From *FREE* to *PURCHASEABLE* Tut Question....

[theglasszone]

Hi All~~~

I'm looking to you for some advice, and I'd appreciate your honest feedback on this question :)

Exactly one year ago (before the category of "Tutorials for Purchase" was born) I posted a Tut here entitled "Hot Head Black Nebula Reduction Tutorial" that my daughter and I put together. It seemed pretty well received by a lot of LE members, and I was happy (as always!) to share my knowledge and tips with those I thought I might help.

Unfortunately, it has recently come to my attention that someone establishing a new online glass store was wanting to copy my Tutorial as a PDF file and post it in their on-line Library. Although I expressed that I was not "comfortable" with that idea, they told me that when you Googled "George Tessman Black Nebula" my Tutorial was first on the "hit" list. Although this surprised even me (and frankly, I admit I was kind of flattered!), I believe this puts my Tutorial in a somewhat "public knowledge and information" category and I now am concerned on how it may be accessed, copied and distributed without my knowledge or permission from this point on.

As a result, I've pulled it from LE and am considering offering it in the near future as a Purchasable Tutorial through Etsy as a PDF (and for a very reasonable price).

But what do you guys think? Do you think anyone might still be interested in it?

I realize this may seem sort of petty and proprietary on my part (considering this was originally posted a while back, for "free" and is a bit rough in format compared to the "pro" tuts currently offered) but given that it has had 4,000+ views and 52 postings, I feel it still may have value to both myself and the newer lampworking community.

I thought, though, before being hasty and making myself look too silly, I'd throw it out there for some feedback.

Please let me know what you think - your opinions mean a lot to me!!!!

Thanks,
De

[pastafarian]

You are the copyright holder for your tut. If you are worried about illegal reproductions of your content then place a copyright notice on all pages. This won't stop people from making illegal copies but gives you legal recourse to deal with those that do. If you would like me to I am willing to layout your tut and make it nice and pretty for you. I'm out of work with a back injury and took up lampworking as a hobby. I love it. Anyway I do photography and graphic design as a living and would enjoy a chance to help you out witha freebie just to keep me busy when I can't work on glass late at night. If you have any questions just ask or pm me.

John

[theglasszone]

Hi John~~~

Thanks for your posting and offer :) At this point, I've removed the Tutorial from LE (can't delete the entire thread, but have removed content) and coverted it to PDF. The photos aren't bad, and there is a TON of information in there, so I think I'm gonna roll with it! My kids are terribly supportive of "this old lady" anytime they can show off their computer skills and show me "how it's done", so I've got assistance (at a price, I'm sure! Giggle!)

Wishing you great success with your lampwork, and if I hear of anyone who needs help with writing a tutorial or I decide to do another one in the future, I'll keep you in mind!

Regards from CA,
De

[Hels]

Wow. I think that's awful, and I dont' blame you for doing it.

That said... er... WHAT did it look like as a finished product? I'd go put a few finished results all over the page you edited:P

[Diane Woodall]

Hi DeAnne,

I publish a newsletter for the members of the Houston ISGB chapter and in every issue I include a tutorial by one of our members. In addition, I've asked tutorial authors on LE if I can include their tutorials in our newsletter, but would never dream of using another person's intellectual property without their full consent. I think you have every right to distribute your property as you see fit.

The way I see it, you put the tutorial on LE for the use of the members of LE, not so that anyone could copy it and put it on their own website. That seems rather presumptuous of me, and at the least it was bad manners.

I hope everything works out for you.

[honey*bee]

As a "newbie" I think that some of the purchasable tuts are ridiculous. Some things are little tidbits that masters just pass down. Such as not burning the color out of Rubino Oro. Enough practice and anyone can figure it out but it is nice to be able to share info. Also things like that are not really taking any money directly out of your pocket, that is to say you aren't exactly creating competition because even though you may be able to work a type of glass doesn't mean that you will be able to create what people want to buy. So I honestly feel that it is a bit greedy to charge for such info. However I can understand that you do not want someone taking your free tut and making money off of it, that is wrong. I feel that what it really come down to is shit happens and not all people have the same moral and business views so you have to decide if it is something you are willing to risk. To answer the question, though, I would say no to charging for that BUT I would say yes to combining it with some other techniques useful to a HH user and selling it.

I don't want anyone to be offended by this or think I'm being rude. I am just trying to give an honest opinion.

[Janelle Zorko]

DeAnne,

I think you have every right and SHOULD do what you plan to do. I have several tuts too that I basically gave away for free that I may consider selling now. It makes me feel weird but I think we all need to make a living, don't we?

