Which concentrator works best with a Mini CC

[Genea]

Hi all! I was thinking about upgrading to a Mini CC, but I would like to use a concentrator instead of tank for now. Can anyone suggest the proper concentrator and a vendor to buy one? If you can get one at Frantz Art glass that would be fantastic!

Thanks in advance!

Much love,

Genea

[Alaska]

Used a 5 LPM unit on a Mini CC and it is not enough LPM. However, that same 5 LPM unit worked well on a Cricket.

Have not tried the Mini CC on two 5 LPMs tied together, but it would be a good bet that it would work much better. The two on a Cricket, however, makes that torch a winner!

The overall issue is that the Mini CC takes more oxygen than the Cricket for about the same performance. Thus you will need a 10 LPM concentrator or a pair to 5's to get the job done.

Others can chime in with their experience....

[Otter's Flame]

I own several Mini CC's and love them. I also own other torches as well. The Mini CC's are O2 hogs, the smallest I personally will run my Mini CC's on is one M-15 Oxycon.

Otter

[Silver Moon Lampwork]

I use a 10 lpm Integra with mine. The Mini CC does seem to need more O2 than my Minor did, so I'm thinking a 5 lpm concentrator might not be ideal.

[Genea]

Yeah, I knew it needed more than a 5 lpm, that is what I use to run my minor. I was thinking it needed at least a 10lpm concentrator, but I wasn't sure which one would work best hence the reason for my post ;) Thanks for your responses. Hopefully more people will comment and let me know what they think.

Otter, where did you get your concentrator?

[ArtcoInc]

Yes, the Mini CC needs a lot more oxygen than a 5 lpm machine. Your oxygen needs will depend on the type of work you do: boro or soft glass? Large or small work? Etc ...

I'd consider a single M/EX-15 (at 7-8 lpm) to be the minimum. 10 lpm (either a single 10 lpm box, or two 5 lpm machines hooked together) would be better. Hooking up two M/EX-15s would be even better still.

Malcolm

[LyndaJ]

I ran mine on 12 and it was VERY nice.

[gemsinbloom]

I am running mine on a 5L with no issues so I don't get what the problem is?

[Torched Art]

I have my mini cc on two 5LPM's and it is very weak. It takes much longer to melt the glass, and larger beads with detail tend to crack. Not enough umpf.

Now I am thinking of dragging out my Lynx or minor instead to see how they work with the two oxy cons. A cricket sounds like a nice torch, but haven't tried it. I like the sound of not eating up so much oxygen.

[Genea]

Thanks for the info all. I work soft glass. I usually work small beads, but I want to be able to do both. If I feel like making whoppers or using BE I want to be able to do EVERYTHING. I think the Mini CC will accommodate all of my needs.

I heard it's not good to run a Minor on anything larger than a 5lpm. You can still do it, but it ruins the concentrator and torch eventually.

The same goes for a Mini, it needs at least 10 from what I heard since it's more on the range of the Lynx than Minor. I just want to get whatever is going to make it run at it's maximum capacity on a concentrator.

I didn't know they made a 12. Hmm... I already have a 5lpm for my Minor, but I was thinking about keeping that one set up and working the mini as well. I thought if I wanted I could share the propane so I could use either torch :D

Hey Malcolm, Where can you buy one?

[ArtcoInc]

Thanks for the info all. I work soft glass. I usually work small beads, but I want to be able to do both. If I feel like making whoppers or using BE I want to be able to do EVERYTHING. I think the Mini CC will accommodate all of my needs.

The Mini CC is a very versatile torch, and is capable of doing large and small work, and both boro and soft glass.

I heard it's not good to run a Minor on anything larger than a 5lpm. You can still do it, but it ruins the concentrator and torch eventually.

The total amount of oxygen going through any torch is controlled at the valves on the torch. Even wide open, there is a physical limit to how much oxygen that can possibly flow through any torch. You can not damage a torch by flowing more oxygen (or gas) through it. You will effect the flame, but not the torch itself.

If you try to increase the flow by increasing the pressure too much, then yes, you may damage the torch. But, it would be due to the pressure, not the flow rate. And too much pressure is not a problem with a concentrator.

