Which torch?

[Delana Loevbak]

I am in the market for a new ox/prop torch. (I'm not happy with my propane torch..I need more heat!) I have been looking at both the Nortel Minor and Midrange bench burners....I want something that will work with a wide range of glass and will allow me to learn and use different techniques. I know both of these torches are popular choices....I guess my main question is: Do I really need the Midrange or will the Minor do? I work from my home 'studio'....I am not a professional...I'm an enthousiastic :fireblob: hobbyist. Your comments (good or bad) about these torches would be welcome.
Thanks!

[Just Nancy]

No suggestions. Count me as a hobby opinion. More about fitting it in the budget than torch specifications.

I understand each flame is different. Not an expert but at least with the minor and midrange you should be comparing apples to apples so to speak. One would have the extra ports. Do you think you're going to want to go bigger, big boro for example? That might be important.

I went with a 'smaller' torch and have been happy for several years. But I've had a nagging desire for a Barracuda. I can't justify it just yet, but couldn't have several years ago. So while it seems silly to me to own $800-$900 worth of torches (hobbiest like you). It would have been just as out of line for me to start on a $700 torch. My choice worked so I could be in a torch and dreaming of another some day instead of still waiting to own one.

Only you know your budget and what you think you'll want to do. I took a class on a minor years ago and it was a nice first step from my hot head. If your budget will take the midrange and you think you want to expand, I'd consider buying up. As I understand it, the midrange is the minor with the extra burners so you'd basically be buying the minor twice.

I'm sure others will have more technical suggestions. Good luck.

[R4GlassStudio]

Delana,
There are lots of wondeful torches out there to look at. In the lampworking world, the question of which torch to get is asked just about every day. After all, it is the most important tool for our art form.
There are many questions you should ask yourself to help you decide.
1) What kind of budget are you on?
2) What kind of glass are you going to melt, now and in the future?
3) How big do you want to work? Will that change soon or in a few years?
4) What do you want to make? Hollow, solid, beads?
These are just a few things to think about. Now that I think about it, I should create a list of questions that at the end, would suggest a few torches that fit an artists wants and needs. If you need help, send me an e-mail. I have used just about every torch out there.... starting on a hot head, going to the minor as my first o2/propane torch, then about 12 torches later..... the Bethlehem great white.
ronjr@r4glassstudio.com
Ron Jr.

[Cosmo]

I have a MidRange, and, while it's not "ideal" for what I do, it works. The only complaint I really have about it is that it's not a center-fire torch. But, if that doesn't bother you, it's a fine torch. I can make boro marbles up to 2" on it. That's a big mass of glass.

However, I'm in the market for several new torches for our studio. We will probably get Bethlehem Barracudas if I can find the right deal on them.

[loco]

I would suggest that you also consider a mini cc. I love mine and is is price similar to a minor. I can do large or small, solid or hollow, boro or soft glass.

I quickly grew out of my minor and was limited in what I could do size wise. The mini cc filled my needs very well at a price I could afford.

[sleekbeads]

Well.. I'm in the same boat as I am only now upgrading my torch.
I've spoken with Mr. Smiley (doll!) who has guided me in the right direction.
I'm either going with a mini cc or a pirhanna. (sounds like the pirhanna is going to be a better purchase for me.
Let me put it this way... when income tax money comes I'll decided then which one I can buy... lol

:)

[Delana Loevbak]

Thanks so much for your quick responses! Ok...next question for you guys.....Know any good web sites where I can compare and shop for torches....I know a couple but it seems like they don't have Mini CC or Pirhanna.