As to the site, they can't just publish YOUR tutorial without asking your permission. I suppose they could re-work it or whatever but you might have more success selling it on your own or even let them do it but you get your take.

Good luck to you!

Janelle

[Karen Hardy]

It's your tutorial and you have the right to do whatever you
gosh darn well please with it! Since it's been posted here for so
long, one thing you might consider doing is fleshing it out a bit with
more tips, more pictures and more info. There's NO reason you
shouldn't earn some cash for your hard work!!!

[Geneva]

As a person that publishes technique and designs for a living in book form, I say yes. It is your property. If you choose to give it away it is your right. If someone else chooses to give or publish it without your permission, they do NOT have the right to do this. Because it was done on the web you may not be able to do anything about this. It needs to be a document to be time stamped in some way. ie self addressed unopened certified mail, government agencie ect. All of my books and articles are documented. This way you are not accused of copying anyone or someone saying they did it before you.
As an individual you may not be able to do anything to stop her BUT as a group we the people on LE have the ability to try and help you. Many of your fellow LE'ers are fixing to be in the same position you are in. Everyone that hasn't please document your tutorials right away because anyone with no scruples can come in here and download and post them anywhere they want and you do not have the money to fight them unless you want to mortgage your house.
Really we have to figure out how to help our authors and this seems to be the right thread to do it on.
Geneva

[Geneva]

Jannelle, How can you stop them if they want to do it?
Geneva

[Rudy]

Hi De,

I was recently involved in the "tutorial copyright" issue, and I know that some members were not happy with my conclusions. Mine were opinions formed after speaking to a couple of lawyers that I work with. That being said, I also made it clear that I would not sell any of tutorials without the authors permission...so long story short...I'm behind you on this one! Gifting your tutorial was your choice....This person has no right to benefit from your hard work, without your express permission. IMHO

[glasshouse]

DeAnne, your tutorial is still viewable in Google's cache. I just did a search to double-check.

Why don't you contact the person who wants to put it in their library and tell them No way Jose.
Is this by the same person who is compiling a new Tutorial Index site?

I use Google all the time to look up glass stuff. Sometimes the results to my search are posts on LE from years ago.
I don't think it means anything nefarious that your tutorial comes up when someone searches GT Black Nebula.


But I think if you added on to the tutorial and made it about more than just one color of glass on a hot head,
you would be teaching something that a lot of people would find value in and they would want to pay you for it.
The Black Nebula instructions as offered for free could be a sneak peek at what we can expect from your tutorial.
I know you've figured out how to work lots of other silver glasses on your hothead!
This knowledge would be worth $$$ to lots of frustrated hot head users. :)



DeAnne, this is not specifically directed to you, but on the subject of sharing information on forums in general:

Please, let's not start deleting the wealth of public information that everyone has contributed to.
That is exactly what I was afraid of when I saw tutorials being offered for purchase.
I have seen several people complain that since tutorials started selling,
some people have pulled their free tutorials from LE and other places so that they could offer them for sale.
I hadn't personally seen it happen (I don't catalogue every tutorial on LE) but it makes me sad.
I think it makes the people who do it seem greedy, even if they have good intentions.
Can't think of a nice way to say that, but I don't want to be hurtful to anyone specifically.
I am speaking in generalities.

~Kelly

[AKDesigns]

DeAnne, your tutorial is still viewable in Google's cache. I just did a search to double-check.



It's still viewable right here on LE too. You guys are forgetting that you just can't delete here anymore. People just have to click on your "edited by" and they can see the original post. Frankly, if I was going to put up any kind of tutorial I would put it up on my own website where I have complete control over the content and just post a link to it on here.

[glasshouse]

I forgot about that new feature. I love it and hate it at the same time. :)

I think your suggestion is right on, Amy.

[theglasszone]

DeAnne, your tutorial is still viewable in Google's cache. I just did a search to double-check. I see the link still comes up, but since I've removed and saved the basic content on my hard drive, I hope I've done what I can for the moment to protect it.

Why don't you contact the person who wants to put it in their library and tell them No way Jose. I did, and I'm assuming they will honor my request; I have bookmarked their site, though, and will continue to check it from time to time.

Is this by the same person who is compiling a new Tutorial Index site? Absolutely not, and I have registered at the new "Lampwork Tutorials" site and hope to add my Tutorial there once I decide how I will be offering it. The lady running this new site has been extremely helpful and supportive! I see that she, as well, has posted as best she can the "guidelines" that apply to her site as well as the tutorials that are posted there, and her scruples seem to be in proper alignment and with the rights (copyrights) and user parameters properly stated. I've chosen not to say specifically who it was that voiced their desire to add my Tutorial to their on-line library, and I will not reveal that name as I really don't feel it's necessary (at this point, anyway). In all fairness, I appreciate that they wrote me in advance of posting this on their site, so I don't want to engage in name-calling, calling out or any other inflammatory accusation - I'd just like to address the facts as I see them - that being a "free" tutorial-writers' rights and vulnerabilities.

