer. At the Radio Shack or Walmart? I got most of the materials already but that power source, i try to find it this week end so i can try. With your instructions i think i can do it.
Thanks in advance. If i can find that transformer i'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again.

Beadbug

2009-02-12, 6:58pm

I didn't purchase this transformer just used one that was left over from another item like a phone or something. I keep all the plugs to things when they break because you never know what their next use might be. I guess you could go purchase on at Radio Shack but it seems silly when things are always breaking that take this sort of cord. I don't know where you think you are STICKING the copper wire into??? You need to go back and read the directions again. The wire is attached to the ends of the cord.

Rose Leslie

2009-02-13, 7:43pm

So where do you get the rectifyer? I want to try this only not with the electroforming kit. Yes I have to be anal.

Beadbug

2009-02-14, 9:06pm

You will have to research that one, I purchased a kit from Tink for electroforming but it being used by a friend right now.

Melinda Willis

2009-02-14, 10:08pm

Rose,
This is where I got mine. It's exactly the same as the one's in the kits.

http://www.radios4you.com/dcpowersupply-TP1803d.html

You don't need the test lead cable kit that is shown though. You can get just simple leads at radio shack.

Dread

2009-02-17, 12:54pm

Nice job and I have been playing with the messy PCB etch on my copper beads

I have a dc unit I got for niobium from Caswell - about same prices as listing in one of the responses above

but....
1. what is the output of the transformer you have - I like the simplicity of it
2. Do you put tape (or resist of some type ) on the back of the piece you are etching so the back does not start to etch as well and thin the piece out

I like that piece you did - sand it a bit and then enamel it with clear flux

Kevan

2009-02-17, 1:07pm

Interesting!

The acid stuff really isn't all that scary though. It's less scary to me than the electricity. lol

I did acid etching for years. Piece of cake.

prairieson

2009-02-17, 1:24pm

So where do you get the rectifyer? I want to try this only not with the electroforming kit. Yes I have to be anal.

Rose, you can use your electroforming rectifier, no problem. The setup is just like you're elecrtoforming, but the leads are reversed and you use salt water instead of the blue stuff.

You can get resullts like this...

99468

This is the etched cover of my "Owl Box". Rather than use PNP, I used a technique using magazine paper and a laser printer to create the etch. If anyone's interested I'll share the technique with more detail.

prairieson

2009-02-17, 1:32pm

Deborah, isn't the voltage output for niobium work really high?

For the etching 15 volts and 3 amps is plenty.

papimom

2009-02-18, 10:45am

prairieson

2009-02-18, 1:47pm

A little somethig else to tweak your brains... brass etches the same way.

squid

2009-02-18, 5:29pm

Rose, you can use your electroforming rectifier, no problem. The setup is just like you're elecrtoforming, but the leads are reversed and you use salt water instead of the blue stuff.

You can get resullts like this...

99468

This is the etched cover of my "Owl Box". Rather than use PNP, I used a technique using magazine paper and a laser printer to create the etch. If anyone's interested I'll share the technique with more detail.

Yes, please! We would love the details :)

Beadbug

2009-02-18, 7:38pm

More details please John.

I would have to suggest just purchasing a rectifier if you are truly going to do etching. It was much easier and I have burned up my first plug already.

prairieson

2009-02-19, 6:40am

This will only work with a laser printer, not an inkjet or dye transfer printer.

I set up my image and print it out on a glossy magazine page. It doesn't matter whether the magazine page has any print on it or not, only the image you print will transfer. When the image is printed, I place it face down on the metal to be etched. Make sure the metal is very clean and dry. I usually polish the metal with 0000 steel wool and the clean it off with acetone.

Then take a clothes iron set on cotton (no steam, don't ask me how I know, heheh) and begin pressing the image onto the metal, almost as though I were embossing with the iron. Just keep working the iron across the paper, for a 3"x4" image it usually take 5 minutes or so. You'll begin to "see" where the toner is sticking to the metal and you should be able to see where any bubbles are and work them out with the iron. The paper will appear to be stuck to the metal... don't panic, it should do that.

