CIM Gunmetal - finish rubbing off? [Archive]

Judith Billig

2009-10-25, 12:45pm

I just worked the first time with CIM Gunmetal.

Hate how shocky it is - the rods are just exploding in the flame. I decided to anneal the rods now and that worked better.

Love love love the very even matte metallic effect. However, when I was cleaning the beads, I realised that the metallic finish wears off and leaves just black behind. I rubbed intentionally, and yes - you can simply rub it off with your finger! *shock*

Any ideas? Will it make a difference if I anneal the beads longer?
Was it a mistake to anneal the rods?
Do I always have to encase it? Will the effect even stay with encasing?
Is it one of the colors that you can't soak too long in water? I was soaking the mandrels approx. 30 minutes in soapy water.

Argh, I'm bummed. It was a very nice set. ](*,)

Thanks!

pinkcb

2009-10-25, 12:47pm

Well that's just craptastic. I just bought a pound of it and haven't tried it yet.

Judith Billig

2009-10-25, 12:52pm

Charlene - it's really a great glass (apart from the shocky-ness).
I'm sure I made something wrong - surely they wouldn't release a color where you can simply with your thumb rub of the finish.

Cabanlet

2009-10-25, 1:54pm

Hmmm, I have some focals made out of this, I will have to try and rub it off and see if my finish rubs off. that would suck!

Amy

villa design

2009-10-25, 2:13pm

I've just tried rubbing the leaves and focals I've made out of mine and it isn't rubbing off. Have you tried emailing Kathy? She's usually very responsive.

Judith Billig

2009-10-25, 3:18pm

It was only rubbing off fresh out of the soaking water.
The beads that are dry now, I can't rub it off any more. Weird!

squid

2009-10-25, 3:21pm

that IS weird.

NMLinda

2009-10-25, 3:24pm

Thanks for posting - I thought it was just me. I thought I hadn't 'blushed' it enough to get the finish on some of the beads I made. Others were just fine. My rods weren't shocky, though.

Linda

Elizabeth Beads

2009-10-25, 7:39pm

My rods aren't shocky either and the finish isn't rubbing off. But the first rod I tried, I got a shiny silver finish by striking (not reducing). Haven't been able to get that again, just the matte metallic. Ah well, it is called Gunmetal.

Judith Billig

2009-10-25, 7:43pm

Yeap, seems I shouldn't have put it in soapy water.
Now where they all dry, it doesn't rub off any more.
New try tomorrow :( This time without soaking.

AKDesigns

2009-10-25, 11:32pm

So that means you can't get any soapy water on a bracelet made with Gunmetal beads when you wash your hands?

Reenie

2009-10-26, 12:13am

I just think Judith took a ride to the twilight zone!

Judith Billig

2009-10-26, 12:21am

Baaawahhahha ... :)

Guess it depends how long you wash your hands ;) I wouldn't wear it while participating on Survivor Samoa though (have you seen how wrinkled their hands and feet were after 6 days of torrential rainfall?).

I will take a few of the beads and soak them tomorrow again in soapy water - first for a minute, then a bit more, and more ... until I can recreate (or not). I can't use them in any way any more, as the finish is partly gone.

sunflower33

2009-10-26, 2:41am

I took some of my Gunmetal beads and washed them with soap and water... and yup.... omg.... the finish rubs off. I didn't have to soak them, just get them wet and soapy for a few seconds. When I rubbed hard with my fingers the finish disappeared.
:???:
and I've sold so many gunmetal beads to customers already!

suzanne

2009-10-26, 2:53am

ow that sucks that the finish is wearing off, weird though that it only happends when the bead is wet

Judith Billig

2009-10-26, 3:07am

That's no good news.
Thanks for testing and confirming my own results.
I don't think i will make another bead with it and for sure i can't sell it to a customer. If soap does that to the finish, just think of perfume, moisturizer or hairspray.
What a pity - i really love the soft glowing finish. :(

Troll Lover

2009-10-26, 3:24am

That's very bad news indeed :(. Maybe it's a certain batch problem? I recently ordered 1/2 lb of it, when I get it, I will test it as well...

Pat

2009-10-26, 7:04am

You do need to mention this to Kathy at CIM. She wants to hear the bad as well as the good about new colors.

PaulaD

2009-10-26, 7:25am

Wow. So strange! Yes do email Kathy!!
Paula

sunflower33

2009-10-26, 9:21am

Ok, I have emailed Kathy and given her the link to this thread.
:)

Firebrand Beads

2009-10-26, 1:50pm

I wonder if the durability of this finish has anything to do with how hot the bead were when you struck them? I think I have a rod of Gunmetal here somewhere, if I get a chance I'll try a couple of different things.

