Bubbles in a mesh pattern

[Miriam]

I learned from Sherry Bellamy (http://www.orcabeads.com/) in one of her wonderful classes, if you use brass mesh in a bead, it creates bubbles in a mesh pattern, like this bead.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5701/20090804kralen05.jpg

The chemistry behind it makes it easy to understand. Brass will burn of in the flame, but also under an encasement. When it burns, it leaves a gas. Under an encasement, the gas can't go anywhere but upwards to the surface. That is what creates the bubbles.
You have to be careful not to overheat your bead because then more brass will burn and the bubbles come together and form a big bubble. The bigger bubbles travel to the surface and burst open.

I make a small base, heat it till it glows and stick some small brass mash and wrap it around the bead. The glass must be hot to stick, not to hot otherwise the brass will burn away.
Keep the brass out of the flame and encase it. Make sure your encasement is fairly thick, otherwise the bubbles will come to the surface. Shape your bead and if you have been careful, there will not be much bubbles. Then heat and watch for bubbles. If you see them coming, get your bead out of the flame.

The brass mesh I used is a mesh size 60, the thread is 0.16 mm think and the aperture is 0.26 mm.

I hope this make sense, remember, English isn't my first language. ;-)

[QuiteCuntrary]

Thank you Miriam! Looks like fun!

[sortaflower]

So Cool Miriam, I can't wait to try this! Thank you =)

[Troll Lover]

Love it Miriam, thank you and thank Sherry for sharing this!

[KEW]

Thanks for the tutorial and your English is perfect.

[swamper]

OMG - awesome - thanks hugh bunches - gotta try this.

[PaulaD]

I am just wondering how safe brass fumes are to breath??
Paula

[theglasszone]

This is an interesting technique! I see there are some discussions going on in the Gallery, and although this is not my thread, Miriam, I hope we can share some feelings and observations here with care and consideration of everyone's feelings and opinions...

De

[Troll Lover]

Paula, the brass is encased and I think that's why it safe, the fumes stay under the encasement so you won't breath them in?

[theglasszone]

I'm curious about that too, Anouk and Paula...I know that so many presses are made from brass but I know there's no melting involved. Hope someone who knows for sure will pipe up and post :)

De

[shawnette]

Anytime you work with metals you should have proper ventilation. Brass is made up of Copper & Zinc (and sometimes lead) and it does produce fumes that you don't want to breathe.

[glassactcc]

I love this look. De, I too read the gallery thread. I didn't know this was Sherry's technique and when I saw the beautiful "champagne" beads, I didn't know it was anything secret. I too have done this years ago just by accident actually. I just think that sometimes this happens in the lampwork world. If I had gotten the inkling to make a bead with the brass mesh, I guess I would have been labeled as a copy cat, but that would not be the truth. I have never taken a class with Sherry or anyone else for that matter. Sometimes things just happen. Sometimes no one is at fault...SOMETIMES!

Oh, and by the way De, this isn't directed at you. I just know you knew what was going on in the Gallery.

Miriam, that is a beautiful bead! I might have to try this again.

[SunDoorBeads]

Thank you Shawnette, there are also other issues that I was told of from Chrissy about saftey that people need to be aware of before trying this technique- none of which Miriam addressed. I feel that this is not fair to those who are only wanting the Bling of the final result because there are things in between that could get you seriously burned.

[Miriam]

Last year Sherry showed how a little piece of brass mesh encased made bubbles. When I so Chrissy's beads, I remembered how the reaction was of brass mesh. I phoned Sherry yesterday and asked if she had a problem with me using the brass mesh in a bead and tell people how it worked. She didn't mind.

When I posted my bead, I got pm's and questions how to make this bead. I then thought is was easier to tell it in a short tutorial then writing it down every time and again. I didn't think it was something secret.

If I can share knowledge or whatever, I will do it.

[chrissij]

We all agreed to move the discourse outta' the gallery, so here it is, I think, for the most part, in its entirety.

When I saw Chrissy's nice sparkle balls, I remembered Sherry Bellamy (http://www.orcabeads.com/)showing in one of her classes the effect of brass mesh. After searching for the right mesh, I finally tried it on some beads. There are more beads on my blog (http://www.miriamsteger.nl).

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5701/20090804kralen05.jpg

Brass mesh?

Like this?

http://www.generalmesh.com/english/brass_wire_mesh.htm

They look to have some fairly small size. I want small, small, small. Ya'll are surprised by that, right?

Thank you all for the lovely comments on my bead (and blog) ;-)

I will write how to make this bead and what material I used in the free tutorial section.

I am really sorry here guys and stone me if you want but this whole thing with the brass technique of CHRISSY'S has gotten out of hand. If this is supposed to be a technique Sherry showed you all in class what right do you have to post a free tut on how it is done. Really is that how low some of you will stoop to stop another in their tracks? I am ashamed that this is how my fellow artists are treating one another. For all of you who think I am off base just look at where the artists who are exposing Chrissy are from- The Netherlands- to me this looks like they can't handle her having a little success and have to blindside her- just calling how I see it

On the other hand, if this is SHERRY'S brass technique, and it would appear to the casual observer that it is, it's not right for anyone else, even CHRISSY, who you partner with, to capitalize on it - just calling it how I see it...

and Sherry's too much of a class act to call anyone's attention to it. Maybe behind the scenes Sherry said, "go for it". We don't know. We only know what we see...and I see sketchy, m'self. Of course, I could be wrong...

So I'll bow out now.


Michelle, Chrissi and others...

I had similar thoughts and curiousity; I feel they are worthy of addressing and would love to hear from Sherry if she chooses to acknowledge or respond to this, but I think another area in this Forum would be a better place to start and continue the discussion.

Would any of you consider posting in the Family Room?

Just trying to keep the Gallery focused...

De

For the reccord, i have never seen my Gold Champagne Bubbles else where. And i have never been in Sherry's class.

Cool. Like I said, I could be wrong. To the casual observer, which I fully and freely admit to being, it could appear sketchy. Sherry taught in the Netherlands, you live in the Netherlands (and that might be like sorta', but not quite, like saying I live in the USA and so does Kevan), you appear with champagne balls soon after Sherry's class. Add it all up, and well...