I use Google all the time to look up glass stuff. Sometimes the results to my search are posts on LE from years ago.
I don't think it means anything nefarious that your tutorial comes up when someone searches GT Black Nebula.


But I think if you added on to the tutorial and made it about more than just one color of glass on a hot head,
you would be teaching something that a lot of people would find value in and they would want to pay you for it.
The Black Nebula instructions as offered for free could be a sneak peek at what we can expect from your tutorial.
I know you've figured out how to work lots of other silver glasses on your hothead!
This knowledge would be worth $$$ to lots of frustrated hot head users. :) Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions; I can certainly consider adding photographs of the additional silver glasses I've had success with!

DeAnne, this is not specifically directed to you, but on the subject of sharing information on forums in general:

Please, let's not start deleting the wealth of public information that everyone has contributed to.
That is exactly what I was afraid of when I saw tutorials being offered for purchase.
I have seen several people complain that since tutorials started selling,
some people have pulled their free tutorials from LE and other places so that they could offer them for sale.
I hadn't personally seen it happen (I don't catalogue every tutorial on LE) but it makes me sad.
I think it makes the people who do it seem greedy, even if they have good intentions.
Can't think of a nice way to say that, but I don't want to be hurtful to anyone specifically.
I am speaking in generalities. Kelly, I understand what you're saying...I lost sleep last night worrying and wondering what I should do about this, and certainly don't want to ignite a cascade effect that would cripple our wonderful "free" tutorials section here. I'd never forgive myself for that! Still, this isn't a simple "technique" "tip" or "guide" blurb; it is many pages of detailed information and photos which is why I'm considering offering it for purchase. I'd hate to think all of that work would go into hiding or no longer be available to those who could really benefit from it.

~Kelly

Kelly - thank you so much for your response. I've responded to your post in blue for continuity.

Thanks, too, to those who have posted so far! I'm still feeling weird about the whole thing - but all of your input and support is helping a lot!

De

[AKDesigns]

I forgot about that new feature. I love it and hate it at the same time. :)

I think your suggestion is right on, Amy.

:lol: I guess she missed my post. The only alternative is to now ask Corri to delete the entire thread.

[theglasszone]

It's still viewable right here on LE too. You guys are forgetting that you just can't delete here anymore. People just have to click on your "edited by" and they can see the original post. Frankly, if I was going to put up any kind of tutorial I would put it up on my own website where I have complete control over the content and just post a link to it on here.

ACK!!! That's right! I'm gonna cry...!!! I hate to do it, but I think I'll ask at least and see if she will delete it for me. :(

De

[Janelle Zorko]

Jannelle, How can you stop them if they want to do it?
Geneva

Well, if it's important to you and if you have the money (usually $70 - $100+), you can have a lawyer send them a cease and desist letter. If they don't comply, you have to decide if it's *that* important to you, I suppose, and you take it further and sue them for infringement.

Most of us can't afford to do that, so I suppose you publish an even better one and hope that not too many people know about the other site.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about if they publish your tut word for word and with your pix because we all know it's difficult if not impossible to copyright techniques and design patents are out of this world expensive.

[glasshouse]

DeAnne, the tutorial is still viewable. If I search and your tutorial title comes up, I just click "cached" instead of the title
(at the end of each result) and Google gives me a snapshot of the page as it was on 03/20 when the spyderbot whatever
crawled over the page. It is also still viewable on LE if someone clicks the Last edited by So-and-So.. at the bottom of the post.

Corri can't delete the information from the Google cache. No one can, as far as I know.

You could publish a larger, more detailed, more colors, tutorial...silver glass for hothead users.
Charge more for it, and have control over how you choose to share it with the world.
People will appreciate the free information on Black Nebula, but I bet they will go nuts over a
tutorial that covers the different glasses that you have made sing!

:) Kelly

[AKDesigns]

This is gonna change what people share here....

[glasshouse]

Google cache has always been around. I usually check the cached page if a page is down or content has been moved.

[shawnette]

First off, let me state that this is my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions...

