Frustrated trying to make triangle beads! Help please!

[Vicki B.]

I need remediation on triangle beads and I can't figure out what the problem is as I seem to be stuck in a rut with these and not making any progress although I've had several sessions spread months apart and THINK I understand the theory. I'm working on a HH with mostly Moretti. I've been using the instructions in Corina's PTF book which seem clear. I seem to have 2 main difficulties:

1. the triangles are "stubby" - they start to do what they are supposed to, but end up about like equilateral triangles or even sort of a cross between a triangle and a dot. The do not reach to the other side.

2. Sometimes in working the bead trying to get them to stretch to the opposite side and form sharp points, I over work the bead, the base gets too hot, the whole thing spirals and half of the dots sink into the base.

I've tried these with various transparent bases and opaques with transparents on top.

I'd so like to make some of the triangle beads that have multiple layers and are only on one side of the bead (right hand or left hand). I thought these were probably triangle beads with one side of the bead having the triangles in the base bead color so only the opposite side really shows as triangles.
My attempts at these were equally bad - maybe worse.

I just cannot figure where the problem is - maybe in the size relationship of dots to base, or, more likely, in the way I'm melting things in. Today I tried some- working more slowly and melting each layer in before adding the next - same story, no improvement.

Does anyone know of a tutorial or some tips on this type of bead? Maybe I should only be heating from the sides or starting with a different base shape or???????

I'm also not terrific at the blended stripe "rainbow beads" that Corina has in her book and is repeated in Cindy Jenkins' latest. The stripes just don't like to spread as far as they should. I thought the HH would be good with it's broad flame, but no luck. Same thing everytime - AAARGH!

Thanks in advance!

[HardwoodTrailGlass]

Bigger dots and make sure you have good encasing on both sides.

[Solana]

Make sure you're starting with a thin disc-shaped bead. If you start with a round bead, your triangles or stripes won't really stretch out. Secondly, when you encase, be sure to cover the entire dot on both sides. HOWEVER, do not encase all the way to the mandrel. If you encase the bead that close to the mandrel, your triangles or stripes will not stretch out.

When I melt the dots, I do VERY slowly. My bead is out of the flame almost the whole time. I tease the outside layer of the bead in the edge of the flame to slowly melt all of the dots in at the same time. And like Carrie said...bigger dots will help. Just don't get them too big, or your design will crowd itself and not give you the look you want.

Good luck!

[Beadlady57]

Wow! I've been having the same problem as Vicki - your tips really help! I'lm going to try tomorrow. thanks! But, I'm wondering with a thin disc shaped bead....how would you get a large dot on both sides. Seems like there wiill only be room down the center for a large dot??

[Vicki B.]

Thanks to those who have answered. Guess it is a matter of proportion. That seems to be the toughest thing for me in making any bead - scale. I actually can never get my last clear layer to spread out on any bead as much as I'd like. Maybe I also need more encasement, huh? I've managed to make decent florals with stringer round and round (& thanks to lots of help on LE.), but any bead that starts with a disc and ends up with encasement (like simple frit over a base is always disappointing mainly because the encasement never covers as far to the edges as it should.
More PPP - maybe today.

[Kikki]

Here is a tutorial for triangle beads with a nice "what can go wrong" section. It doesn't cover encasing the beads but explains the un-encased version very well.

http://www.glassbaker.com/triangles.html

[Vicki B.]

That's a great tutorial and gives me hope. Thanks!

Do those of you who have mastered this technique think the casing helps achieve the triangle shape or does it just complicate the issue?

A second question - Is it true that the layered versions of this bead are just formed by adding more dots, and, if so, is it better to add the dots after the originals are fully or partially melted in?

[beadworkstudio]

I've been wondering how to do the layered versions, too. Looks to me like you'd have to stack the dots then melt them in. I'll try it and get back to ya later this week, if nobody answers. :)

[Kikki]

I would say it's always better to melt the dot in before adding another one. You have better control that way.

[Vicki B.]

