Japanese torch

[WhiskerWood]

Anyone know where to get one here in North America?

[dogmaw]

If no one has one you can buy, let me know and I will order you one when I order the glass. :)

[WhiskerWood]

If no one has one you can buy, let me know and I will order you one when I order the glass. :)

ooooooOOOOOOooooo...
Would it be a huge PITA to find out how much the torch and related shipping costs would be???

[SuzyQ]

Nicole is the thinking here that it would be a better torch for Satake? What does one look like? Where can I find info in English?

[AZ Joolz]

I just saw that Michael Barley has some gorgeous Satake beads on ebay and he mentions a Japanese torch...perhaps he will chime in?

[WhiskerWood]

It is a very strange looking torch, it sits upright and the flame comes out the top...
You can kind of see them in the pictures on this website:
http://www.thebeadsite.com/hides01.htm

From what I hear the flame is a lot cooler and works Satake perfectly...

[WhiskerWood]

I found another link on the site with all of the info. and prices, I answered my own question LOL

http://www.thebeadsite.com/HIDESTR.htm

I guess I am going to have to wait a while to buy one of these...
I can't spend $450 on a new torch right now...

[Janine]

Apparently hotheads are good on satake, and cheaper! You can borrow mine if you want.

[Nicker]

You just want another torch to add to your collection :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am working on finding these.

[SuzyQ]

I think I'll just turn down my minor and use only one concentrator :)

[WhiskerWood]

Apparently hotheads are good on satake, and cheaper! You can borrow mine if you want.

Cool thanks! :grin:

[WhiskerWood]

You just want another torch to add to your collection :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am working on finding these.

Yeah what's it to ya?? :p :lol:

[parisgal]

I have also been nosing around on the idea of Japanese torches -- I wanted something that would work in a small space, with less oxy needed. The Japanese torches have relatively small fans to push extra air through, so need for tanked or oxy concentrator!

However, I've heard that Kinari is going to be coming out with a new torch, soon. It is the same "bunsen burner" type top, but with a little side jet (a small arm low off one side, and then turns up, so the jet is pointing up) that allows you to get a fine pinpoint flame for detail work.

I may be the odd one out, but I will definitely be in the market for one of those when it's available!

[Shawn T]

I find this thread very interesting, anyone mind if I move it to the tech area so it doesn't get lost here? Never heard of these torches before, and am always interested in learning what else is out there.

Nicole is that ok with you?

[WhiskerWood]

No Problem Shawn, thanks for asking though :)

[Chuckie]

You may want to check to see what kind of fuel is used. Not all countries use propane as the primary lampworking fuel.

Char

[mackro]

Hi All,

I took Michael Barley's class last July, and watched him use Satake glass with a Mid-range. However, the flame has to be turned way down to a soft fluffy flame. The Satake glass will boil real fast.

He did have a Japanese torch, but didn't set it up. The advantage of that torch is that they only have to use an air pump (like you would have on a fish tank) along with the gas (don't remember what gas they use). The Japanese don't have much room for a large set up, so using the air pump is very convenient.

Since their flame is so soft, the glass the developed has a very low melting point.

Hope that helps some. Here is a link that gave me a lot of information:
http://www.jplampwork.com/a3index.htm

Happy torching,
Mack

[parisgal]

I believe the fuel is propane -- the person who mentioned the Kinari torch to me knew that I wanted to have something propane based.

[GlassyLady]

I believe that Japanese torch is simply a "Bunsen burner" widely used in science labs. There are a few sizes to them from small to extra large. Most of them don't need presurised air but use atmospheric oxy like HH. I think you can find one at every shop that sells scientific or lab aquipment.
Japanese law prohibits the use of oxy-gas systems for glass workers so they don't have a choice other then to use these lab burners. However, I think it is better to use an oxy-gas torch (for the extra oxygene and the ability to manipulate reducing/oxygenizing environment) on a very low flame.
Just my 2pence.
Galia

[parisgal]

I think you can find one at every shop that sells scientific or lab aquipment.
Japanese law prohibits the use of oxy-gas systems for glass workers so they don't have a choice other then to use these lab burners.

I hadn't thought about constructing your own, that's a good idea. But they do push extra air through the flame, with an aquarium type pump, like this

http://www.jplampwork.com/a3torch.htm

and here

http://www.thebeadsite.com/HIDESTR.htm

[Emiko]

I believe that Japanese torch is simply a "Bunsen burner" widely used in science labs. There are a few sizes to them from small to extra large. Most of them don't need presurised air but use atmospheric oxy like HH. I think you can find one at every shop that sells scientific or lab aquipment.
Japanese law prohibits the use of oxy-gas systems for glass workers so they don't have a choice other then to use these lab burners. Galia

Incorrect. Japanese burners use compressed air. Some torches have built-in compressor. Japanese law doesn't prohibit use of oxy-gas systems for glass workers, and there are lampworkers who use oxy burners including boro workers. It is just that using oxygen is harder than here due to housing situation (small, rented, etc.) and its high cost.