ROC

2009-10-26, 2:07pm

This glass is sitting in my stash waiting for me to try, but does the finish stay true if clear encased?

Firebrand Beads

2009-10-26, 2:20pm

Lets find out! Someone here was also trying museum wax to keep on a DSP finish -- someone should try that, too.

sunflower33

2009-10-26, 2:59pm

This glass is sitting in my stash waiting for me to try, but does the finish stay true if clear encased?
It turned plain black when I encased it.

ROC

2009-10-26, 3:02pm

It turned plain black when I encased it.

Well, shoot. Will you let us know what Kathy has to say? Maybe she has some ideas.

Judith Billig

2009-10-26, 3:54pm

I'm not surprised that it turns black when encasing - DSP for example or Metallic Black can't retain the finish either. And when buying, I didn't expect the glass to keep the finish when encasing.

However - I did expect the glass to keep the finish without encasing. That it simply goes away with soapy water is not right in my opinion.

Starrr

2009-10-26, 4:48pm

I did expect the glass to keep the finish without encasing. That it simply goes away with soapy water is not right in my opinion.

Not right is an understatement. It's ridiculous that the finish comes off with soapy water. What exactly is in the finish that rubs off? Is it something that could possibly be toxic to the countless customers who have bought jewelry and are wearing beads made with this glass? I'm glad that I haven't used mine yet considering Product Liability lawsuits and all.

ewdb

2009-10-26, 6:15pm

Lets find out! Someone here was also trying museum wax to keep on a DSP finish -- someone should try that, too.

that was me. it works, you just have to ensure you get even the tiny dots well protected with the wax. i soaked the DSP beads in soapy water for about 6weeks and the finish remained.

i've switched to Triton or Aurae when i want a metallic finish - they seem to be more durable (so far)

villa design

2009-10-26, 7:27pm

Okay... I took some of my beads I've made with gunmetal and washed it in soapy water. I rubbed it, even used a brass brush and the finish is not coming off.

So maybe it's a bad batch? I got mine when it was first released.

LoriB

2009-10-27, 12:53pm

ooh, boy—I was scared when I first read this last night because I had just finished making a set with Gunmetal! eek! This morning I cleaned them in just water like I do normally and didn't notice any of the finish coming off. Then I tried rubbing it with bar soap and scrubbed hard over it with a damp towel, and it didn't come off. But when I tried soaking a bead for about 15 min. in the toilet cleaner I use to get rid of the grey smutz on copper green, it definitely disappeared on me.

Just thought I'd pass on my experience to see if it could help with this problem? Judith—what kind of soap were you using?

I'd definitely write Kathy and see what she has to say and I'm sure she'd want to know so she can work on fixing it if this is a problem for other people too. *Ü*

Judith Billig

2009-10-27, 12:56pm

Lori - it's simple Dawn dishwashing liquid. And I had only a tiny amount in the water.

I did another test yesterday night - just dipped my finger oh so slightly in the Dawn, stroke over the bead lightly (no big pressure needed) - poof ... finish is gone. Shiny black is left :(

sunflower33

2009-10-28, 1:23pm

I've been doing tests with a set of gunmetal beads I made over a two-day period, all the same size and shape. On some of them, the finish rubs off easily. On others, the finish is not rubbing off.

It could be that the beads that spent more time in the flame, where I took more time shaping and more time working up a nice gunmetal finish, are the beads that hold their finish better. As though the finish was 'cooked in' to the glass more deeply.

However, one bead I've tested has very small raised decorations of gunmetal on the surface which I know spent only a very short time in the flame, and these small decorations did not lose their finish when washed with soap.... so I'm not sure why some beads are losing their finish and some beads are not.

Firebrand Beads

2009-10-28, 2:19pm

Thanks for adding more real-world experiments, Karolen - I was wondering about the 'cooked in' aspect myself, since I retain a better metallic finish on TAG reducers when I reduce them warmer, rather than all cooled down. So I was leaning toward a difference in temp when the effect was achieved for the difference in how 'deep' it seems to go. Your test seem to disprove that theory for Gunmetal!

Crazy Woman

2009-10-29, 4:31am

I'll be watching this thread with great interest as I love, love, love gunmetal.