[Cosmo]

http://www.mountainglassarts.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.4/.f
http://arrowsprings.com/html/torches.html
http://www.dichroicimagery.com/
http://waleapparatus.com/

All of those carry both the Mini CC and Pirhana

http://www.lampworkingsupplies.com - carries Bethlehem
http://www.generationsglass.com/Torches.html - carries Bethlehem

[orodrago]

I was seriously looking at the Midrange Plus (Midrange with a Minor on top) and all the feedback I got on it indicated that you would have to use tanked oxy ...repeat tanked oxy....to get best performance from it...
so were you planning on using tanked oxy or an oxy con?
If an oxy con only, you might want to avoid the midrange....
you can view some online advice I got at:
http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144
happy torch hunting! Cheers, Lavender

[Cosmo]

I run my MidRange Plus on two AirSep Newlife concentrators when I'm out of tanked oxygen. I can't get quite as big of a flame or as hot of a flame as I can from tanks, but I made a 1 1/4" marble on it the other night with no problem. One more concentrator should really make it scream.

[Delana Loevbak]

I plan on using tanked oxy....haven't even considerd a oxy con....is this a cheeper option in the long run....is it safer than tanked oxygen?

Chad ....You said about the midrange.....'The only complaint I really have about it is that it's not a center-fire torch'.....What does this mean? I've been working with something called a volcano...It would surprise me if any of you have ever heard of it. Some of your 'torch jargon' is new to me....I'll do my best to keep up!

I've narrowed my search now (Thanks to the wisdom of your replies!) Deciding between the Mini cc and the Beth. Piranha...I noticed the piranha doesn't have a graphite pad on it....is this a problem when working....it also doesnt seem poss to bolt it to a work surface. Most important is the flame I guess....

[Cosmo]

Center fire torches are basically a torch within a torch. This is the face of a Bethlehem Barracuda (center fire):

http://www.bethlehemburners.com/face01.gif

The 7 jets in the center use one set of controls (it's basically a Pirhana torch in the middle) and the outer jets have different controls. So, you can use any combination of outer and inner flames, or use just the inner flame.

On my MidRange, one torch is on top of the other, so you have to turn one off to turn the other on because it's not practical to use them both together.

[HardwoodTrailGlass]

For what it is worth, if I upgrade it would be to a Cuda, because of the inner and outer fire choices. Also, the price :) BTW, I have a Lynx now and am happy w/ it, but I want a wider flame sometimes.

[Cosmo]

Our new studio is going to have 8 Barracudas, provided we can afford them...

[LAG]

I sold my Minor and bought a Mini CC for the hotter working range. Does boro beads real well. Very nice torch. Hubby likes it.
For my major torch, though, I use A Knight Dragon Bullet 7/14.. similiar to Barracuda and does just about anything I want. I have been making marbles about 1 1/2 inches. Will do 2 inch but takes too long...

[Just Nancy]

If I'm not mistaken the Piranaha is the center of the Barracuda. So in Chad's picture the center 7 holes would be the flame on say my bobcat and the second ring would be included in the....not sure in this line.

But if I'm right, then the center set of holes would be the Piranah and the full set would be the Barracuda or center fire torch.

Then there are all those big daddy's out there with even more circles, holes, options. Now I remember the midrange is a top and bottom set up isn't it.

Good luck. Any chance you can see the torch in operation before speaking for one?

[Cosmo]

Yep. The Pirhana is basically a Barracuda without the outer rings. The center of the PM2D and Tiger Shark is a Pirhana too.

That's the case with GTT torches too. The Lynx is the center fire on the Phantom, Mirage, and Delta. I would assume it's also on the Cobra and Python, but I don't know anyone who has ever used one of those...

[Robyn]

I have a Minor, a Red Max and a Mirage. I get great results on all the soft glass companies from all three. I don't care for the larger flame on the Red Max (which is pretty similar to the mid range) since its too cool a flame for larger beads. The Mirage is wonderful for that AND for boro.
I also prefer a torch with inner and outer rings rather than having to go up and down between the two. Its too fiddaly.
The GTT torches - in all their sizes are excellent.

Robyn

[Cosmo]

The RedMax is about twice what a MidRange is. I used one not too long ago, and it was a huge improvement over the MidRange (using liquid oxygen on both). If you don't like it, you wanna sell it?

[Robyn]

Thanks for the offer, Cosmo, but no. We need it for the minor when teaching. Our Mirage is going to be set up in a separate studio soon, so I guess I'll just have to adjust to the larger flame.... until I can afford to change it! Still paying off the Mirage!
Robyn