See what I'm saying?

Everyone on this board is going to form their own opinion, regardless. Besides, I wanna' know how you can encase coral when I've never succeeded. We all have our own talents to share.


Originally Posted by SunDoorBeads
Oh and thank you for insinuating that I would have monetary gain from this which is anything but true we do partner for murrini but the tut would not be sold on our venue.

Originally Posted by chrissij
I wasn't insinuating monetary gain; I was insinuating (if you want to use that word) friendship. We all stick up for our friends, don't we? That's what friends are for, right?

***

EDIT: I've stuck my neck out and "opened the door", so to speak, in the Tut thread...I'm pulling my posts from here and hope others will take it there or elsewhere as I think it's a valuable discussion.

De


Please realize I'm not being bitchy, not really, and I've no bones to pick with anyone. I'm a karma takes care of all kinda' person, but I'm willing to admit, that sometimes I wanna' see it. So, shoot me. :wave:

Now. As you can see, it's all in one post. That I can delete. If everyone agrees. If Sherry doesn't care, and Chrissy doesn't care...who am I to care?
__________________

[tracidawn78]

I'm a karma takes care of all kinda' person

No truer words have ever been said :)

[shawnette]

Just let me say that Sherry Bellamy did NOT come up with this technique. I stumbled upon brass mesh in 2005 as a beginner and I've never seen Chrissy's sparkle beads, either, as I don't frequent the gallery.

ETA: I think I should rephrase that to say that the technique didn't originate with Sherry. If I could stumble upon it as a newbie, I'm sure there are 100s more who have done the same.

[chrissij]

Just let me say that Sherry Bellamy did NOT come up with this technique. I stumbled upon brass mesh in 2005 as a beginner and I've never seen Chrissy's sparkle beads, either, as I don't frequent the gallery.

Cool too...:lol:

Heck, Mandy posted about her dirty stringer causing bubbles the other day, and someone posted if she purposefully scuffed up her stringer it'd do the same thing. I thought, "Gee...if I scrape up a goldstone stringer...hmmm..."

[SunDoorBeads]

I love this look. De, I too read the gallery thread. I didn't know this was Sherry's technique and when I saw the beautiful "champagne" beads, I didn't know it was anything secret. I too have done this years ago just by accident actually. I just think that sometimes this happens in the lampwork world. If I had gotten the inkling to make a bead with the brass mesh, I guess I would have been labeled as a copy cat, but that would not be the truth. I have never taken a class with Sherry or anyone else for that matter. Sometimes things just happen. Sometimes no one is at fault...SOMETIMES!

Oh, and by the way De, this isn't directed at you. I just know you knew what was going on in the Gallery.

Miriam, that is a beautiful bead! I might have to try this again.

I would just like to know what your feelings are though about the fact that NO ONE said anything about this being a technique of Sherry's in the begining when Chrissy showed her beads and announced not only her tut but when it was coming out. How come no one came forward then to point this out? I just feel there is more to this than meets the eye and I for one know that Chrissy did not learn this from Sherry and came upon it like you did - all on her own since she nor I had ever seen beads like this I even (along with countless others) encouraged her to write the tut. Now having said this if this was a class technique that Sherry shows I am hoping that she does stop by to clear up whether or not ANYONE has permission to re-write the instructions. I for one know that this technique can be dangerous if the right percautions are not taken not only from fumes but from burns and that information NEEDS to be disclosed and I know that if it was Sherry she would have let her students know about the hazards up front.
I do love the beads made by this technique I think there are other issues at hand that are surrounding this tutorial.

[SunDoorBeads]

Last year Sherry showed how a little piece of brass mesh encased made bubbles. When I so Chrissy's beads, I remembered how the reaction was of brass mesh. I phoned Sherry yesterday and asked if she had a problem with me using the brass mesh in a bead and tell people how it worked. She didn't mind.

When I posted my bead, I got pm's and questions how to make this bead. I then thought is was easier to tell it in a short tutorial then writing it down every time and again. I didn't think it was something secret.

If I can share knowledge or whatever, I will do it.

So even though you knew someone else was writing a tutorial on this you still decided to railroad her- that is low

[JetAge Studio]

So even though you knew someone else was writing a tutorial on this you still decided to railroad her- that is low

Who said anything about Miriam knowing about Chrissy's tutorial? or am I assuming that's what you're talking about, Michelle? Did she say "I know Feng is doing a tut on this, but I'm beating her to it with a FREE tut?" I don't think so.

[chrissij]

Michele, who is saying it's a technique by Sherry? Miriam just said it's something she learned in a class with Sherry.

My bad. I insinuated it could be...

Since Miriam linked to Sherry's Website, I figured Sherry was aware of the kerfluffle.

[Troll Lover]

Oh sorry Chrissij, just deleted it, didn't want to make this thread uglier... And I also wanted to add, who says Miriam knew that Chrissy was doing a tut on it?

Gosh, this has big uglyness potential...

[SunDoorBeads]

Also since it seems like so many have stumbled upon this then all Chrissy was doing was writing it up in official form so ANYONE could learn it. And including all the necessary safety and extra info to make this a sucess. Her monetary gain would have been for her hard work and time in perfecting and addressing every saftey issue before we tried it out- is this any different than Anouk writing a tut on silver glass and how she gets it to "Sing" no one here de-railed her when she was coming up with the tut and a lot of us work with silver glass

[tracidawn78]

That's the risk you take when you come up with a "new" technique, have tons of people asking you how you do it, then you dangle a paid tutorial in front of their face saying it's coming. I'm not saying that's right or wrong either way, but she put herself out there. She posted the pictures, people wanted to know how to do it. The technique was pretty obvious to me. I've never tried it, but brass mesh was my first guess. The look of it doesn't particularly interest me personally, so I never bothered to try it.

If you post your pictures on the internet, expect people to want to know how they're made and expect them to dissect the technique. It's the nature of the beast. If you don't want anyone copying you then keep the beads to yourself. In Miami I saw TONS of beads and techniques that I've never even dreamed about. They were original and unique because the artists kept it to themselves and didn't post pictures. I post pictures because I don't care if anyone copies me (not like I'm doing anything innovative anyway). I look at pictures posted here all the time and bookmark them, save them, hell I even print them for inspiration. I can't tell you how many times I've printed off beads from Anastasia, Anouk, Hayley, the Lisa's, Glasting, etc trying to get a technique down. You set youself up for that when you post pictures. Welcome to the internet.