LoriB

2009-10-29, 11:10am

Man, this is just too weird, but I'm hoping we can all figure this out since I love Gunmetal too! So i have a few notes and a question to add:

1) Most of my beads were pressed several times before I struck them to metallic. I got a much faster/more metallic finish when using it with presses than with something like raised decoration or spacers, so I'm wondering if having several cooling down sessions helps it "stick" in better?

2) I'm also getting a more bronze tone than silver in many of my beads, but I was also playing around with my propane-to-oxygen ratio while testing it. Are you guys getting the same thing or is everyone getting more silvery color?

HTH!
*Ü* Lori

Judith Billig

2009-10-29, 11:27am

The beads that I made were a base shape of a sphere (made with a graphite bead roller), and stringers spun around it, half melted in. They look very rustic and I thought that would give a great texture for the gunmetal to work it's magic.

And they're definitely a very even, smooth dark silver tone, tone bronze. Even though I love the sound of that. Will have to test that and see if I can tickle out some bronze.

Alas, as long as I'm not sure what happens with the finish, I'll obviously not again make whole sets and sell them to customers.

Did anyone hear back from Kathy?

Crazy Woman

2009-10-29, 4:25pm

I took several beads and rubbed pure liquid soap on them and the gunmetal finish stayed the same. I hearing striking as in cooling the bead and introducing back into the same flame chemistry and reducing. I use an oxy rich flame to bring out the gunmetal effect so I'm wondering if by different means of bringing the metal to the surface brings a different metal to the surface ie ~ ones that form a very thin skin and ones that go thru the stringer, shard, swipe whatever. Just a thought...

Judith Billig

2009-10-29, 4:54pm

Leslie - that's how I worked the glass.
Oxy rich flame, flashing through the flame, some spots longer in the flame others shorter.
Maybe it's an issue with one particular batch?

FYI I bought the Gunmetal in August at Frantz Glass Bash.

sunflower33

2009-10-30, 12:52am

Maybe it's an issue with one particular batch?

FYI I bought the Gunmetal in August at Frantz Glass Bash.
I bought my first batch from Frantz around that same time, and I bought more from Frantz this past month.
Maybe the August batch was a bad batch, and that's why some of my beads have the finish coming off, and some the finish is staying.
Maybe I'll make some old batch/new batch test beads and see what happens.
Or it could be a matter of the temperature of the glass when striking, or how many times it's struck, or pressed, etc, as people have mentioned.
A mystery!
I emailed but have not heard back from Kathy at CiM.

LoriB

2009-10-30, 9:52am

I bet Kathy is just waiting to hear back from all her testers first before she tries to figure out what's going on? I'm one of the testers and we're all supposed to get new color feedback to her by tomorrow and she emailed all of us recently and asked us specifically if we were having any problems with the Gunmetal finish as per this thread. So she's probably sifting through a ton of info right now. I'm sure she'll let us all know what the consensus is as soon as possible—she's really great at wanting to make sure her glass is a quality product and listening to her customers. *Ü*

sunflower33

2009-10-30, 11:54am

Thanks for the update Lori.
All my dealings with Kathy in the past have been great and I know she cares about her product.
I trust this situation will work out for the best, it's good to know she's on it.

LoriB

2009-10-31, 10:31am

Okay, I did some more experimenting/testing last night and here's what I have so far:

1) I made a couple disc beads with a graphite disc BeadRoller instead of the brass press and made one bead with the rod I just got from CIM for testing and one with a rod from the batch I bought at the August Bash
2) I made a round sphere with random stringer work like Judith described with a rod from the Bash as well

All of the above I let get cool so that it lost all its glow and struck by rolling it a few times in a slightly oxidizing flame (letting it cool just a little in between re-striking). One of the discs I reduced first before striking.

This morning I washed and cleaned them like I normally do. Then I put a drop of Dawn on my finger, rubbed it in and re-washed, then scrubbed with a towel. None of the finish came off.

So I'm at a loss to figure out why sometimes the finish is rubbing off...I'm leaning towards thinking it has more to do with how we're working it and our unique flame chemistry? I use a Minor torch, a 5 lpm oxycon, and a BBQ propane tank set at 2.5 lpm with a regulator. I tend to work my beads a little longer, with at least 2 or 3 times in and out of the flame and shaping with both tools and heat gravity. I did notice that on a few areas where I don't think I heated it as much (like around the edges of the discs) the finish seems a little thinner, although it still didn't rub off. Or maybe there's some kind of really flukey batch out there where the ingredients didn't mix perfectly or something?? Anyway, that's my thoughts and hopefully it'll help us figure out this mystery? ;0D

Judith Billig

2009-10-31, 2:40pm

Lori, thanks so much for the extended testing.