Once you're satisfied with the contact let the metal cool. Then put the metal in a bath of hot water (tapwater hot is fine, no need to boil or anything). Let it soak for 15 minutes or so. Then gently peel the paper away. It will take a couple of soakings and peelings to get most of the paper off. At that point soak again and lightly rub the design with your fingers to get the rest of the paper off and completely expose the design... you'll understand what I mean when you get to that point.

You can then use a Sharpie to touch any spots that lifted off and proceed to etch.

If you don't like the results, you can use steel wool under running water to remove the toner from the metal. I had to do that 3 or 4 times before I was comfortable with my results.

Kim V

2009-02-22, 5:21pm

I spent yesterday and today playing with this. First I tried the magazine paper...to be honest, I got frustrated. I'm sure it was user error. But I had a really hard time getting the magazine paper off without ruining the toner/resist. I got up this morning determined to conquer this...but this time I used the PNP paper. Much much easier for me. Here's a couple (two of the last ones that I did....after figuring out I needed to set the rectifier lower and go slow :-))

157465 157466

Beadbug

2009-02-24, 4:32pm

prairieson

2009-02-25, 5:49am

So today a bunch of us Michigan folks got together and tried to use my electroforming kit from Tink and couldn't get it to work. Can anyone tell me what the dials should be set at to make it work right?

We did get it to electroform beautifuly but went back to the old charger idea to etch.

It should be a matter of reversing the leads and adjusting the dials as with electroforming, voltage all the way up and current off. Then turn the current up until you see bubbling. It will need to be set much higher than with e-forming though, perhaps even maxed out. The only other tip I can think of offhand is to make sure the salt water is very concentrated, it's what makes the current flow.

Simply Us

2009-02-25, 6:24am

Tracy after I got home I etched using a 6 volt lantern battery. It worked fine. It is slower than a power source but I'm not shorting anything out either. I'm going to try the electroforming power source later today and see if I can get it to work.

Simply Us

2009-02-25, 6:31am

It should be a matter of reversing the leads and adjusting the dials as with electroforming, voltage all the way up and current off. Then turn the current up until you see bubbling. It will need to be set much higher than with e-forming though, perhaps even maxed out. The only other tip I can think of offhand is to make sure the salt water is very concentrated, it's what makes the current flow.
It kept clicking on/off, on/off and the current wouldn't stay steady. But we did have a bubbler going to circulate the salt water. I was afraid we would short out the power supply. And maybe we needed more concentrated salt water.

prairieson

2009-02-25, 7:02am

It kept clicking on/off, on/off and the current wouldn't stay steady. But we did have a bubbler going to circulate the salt water. I was afraid we would short out the power supply. And maybe we needed more concentrated salt water.

If you're using the beaker from the kit or a similarly sized container, the bubbler really isn't necessary. The agitation from the etching action is plenty.

It sounds like there was a fault in the circuit somewhere, most likely a boogered up connection. Or it could need more salt. I use about 3/4 C of kosher salt per pint of water. Iodized salt really doesn't work well at all.

papimom

2009-02-25, 7:19am

I'm loving this. Spent days drawing on copper plates and then running them through the etching bath. I am amazed by the level of fine line that we can achieve with this process.
My dh thinks I've gone over the top, but he can't argue with the results and "it is just salt, honey."
Joan

Simply Us

2009-02-25, 11:50am

John you were right! I tried it at home with really saturated salt water, better connections and no bubbler and it worked. The power supply just stayed on. The voltage did tend to go way up and then back down for no reason.

KristiB

2009-02-25, 12:41pm

Just wanted to add that I used the electroforming rectifier with the Kosher salt and it etched the copper beautifully.
I do have a question about disposal. I have this disgusting sludge that builds up and I want to know what everyone does about disposing of this sludge. I'm on a septic system and not willing to add this to the tank. Filter the sludge and trash it?
Joan

Joan,

The used solution has a very high concentration of copper salts. You do not want to pour this down the drain, that goes for everyone, not just people on a septic system.

How to dispose of this solution is governed by your local hazardous-waste regulations in your state or county. Because of the small amount I have had them allow disposal for free or once I paid $3.00 to dispose of the spent jar of solution.

To me it's worth it and it saves the environment and my pipes.

This subject seems to get ignored here and other places, but the disposal of the waste from etching should be handled properly. Thank you for checking!!

