Silvering liquid seen on discovery channel

[Liastnir]

Good Afternoon All,

One of the educational shows caught my attention because it featured how handmade ornaments are made. Unfortunately they meant "hand painted" as the forming was just molds, but I digress.

Before sending the ornaments to be painted, the lampworker would swish inside a chemical that gave the ornaments a mirror finish on the inside to enhance the later paint job. It didn't look like they were particularly fearful of the chemical, so I wonder if its something commercially available. I believe it was an episode of How It's Made, but I don't remember what the chemical was, or even if they said it. Anyone know?

Thanks,
CJ

[Torched Art]

I saw someone use the liquid silver in their blown glass. I was just thinking of that the other day and how cool it would be to put in hollow beads.

He did say it was toxic if I remember correctly.

[squid]

It might be tin chloride - that is used to silver mirrors.

[Mr. Meker]

OK-- This is pretty hard to do. I have never done it beefore, but it is pretty common in scientific glassblowing, which I want to learn. I have all the stuff to do it, and i might give it a try just to see.

http://www.ecu.edu/glassblowing/Data.htm#silver

Before you do this, do some more research.

Wear gloves and old clothes and goggles. This can stain the skin.

Edit: Tin chloride is used for making iridescent glass. Stannous chloride is an unambiguous name for a type of tin chloride.
http://www.youtube.com/user/corningmuseumofglass#p/u/46/PIHXOq9hE0U

[Liastnir]

If it was difficult, I'm not sure it was the same thing, or the show grossly misrepresented the process :cool:

All these artists did was pour some of the liquid in, swish it for a few seconds, and pour it out before passing it on to the next person.

CJ

[KEW]

I might be crazy, but I seem to remember a thread about "Liquid Silver" used for this purpose and there were a few links. As I recall, it was non-toxic and may also come in "Liquid Gold". But I think it was also applied cold. (But then I might have dreamt the thread.)

I found it: http://angelgilding.com/A1108A.html

[theglasszone]

OH MY GOODNESS! How interesting! Thanks, KEW, for the link...I think I'm gonna have to get that kit and try it! MIL is giving me a $ gift for Christmas, and I want THIS! :)

De

[KEW]

Read the safety info, I didn't!

[NMLinda]

I thought they used silver nitride for silvering mirrors and the inside of glass ornaments. I found a tutorial on it somewhere - the application sounds similar to what CJ and others have described here. It's been a long time since I looked at the directions, but the silver nitride is mixed with water and poured into a glass ornament or over a piece of glass to be mirrored.

I bought silver nitride crystals to use in solution as an alternative to silver-fuming. It's perhaps less toxic than stannous chloride (which is very toxic) but the safety info I got with the silver nitride made it quite clear that it's not benign and needs to be handled with caution.

Linda

[squid]

If it was difficult, I'm not sure it was the same thing, or the show grossly misrepresented the process :cool:

All these artists did was pour some of the liquid in, swish it for a few seconds, and pour it out before passing it on to the next person.

CJ

Once the liquid was in the ornament, they dipped it in hot water to activate the silvering liquid.

[mgking]

I think you're right about the How It's Made episode: we have products that do exactly that. As for safety and toxic chemicals, only the dry crystals (silver nitrate) are an issue and we don't sell them dry. Our chemical solutions are no more dangerous than the cleaning liquids under your sink.

A lot of our customers blow glass and decorate the inside with silver, gold, copper and/or galena. I'm thinking Christmas tree ornaments.... Of course there are beads, prisms, bowls, all kinds of shapes.

Check us out at angelgilding.com

[Jeri]

I have been working with the materials from Angel Gilding and a couple of other places for a while, to develop the process for mirroring hollows, which isn't hard, but it is a little persnickety! I love it with sandblasting. There are a few folks who do it, and the mirrored beads I had at the Gathering were well received which was exciting. I have tried to post them here, but they don't photograph all that well. It isn't just the one step you have been talking about (which would definitely be easier) but I'm hoping to begin writing about it soon......and also to include it in a book I have been writing (which is why I can't really just disgorge all the details this second). De - if you are working with the Angel Gilding stuff, I would be happy to chime in with my experiences, just PM me. The group of beadmakers working on this book with me have been pretty excited about the potential. Jeri

[Liastnir]

Squid is dead on! I forgot that part, they did have to heat the outside with hot water. Mike, which product seems the closest? I see your chemicals listings and they seem to be components of the multi-step kit.

Thanks,
CJ

[mgking]

To do just the basics, you'll need the two sets of chemicals:

# 2101 Silver Chemicals, Ready-To-Use, 125 mL (Silver, Activator and Reducer)
# 2115 Tin for Silver, Concentrate, 30 mL

You need the Tin for Silver (which contains the stannous chloride that was referred to above) to prepare the glass for mirroring.
Our complete instructions are available online for free download.

If you are going to do a lot of this, Our Blown Glass Mirroring Kit (# 1108A) fills these out to a complete kit for any size of project. It includes a waste treatment kit to make sure that what you throw away is safe for the environment.

You can also get refills of the chemicals separately so you can pick and choose as you want.

Oh, and you can mirror with copper and gold as well as galena - a kind of gun-metal dark mirror.

As Jeri pointed out, it's difficult to get photos of mirrors so you can see what the result looks like (they reflect the camera!) but our Customers Gallery should give you some ideas of what you can do. Like antiquing - making an otherwise perfect mirror look quite imperfect.

Mike

[crystalflipz]

Mike, I just looked through your Customers Gallery and this looks so cool!! This is definitely on my "want" list for the future.

[AlivELampworK]

in scientific glassblowing, i know it is considered highly dangerous. especially since you have to use hydrofluoric acid to clean the material that needs to be silvered. it is an undesired job to do.. my friend had silvering duty and he hated it.. full hazmat suit.

[Torched Art]

I wanted to try this up until Ali scared me. Someone please tell us that it's something different and MUCH safer. I got rid of my hazmat suit last week. LOL

[Janelle Zorko]

Wow - and the ornament makers in Germany just seem to do the silvering without any protection of any kind. In fact, they put the ornaments above their heads to "dry" with this silver stuff dripping on their faces and clothing all the while. They've been doing it this way for gosh knows how long. I wondered about the damage they might be doing to themselves but these two that I saw making and painting ornaments were a married couple in their late 50s/early 60s and they had probably been doing it this way for 40 years.

152683

[squid]

I wanted to bump this thread to mention that this process was detailed in the latest issue of The Flow. It is indeed Silver Nitrate that they use to silver the inside of the ornament. It's a cool little article.

[alb6094]

I read that then saw this, thanks for the bump squid!

[Jeri]

I am happy to be able to add to this by saying that I have finished my second book, which should be out in March 2011, and have included a mirrored hollow bead with an appendix all about how to mirror on the small scale that is typical of beadmakers! It is called Creating Glass Beads (Amazon already has it for pre-order!). Many of the 14 beadmakers who worked on the tutorials with me have mirrored beads in the book. It is really fun to do once you work out some of the stumbling blocks. Jeri

[patienthand]

I am with Ali, my experience silvering was in the lab glass arena.. not nice stuff to work with and dangerous. But I did make lovely silvered bells to go between layers of my wedding cake. as well as some dewars flasks etc etc

Candice