I did also another example bead, this time pressing several times with a brass press, adding stringers, and taking lots of time to get out the metallic finish. I've several times alternated oxydized flame and reducing flame, finishing with oxydized flame.

Did the Dawn test - none of the finish came off.

So today I will do another bead just as the original ones & try to treat it the same as originally. Just to see if I can recreate the rubbing-off-problem.

Birdy

2009-10-31, 8:18pm

I made a couple of beads with Gunmetal frit, hoping that the frit would make the most fragile surface possible, and have the best chance of rubbing off.

Soaked one bead for 4+ hours in water with Dawn, and left one dry for comparison.

Scrubbed on the soaked bead for 90 seconds with a green scrubby pad and Dawn. Checked the spot that I was scrubbing on every 30 seconds. At 60 seconds a little bit of the surface had rubbed off - had to look really close to see that any had rubbed off. At 90 seconds, about 50% of the surface had rubbed off in that tiny spot that I was really scraping hard on. I scrubbed so hard that I had to stop at 90 seconds because my thumb hurt so much. lol! The unsoaked bead didn't scrub up any differently than the soaked one.

I had to basically sand the bead to wear down the surface.

Would have to agree with what was said earlier - it seems to help make a thicker and more durable surface if the bead is taken through several cycles in the flame. I work the Gunmetal, Eff. Metallic Black, Dark Silver Plum, etc. by bringing up the metallic finish, cooling slightly, bringing it back to just a tiny bit shiny, cooling a bit, back to metallic...and go through that cycle about 3 times.

OK, that was my shot at being a Mad Scientist for the day!

Birdy

PatFrantz

2009-11-01, 2:23pm

I'm going to step in here and add my two cents to this thread.

The surface development process that Birdy described above is good information.

All you folks who soak your beads in acoustic substances are always taking a chance on having the surface eaten off when you soak a bead that has a reactive glass on the surface. When a shiny or rainbow reactive glass surface is produced on a bead, you have to understand that the reactive surface is very thin ( only a few micron on the surface of the glass) and it can be altered with amazing ease. I live right by saltwater and I find that if I do not protect my reactive beads, the saltwater in the air can alter the surfaces on my beads.

If you really want to protect the surface of your reactive beads, you need to seal the bead surface with finger nail polish or some clear sealant to stop surface erosion.

I love the reactive glasses and I am willing to take the short comings in stride. Remember learn and adapt.

Kathy

2009-11-04, 11:35am

I am reading through our testers' feedback on Gunmetal this week. So far it seems to be a very erratic problem. Even if I am 100% certain that people are using the same batch of Gunmetal, there are some who report that the lustre wipes off and some who report no problems. There are even some people who report that Gunmetal acts like a regular black and they can't get it to strike at all (again, I am certain they are using the same batch.)

This leads me to believe it has something to do with working atmosphere and specifically length of time worked.

I am waiting for feedback from a select group of testers that are comparing each batch of Gunmetal and exploring this issue. It is likely to be next week before I hear from them.

I will try to post the feedback I do have on our site as soon as possible.

Kathy

Judith Billig

2009-11-04, 4:15pm

Kathy - thanks so much for the update.
Looking forward to hear if your testers find anything specific.

JetAge Studio

2009-11-05, 3:24pm

Kathy, I just got my batches yesterday and will be testing with all these comments in mind. Thanks so much everyone for such great descriptions....really helps me to see what I can do to help. I'll get some time to test this afternoon, and see what comes out tomorrow. I'm also using a Minor with tanked oxy set to around 10 and propane set to around 4 psi.

Renee Wiggins

Kathy

2009-11-06, 4:41pm

I updated our testers' feedback collected so far to our Gunmetal page:
http://www.creationismessy.com/color.aspx?id=70

I think you'll find that a lot of the information is contradictory. What seemed to work for one person did not work for another, as is also apparent in this thread.

Please note that everything shipped to Frantz and to our testers was from a single batch of Gunmetal (which has been sold out for awhile), so these inconsistencies cannot be explained as batch to batch issues. I did ship a different batch to Tuffnell Glass in the UK but that is probably not the batch any of you are using.

The only thing I noted that did not get contradicted or disproved by someone else is the length of time that the bead was worked. Many people noted that if they worked for a longer period of time the lustre was more permanent. Some people worked for a shorter period of time and had permanent lustre. But no one noted that they worked for a longer time and lost lustre. I am interested if anyone has disproved this?