Arrow Springs may have some Japanese burners and air compressors. At least last year they did.

There are two types of them, "focused" and "bushy." It's just a matter of personal preference. Generally, Americans prefer "focused" because they are used to focused flame of oxy burners.

[Firelilly]

I've been in love with the notion of learning how to use Satake glass ever since I found out about lampwork, which in the scheme of things really wasn't all that long ago. I fell in love with the colors at first sight.

I found that A3 site and saw those torches some time ago. They were too pricey for me. Then I heard that the hothead would work pretty well with Satake. But then I knew I'd want to work with other glass as well, and from what I was reading the hothead seemed like it might not be enough torch for some of the other glass I wanted to try.

So I ended up going with a mini cc. For one thing it's within my budget. And it's my understanding that it is pretty easy to get a soft and bushy flame with the mini and that it has a large sweet spot to work in. That sounded like it might be the right way to go for working with Satake and still have enough torch when I wanted it for working with glass that's less soft. And I should be able, with enough oxy, to work some boro as well. Albeit at a slower pace than I would be able to with a more powerful torch.

I wish I could tell you that I had some practical experience with any of this. I don't! Because I still can't quite get off the ground with any of this. But I thought I'd throw this out there anyway since my interests have run along the same lines as those being discussed in the thread. And maybe someone who has worked with both a mini and satake glass will come along and chime in as to how well it worked.

Lil

[dogmaw]

I haven't used a mini, but I can say a minor and Satake go quite well together.

[Dale M.]

Seems to me the prices are pretty expensive for something that appears about equal to a hot head... Also Satake glass is supposed to take less heat so hot head would be ideal...

Dale

[cghipp]

I think the initial price is obviously much higher than a Hot Head, but the cost of using the torch would be much lower, and you wouldn't have the problem of frozen tanks, etc. that Hot Head users report.

I don't know if I would like having the flame come straight up. It seems like it might be harder to work comfortably. I suppose the flame isn't strong enough to work horizontally, or at an angle?

Courtney

Edited to fix error in first line!

[Islandgirl]

If you want more pictures check ou my site http://www.fireballbeeds.com/photos.html
once there click on Mount Fuji and then either the studio... shows picture of studio but the torch isn't lit or go to Satake and there are pictures of the furnaces etc... and people making beads.... using the traditional torch.

Lynne

[Dale M.]

I think the initial price is obviously much less than a Hot Head, but the cost of using the torch would be much lower, and you wouldn't have the problem of frozen tanks, etc. that Hot Head users report.



I don't think so.... Unless there is some translation or conversion on pricing that I am missing ..........

Check prices here....

http://www.jplampwork.com/a3torch.htm

Site says all prices are US DOLLARS.....

Dale

[cghipp]

I misspoke - I meant that the initial price is much HIGHER but the cost of operation is much lower. Sorry about that!

Courtney

[Dale M.]

I misspoke - I meant that the initial price is much HIGHER but the cost of operation is much lower. Sorry about that!

Courtney


Actually a HH on bulk propane is about the cheapest torch one can operate....

Dale

[cghipp]

I was referring to using the disposable canisters. I have seen a lot of warnings about using the Hot Head with bulk gas - about how the hoses/connections aren't made for long-term use and are very dangerous. You don't think that's a concern? (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically.)

Courtney

[Emiko]

I don't know if I would like having the flame come straight up. It seems like it might be harder to work comfortably. I suppose the flame isn't strong enough to work horizontally, or at an angle?

Yes, it's hot to work with the flame coming straight up. But some of the Japanese burners tilt to adjust an angle. Those that tilt are more powerful ones, I think.

[Dale M.]

I was referring to using the disposable canisters. I have seen a lot of warnings about using the Hot Head with bulk gas - about how the hoses/connections aren't made for long-term use and are very dangerous. You don't think that's a concern? (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically.)

Courtney

Nope not a concern..... IF you consider the number of hoses in use all over the world, and the liabilities a company would suffer from if somebody was injured in a failure... And the fact there has not been one reported failure.....

The hose I use is rated at 200psi maximum pressure (propane at 70 deg has a pressure of about 130psi) so its actually probably good for 300psi and the manufacturing specifications are that the ferrules that crimp hose on to barbed fittings are done at about 700psi, I am not the least bit concerned about a problem with hose.

And if you really look around there is only one person screaming about the danger, and he makes a lot of his own equipment and most of it looks dangerous to me....

Dale

[Kalera]

One thing that might be worth looking into is whether a Hot Head is too reducing for some of the Japanese colors because many of them reduce very easily... might not be a concern at all, but it would be good to know. Anyone checked this out?

I have used a Midrange with Satake and found the flame properties to be almost perfect for working with this glass... turned down to a very low, soft, bushy flame at extremely low pressures.

[LaVere]

Carlisle make many sizes of Bunsen burners. Their web site does not show them but their catalog discribes them. Many size and one four head model. Their 130 model seem just right. Stable flame and broad.
http://www.carlislemachine.com/

[dogmaw]

Kalera, I haven't had a problem with the HH being too reducing at all.