And at the risk of stirring up more drama here... I posted a comment in a S&T a month or two ago asking if Anouk & Chrissy were working together. They posted right after one another. The beads looked the same, used the same technique, and even had the same freakin' font. Anyone would have guessed they were working together. I was told they weren't, and went back to look for that style of bead and font. Anouk had been using it for months, Chrissy just started using the font that week. Was she copying Anouk? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. We're all inspired by each other all the time, consciously or unconsciously.

[JetAge Studio]

Also since it seems like so many have stumbled upon this then all Chrissy was doing was writing it up in official form so ANYONE could learn it. And including all the necessary safety and extra info to make this a sucess. Her monetary gain would have been for her hard work and time in perfecting and addressing every saftey issue before we tried it out- is this any different than Anouk writing a tut on silver glass and how she gets it to "Sing" no one here de-railed her when she was coming up with the tut and a lot of us work with silver glass

So, has anyone said, "Now you cant write your tut, Chrissy". Again, I don't think so. I think Chrissy could offer a lot of useful info on her tut, so let her.

[SunDoorBeads]

ummm Miriam herself said she saw Chrissy's beads that is how she "remembered" the technique. And along with Chrissy's beads she said she was doing one so if someone saw the beads they saw this info.

[SunDoorBeads]

I respect your opinion Renee, but think how you would FEEL if this was done to you several people have put info out that they are writing tutorials and they are not exposed like this i think Chrissy thought she would be given the same consideration. Wouldn't you expect that for yourself?

[SunDoorBeads]

Traci Dawn,
You actually hit a nail that Chrissy was fearing- exposing herself. I for one feel that this is always the case. This is where common decency comes into play. I know there are people that keep everything to themselves and if that was the case half of us would not even be here to share what we know- however, what I see is a little different it reminds me of highschool where everyone was so childish that only certain people were ALLOWED to succeed- the underdogs always had to suffer- about the font have you ever seen Chrissy's business webpage? it's been up for awhile. okay now back to this had it been any of the people you mentioned in your list coming up with this not one person I see posting would have torn the technique apart that is how i see it and there is tons of proof on this forum to back that up. Lets face it this place is just like highschool, The Real World, The Gauntlet (all MTV shows) all about cliches and who's who.

[JetAge Studio]

ummm Miriam herself said she saw Chrissy's beads that is how she "remembered" the technique. And along with Chrissy's beads she said she was doing one so if someone saw the beads they saw this info.

Again, I'm going to ask how you think Miriam knew about the impending tut. Just because she saw it on Chrissy's bead, does NOT mean she knew. As she stated, she saw the technique BEFORE Chrissy's bead....so it seems Chrissy doesn't own that technique. But, as I mentioned before, let her do the tut and stop getting so bent out of shape.

For the record, Chrissy also said a few times there was no wire, or copper in her technique. To me, that means there was something else she was using. Does that mean Miriam knew of a "different" technique" since she's using wire mesh?

Thank you so much Karolen and Kristina.

In the mean time i have been getting a bunch of e-mails and pm's if i would consider to write a tutorial. So i should do that, i just need to find me some time.

And there is no wire involved in my new technique

[Sherry]

A quick post from my perspective, (I'm getting packed to go on holidays)!

I did a series of beads with brass mesh years ago, I think I called them "Magic Fizz" or something. I think that anyone who puts metal into glass finds that some metals do funky things, I've NEVER claimed "ownership" of the brass outgassing effect, but it's one of many things that I demo in my classes, because it's cool, and because I came across the effect independently, and have found a few tricks that help when using brass.

So....not "Sherry's technique"; it's "Anyone's technique". It's really fun, and I think there's huge potential to explore with brass/glass.

So please don't think that I claim any ownership of this, because I don't, and I never have.

Peace.

[silkys]

:waving:Just one question .. where do you get brass mesh ?

[glassactcc]

I didn't read the whole thread on the "Champagne" bead. I don't know why no one pointed it out, or if anyone who was posting in that thread even new Sherry teaches it. I think it's so hard to "own" a technique such as this one. Why then don't others "own" using silver mesh, silver foil, copper wire, mica or anything else we put into our beads. I think materials should not be able to be "owned" by anyone. If that's the case, I guess I shouldn't be using glass to make beads. It's what the individual artist does with the materials that counts, just like Sherry's beads. Her beads as a whole are very recognizable as hers, not just the mesh she uses in them. All we are talking about is the bubbles. I think Chrissy's beads were very lovely and maybe the focus should be on the bead as a whole, and not just the brass mesh.

Styles are a whole different story. Signature beads as a whole, are what should be protected. Just my humble opinion8)


I would just like to know what your feelings are though about the fact that NO ONE said anything about this being a technique of Sherry's in the begining when Chrissy showed her beads and announced not only her tut but when it was coming out. How come no one came forward then to point this out? I just feel there is more to this than meets the eye and I for one know that Chrissy did not learn this from Sherry and came upon it like you did - all on her own since she nor I had ever seen beads like this I even (along with countless others) encouraged her to write the tut. Now having said this if this was a class technique that Sherry shows I am hoping that she does stop by to clear up whether or not ANYONE has permission to re-write the instructions. I for one know that this technique can be dangerous if the right percautions are not taken not only from fumes but from burns and that information NEEDS to be disclosed and I know that if it was Sherry she would have let her students know about the hazards up front.
I do love the beads made by this technique I think there are other issues at hand that are surrounding this tutorial.

[chrissij]

I STILL wanna' know how she encases coral.

[glassactcc]

By the way Sherry, I didn't think you were claiming it as your own. I was just pointing out what others were claiming.