I'll be updating this page as I receive more feedback from testers next week. Hope this helps in the meantime. Thanks, Karolen, for bringing this thread to my attention. And for your patience as I compiled feedback!

Kathy

JetAge Studio

2009-11-07, 9:34am

One thing I was trying to test with the samples was this luster problem...I think I have a working theory and Kathy is right on about the feedback so far.

Judith, when you're working the Gunmetal, are you "bouncing" the glass in the flame as some folks do to work up the shine in silver glass (that's what I do for most silver-rich glass)? If not, can you describe your technique that you use when working Gunmetal? I'll compare my notes with yours.

Renee

Rachel

2009-11-07, 9:55am

I just found this and I am a bit surprised and confused. I've been using CIM glass in the colors I can almost exclusively along with my lauscha and I love gun metal. If I can buy CIM white, black, etc. I do because I just love it. When I found the gunmetal I realized it was much like the DSP and I oxidized it to get the finish. Reducing it removes the finish and working it cool also removes it and just leaves black. I soak all of my beads in a combination of a little tiny bit of comet and water when they come off the mandrel because this combination allows me to clean the bead holes with the mandrel I made the bead on rather than scratch it with dremel tools or something. I only started this a while ago and sometimes I have to use the dremel on stubborn bead release. I had at least 10 beads made from gun metal that sat in the mixture of comet and water for about a week. As soon as I saw this I grabbed them all and went to rubbing. For whatever reason, none of them lost the surface luster they had after being soaked in something rather abrasive and being rubbed pretty hard. I've had some silver glass almost etch in this comet solution so I agree with Pat on that completely. Abrasives will change the finish for sure.

back to the gunmetal... the beads that I had that were dry and had not been soaking had the finish on them and I attempted to rub off the finish with dawn detergent, glass cleaner and a few other products and I wasn't able to rub it off. However, taking extra comet and putting it directly on the bead and scrubbing with a sponge did make streaks that looks like something was rubbing off but that was essentially etching the bead with an abrasive.

I worked the beads on a barracuda with an M15 and worked all of them in a neutral flame until I was ready to see the finish. Some were pressed and some were just round. I don't know if this helps anyone. I got my order from ABR about a month ago. I found that the finish held up better than some of my silver glass that can't be soaked too long in the comet or it will dull the shine. I am going to keep testing though and I will certainly post anything that might be helpful.

I love the glass personally and wish I had a bucket of it but I have to just be happy with the supply I have for now.

I'd be happy to swap a rod of mine with someone that is having trouble with theirs if anyone wants to do that just to see if it is a difference in batches.

JetAge Studio

2009-11-07, 1:01pm

As far as I understand with the batches I tested, there's only one original batch, that's what everyone is using now in the US and is probably what folks are all using in this thread. So, it's all the same glass. That batch is the strong reacting silvering black. Frantz now has a "Unique" batch that is a second batch and somewhat less reactive....but seems to have some other interesting effects such as "webbing" or "mottling" within the silvering. But that's a different thread :)

It seems to be if once the silver luster is on the bead, if it isn't worked long enough or warm enough to "burn" into the surface of the glass, it wants to rub off later, that's why I was wondering about what techniques folks were using to get their Gunmetal to shine...."cooler" working vs "warmer" meaning the glass is actually glowing orange while the luster has been achieved. Does that make sense? :)

Judith Billig

2009-11-07, 4:38pm

Renee, for these particular beads I was shaping them into spheres, applying on the outside the random stringers.
Then wafting them in and out of the flame, approx. 1.5 inches away from the flame, going first in and out of the flame, then going left and right like eating a corncob. The bead is always just a short time in the flame.

No, the glass was definitely not glowing orange, as I wanted to keep the stringers fairly raised, didn't want them to melt in too much. I treated the beads more like what I would treat a reducing glass ... shape, let cool down till glow is gone, manipulate shortly in the flame to achieve the desired effect.

Hope that helps. Thanks to Kathy and all the testers for their work. The plot thickens and I think we're getting pretty close now to solving the mystery rub-off ;) .