This whole "tutorial selling" thing is getting sooo ridiculous. Deleting free information and then offering the same thing for sale? Come on. If the technique is some big secret, then why share it to begin with? It's the internet. Everything posted to the internet is available for the world to see. If you don't want to share the information freely, then don't; but you can't just go back after the fact and say, "Oh, I changed my mind. If you want to know how to do this, you have to pay." I for one would be extremely ticked off if I found out that I paid for a tutorial that had been previously offered for free, unless it was seriously reworked to include a lot more than just the original.

Now, on the flip side, if you do decide to sell a reworked tut, that's fine and dandy; just leave the free one out there. I mean if the new one is that great, people will pay for the nicer version. That's why re-releases do so well.

Again, this is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

[myrdlebp]

I think you are right on it Shawnette!

[theglasszone]

Shawnette~~~

Girl, gotta tell you, when I read your post I had a little "twang" in my heart, and it just sank :(

But I know what you're saying is absolutely true and so I don't take it with a grain of salt...I asked for genuine opinions and you gave me yours! I sincerely appreciate it...

I think I need to think about this some more...and maybe reposting it and letting it just stand as it was - and in the spirit it was originally posted - is how this story should go. 8-[

I admit, I've learned a valuable lesson (actually, a couple of them!) so I will consider all of this if I ever decide to post another tutorial, free or otherwise.

Thanks for being so forthright.

De

[myrdlebp]

OH, De! Please don't let your bee-wings lower!!! You have quite a few GOOD angles for writing a tut! Maybe it is just not the right time but you are asking the questions and gaining info from that! I still like the little bee thang, don't give up! I hate the thought of giving up, so DON'T! The right time, I will be waiting!

[shawnette]

Shawnette~~~

Girl, gotta tell you, when I read your post I had a little "twang" in my heart, and it just sank :(

But I know what you're saying is absolutely true and so I don't take it with a grain of salt...I asked for genuine opinions and you gave me yours! I sincerely appreciate it...

I think I need to think about this some more...and maybe reposting it and letting it just stand as it was - and in the spirit it was originally posted - is how this story should go. 8-[

I admit, I've learned a valuable lesson (actually, a couple of them!) so I will consider all of this if I ever decide to post another tutorial, free or otherwise.

Thanks for being so forthright.

De

I'm not saying don't sell a tutorial. I'm saying don't take the free one and sell it. I'm pretty sure Black Nebula is not the only color you work with and I seem to recall that you make some pretty nifty beads. Just re-write it in a nicer format with some good photos and add an additional color or two and perhaps some particular tips & techniques for hothead users (there are never enough of those) and bam! 'Hot Head Reduction in Technicolor!' Kelly posted some excellent ideas.

[Corey]

I'm sorry De but this is exactly how I feel I was just afraid to say it. :hide:

First off, let me state that this is my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions...

This whole "tutorial selling" thing is getting sooo ridiculous. Deleting free information and then offering the same thing for sale? Come on. If the technique is some big secret, then why share it to begin with? It's the internet. Everything posted to the internet is available for the world to see. If you don't want to share the information freely, then don't; but you can't just go back after the fact and say, "Oh, I changed my mind. If you want to know how to do this, you have to pay." I for one would be extremely ticked off if I found out that I paid for a tutorial that had been previously offered for free, unless it was seriously reworked to include a lot more than just the original.

Now, on the flip side, if you do decide to sell a reworked tut, that's fine and dandy; just leave the free one out there. I mean if the new one is that great, people will pay for the nicer version. That's why re-releases do so well.

Again, this is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

[theglasszone]

No worries, my beloved Peeps! Onward and upward!!! I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate you allowing me to use you as a sounding board - I trust you guys to give me grounded, genuine input and that is just what you've done!

After thinking about this all day (and most of last night!) I have returned the Tutorial to is original location here on LE - and it's still FREE!!! I have added a "Copyright" notation, and am also adding a link to it on my website (finally!).

I have suggested to the original inquirer that they add a "link only" to my Tutorial as posted here on LE and asked them to refrain from creating it as a PDF or otherwise allowing it's access from their site, except for the direct LE link.

I will be asking the owner of the new Lampwork Tutorials website to please allow me to submit this there as well - and it will remain a free, public access informational Tutorial and stand for my willingness to share, teach what (little) I know, and inspire those that come here to learn!

I thank you again for giving me this opportunity to "explore" my feelings, as well as give me some good food for thought and prevent me from being not only hasty, but foolish!

I think I'll leave this thread just where it is for now...I think it gives current and future Tutorial writers - both free posters and those who publish - another perspective and proper sense of caution!