[SunDoorBeads]

So, has anyone said, "Now you cant write your tut, Chrissy". - Renee
Would you feel welcome to spend the time and effort to write one now that this mess has gone on- even having it seem that fingers were being pointed at you for copying???? Come one you would not feel it was even worth it anymore- Guys this is all about being decent to one another not natural curiosity about how something is done- If Miriam had posted the bead with no info it would have just made it that much more intriguing because people would really want to know how it was done then. I believe that experimentation is crucial in our art and anyone who can figure it out on their own should be commended but to expose something when you have even admitted seeing the other person's beads and there being an open thread in multiple locations about a tutorial that just doesnt sound like good commrodery (spelled wrong I'm sure) to me. I was once flamed for figuring out Michael Barley's tech on my own and I did not even tell how it was made only responded when someone asked if I had taken his class I said no and I was flamed- so there you go why should he get more respect than Chrissy?

[Sherry]

By the way Sherry, I didn't think you were claiming it as your own. I was just pointing out what others were claiming.

I'm cool, Cynthia!:wave:

[Miriam]

People are reading what the like to read. They read more then there is.

Sherry showed what brass can do, nothing more, nothing less. I think it is good to give someone credit if you learned it from her/him. I didn't figure out myself how brass mesh reacted and that is why I mentioned Sherry's class.

I also said I remembered the brass mesh when I saw Christina's beads.
I didn't even know Christina was writing a tutorial, how should I know. I don't have the time to stroll all over forums. I look in the Gallery and that's it. Only today I learned she is writing a tutorial and explains the brass mesh.

I am not selling a tutorial and I believe people should think for them selves. Warnings about ventilation is not a thing I should point out, for me that is logical. You always take care of a good ventilation.

Believe what you think, I can't stop people reading more in words then there is.

[AKDesigns]

Someone just stumbled on this technique a few months ago in this thread:
http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132018&highlight=brass

Maybe that's where Chrissy got the idea? Maybe not. It's nothing new though.

[SunDoorBeads]

I didn't read the whole thread on the "Champagne" bead. I don't know why no one pointed it out, or if anyone who was posting in that thread even new Sherry teaches it. I think it's so hard to "own" a technique such as this one. Why then don't others "own" using silver mesh, silver foil, copper wire, mica or anything else we put into our beads. I think materials should not be able to be "owned" by anyone. If that's the case, I guess I shouldn't be using glass to make beads. It's what the individual artist does with the materials that counts, just like Sherry's beads. Her beads as a whole are very recognizable as hers, not just the mesh she uses in them. All we are talking about is the bubbles. I think Chrissy's beads were very lovely and maybe the focus should be on the bead as a whole, and not just the brass mesh.

Styles are a whole different story. Signature beads as a whole, are what should be protected. Just my humble opinion8)

That is what the tutorial of Chrissy's was about the Sparkle Balls and those included the Gold Champagne Bubbles this was a tutorial that was going to cover many aspects of her Signature Bead. That is why this saddens me so I spent hours with her on the computer while she was designing and coming up with her signature style. I agree about materials they are out there for everyone which is why certain comments on this thread have hit me so hard.
Thank you for being opened minded and seeing all sides.

[SunDoorBeads]

Yeah, just think......hmmmmm, I think you know what I'm thinking. Been there.

Are you talking about murrini now Renee cuz I have never COPIED or REVEALED anything you have ever done. My murrini is original and I think you are just miffed cuz someone else came on the scene. I have never even purchased your murrini to copy off from. Please keep this topic to what it is about this issue if you have a problem with me personally PM me which BTW you have never done.

[tracidawn78]

Are you talking about murrini now Renee cuz I have never COPIED or REVEALED anything you have ever done. My murrini is original and I think you are just miffed cuz someone else came on the scene. I have never even purchased your murrini to copy off from. Please keep this topic to what it is about this issue if you have a problem with me personally PM me which BTW you have never done.

But it's all relevant, Michelle. Everyone accuses everyone else of copying all the time. You made a post a while back in the bathroom about someone stealing your color scheme, and it was very obvious, at least to me, that you were talking about murrini. I put 2 and 2 together and knew it had to be about Rene. It's the nature of what we do and what we work with. There's only so many color schemes you can make a striped murrini with. Hell, I made up an assload of murrni and didn't look at anyone else's at all. Then Lori came onto the murrini scene, and there was you, Rene & Lori all doing it. I even had business cards printed up to hand out at the gathering because I was going to start selling murrini. I then looked at what I had made and said you know... this looks like everything that Rene and Feng makes. I'm going to be accused of copying. So I said screw it. I now have a bucket full of awesome little murrini chips that I don't know what to do with because I didn't want to be accused of copying.

I think Chrissy copied Anouk's style of round bead with murrini and stringer and her font. People think Anouk copied the copper mesh from Sherry. I've copied beads made by almost every single one of you. And now we have Miriam who copied "champagne bubbles" from Chrissy, who copied it from Natsprat, who copied it from Sherry, who copied it from George Bush, who copied it from Tom Cruise, who copied it from God. Let's face it, it's HARD to be innovative anymore. So much has been done! There is almost nothing you can make now that won't make people think "oh that looks like it was inspired by xxx". Miriam saw the beads from Chrissy but knew nothing about the tutorial. What's done it done.

It's the risk you take by posting your beads and techniques.

[chrissij]

who copied it from Tom Cruise, who copied it from God.

Now, now, now...Tom's of the Scientology faith. ;)

[shawnette]

:waving:Just one question .. where do you get brass mesh ?
Michael's, Joanne's, Walmart, Ace, etc. etc.

[SunDoorBeads]

I hope Chrissy will continue with her tutorial and I hope that each and everyone who purchases it appreciates the time and effort that went into it she truly spent weeks and weeks perfecting the whole bead not just the brass aspect of it. That is my peace and I will bow out now.

[Carols Glass]

I hope Chrissy will continue with her tutorial and I hope that each and everyone who purchases it appreciates the time and effort that went into it she truly spent weeks and weeks perfecting the whole bead not just the brass aspect of it. That is my peace and I will bow out now.


I know I will!