Well, I tried a few more this morning and not much different. Tried skinnier bases, fatter dots, smaller dots, and trying to keep the base cooler. I can get a basic set of first and second layer triangles, that, when the final raised dots are added at the points, can PRETEND that they are triangle beads.
More than that, neither more layers nor encasement look decent. I think I just don't have enough control to make precise beads - and these have all precise elements in size and their relationship to one another. Encased florals can be more freeform and you can get away with a lot more. Guess I should practice these triangle bead every month or so to see if there's any improvement. I remember 6 mos ago I couldn't get 4 or 5 dots on a bead evenly. Well - at least there's slow progress. Now I'm going to go back out there and play with frit and stuff that I can moush up and salvage something stringable out of....
Attaching a .jpg of yesterday's pitiful attempts. One encased, one not - YUCK!!!

Thanks everyone. If you have any more insights, please pm me or post to this thread.
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[Moth]

Vicki, your dots are too small.

Remember, what is making these round dots turn into angular triangles is that they are distorting each other. If they don't have to compete for space, they aren't going to become triangles. They have plenty of room to stay round, just the way they are.

Almost double them if you reference the dark blue bead on the left.

And the encasing does help.

Keep the base bead narrow. Use bigger dots. When you encase, use LOT of glass, but keep it high, not wide. As it spreads out, it will pull the dots with it and help sharpen your triangles and take them full across.

~~Mary

[Vicki B.]

Yeah! Just when I was going to give up for a while. Those dots look so fat and stubby and crowded, I never would have figured out that I needed to make them BIGGER. I will try it tomorrow. This scale is REALLY complicated!
Do you direct the heat at the center of the bead or alternately at the sides?
Thanks.

[Moth]

Well, when I'm making them, I aim the heat at the mandrel first, melting it in a bit. Then I go to the other side and melt it in a bit.

Then I go to the center and melt it til it's smooth. Don't let the core get too hot though cuz you don't want it to widen too far. If it does widen up, I will use my mini masher or my tweezers to narrow it. Don't distort it though.

You want to keep it narrow so that when you encase it, it will have somewhere to spread. Plus, it is easier to encase this narrow profile in the way you need to do it.

For these, I heat a gather of clear about the size of the bead. Touch it to the bead centered, then wrap it all the way around. I use two wraps and then will add glops if it looks light on one side.

This I melt in pretty quick.

Drop your mandrel down below the flame...or behind if you are on a hothead that points more vertical. Just let the flame lick the clear...don't blast it into the whole face of the bead.

This will allow the clear to become molten and start to spread without getting your core off-balance or having the core spread too early.

As the clear is smoothing out, and you get a little braver cuz you see there are actually triangles under there, move the bead more into the flame and direct the heat at the holes.

This will pull the clear further down the sides and stretch your triangles to the edges.

The first couple you make, you aren't going to have enough clear on there, but as soon as you've made a handful, you will know how much to use.

The smaller base bead you start out with, the easier these are when you are just beginning.

Hope that helps.
~~Mary

[Vicki B.]

Thanks again! Will post if/when I get some better ones!

[Vicki B.]

I think I just made 2 triangle beads that are TRIANGLE BEADS thanks to Moth (& the other advice on this thread) telling me that my dots were too small!! In reality, I also started with too large (or wide) a base bead. The mistaken assumption I've been making - and not just on this type of bead is that you should start with a base the width you want the finished bead. In reality the bottom dots form the true width - DUH! This is such a breakthrough! Also a breakthrough to know to build up the clear encasement in a disc fashion! THANK YOU THANK THANK YOU!
The beads may not be perfect, but I see the method workin' now!

When Corina says "start with a sm base bead," SHE MEANS IT! I could put each layer of dots on top of the previous layer as soon as there was a rounded top to place the next layer on, and also put the clear encasement on in a disc type fashion (again - thanks to all on this thread.)

This really answers a lot of the problems I've been having with these types of beads. I might become a triangle and stripey makin' fool!

Thanks again all - if you're still listening!!!

Here's the "after:"
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[Heather/Ericaceae]

Wow, what a breakthrough! Great work, Vicki, and great explaining, Mary and other helpful folk!

[Moth]

Look at you GO Vicki!!!

Rock on!

~~Mary

=D>

[dragonfly designs 56]

Ohmygosh, So Happy To See This Thread!!!! Worked On This So Long, Finally Just Gave Up, Figured It Was Me.