If you get an Mega-large concentrator, and try to run a tiny torch with it, you *might* damage the concentrator *only* because the tiny torch would flow so little oxygen, it would be as if you had the oxygen valves closed. In this case, you should install a bypass valve between your concentrator and your torch. This way, the 'excess' oxygen would be released back into the air, and the concentrator would be happy.

The same goes for a Mini, it needs at least 10 from what I heard since it's more on the range of the Lynx than Minor. I just want to get whatever is going to make it run at it's maximum capacity on a concentrator.

Since concentrators can only produce about 90-95% pure oxygen, you will never get 100% out of *any* torch using a concentrator.

To get the maximum capacity out of a torch on a concentrator, you need to find out what the flow rate the torch needs to produce the maximum usable flame (not the maximum flow rate through the torch, as some manufacturers use to rate their torches).

*BUT* .... most artists rarely use their torches at maximum capacity! Oh yea, some of the BBBBs (Big Bad Boro Boys/Babes) claim that they 'rage' their torches ... but most of the time, we use only a small portion of the capability of our torches. It's like ... your car can go over 100 mph ... but, how often do *you* drive that fast?

I didn't know they made a 12.

There are industrial concentrators/generators that run hospitals, and are what your welding supply places use to fill your oxygen bottles. So yes, there are larger concentrators. They aren't cheap, though. :-$

Hmm... I already have a 5lpm for my Minor, but I was thinking about keeping that one set up and working the mini as well. I thought if I wanted I could share the propane so I could use either torch :D

Are you looking for a concentrator that would run *either* torch (one at a time)? Or, one that would run *both* torches at the same time?

Hey Malcolm, Where can you buy one?

First, figure out what you need (-vs- what you 'want'). Factor in your budget. Then, we'll talk. :waving:

Malcolm

[ArtcoInc]

I am running mine on a 5L with no issues so I don't get what the problem is?

Some people want a larger flame than a 5 lpm concentrator can produce.

Other people complain that the knobs on their Mini CC get warm. This is often because they are running a small flame. The Mini CC needs a largish flame to 'push' the heat off the front of the torch. Without the extra power from a larger concentrator, they just can't get the larger flame ... hence, the warm knobs.

But, if you're happy with your torch as it is, there is no problem :)

Malcolm

[Torched Art]

Malcom, thank you for the wealth of knowledge. I have certainly learned something new on this thread.

Update: I disconnected my mini cc and hooked up my lynx to the two 5LPM oxy cons. There is a substantial difference for me. The flame is stronger/hotter. I think I would either have to upgrade the oxy cons or hook up to tanks for the cc in the future.

[gemsinbloom]

Thank you for the explanation. Yes the fuel knob gets hot but I cannot imagine wanting a larger flame than I have. I guess I do work smallish.


Some people want a larger flame than a 5 lpm concentrator can produce.

Other people complain that the knobs on their Mini CC get warm. This is often because they are running a small flame. The Mini CC needs a largish flame to 'push' the heat off the front of the torch. Without the extra power from a larger concentrator, they just can't get the larger flame ... hence, the warm knobs.

But, if you're happy with your torch as it is, there is no problem :)

Malcolm

[crofootadv]

I run my miniCC on a 5lpm concentrator about 75% of the time, it's fine for small beads, icicles, small marbles 1/2" up to about 3/4", and stuff like that.

I have also been know to make up to about 1 9/16" boro marbles on my mini, but then I hook up my tank of O2.

It's harder to adjust and get a neutral flame on the concentrator too......the mini does seem to like the purer O2 from a tank.

[kbinkster]

Carlisle recommends running a neutral flame with 3/8" candles. I have tested this out. They mean it.:lol: Shorter candles than that really load a lot of heat onto the face (which gets transferred up the brass body and into the knobs). You can't really get 3/8" candles using a 5 LPM concentrator. You can get a neutral flame for making soft glass beads using a 5 LPM, but you just can't get long enough candles to keep the heat from loading up.