[Carols Glass]

But it's all relevant, Michelle. Everyone accuses everyone else of copying all the time. You made a post a while back in the bathroom about someone stealing your color scheme, and it was very obvious, at least to me, that you were talking about murrini. I put 2 and 2 together and knew it had to be about Rene. It's the nature of what we do and what we work with. There's only so many color schemes you can make a striped murrini with. Hell, I made up an assload of murrni and didn't look at anyone else's at all. Then Lori came onto the murrini scene, and there was you, Rene & Lori all doing it. I even had business cards printed up to hand out at the gathering because I was going to start selling murrini. I then looked at what I had made and said you know... this looks like everything that Rene and Feng makes. I'm going to be accused of copying. So I said screw it. I now have a bucket full of awesome little murrini chips that I don't know what to do with because I didn't want to be accused of copying.

I think Chrissy copied Anouk's style of round bead with murrini and stringer and her font. People think Anouk copied the copper mesh from Sherry. I've copied beads made by almost every single one of you. And now we have Miriam who copied "champagne bubbles" from Chrissy, who copied it from Natsprat, who copied it from Sherry, who copied it from George Bush, who copied it from Tom Cruise, who copied it from God. Let's face it, it's HARD to be innovative anymore. So much has been done! There is almost nothing you can make now that won't make people think "oh that looks like it was inspired by xxx". Miriam saw the beads from Chrissy but knew nothing about the tutorial. What's done it done.

It's the risk you take by posting your beads and techniques.

Ain't THAT the truth!

[theglasszone]

I love this look. De, I too read the gallery thread...Sometimes things just happen. Sometimes no one is at fault...SOMETIMES! Oh, and by the way De, this isn't directed at you. I just know you knew what was going on in the Gallery...

If I may...a few thoughts, some pertinent to this thread, some regarding glass work in general:

Cynthia - thank you! I didn't figure you were directing this at me personally...we were of like minds here and this is obviously a much better location to have this discussion. It's important to everyone, even those not directly involved or impacted.

Reminder: If it were not for those so long ago who braved life and limb to share the ever-so-well protected secrets of the island of Murano with the world, the art of glass and lampworking specifically would not be what we know of it today, and in theory, may well have become extinct!

As far as this particular technique goes, although it may be that lots of people knew of it's existence for some time - whether being told of/taught it in a class setting, word-of-mouth or simply stumbling onto it by themselves - I suspect no particular publication previously existed before Chrissy's announcement that she was writing a tut about it. That being said, I can understand Chrissy's disappointment that it's been presented by Miriam in this thread, but since there's lots more to it than simply using brass mesh (where to find it, how to apply it, how thick to encase it, how to heat to evoke the effect, troubleshooting and most importantly SAFETY PRECAUTIONS!), I encourage you, Chrissy my friend, to move forward with your tutorial as I'm sure lots of people will be happy to get it from you! I don't know Miriam personally but I want to believe in my heart of hearts she never intended to do you any harm! Please, please - march on with your tutorial!

Regarding sharing of knowledge, here's a link to a thread originally posted by Linda Campbell (Thank You, Linda!) - along with a pertinent article by Dick Lehman - which impacted my personal perspective immensely! I think it's very important reading:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82265

Regarding technique, design, ownership and similar topics in general, here are a few very informative and insightful threads:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94230&highlight=design+technique
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114748&highlight=design+technique

Clearly, these are topics well worth discussing and debating. Obviously, not everyone is going to agree, but above all, I'll close with a portion from "Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam" which my mother regularly recited to me as a child. It has held me steadfast throughout my life as a reminder to think very carefully about what you write and what you say:

"The Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it."

I wish you Peace~
De

[SunDoorBeads]

Okay I am sorry I just read TraciDawns post( I am postin and running around after my 4yr old) - first of all I have never come out and said I feel like someone is copying my murrini or pointed fingers- I brought up color scheme for a reason and I was kindly told that with the same color palette this is bound to happen I left it alone and that was the end I realized that there was more to murrini making than color but you dont know the whole story so please stick to the facts-
I am sorry that you feel you can't sell your murrini that is not my, nor Renee nor Lori's fault I feel no fear out of someone coming onto the scene. Everyone has a little differnt hand even Chrissy and I have diffent styles so please dont bring me into the equation there because I will never be the one to accuse you of copying. I admire Lori and Kims murrini like I do Renee's I also love De's murrini I guess that because i make it and sell it people think I can't respect and like someone elses with out being viewed as someone looking to steal another's secerets- Believe me I have more inspiration from my own life and ideas stirring around to need to go after someone elses. I hope you do pursure your murrini if that is where your heart leads you. Again I think that this hurts me about the tutorial because it was more than the brass it was her sharing alot of information on her signature bead and how to make it. Tracidawn you are welcome to have your opinion of me and to write about it but if there is ever a subject that you do not have complete knowledge of please PM me and give me the respect of hearing my side before you post publicly. Thank you all so much!

[SunDoorBeads]

Wow De I love your words I hold a great deal of respect for you and your work as well as Cynthia's I too believe that this thread holds onto a lot of other issues and I for one intend to push Chrissy to put the tutorial out there as I feel she has a wealth of information to share. You are a great person who has helped me to stay grounded through this and to see what truly should be done here and that is to support my friend as she moves forward with this amazing written tutorial!! Many Happy Wishes to all my Lampworking friends!!!

[SunDoorBeads]

I think everyone here should read post #7 of this link that De left us I just did and it hit me like a TON of bricks- It is true and very much what our art is about as De said without the people brave enough to have passed this art on we would not be here.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...sign+technique

[Kevan]

So...it's everyone's responsibility to scour the forums, every thread, to see if someone is already doing a technique that you stumbled on all by yourself and thought you would write a tutorial about?

Anyone who has been working with metals in glass, with meshes, would find out this bubble reaction happens with brass. Saying they stole the technique and are trying to pass it off as their own is like saying someone stole the technique of gravity moving melted glass or EDP will devit other glass it's touching.

BTW, it's a neat technique and I intend to try it.;-)

[shawnette]

And post #8.

[theglasszone]

Thank you Michelle but my words - and those of others - are shared with the greatest respect and intentions for the benefit of everyone.

And, for some reason, your linkie isn't workin'! I think you're referring to the post of Anglina analogizing footprints and history...Post #7 in this thread:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94230&highlight=design+technique

Please give Chrissy a warm, encouraging hug from me.

De

[Libby L.]