Is everyone aware that step by step instructions for this process including the use of PnP paper has been published in the november 2008 Art Jewelry Magazine??

It's entitled D Battery + Saltwater Cheap acid-free etching.

Here is a link to how to use the pnp paper
http://cs.artjewelrymag.com/artcs/blogs/artjewelry/2008/09/30/a-tip-from-our-current-issue-use-a-stove-thermometer-to-set-your-iron-when-using-pnp-paper.aspx

Caio
Kristi

Beadbug

2009-02-25, 6:27pm

It must have been the connection because I had so much kosher salt in the water that it wouldn't hold anymore and some was still settling to the bottom of the pitcher I was mixing it in. I went back to the old cell charger and all worked great.

I know that if you reverse the leads that your design will bubble off in just a few seconds. It was terrible to watch a half hours worth of doodle fly away in seconds so that wasn't the problem.

I will try the electroforming power source again.

flamemoth

2009-02-25, 6:37pm

So the positive goes on the one you're trying to etch? is that correct?

flameonglass

2009-02-25, 7:48pm

OMG. I am seriously infatuated with this idea. There goes the rest of my spending money for a while!

Beadbug

2009-02-26, 4:24pm

Yes positive on etched piece.

This doesn't cost much at all just some kosher salt, some sort of resist, any permanent ink works, some copper it runs around 4 bucks a square. It looks like you already have a power source so go for it.

Bev.B

2009-02-26, 11:03pm

Thank you Prairieson
I have had success today. Yesterday I tired different prints on copper and brass and they just bubbled off in the salt solution in front of my eyes.

Today I tired your glossy magazine paper through the photocopier and after ironing then soaking realised it was much tougher.

I decided to forget about the salt solution and set up for electroplating as usual and just put the pieces (piece to be etched = bead) on the opposite sides to normal. My volts were in the 3.?? and amps 2.??. then I forgot it for 40 minutes. Here it is straight out of the bath.
Will post again when I have cleaned and polished.
Bev.B

Bev.B

2009-02-26, 11:55pm

Here is the piece. Cleaned off with solvent. Dipped in Liver of Sulphur and then buffed.
I much prefer to use my normal electroforming solution as it is only copper to copper in the opposite direction. Taking from one and coating the other.
Bev.B

papimom

2009-02-27, 4:54pm

Lovely piece Bev.
Some friends and I were talking today about using the method you just described. Good to know it will work.
Thanks.
Joan

Beadbug

2009-02-27, 7:12pm

That is beautiful Bev.

Did you actualy electroform something while etching?

Bev.B

2009-02-28, 1:17am

Hi Tracy
No, I was having absolutely no luck with the salt method, so I just set up for my normal electroforming and put the pieces on the opposite sides to mormal electroforming.
My piece of copper I was using for beads has now grown lumps down one side. I upped the voltage and the amps. I usually run at 0.3 amps or less and set it at 2.??. It seemed to change. I had the etching hanging too far in the water and my copper wire also etched away and I was alerted by the plop into the water as they broke. Took about 40 minutes (I think).
Well worth a play if you have the equipment. Was really easy. Give it a go.
Bev.B

Beadbug

2009-02-28, 11:23am

I am going into the studio right now to try this. When you electroform that copper will be used up again off your hanging copper so it will be like recycling and the copper won't end up at the bottom of the glass jar but ready to use again. Great thinking.

Simply Us

2009-03-01, 10:57am

I made some bead caps with the etched copper. I really like how they look.
158298
158299

Chau Nguyen T

2009-03-01, 12:08pm

Tracy, you said 'I didn't purchase this transformer just used one that was left over from another item like a phone or something.'

I digged into the throw-away box and found one old phone that has a BadaptorB that we can plug into the electrial outlet for power.

This adaptor is the power source you had on your set up, correct? If yes, then i have found the righ thing.

I've been collected materials for this process and the power source is the last thing i was looking. I'll wait to hear from you before start doing the etching. I'm so excited and hopeful. I can't wait to see how things turn out. It's so wonderful that you can do something so beautiful at no cost.

Thank you very much for showing me how to do this.