JetAge Studio

2009-11-07, 9:31pm

tt4st

2009-11-08, 2:33pm

I don't have any CIM Gunmetal but wanted to share this experience. Something interesting happened to me this morning when cleaning out a "tree" bead. I was using a stringer of Metallic Black (similar to Gunmetal but made by Effetre) for the raised trunk and limbs and got a good metallic gunmetal shine on it before putting it into the kiln. It came out of the kiln a cool gunmetal color and I put it into water to soak overnight. This morning, as I was cleaning it, I noticed the metal color was rubbing off on the thinner limbs and part of the trunk that wasn't as thick. I thought it was weird because I have used that same Effetre Metallic Black on other beads (without raised stringer) and haven't had any finish rub off. After reading this thread, I am thinking that maybe the raised stringer is the problem. The silver isn't cooked in (as others here have suggested), even though it turns the metal color and is more likely to rub off. I do know that I didn't cook the stringer nearly as much because I needed the raised definition. I know I'm not using the same glass, or the same manufacturer, but the results are surprisingly similar so I thought I would mention it.

JetAge Studio

2009-11-09, 2:28pm

There does seem to be a consensus with these glasses then. Thanks Suzanne for sharing your experience with Eff's black!

Rachel

2009-11-10, 11:36am

I am just curious too, for those of you having it rub off, did you use another color under it? I know some of you used it as raised stringer so it did have color under it but I wonder if anyone had the rubbing off problem with it if they put something under it to save the glass as it is more expensive. This would put a thinner coat of it on the bead and I wonder if that could have something to do with it. I realize that it seems to be the longer you keep it in the flame and make sure it is cooked in there really well will help the problem but I wonder about thinning it out by using clear or something under it. I didn't put anything under it so the whole bead was just gunmetal but I am going to try it later today with black under it and like one layer of gunmetal to see what that does.

I am just curious now. These mysteries are fun IMO. I am going to test a bead that is completely gunmetal oxidized to get the finish and only cooked a short time and another one that has black or clear under it but cooked for a while then oxidized and then annealed. Will post results.

Judith Billig

2009-11-10, 12:24pm

Rachel, the beads that I made (where the Gunmetal rubbed off very very easily) were entirely made with Gunmetal.

elasia

2009-11-12, 5:59am

Thanks Judith! I think this is very interesting! Hmmm....maybe we're getting the problem nailed down! :) Maybe more heat to sort of "cook" in the silver is the trick! More testing....more testing! Thanks for your input!

this is totally it i think.

i didn't have a problem with the shine coming off so i soaked those a few days again to see if i could while they were wet, they're fine. i always use a little bit of vinegar in water to soak my beads in.

the first beads were made on a HH, i made some beads yesterday on a cricket. 6 round beads...3 'quick passes' and 3 'normal time' round beads.
one of each soaked in water..the others in vinegar/water, i had the same results. i think being on a HH and working slower helped those.

..the 'quick passes' yes, the shine came off just soaking a night in water. not around the hole though. (it's 'cooked' a little more there so another point for 'cooking it' theory).

...the 'normal amount of time' beads, the shine did not rub off for me.

~but here's the thing, i can't say ALL because i haven't tried or tested all, but shine from metallic glasses will wear off over time is what i found with my daily wear items.
a few examples; the 'copper' you could get from ASK tribal turquoise, i made 'copper' spacers for a bracelet i never took off, the shine came off after a couple months.
i wear hair beads, and i have a few decorations on them with different glasses..reduced iris gold, silvered hades, DSP, etc. all are slowly losing the shine/luster, the stringer decorations faster than the dots..and these are worn daily and are 2 + years old.

Crazy Woman

2009-11-12, 7:06am

Sorry to add confusion to the thread, however ~ I blew a shard the other day and blew out one side that was less than paper thin. Holding breath the whole time :smile: I applied some of the thicker shards and said, what the heck, picked up the thin ones and applied. Out of the kiln and nice shine ~ soaked in water to remove from mandrel and I just took soap and rubbed and rubbed. Still shiny. So it might not be the thickness of the application.

So could it be that Dawn has something in it? for one of the solutions to the finish coming off. I always use what is on sale ~ Palmolive presently.

I've scrubbed with a paper towel on lots of the beads and the shine is still there.

I work on a Phantom and tanked oxy. Might try the Barracuda today and see if that makes a difference.

mtnglass

2009-11-12, 7:17am

Crazy Woman

2009-11-12, 7:41am

Double post.... sorry

elasia

2009-11-12, 4:16pm

not sure if that throws a wrench in it ?

because
i used only water on 2, (quick strike and longer worked)..quick strike bead, it came off.
i used water/vinegar on the other 2...same

a shard is worked longer regardless right? from what i've found anyways, glass that 'does stuff' works faster as a shard - in non tech. terms.

i still say it's longer working time (and more heat?).
..that's my story and i'm sticking to it :lol:

now i really want to try some dawn or other..i'm going to dang it lol.