Copying murrini's? Are you kidding me? Sorry any murrini is fair game. I learned the types of murrinis being sold all over the place YEARS ago.
There are a limited number of color combinations that can be done because of the nature of the glass. Some colors "stick" better than others, some colors work better with others, etc....
I did my peace sign murrini over two years ago and never had seen anyone making them, then all of a sudden I see several others making it..you think I own that...hardly.
No one owns murrini styles or color combinations! I have not seen one unique murrini being sold yet.
Now take those murrinis and make them face canes or part of an elaborate cane like Loren Stump, or Luci Weir then you have a cane unique to that artist.

Traci you get those murrini's out on your Esty shop and sell away!

Off my soap box and sorry for the interuption.

[Flame Crazy]

Lovely bead, thanks for the tut. Hopefully all the drama will subside and we can all show our rockin' beads made with this technique.

[SunDoorBeads]

Libby I agree please dont think I dont!!!! I actually feel the same way you do!!!! that is why I said it is all in the hand I make watermelon slices cuz I found a candy that mimics murrini which is actually italian candy and that is where I first started- Now you can imagine my suprise the first time I was accused of copying!!!! Murrini is ancient and owned by no one!!!! I told Tracidawn that she should get her stuff out there!!!! Just dont bring my name into the reason you arent doing it cuz I twisted no ones arm!!!!
Dont you love that cane of the Lords Prayer by Loren Stump he has always been my inspiration!!!!

[glassactcc]

I wonder if we will ever get a tutorial on that:lol:



Dont you love that cane of the Lords Prayer by Loren Stump he has always been my inspiration!!!!

[Libby L.]

I wonder if we will ever get a tutorial on that:lol:

Snort..good one.

[SunDoorBeads]

I will De she can use all the hugs she can get!!! I love it here and I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion!!! The way you write though has the same effect on me that my sister patting my head when I am angry does lol. It helps me keep things into prespective!!!!!

[tracidawn78]

My words and intentions have been misinterpreted.

lol, I wasn't looking for a pity party about my murrini. I don't think I've ever even brought it up on the forums before now. I was just using it as an example of what COULD be interpreted as copying. I was pointing out that there is a very fine line between copying, inspiration, and coming up with something all on your own. I used my murrini as an example. I THOUGHT I came up with cool patterns and color combos all on my own. I tested it on some beads and thought I had some badass stuff. Then I look to see what Feng, Jet Age, and Lori have got going on and thought oh shit, it looks like I copied. No one accused me of copying. No one has even seen my murrini except for my gathering buds that I gave little samples to. No one accused me of it, I was just pointing out that I feared that someone might accuse me had I gone to sell it, which made me re-think my whole murrini plan. This could very well be what Miriam did, except she went forward with it whereas I am a chicken. She says she didn't see the tutorial announcement, only the pics Chrissy posted.

It's the same deal here. And Chrissy & Michelle, please re-read my posts. The copying issue was said tongue in cheek. I thought that was clear when I mentioned Tom Cruise and God. Let me rephrase... I am not accusing you of copying Anouk's rounds/photos/font... I'm saying that it could possibly be interpreted as though you did, because you have to admit that they all look really similar. Only you know if you did or did not. I'm not calling you out, I was giving another example that related to YOU on this issue. You can keep your post in the paid tutorial section about me accusing you of copying if you'd like, but that's not what I meant.

And Michelle... I didn't realize I had to PM all sources and people involved in a thread before I give my opinions and interpretations. If the going back & forth between you & Renee had nothing to do with a post you made in the bathroom about color schemes, then oops, my bad. But surely you can see how I came to that conclusion.

Let's face it, folks. People are always on the defensive about copying, whether it be colors, bead styles, murrini, tutorials, whatever. It's the nature of what we do. We share information on these forums. If you post a picture of something "new and unique" then you should expect it to be dissected, copied, and discussed. I've got a whole pile of beads that are my shitty interpretations of something I saw on the forums. I don't sell them, but that's my choice. It's a touchy subject and not everyone is going to agree.

Any Libby - have I told you lately that I love you?

[SunDoorBeads]

OMG Cynthia you made me spit coffee all over the living room and my 4yr old was laughing hysterically thank you!!!!!

[SunDoorBeads]

Okies Tracidawn I have to apologize on my part about the comment I figured when you made the comment you had prior knowledge to a situation and was forming an opinion based on that- that was my fault for assuming that is why I said to PM me to get facts. I know that people here are generally considerate and respectful to each other and we all are here for one reason we love glass!!!! I do not expect everyone to like me or my work but I do want people to get to know me before they form opinions on me!! After that anything goes lol

[theglasszone]

No kidding, Michelle and Cynthia! I'd be an old man with a long gray beard by the time I had this one figured out! (Doesn't that conjure some scary mental images?) It would have to be as thick as the Bible, too! For right now, I'm just sticking with my idea to make Christmas Tree murrini and hope it doesn't look like something that belongs in a Charlie Brown comic strip...(http://boingboing.net/2005/11/09/replica-of-charlie-b.html) - check it out - pfffttt!!!

De

[SunDoorBeads]

Cynthia, my great grandparents worked for Stuben Glassworks in Corning, NY and I can only imagine the things that they saw- My great grandfather was in their development department and my great grandmother helped out where ever she was needed- including artifacts that came in and were used in display. I often wonder what she would have thought about Loren Stumps amazing work!!!!! Have you ever been to the Corning Glassworks Museum?

[SunDoorBeads]

De, you so do not want to see my first christmas tree attempt I simply dont have words for it!!!! it looks like a green blob with colored dots randomly placed!!! I have vowed never to try it again!!! I can't wait to see yours!!! I am working on a cool Halloween one but I am having trouble with reactions so I might have to mix my own color.

[Libby L.]

Traci right back at ya.

[Deb Hopeful Journeys]

Can I get in line for Traci's murrini! Please.