Beadbug

2009-03-02, 9:50am

As long as the adapter says AC to DC power it will work you need direct power. My friends have had very good look with one of those large lantern batterys.

papimom

2009-03-04, 5:47am

Sandra,
Just wanted to tell you how lovely your caps are. Yes, your beads are also lovely and the caps add a wonderful touch to them.
Joan

Simply Us

2009-03-04, 4:32pm

Thanks Joan. They do become addicting between the etching, coring and then making more beads so I can do it again!

TinaJ

2009-09-17, 3:19pm

While compiling info on this process so I can print it out and read it all together I found a link to download a free copy (free until 9/25/09) of a tutorial from Art Jewelry magazine that covers a lot of this information, with great pictures.
http://cs.artjewelrymag.com/artcs/blogs/artjewelry/2009/09/08/solder-inlay-technique-coming-in-january-2010-issue-of-art-jewelry-magazine.aspx
Hope this helps.
Tina

thl

2010-01-31, 11:48am

Thank you so much Tracy. I'm giving this a go today.

woodywood143

2010-02-01, 6:20am

Thank you very much, you have just opened a new world for me, I have just started working with copper and this is fantastic.
Thanks again

Pete

getdul981

2010-02-01, 8:03am

I just found this too. I'm thinking that you don't need to buy a bubbler, just hook up your oxycon (if you use one) with a piece of tubing and feed that into the solution. Probably would be a good idea to turn the volume way down though.

Greg

thl

2010-02-01, 7:05pm

2 days of testing and here's my notes...
I wouldn't hook it up to a benchtop electroform souce without somesort of load. I fried a wall transformer right off. The transformer didn't have any sort of current limiting so it just got too hot and broke.

*** Feel free to skip this paragraph - I'm a geek*** To prevent this, add some sort of resistance in series with your transformer. The resistive load will set the amperage when the solution goes to very low resistance thus acting as a short circuit. To set the load, look at the transformer take the voltage and divide it by the current (rated, or what you are looking for whichever is less). The answer will be the number of ohms resistance that you would use. For instance, my second set up was a 9V 400mA transformer. Resistance in series with load would need to be (9/0.4 = 22.5 ohms) The wattage of the resistance would need to be rated atleast 9*0.4 = 3.6 Watts. So you could use a 4 watt DC bulb rather than a resistor to accomplish the same thing. I didn't have bulbs or holder so I went with the resistance set up. Adding resistance puts a demand on the transformer meaning that even when the solution goes to very little resistance, you won't have infinite current trying to go through, just what the resistor is using will be going through the transformer.

I'm now using a 12V/6V battery charger (small one (1.5Amps) that also maintains the charge in a battery ). To limit the current, I hooked up a 10 ohm 10 Watt power resistor in series (the resistor will get hot so don't lay it on plastic - don't ask me how I know). If you don't have a resistor or somesort of load, the battery charger thinks there's something wrong, trouble light comes on and it shuts down the charging side. The resistor seems to satisfy it's need to believe there's an actual battery there.

I haven't done the bubbler thing as this was supposed to be a zero$ activity. I did break down and spend $2 for the power resistor which was well worth it.

Still experimenting with the resist to see what works for a good deep etch, but I'm finally making progress.

thl

2010-02-01, 7:07pm

Oh shoot, and it preferentially etches the alligator clips so if you use them, keep them out of the solution.

theglasszone

2010-02-01, 7:12pm

...it preferentially etches the alligator clips so if you use them, keep them out of the solution.

Ahem...for what? :lol:

De

woodywood143

2010-02-02, 5:15am

Tami can you post a pic of how you set this up? I plan on trying this today with a 6volt lantern battery and some copper flashing that I have on hand before i spend any money at all << (cheapo) lol. also is Etching and Plating the same theory? Could I plate tin with copper using this system?

Pete

thl

2010-02-02, 8:13am

I'll preface this with I'm really bad with getting pictures to post here... So let me try. It's a lot like the set up we saw earlier.
http://ssprockets.com/saltetch/etchset.jpg
The green stuff on the resistor was cause it was laying on the plastic when I started. :shock:

http://ssprockets.com/saltetch/batcharg.jpg

http://ssprockets.com/saltetch/etch.jpg

I'm still dinking withit. I'm still working on repeatability and getting a good depth. :-? I think I need a deeper bath and quite possibly the bubbler to keep the crud off the piece I'm etching.