Hugs to all!
De

PS: For those of you who haven't seen it, here's the link (wink!): http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1748856#post1748856

[ladymeme123]

Hi De, I'm glad you decided to leave the infor available here for LE members. The info in the tut is very useful and well presented. With that being said, I think that is the reason for the interest in your tut. I think the entire situation with the site wanting to use your tute, just opened up another window of oportunity for you. Being a newbie on a hothead, I would value and pay for a tutorial from you with more info on maybe other silver colors, HH tricks, basic reactive colors ie. which ones contain copper ect., which colors hate/love each other, and maybe how to make a particular bead. Just use this whole situation as a springboard, and go for it! Good luck..


Michelle:waving:

[DaBatt]

De ~ Well done, I know that it's not an easy decision to reach!
It's a great tutorial & I looked at it when you first put it up here & gained a lot from it, Thank You :)

I had a similar problem to this last year. I'd put out a free tutorial of a non- glassy nature about 3 years earlier. Last year when the paid tutorials started becoming really popular here, it reminded me of it & I checked the views it had had, in one particular venue - they were over 7,000.
On my homepage the views were pretty phenomenal too. Even though, to me, it was the quickly put together 'no frills' version (& one that could do with a lot of improvement) I'd had loads of positive feedback - with some people saying that it was the best & easiest to follow that they had ever seen.


Of course it begged me to ponder the obvious question - but a huge part of me wasn't comfortable with selling something that I had previously offered freely, so I put the question 'out there' on my blog first.

Fortunately for me - a very wise lady, Ang aka AngelinaBeadalina, follows my blog & came up with the perfect solution;

"My suggestion? Offer it as a tutorial for sale on Etsy, along with a little blurb about how to find the free version online. That way, those who want to repay you for your work can do so, and you'll also know that you are still reaching out to help others by keeping the other version online for now."

So the decision was reached was that I would repackage it & make a substantially more comprehensive version to sell, while leaving the original 'no frills' version available online.

As Michelle said - use this as a springboard.... I too would have given anything for a tutorial covering various aspects of silver glass & colour reactions when I was on a Hot Head!!

[Imaglassgal]

Just another take on the issue...

If I loved and benefited from the information in a free tutorial I would be waaaaay more likely to spend money for ANOTHER (not free) made by the same artist.

Good luck with future tutorials and know that your past effort is appreciated or your tutorial would not be in demand!

Marina

[BeCharmed]

I so agree with Imaglassgal, if a free tutorial was so helpful to me I know without a doubt that i would purchase a tute from that same artist. I also have to say and I hope you don't mind that leaving the free one on LE and not deciding to benefit financially from it is also absolutely the right thing to do. It could have caused you some major headaches and sleepless nights further on down the road to pull it and then sell it. Bravo for doing the right thing :-)

[theglasszone]

Thanks for your input on this, ladies and gents! I definitely feel WAY BETTER about the whole thing...especially now that I've figured out how to post it to my website.

Frankly, just to clarify, it wasn't my intention so much to financially benefit from this Tutorial as to protect it, as we all want to do with our various "babies" :) right?

But this was definitely the way to go...and I'm happy to leave it available to anyone who may be interested and find it useful.

De

[Bunyip]

I have a lot of respect for your decision, particularly in these trying times. I've seen others who have made the opposite choice and while I intellectually understand that it is their right to do so, it just doesn't sit quite right with me emotionally. It's just that I have always felt that the more you give -- the more you get. I know that if I find a free tutorial particularly good or useful I would definitely be likely to BUY a different tutorial from that same artist - so that makes it free advertising.

My 2 cents, probably worth what you paid for it.

[theglasszone]

I have a lot of respect for your decision, particularly in these trying times...My 2 cents, probably worth what you paid for it.

Thanks for the kind words! I am thankful, in retrospect, that I went this way - and put the Tutorial back on in a *FREE* format...I know now it was the right thing to do.

And as far as your valuable opinion, it's worth WAY MORE THAN 2 CENTS TO ME!!! :)

Hugs,
De

[samandsha]

I have read enough of this thread to see that both sides of opinions have been stated.

So here's my thoughts. It truly is your hard work that spawned the tips in this instance. Just throwing this out there....how about taking the technique a step farther and listing the tutorial for sale with the disclaimer on the free one that after you get this technique down, if you want to take the technique to an advanced level...here's a tutorial available that includes this info plus...blah blah blah more. Just a thought.

[Chau Nguyen T]

I do agree with Marina. Your tuts is a big step for the HH people to work with silver glass. Any tuts for silver glass from you will be welcome from this group. A few weeks ago i did mention this tuts to a newbie. Good works always travel far.
I think with this experience you will not forget the fine line on the next tuts.
As a HH i'm very appreciate your tut deeply. It helps me to work with silver glass easier.
Thank you.