If you already have a 5 LPM machine, you can add a second 5 LPM machine and get about 9-9.5 LPM (which is still good). Or, you could get a 10 LPM machine to replace the 5 LPM machine. OR, you could get a 10 LPM machine to match the 5 LPM machine you have and have quite a bit of oxygen to feed the Mini CC or a larger torch. It all depends on what you want to do. The smaller/slower you like to work, the less oxygen you need. But, for the Mini CC, I would say use 10 LPM or more.

As for boro work, it takes about 11 LPM to get the candles out to what Carlisle recommends for boro work. You can still work boro quite nicely on 10 LPM (I have a lot of happy customers running a Mini CC with a Regalia), but having a little more is great if you want to work hot/fast.

[KJJames]

I have a mini cc and a devilbiss mc84 oxycon. I only work with soft glass and really only make beads at this time. I don't have any problems with warm or hot knobs on my torch. I am sure that if I upgraded my oxy, I would get better performance from my torch. However, it's all good for me with what I do right now.

[gemsinbloom]

Excellent information, thank you! But I have been able to get a 3/8" candle with my 5 LPM concentrator. I just choose to work cooler so then the propane knob gets hot.


Carlisle recommends running a neutral flame with 3/8" candles. I have tested this out. They mean it.:lol: Shorter candles than that really load a lot of heat onto the face (which gets transferred up the brass body and into the knobs). You can't really get 3/8" candles using a 5 LPM concentrator. You can get a neutral flame for making soft glass beads using a 5 LPM, but you just can't get long enough candles to keep the heat from loading up.

If you already have a 5 LPM machine, you can add a second 5 LPM machine and get about 9-9.5 LPM (which is still good). Or, you could get a 10 LPM machine to replace the 5 LPM machine. OR, you could get a 10 LPM machine to match the 5 LPM machine you have and have quite a bit of oxygen to feed the Mini CC or a larger torch. It all depends on what you want to do. The smaller/slower you like to work, the less oxygen you need. But, for the Mini CC, I would say use 10 LPM or more.

As for boro work, it takes about 11 LPM to get the candles out to what Carlisle recommends for boro work. You can still work boro quite nicely on 10 LPM (I have a lot of happy customers running a Mini CC with a Regalia), but having a little more is great if you want to work hot/fast.

[LyndaJ]

I have a 5 and 7 hooked together for my "12".

I did run my mini cc on just a 5 lpm devilbiss 9 psi machine for almost a year with just BE. I added the second concentrator and wow! what a difference. I actually preferred it to a lynx for soft glass work.

I prefer GTT for boro work though, either lynx or cheetah (which are the two that I've used for boro)

[LyndaJ]

Regarding purity
What purity is tanked O2 generally? Isn't it around 95% (if the company is filling of generators?) and only 99+ if it's being generated off liquid?

[kbinkster]

Regarding purity
What purity is tanked O2 generally? Isn't it around 95% (if the company is filling of generators?) and only 99+ if it's being generated off liquid?

It depends on where you get your tanked oxygen and what grade it is. Some places have a higher grade for medical and they have it certified and all that (adds to the price). Typically, though, regular industrial grade is 98-99+. The oxygen that gets put into tanks (even liquid oxygen) is made by concentrating it from the air with big generating plants. They are just super large concentrators and work on the same principal as the little machines. They take air and remove the nitrogen. This leaves oxygen and some trace gases behind. Those trace gases are what keep the oxygen from being 100% pure. The concentrated product can be reprocessed to increase the oxygen concentration. That's what these big plants do in order to get the very high purity.

Concentrators are rated by what LPM they put out at the point it the output is 90% pure. Really, anything below 90% is not that great for lampworking. You can melt clear boro with low purity (albeit not as fast as with higher purity), but once you start working colors, you're going to want the higher purity (90% and higher). I have heard back from some people who moved to using the Regalia after using tanked and actually preferred the Regalia because the oxygen was not as concentrated as on tanks - making the flame just cooler enough to give very good control over what they were doing - it took the edge off. I have had other people tell me that they saw no difference and were very happy.

So, when you look at machines, make sure that you get one that puts out 90% or better at whatever its highest rated LPM is. There are some machines out there that have been advertised as putting out a certain LPM, but don't put out 90% or better at that level.