The saltwater etching is based on the galvanic corrosion type theory. For example, when you put two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte they will form a galvanic cell (battery). There will be a small electrical potential between them and this causes one of the metals to corrode/pit. In the etch bath, we're using similar metals and providing the potential with the battery thus accelerating the corrosion.

Plating is the process of getting the metal atoms into a solution, then depositing them on another piece. The electricity keeps the reaction going and directs which piece is plated. I'm not sure if you could do it without using an acid to get the metal into a solution. The easiest plating seems to be using a supper pickle it's rather thin, but you get the copper color. It seems there might be a thread here that talks about that. Seems I got my pickle recipe from a thread here.

woodywood143

2010-02-02, 2:39pm

thats cool looking, its been raining here all day Im going to try tommorrow thanks for the info.

Pete

Beadbug

2010-02-02, 2:46pm

For plating you need to go with the electro plating system like Tink sells. It looks like ya got the etching down :)

thl

2010-02-02, 6:57pm

:oops:Doh! the piece is not supposed to bubble. If at first, go back and read Tracy's directions... Perhaps now the reist will stay on. <beating head upon counter>

Hey, can you use an electroform/plating type power supply to do this? If so, does anyone have a recommendation on voltage and current settings?

Beadbug

2010-02-02, 7:27pm

I hear you can but I have not been able to make it work so the battery is the best.

thl

2010-02-03, 2:11pm

Yeah, I'd rather burn out a wall wart transformer than a nice power supply...
It finally worked for me. So I'll go ahead and post a couple of pictures. I even used the magazine paper laser toner transfer routine. I think I went a little too long in the bath but...
http://ssprockets.com/saltetch/etch1.jpg
scrolls and heart were drawn on with a sharpie

http://ssprockets.com/saltetch/etch2.jpg
Sorry for the orientation:smile:

Beadbug

2010-02-05, 7:49pm

Those are great

cakelady

2010-02-28, 7:16pm

Wow We tried it tonight. It worked I was amazed. My husband used a battery charger I think its a little much. In a short time the 18 gauage wire burned into, and the piece dropped to the bottom. Any idea's are welcome.

Cristabman

2010-03-01, 6:07am

Kim - my solution is to keep the top edge and wire out of the salt solution. A lantern battery seems to be a cheap and good solution - be careful with the battery charger, I have burned up several power supplies. Also, if you over etch, you can make holes in the copper - this can be really neat.

nickandryan

2010-03-01, 7:17am

I am so glad the thread has been revisited. This is very interesting!

Has anyone tried this method with bead cap blanks (like the ones you can get from Ginko)- and how do you attach the wire to them? Do you etch them each seperately?

I have "acid" etchant for copper and bras, but I am interested in etching sterling silver with this method. Just wondering if anyone else has tried sterling bead caps. Thanks, Laura

cakelady

2010-03-01, 5:54pm

I love this copper etching, fun and exciting. We also played with it last night both times was with a battery charger. Tonight we used a very fine point sharpie, and turned the battery charger down. Not sure which made it work better , the sharpie or the battery changer being turned down or both. I really like the way this turned out. Now what should I do with it? 196083

thl

2010-03-07, 12:49pm

Laura, I tried an altoid tin, brass and sterling silver. The brass and the tin etched, but the silver did not it just discolored slightly.

I got around to trying the pnp paper and it worked real well with the salt bath etch. I did not try the photographic paper laser toner etch. After spending 30 minutes unjamming the copier, then another 30 minutes ungumming the rollers on the laser printer I figured it might be a bad idea. May have been just my paper.

jezusjonz

2010-06-15, 11:21pm

I hope you dont mind me jumping in here but I've been etching with saltwater for about 6 to 8 months now. I do reproduction headbadges for bicycles in brass or copper. After reading through this thread I see a lot of different things being used.
http://www.pulsarprofx.com/PCBfx/main_site/pages/products/index.html
good place to nose around for a different way and much easier way to transfer your image to metal.
Power supplies. I started with two D cell batteries and a battery holder from Radio Shack and some alligator clips. Worked great. I since made one from a old cell phone charger and it works just fine also.
The salt water bath...Ive only used regular table salt one tablespoon to one cup of hot water to dissolve it. Works just fine.
Normal etching for me is about 2 to 4 hours depending on the metal to remove. I also take the piece out every 30 minutes or so and brush off the dark deposits to help reduce etching time.
I know its rather short on long lengthy explanations but I think you can get plenty of that on the web.
But heres a few of my badges Ive done.

