Encasing Frit question

[MagpieGlass]

Updated: Thanks everyone for your replies and guidance.

I'll be increasing my stock of 96 colors (currently clear and chalcedony) and

I will definitely be buying Val Cox's book before I delve too deeply into the guilty pleasures of frit. If I had any reservations on how great a book it is, the garage sale thread definitely quashed those!!

Laura

_________________________________________


Burning question from a Noob. I did a quick search and didn't see any kind of answer.

I realize that the rule of thumb is don't mix COEs but the hard-cold reality is that most of the cool frit blends sold by our LE Vendors are COE 92-96 and most of the LE members work in COE 104 (or 90 or 33 with a few in 96).

My quandry. I've purchased samples of quite of few COE 92-96 "furnace glass" frit blends. Some I'm liking very much.

I have successfuly used these blends on COE 104 and 90 following the 5% rule. No cracking.

Here is the crunch point: If I would want to encase a COE 96 frit ... what are the guidelines.

(a) don't ever encase unless the whole bead is 96 COE.

(b) Encase in the same glass COE as the base bead

(c) Encase with the same COE as the frit.

Hope that makes sense.

Please don't bash me for the whole mixing COE debate. I've been lurking for close to a year now and know that it is a very touchy topic with many members. I'm just looking for thoughts on guidance from those who are orney like me and don't play by the numbers 100% of the time.

Any help you can give would be appreciated.

Laura

[SteveWright]

There are other consideration before you come to a decision on what to do.

The first one is the shape of the final bead and the location of the incompatible glass. Loren Stump had us making 104 COE inclusions to be encased in 109-114 COE Schott glass. The key here was the paperweight shape is very forgiving. One of those inclusions mounted on the surface of the Schott glass could easily pop off. Round beads would have a better chance than flat or free form beads, melted in may be better than stringers proud of the surface.

The second consideration is the use of the final product. I sell my stuff, so my reputation goes out with every one of my pieces. I don't mix COEs.

You mention no cracking. One of the beads in our collection was purchased from a very well known lampworker. After two or three years we found it in pieces in it's storage container.

Whatever you decide to do, be sure to post some photos of your work. There are many of the best lampworkers here, so I am also interested in their thoughts on this topic.

Steve

[MagpieGlass]

Thanks for the insight. As a Noob, none of my "beads" have been around long enough to stand the test of time. But like I said, I've played it safe so far with light surface decoration only. Wanted feedback before I delve any deeper.

Based on your info. I need to invest in an inventory of COE 96 glass for my "frit play" if I want to sell any of it. Since I'm falling in love with Gaffer ... this isn't actually a bad thing. If only the silver glasses would reformulate to 96 COE instead of 104 I'd gladly ditch 104 for 96!!!

How do you feel about the inclusion of brass wire & mesh, silver wire, mesh & leaf, gold leaf and wire, aventurine, et al. These hardly can be all COE compatible but are used freely in designs. Wouldn't they lend themselves to the same cracking issues over time???

Sorry just my analytical mind churning through the grist mill. Never took Chemistry in my school years. Didn't think I needed it ... now I wish I had. Live and learn.

[CelesteK]

I haven't played with frit too much yet. I use the 104 COE and the furnace glass frit. I've been following the instructions in Val Cox's frit book where I make a tiny core of white add a little bit of frit and encase in clear and then put frit on the surface of the clear. I can't speak to longevity because none of these beads are over a year old. I also haven't sold any of them. They are mostly in my jewelry box as earrings and I'm wearing them to see how they hold up.

Celeste

[DesertDreamer]

I've been messing with frit since Val Cox and Carolyn (BlueHeeler) started all the trouble 7-8 years ago. :D Obviously compatibility works best within the same COE.

However, when I do mix, I always encase with glass that's compatible with the base COE (if I do encase), and I strive to be certain that there are 'holes' in the frit layer so the base and encasing glass can touch all over, in a lacy sort of way.

[MagpieGlass]

I've got you. That is 'kind of' what I thought in all logistics. Same with aventurine, metal inclusions, mica and all that stuff.

Thanks so much for the reply.

I'm thinking for all safety and saleablity I need to invest in more 96. Hee, hee just making my order bigger for when the new Blue Chalcedony comes available.

Gosh I'm such a Glass Ho.

[Elizabeth Beads]

I think there is more forgiveness than people realize between CoEs. Olympic Color Rods states on their website that you can use up to 20% furnace glass (which is what most of the fritmakers use) on the surface of a 104 bead. I have gone by that rule and it has worked well for me. A while ago I accidentally picked up a rod of Bullseye and made round beads with 96 frit on the surface. I'm keeping them as a science experiment, but so far they are sound and quite pretty.

Beadmakers have been making twisites with Raku and 104 glass and melting them in to their 104 beads for years. I think that you could safely encase a bit of furnace cane frit on a 104 base and encase with 104 clear. But if you want to play it 100% safe, then use one of the many lines of 96 cane with the frit. I love Uroboros and Gaffer, both have a nice palette of colors to choose from.

[MagpieGlass]

Thanks eRose.

I've read it isn't all based on COE it also has to do with viscosity (spelling?). I feel like I need a BS in Chemistry to figure it all out.

I'm kinda thinking, scale back my 104 supply and branch into 96. I'm really liking the Gaffer glasses I've worked with and they are a great group of people to deal with at GafferUSA.

I'm primarily a Boro and BE studio. Got torching because I was in love with Boro affects. But I like the "soft" Sliver glasses too.

[MagpieGlass]

Hi CelesteK,

Thanks for your info too. Didn't mean to breeze over you. I'd love to have Val's book. But right now it is $35 in glass or $35 on a book that covers one aspect of my bead making. It's on the "want" list, but it is pretty close to the bottom right now.