[Carols Glass]

My words and intentions have been misinterpreted.

lol, I wasn't looking for a pity party about my murrini. I don't think I've ever even brought it up on the forums before now. I was just using it as an example of what COULD be interpreted as copying. I was pointing out that there is a very fine line between copying, inspiration, and coming up with something all on your own. I used my murrini as an example. I THOUGHT I came up with cool patterns and color combos all on my own. I tested it on some beads and thought I had some badass stuff. Then I look to see what Feng, Jet Age, and Lori have got going on and thought oh shit, it looks like I copied. No one accused me of copying. No one has even seen my murrini except for my gathering buds that I gave little samples to. No one accused me of it, I was just pointing out that I feared that someone might accuse me had I gone to sell it, which made me re-think my whole murrini plan. This could very well be what Miriam did, except she went forward with it whereas I am a chicken. She says she didn't see the tutorial announcement, only the pics Chrissy posted.

It's the same deal here. And Chrissy & Michelle, please re-read my posts. The copying issue was said tongue in cheek. I thought that was clear when I mentioned Tom Cruise and God. Let me rephrase... I am not accusing you of copying Anouk's rounds/photos/font... I'm saying that it could possibly be interpreted as though you did, because you have to admit that they all look really similar. Only you know if you did or did not. I'm not calling you out, I was giving another example that related to YOU on this issue. You can keep your post in the paid tutorial section about me accusing you of copying if you'd like, but that's not what I meant.

And Michelle... I didn't realize I had to PM all sources and people involved in a thread before I give my opinions and interpretations. If the going back & forth between you & Renee had nothing to do with a post you made in the bathroom about color schemes, then oops, my bad. But surely you can see how I came to that conclusion.

Let's face it, folks. People are always on the defensive about copying, whether it be colors, bead styles, murrini, tutorials, whatever. It's the nature of what we do. We share information on these forums. If you post a picture of something "new and unique" then you should expect it to be dissected, copied, and discussed. I've got a whole pile of beads that are my shitty interpretations of something I saw on the forums. I don't sell them, but that's my choice. It's a touchy subject and not everyone is going to agree.

Any Libby - have I told you lately that I love you?

And I would like to say that it was the part about God that I was saying "ain't that the truth" to.

[glassactcc]

Oh, your welcome! I was good fur somthin' today:poke: I hope you didn't spit all over your 4yr old8-[


OMG Cynthia you made me spit coffee all over the living room and my 4yr old was laughing hysterically thank you!!!!!

[glassactcc]

No darn it. I haven't been anywhere fun:( Well, at least in awhile. That's a pretty cool history. The development department? I wonder what they did there.

Cynthia, my great grandparents worked for Stuben Glassworks in Corning, NY and I can only imagine the things that they saw- My great grandfather was in their development department and my great grandmother helped out where ever she was needed- including artifacts that came in and were used in display. I often wonder what she would have thought about Loren Stumps amazing work!!!!! Have you ever been to the Corning Glassworks Museum?

[mad hatter]

You know even though something is known by other beadmakers doesn't mean that someone that is new wouldn't appreciate a tutorial. Everyone is free to write tutorials about whatever. I am sure many newer beadmakers love the instructions. I buy tutorials on things I can't figure out on my owm like Sherry's Chaos technique. I buy tutorials on techniques that I enjoy, have a basic knowledge of, and want to improve more quickly than practice and self discovery offer like with Loco's dragon tut. And finally I buy tuts on things that are out of my scope of focus like Patient hands tut on Xmas ornaments. No one forces me to buy anything. I like to think that with the knowledge that I have I can judge what tut is benificial to my education. I also believe that if there was a critique area on tuts would be a great tool.Buyers could have annon. imput into that was guided by perhaps a code that each tut provided to the buyer to have a one, or perhaps 2 time with a time laps, access to critique area to impead fraudulent info. Over time much knowledge is gained and lost and gained again. Each person has a unique ability to connect and each of us connect to only those that inspire us. IMHO I think everyone should just go for it, but lets find a way to help people judge the value of these tutorials.

[elyart]

Yah-Dah, Yah-dah, Yah-dah....... Let's all be friends now and let the sharers share, the tuts be made, the lurkers lurk (uhm...) and the flames forever go bright.

CREATE! dammmit! 'nuf said.

[Juls]

We are only as original as our origins.

It is a blessing that we were fashioned to create.

[Tutti-frutti]

This bitchiness has to stop.
It actually turned me off a certain seller of frits and murrinis to ever go and visit their site.
Katja

[playswithfire104]

I can't find brass mesh. I tried habor freight, Ave hardware, and A C Moore. Any suggestions? I did get some brass wire maybe that will work.

[shawnette]

I can't find brass mesh. I tried habor freight, Ave hardware, and A C Moore. Any suggestions? I did get some brass wire maybe that will work.

Michael's, Joanne's, Hobby Lobby, Pearl...

ETA: Harbor Freight doesn't carry mesh. Ace does, but they're independently owned so stock varies from store to store.

[playswithfire104]

Thanks. We don't have any Hobby Lobby's or Pearl's. I'll check Michaels and/or Joanne's when I can get out that way.

[Reenie]

Michael's is the same. They don't carry copper mesh either. I wish all stores would carry the same stuff!

[shawnette]

Lol. Michael's, Ace and Joanne's are the places I've gotten mine. Maybe I should pick up a stash, JIC.

[Megan]

I have found it online a couple places. Polymerclayexpress has it.. Looks like it is Paragona Wire Mesh.. They have copper too.

[JetAge Studio]

http://www.dickblick.com/products/amaco-wireform-mesh/

There's a few different opening sizes to choose from. Click on the thumbnails to get a closer look at them.

[playswithfire104]

Michael's is the same. They don't carry copper mesh either. I wish all stores would carry the same stuff!

I think mine carries copper mesh.

I wonder if Dick Blick has that brass mesh in their store? I can swing by tomorrow after work. I'm gonna play with the wire tonight.

[Ekkie]

Brass picture wire will also work - it doesn't have to be mesh to make the bubbles.

Jenn

[JetAge Studio]

I wonder if Dick Blick has that brass mesh in their store? I can swing by tomorrow after work. I'm gonna play with the wire tonight.

Yes, they do. See my post above, there's a link to the picts. :)

[playswithfire104]

I did see your post I was just wondering of it was only available online or if the store not to far from me would have it in stock.

I played around with the wire tonight and got some good results.

[Troll Lover]

I heard that brass wire, foil and mesh do the same thing. It's about the brass :).