FishBulb

2010-06-16, 6:30am

Hey, thanks JezuzJonz! Great reference and great work!

Beadbug

2010-06-25, 6:06pm

jezusjonz

2010-07-18, 4:21am

JezuzJonz, What beautiful work, thanks for the great information I hope you stick around for more posts and share with this wonderful group of people. I am sure your product is wonderful but this thread is not about coming in for self promotion and then just dropping out.

I didnt post for any promotion if you spend anytime researching on the web about etching you find out that there is way to much info and what works for one doesnt actually work for another.
I spent many a nights and days with an iron and papers of every type trying to transfer an image and then one day I happened along the web site I posted and thats when things changed and I started making progress to the point I am at now.
Each step of etching is a task in itself that you have to get past before you start progressing. Preping the metal transfering the image, etching cleaning and finishing to handling the waste.
What metals you want to work with to the power source for etching to the containers that you want to etch in. Yes even the container makes a difference on your piece.
But I stopped in because I have a little bit of knowledge from my last year of researching and expermenting and now working in a consumer market. I've completed about 35 or more pieces since May and was mainly trying to pass along some useful information is all.
Terry

BarbR

2010-07-18, 5:43am

WOW!

Those are great badges Terry! =D>
You've done a fabulous job, the etching is so clear and defined. Thank you for taking the time to research how it's done well, and for generously sharing that info! That's the wonderful spirit of sharing that many folks on this site are well-loved for.

fullajoyy

2010-07-19, 11:26am

jezusjonz

2010-07-19, 1:21pm

Terry,
I have really appreciated your input. I look forward to trying the salt etching technique.

I saw another etching set up recently that I want to try as well as salt. Whereas before I let my copper soak in the ferric chloride etchant. This technique uses a sponge and sort of scrubs it off. It seemed quite fast. Here's the link: http://www.limed.se/part-2-how-to-make-a-double-sided-pcb-using-the-toner-transfer-method/

I also recommend looking at all the related videos. They were great!

Thanks everyone for all the input that educates us crafters.

Be careful doing that one its a mess and if you get the slightest hole in your glove (and you wont know till its to late) your fingers are going to look like you smoke 6 packs of cigs a day. I tried that process once...if your going for any kind of a deep etch its not the way to go. With Ferric chloride which I use sometimes its easier and safer much safer to just tape off your piece pour just enough of the ferric to cover the piece lay it face up in the bowl and just light brush over it with either a feather or paint brush about every 10 to 15 minutes. Sometimes I'll just rock the bowl back and forth real slow to clear off the metal thats etching away.
Remember that the people making PCB boards are not etching very deep and most are using a fiberglass backed copper.
Ferric is the safest to me of the acids. The smell is very slight and I've gotten it on my skin and it only turned it yellow even trying to wash it off asap. It does make a nice finish to your piece compared to salt water I just didnt like having the chemicals around. The word salt doesnt scare me as bad as acid... :)

LauraLou

2010-08-02, 9:33am

jezusjonz

2010-08-02, 10:13am

I'm wondering...
if we used the toner transfer paper sherri haab uses, with the etching method from tracy's tutorial, would it work?

link for the etch laser paper: http://www.sherrihaab-shop.com/etching-supplies/e3-etch-laser-paper.html

I cant really tell what her paper is. I get 10 sheets from PulsarProFx.com at 14.95 and it comes right off in water after you transfer the image to the metal. No fighting to remove the paper from the toner and metal. Which I have seen on many sites dealing with etching is always a problem. When I use my transfer paper I print the image once through my laser printer on regular paper then I cut a piece of transfer paper about 1/2 bigger all around and tape it over the image I just printed then feed it back through the printer and print the image again. Saves on waste and I only use what I need when I need it.
But I do about the same method as Tracys I just dont use a bubbler or any special salt or water and it works just fine.
Terry

Frit Diva

2010-08-02, 10:23am

Thanks all who have posted here..... I really appreciate the different approaches and link!

