firefreak
2006-02-01, 7:33pm
I'm still new to this forum, and I'm not looking to step on anyones toes!!! But, I have read through all the posts on propane safety, and found a couple of minor risks that I would like to bring to everyones attention.
First let me give you my credentials. I'm a career (paid) Fire Officer. I have been trained by the U of I Fire School in Fire Prevention, Building Inspection, etc. (BS Fire science). I'm also in charge of a Station, and a Fire crew every third day. (Been in the Fire Service over 15 yrs)
now Let me give credit where credit is due. Mike and Dale, I don't know if you have been trained, but you guys have done ONE HELL OF A JOB!!! I have read all you safety posts, and I am impressed with you working knowledge of safety issues.
OK, the things I have issues with: outside storage of propane. I read that some of you keep propane inside of plastic tubs or other type of storage devices. No problem!!! BUT could you label the outside of the container with nice big (4 inch or larger) letters stating " propane tank inside"?
the reason for this is: All fire officers are trained to walk around any structure fire as soon as the truck stops to identify a huge list of things that may come into play as the fire progresses. It would be easy to miss the fact that there is propane right outside the structure! ( think night, rain, people trapped etc).
I have seen propane tanks in the open before. I assign a crew member to remove them to a safe distance right away!
I have been at a fire where 2 -20lb tanks (stored inside against code) exploded. It blew off the roof( building was 150 x 350 ft) blew 4 of my crew out of the building ( none died, Thank God), and the structure ended up a total loss. So label the container if you would. It is not required for a residence. (Commercial structure is required) But it might save someones life if you label the container.
Second issue: I read that some who live in northern climates place an electric blanket around their tank to help keep the pressure up in cold weather. I have been researching this for the last week, and heres what I came up with. Not against code (NFPA, BOCA, or local), but unsafe none the less. I have called several friends in the fire business and everyone agrees it's unsafe. ( most couldn't believe anyone would even think of this. Very creative!!) I checked our local records and in the past 8 years we have had 3 house fires started by electric blankets. It seems that when they are wadded up and left on high for a couple of hours that the temp can rise to ignition point in older (pre 85) units. Of course they are not rated to get wet either!
So what do you do? I don't have an answer. I know that larger tanks are often buried for aesthetics and to insure pressure stays up. ( something I have to check for when we get called to rural fires), but that is unpractical for a small tank. Insulation does no good. the tank does not generate any heat to hold in. The only thing we could come up with is to make sure that the heating device is not wadded up or very old. or some type of small device that is water resistant and only fits around the tank without being wadded up. No one I talked to was willing to suggest any solutions. One person with NFPA said that a code to address this issue was needed. But in my experience that takes forever.
So in the meantime, be aware that heating a tank is a risk.( rubbermaid containers and rubber hose burn you know) I'm sure with all the creative minds here that someone will come up with a workable solution. If you have to heat your tank keep a close eye on how long you apply heat. Once the liquid is warmed, shut off the heat until needed.
You DON"T want me (or any other firefighters) coming to your house. We leave one HELL of a mess.
First let me give you my credentials. I'm a career (paid) Fire Officer. I have been trained by the U of I Fire School in Fire Prevention, Building Inspection, etc. (BS Fire science). I'm also in charge of a Station, and a Fire crew every third day. (Been in the Fire Service over 15 yrs)
now Let me give credit where credit is due. Mike and Dale, I don't know if you have been trained, but you guys have done ONE HELL OF A JOB!!! I have read all you safety posts, and I am impressed with you working knowledge of safety issues.
OK, the things I have issues with: outside storage of propane. I read that some of you keep propane inside of plastic tubs or other type of storage devices. No problem!!! BUT could you label the outside of the container with nice big (4 inch or larger) letters stating " propane tank inside"?
the reason for this is: All fire officers are trained to walk around any structure fire as soon as the truck stops to identify a huge list of things that may come into play as the fire progresses. It would be easy to miss the fact that there is propane right outside the structure! ( think night, rain, people trapped etc).
I have seen propane tanks in the open before. I assign a crew member to remove them to a safe distance right away!
I have been at a fire where 2 -20lb tanks (stored inside against code) exploded. It blew off the roof( building was 150 x 350 ft) blew 4 of my crew out of the building ( none died, Thank God), and the structure ended up a total loss. So label the container if you would. It is not required for a residence. (Commercial structure is required) But it might save someones life if you label the container.
Second issue: I read that some who live in northern climates place an electric blanket around their tank to help keep the pressure up in cold weather. I have been researching this for the last week, and heres what I came up with. Not against code (NFPA, BOCA, or local), but unsafe none the less. I have called several friends in the fire business and everyone agrees it's unsafe. ( most couldn't believe anyone would even think of this. Very creative!!) I checked our local records and in the past 8 years we have had 3 house fires started by electric blankets. It seems that when they are wadded up and left on high for a couple of hours that the temp can rise to ignition point in older (pre 85) units. Of course they are not rated to get wet either!
So what do you do? I don't have an answer. I know that larger tanks are often buried for aesthetics and to insure pressure stays up. ( something I have to check for when we get called to rural fires), but that is unpractical for a small tank. Insulation does no good. the tank does not generate any heat to hold in. The only thing we could come up with is to make sure that the heating device is not wadded up or very old. or some type of small device that is water resistant and only fits around the tank without being wadded up. No one I talked to was willing to suggest any solutions. One person with NFPA said that a code to address this issue was needed. But in my experience that takes forever.
So in the meantime, be aware that heating a tank is a risk.( rubbermaid containers and rubber hose burn you know) I'm sure with all the creative minds here that someone will come up with a workable solution. If you have to heat your tank keep a close eye on how long you apply heat. Once the liquid is warmed, shut off the heat until needed.
You DON"T want me (or any other firefighters) coming to your house. We leave one HELL of a mess.