[motheroffire77]

Hi all, could you tell me where to get brass mesh...I cant seem to find any. thanks

[rverk47]

I hate to butt in I don't know who or if this technique belongs to somebody but I would sure like to know where you can get the mesh at..anybody!!

[Troll Lover]

http://www.dickblick.com/products/amaco-wireform-mesh/

There's a few different opening sizes to choose from. Click on the thumbnails to get a closer look at them.

You guys could read the whole thread of course ;), there are several suggestion on where to get this stuff :D.

[shawnette]

You guys could read the whole thread of course ;), there are several suggestion on where to get this stuff :D.

:|

[Pat]

Yeah wow. I went to Michaels and they don't have anything.

[squid]

I would bet a hobby shop would have it - a place that has models and stuff.

[lysa]

There are three Michaels within 30 miles of me. They carry different items. One of them did have the brass and copper mesh. It was the newer of the stores. I'd call around.....

[QuiteCuntrary]

Having a hell of a time finding local stores. Found these guys online:

http://www.smallparts.com/s?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=07MCMP4ES5QRN4Y2K6Q1&pf_rd_s=center-2&searchSize=25&field_material_browse=16414581&pf_rd_t=301&searchBinNameList=subjectbin%2Cmaterial_browse%2Cm anufacturer%2Citem_package_quantity%2Citem_shape%2 Cmeasurement_system%2Ctolerance_held%2Cbrandtextbi n%2Cenc-merchantbin%2Cavailability_class&refinementHistory=subjectbin%2Cmaterial_browse%2Cm anufacturer%2Citem_package_quantity%2Citem_shape%2 Cmeasurement_system%2Ctolerance_held%2Cbrandtextbi n%2Cenc-merchantbin%2Cavailability_class&searchKeywords=brass%20mesh&pf_rd_p=417978301&searchNodeID=16414131&pf_rd_i=0&searchRank=relevancerank&pf_rd_m=AIUBT5HP6PMAF&gclid=CK2ru_HRnJwCFRFWagodqHF0dw

[ladymeme123]

HOWACO sells copper mesh too...

http://howacoglass.com/metal_mesh.html

[playswithfire104]

The brass wire works too. I got brass wire at a hardware store and have had good results with it.

[Chau Nguyen T]

Yes, Michae's has it but you got to know where to look. They keeps it at a place to make sculpture like you make a mold to shape of something (like a face) by copper mesh then cover it with ceramic or clay. The stock girl will not know that if you ask them for copper mesh. So, go pass the clay or nimo clay section. It would be next to wood burner. I think the size is 8X8 (not sure forgot already) at $8.99 if you have 40% coupon, it helps and with this size you can make zillion beads (now, don't listen to me at this part.)

[Beadbug]

Please count me in on wanting to purchase YOUR method of creating beads. I for one am a tut ho and NEED instructions :) Good luck with what ever you decide.

[Li]

I am a newbe lampworker from Sweden and I discover this technic before I saw any beads with it. I was testing with different metals in beads just for fun, and loved the bubbles from brass. I was using foil and wire.

I just mean that no one can own this technic...


Hugs!!!

Anneli

[j2canoe]

The plumbing section at Lowe's or Home Depot is a goldmine of mesh. Look for the strainers in the drain section. The brass mesh in the little strainers comes in different sizes and can be easily removed. These also work for sifting frit and applying enamels and micas. Everything old is, at some time or another, new again!

[theglasszone]

Good idea, Joan!

Just a reminder, though - when getting Copper or Brass (or even Silver) Mesh, be sure that the product is 100% thru-and-thru of what you're looking for. There is "Copper Mesh" product at Michael's in the Scrap Book Section, but some of it is only "plated" and this definitely doesn't work well in Hot Glass applications!!!! Yuck!

De

[silkys]

I couldnt find any brass mesh in this dinky town ....... TILL .. I went to the music store and bought some screens they use in Pipes . You might want to try a tobaco shop :)

[theglasszone]

Pfffttt! I haven't had to buy one of those for years...good thinking, Janelyn!

De

[Feldt's Glass]

I have quite a bit of the brass mesh if anyone can't find it.

[char]

:poke:What size? I would like to know if the size is the same size as the sterling mesh? Or is it the tightly woven mesh?So if anyone knows let me know a pic.would help

[Barbara Russell]

http://www.dickblick.com/products/amaco-wireform-mesh/

There's a few different opening sizes to choose from. Click on the thumbnails to get a closer look at them.


This is where I got mine -- and it works very nicely! The smallest size at the bottom of the list produces tiny bubbles. This stuff is FUN! Encase well and play.

[AndyPan]

Just a quick note if anyone is looking for the brass mesh at Michael's. The store close to home recently reorganized the store, and were no longer carrying the metal meshes at all. The store near to a friend's house, abut 45 minutes away from my home, still had the old setup, and still had the metal meshes available. However, it looks like even that store is clearing them out. I picked up the very last package of brass mesh they had, and it was on clearance. So if you happen to find it at you local Michael's, snag it right away! It's only a roughly 14x18 sheet I think, but that will last me forever. I experimented with it a little bit, and it does bubble nicely, but as I was doing it from memory, I was heating it too much and kept having the bubbles break the surface. Nice fireworks tho. :-) Will definitely have to play with it some more.

[jawjee]

Hi there, I posted this bead back in January 09, back then I was trying to make a metal skeleton for my robot and was plugging in bits of watch works. I was really ANNOYED at the bubbles :lol:. My opinion is that the rods in the legs were stainless steel, could very well have had grease on them. I don't know.

And yes, there's fireworks if the flame hits thin brass. spit spat kind of stuff. Scared the crap outta me at the time :shtf:

Personally I think it comes down to application. Is it a bead that tells your story? Get a handle on the technique then apply it the way YOU want to, for the greatest personal satisfaction that is.

152582

[clan tabby]

Georgie - that robot is seriously & fabulously cool!

[Birdsonawire]

Just my two cents... but I am wondering if a person could take some fine gauge wire and crochet it and then use it in some of these techniques.... I think I might try it. I picture small doily type patterns plunged and encased.;)

Oh.. and that Robot is wonderful! Looks like those watches I have in the watch graveyard finally have a purpose!