Terry, your bike head badges sent me on a little nostalgia trip about my first bicycle, an old green fat-tire Huffy from the 1950's. I bought it with my allowance of about 50 cents a week, took forever to save up 8 dollars, and my Dad relented and pitched in the rest! I think we paid $18 dollars for that bike, it was already well used when I got it.

Jo

LauraLou

2010-08-02, 3:40pm

I cant really tell what her paper is. I get 10 sheets from PulsarProFx.com at 14.95 and it comes right off in water after you transfer the image to the metal. No fighting to remove the paper from the toner and metal. Which I have seen on many sites dealing with etching is always a problem. When I use my transfer paper I print the image once through my laser printer on regular paper then I cut a piece of transfer paper about 1/2 bigger all around and tape it over the image I just printed then feed it back through the printer and print the image again. Saves on waste and I only use what I need when I need it.
But I do about the same method as Tracys I just dont use a bubbler or any special salt or water and it works just fine.
Terry

Thanks Terry! If I took the time to read all the posts I wouldn't have had to ask the question. thanks for the info, your etchings are beautiful, by the way!

Laura B

2010-08-06, 10:17am

I wanted to try/learn the technique of etching on metal, but I'm kind of skeered of electricity so I was looking into using the chemicals.

Ugh... I think I'm more afraid of the chemicals than I am of eletricity.

So... I'm going to re-read this thread (for the third time) and try this battery-salt method (hopefully this weekend).

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the helpful info.

carrieb

2010-08-09, 8:16am

This is a pretty cool tutorial. Thank you Tracy for sharing it. We had a rainy day all day long so I decided it was my "Mad Scientist Sunday". It was kind of scary, playing around with electricity and all and fun too when I finally could see it was working.

I fooled around with it all day without much luck. We finally figured out it was because I had the polarity wrong! Tracy had asked this question in the original post: If someone can help a girl out is the side that bubbles the positive or negative side?

The side with the bubbler is the negative side. Once everything was set up properly it worked like a charm!!!!! :grin:

Cristabman

2010-08-10, 9:27am

The positive side goes to the picture. The negative side goes to nothing. Positive=picture, negative=nothing. Easiest way to remember I could think of. Bubbles should be on positive side.

I'd worry way more about the chemicals than the electricity. The original article used a D cell battery - and it works well. Lantern battery gets the job done a little quicker - get the cheap ones, they last just as well as the bunny ones.

When you are done - color with alcohol inks (like for stamping) or put on a patina and then use prismacolor pencils - the soft ones. Way cool.

LauraLou

2010-08-12, 6:40pm

tried this with a skinny sharpie. when i took it out to see how the etching was going, the marker slid right off. tried it with fat sharpie and after 20 mins I took it out and stopped because the power source was getting hot. I want to order some of those papers that Terry was talking about. terry, do i need the laminater thingy too or just the pack of papers?

thl

2010-08-12, 8:45pm

LauraLou, that sort of sounds like my first tries. The bubbles just blew the sharpie off my piece I was trying to etch. The piece to be etched should not bubble. The bubbles should come from the other piece (junk copper). It's a polarity thing - and while I should be able to tell you positive or negative, I check for bubbles instead.

AdiaB

2010-08-13, 1:06am

LauraLou, when I've used ink as a resist, heat-setting the ink (with a blowdryer :lol: since I didn't have a heat gun) made a big difference in terms of staying power. Also have had the best luck with the red Staedtler Lumocolor pens that are recommended in the protocol Karen Christians wrote (http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/photocopy_transfer_etch.htm)
and with StazOn ink. This is with a chemical bath though, over several hours.

LauraLou

2010-08-13, 5:02am

Tami, the piece that etched did not bubble, when i took it out, the ink slid right off.

AdiaB, I did read somewhere about using StazOn ink. I'll have to try that next time. I need more salt though. I bought a cool stamp to try with the ink.... thought I had StazOn, but don't. guess another trip to michaels and the grocery store are in order!

debkauz

2010-08-13, 9:30am

"Learn how to etch base metals by electrically supercharging saltwater in this all-levels tutorial. This project appeared in the November 2008 issue of Art Jewelry."

This is a great article with lots of pics of the set up.