Too many wants and too little money.

[Shrimp]

when the new Blue Chalcedony comes available.

Hi Laura ~ I'm glad that you posted this thread, because I'm getting ready to do alot of frit beads in the near future. I have started investing in 96 coe glass to go along with my new HUGE stash of frits!

My question to you. Would you be kind enough to elaborate on the new Blue Chalcedony? I totally love the CiM Chalcedony! Is it similar to that, or is it like the Chalcedony frit that is available these days? ~ Aleta

[MagpieGlass]

Hi Aleta,

Your welcome on posting the thread. There is such a great knowledge base out here on LE that I wanted to get some opinions. I'm with you ... I'll be investing in more 96.

The Blue Chalcedony is Gaffer G1095. Deb Batten has pictures of it in the Gaffer Chalcedony G109 thread (towards the last two pages). This is Gaffer's newest version of Raku. I believe this version has a blue base. ETA for USA purchase is +/- 2 weeks. I'm saving my pennies, nickels, dimes...

I'm not famililar with CiMs Chalcedony. I'd avoided 96 until Gaffer Chalcedony sucked me in like a black hole. Totally obsessed with the color. I'm mostly a 90 and 33 studio. I learned on 104 and keep some of that around because of the gorgeous silver colors. I started with fusing for Metal Clay inclusion (which was 90) and then feel in love with Boro and found that I still really like BE in the flame and most of it is "fusible". So it is a win-win when I find a color I really, really like!!

[MagpieGlass]

A while ago I accidentally picked up a rod of Bullseye and made round beads with 96 frit on the surface. I'm keeping them as a science experiment, but so far they are sound and quite pretty.

In my trap of a mind, would 92-96 furnace glass tend to play more friendly with BE (90) than Moretti and others (at 104) since it is "closer" to the same CoE???

Any thoughts??

Laura

[SteveWright]

Kate Drew-Wilkinson made instructional videos using Spectrum 96 glass. She cut it into strips and used it like rods. She makes spectacular tree and aquarium beads.

I found a link:
http://www.katedrew-wilkinson.com/beads.htm

Steve

[MagpieGlass]

That is so funny you mention that. I started with fusing before torching. I use BE cut into strips for making leaves because I like some of their swirled colors alot!!

The only 96 glass I have right now (besides lots of frit) is 1/4 kilo Gaffer Chalcedony, 1/4 kilo Gaffer Clear and some freebees the Gaffer ladies sent along with my order for me to play with.

They have several drool worthy colors on my "wish" list: Chameleon, Weimareiner Brown, Mushroom ... I really like "off" white colors.

Hope to place an order with them mid-October.

Thanks for the info on the video. I'll have to go check it out.

Laura
Kate Drew-Wilkinson made instructional videos using Spectrum 96 glass. She cut it into strips and used it like rods. She makes spectacular tree and aquarium beads.

I found a link:
http://www.katedrew-wilkinson.com/beads.htm

Steve

[playswithfire104]

From what I understand goldstone is compatable with most soft glass because it has a high copper content. I have used goldstone (blue, green and red) with everything from wine bottles to 104 with no issues.

Along the same lines, I think frit made from furnace glass (I think) has a higher lead content that makes it more compatable with close COE's.

I don't know for sure but I'm guessing that metals - like silver, brass, gold etc., wire, leaf, mesh etc would follow the same logic.

As for frit I have heard that 96 would work better with BE being only 6 off instead of 8 for 104.

[MagpieGlass]

Thanks Nancy.

Hopefully one day I can buy Val Cox's book and have her wealth of frit information. Maybe I can ask for it for Xmas!!

[lunamoonshadow]

Hi CelesteK,

Thanks for your info too. Didn't mean to breeze over you. I'd love to have Val's book. But right now it is $35 in glass or $35 on a book that covers one aspect of my bead making. It's on the "want" list, but it is pretty close to the bottom right now.

Too many wants and too little money.


GET THE BOOK.
Seriously--I waited way too long to get mine--I'd say it's worth $100 or more in "glass" easily--just for the information in it--in how much MORE you'll learn about what you can DO with your frit & how you can use it to make your glass do MORE stuff--you'll be able to make some clear & white do SO MUCH MORE after you read Val's book--it's worth every penny!
(and I've been messing around with frit for a long time ;))

[Beckah]

Val's book is fantastic! I could not believe how much I learned and it answered questions that I didn't even know I had.

As for goldstone, check out Sarah Hornik's tutorial. It is filled with fantastic information and lots of tutorials on using goldstone.

[Starrr]

I've used frits on my beads since the beginning of the "Frit Frenzy" on 104 and 90 COE glass with no problems. I use them with silver and gold foil, twisties, pressed beads, rounds and encased. I also use a lot of Raku in the same ways. My beads go directly into the kiln glowing pretty well after a thorough final heating in the flame. I just don't worry about it anymore after so many years of not having any problems.

The only problems that I recall having were using rather wide stripes of Raku on Sage and the original Red Roof Tile. The pressed beads split along the mandrel and vertically, some after a few days and some after several months. The rounds made out of RRT didn't break for almost a year and the cracks were almost diagonal, very strange. Since I've made thousands of beads using the same and similar techniques on many other base glasses with no problems I'm venturing to guess the problem was the incompatibility of these two base glasses and not the mixing of the COE's.

[Reenie]

I use 96 COE frit on almost all my 104 coe beads. I encase, I swirl, I do almost everything. Haven't really had any cracking issues. I usually roll the frit so that it covers the bead and then melt in and roll once more depending on what Im trying to achieve. No problems yet!!!