LauraLou

2010-08-13, 9:52am

thl

2010-08-13, 10:50am

Hmmmm, sharpie sliding off... Gosh, it seems to work for me. I just let it dry. Could there be oil or something on your metal?

LauraLou

2010-08-13, 11:27am

Hmmmm, sharpie sliding off... Gosh, it seems to work for me. I just let it dry. Could there be oil or something on your metal?

No, I scrubbed it with dawn and a scotchbrite pad. it only happened with the thin sharpie, not the regular sharpie. I just figured it came off because it was a thinner layer of ink.

how many times do you guys re-use the salt water solution? After 2 times I couldn't see the copper pieces, the water was all coppery colored, not yellow like tracy's is in her pic.

carrieb

2010-08-14, 12:19pm

I'm still fooling with this and don't have much to show for my efforts. It is a challenge. I've burned up two transformers so far, so my next try is going to be with the battery charger and resistor.

I have been puzzling out which side the bubbler goes on too and have had the best luck with it placed on the negative side which is the side that has the junk piece of copper. I've had my sharpie ink flake off and also slide off.

I'm curious about the sludgy gunky stuff that coats the piece you're trying to etch. You get a bunch of it on the unetched piece of copper but the piece being etched gets a coating of it too. On one of my attempts I wiped it off and it removed my resist and quit etching the metal. Should I wipe it off or leave it on there until I'm done?

How many times can you use the water? And what do you do with the waste water? I've been trying to find out and have read a couple MSDS sheets on Copper Salts and they all say to dispose of it according to federal, state and local standards. I'm guessing I need to find my local toxic waste dump. So far I haven't found a feasible method to neutralize the waste water. I have read you can dilute it water to a safe parts per million but its an insane amount of water needed something like the amount needed to fill a swimming pool.

Any thoughts or tips will be appreciated :)

carrieb

2010-08-15, 9:59am

Here is a link to purchase the article in the November 2008 Art Jewelry magazine. Its $3.95 to purchase the pdf file. I've just glanced thru the article and can see two areas where I will be making corrections to my process.

http://www.artjewelrymag.com/sitecore/content/Magazine%20Issues/2008/November%202008.aspx

Cristabman

2010-08-15, 10:51am

Your piece of copper without the design will get used up eventually. Just wipe off the sludge and keep going. The water can be reused many times. To dispose, let the water evaporate and throw out the copper and salt that remain. PNP blue paper works really well as a resist or paint pens. Thin Sharpies don't put down enough ink to be a resist. Keep the 2 plates directly across from each other and close in the salt water.

thl

2010-08-15, 1:17pm

I can't seem to get my notes under the minimum file size. Here's a pdf that I put on the internet that may help. It's just my personal evaluation I did to help me remember for next time I etch.

http://ssprockets.com/saltetch/saltwateretchprocess.pdf

In order to prevent burnout of the wall transformers, put some resistors in to provide a constant load. The load from the etch bath ebbs and flows causing it to pretty much short out and overheat the transformers. I tried the battery charger, but my battery charger was too "smart" and would eventually shut down as it didn't think it was hooked up to a battery, or thought the battery was broken/charged. I haven't read the article above but this is working for me very consistently using a 9V/400mA wall transformer and 2 each 10 ohm resistors from radio shack. I did mount the resistors on a circuit board and screwed that into a box so they didn't melt the plastic anymore.

Oh, and I don't necessarily vouch for the positive and negative signs on the circuit :) I use the bubble method to validate the polarity.

I'm not sure how to put links in so here's just text of the address...
http://ssprockets.com/saltetch/saltwateretchprocess.pdf

carrieb

2010-08-16, 5:51am

Thanks Tami & Christa for extra information. I'm going to put my revised set up together this week and will check back in to show my results........if I have any that is ;)

fullajoyy

2010-09-30, 11:56pm

Would someone using a rectifier help me set up my rectifier for etching? I haven't used it in years and want to set it up correctly (i.e. I don't want to burn it up). Also, a photo or diagram would be quite helpful.

BTW, I purchased and used the PCB transfer toner paper and foil that Terry reommended. It made the most awesome, clear images that I have ever gotten. I have used PnP paper, markers, and Stayz-on ink in the past. Check out the images:

217393 217394