What set up do you have? [Archive]

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-16, 3:19pm

One of the reason that I am doing this is because of a conversation I had with my inurance agent a few days ago..I talked with her for hours and really dug into my policy to see exactly what coverage I had.

1. It seems that a lot of the time people think they are automatically covered by their home owners insurance. That couldn't be further from the truth.

2. People seem to think the agent knows all, that also couldn't be further from the truth. It is the underwriters that know all and I find that most agents know very little about lampworking/studio insurance.

3. Most homeowners policies will be CANCELED the minute they find out you have a torch or kiln or metalsmithing in the house or garage.

4. Most homeowners policies cover only "normal house hold and garage goods'.

5. Most people think they are covered for the insured amount they pay monthly for if they are burglarized..not true. You will only receive your "sublimit". Mine is 1500.00 which won't even cover my wedding ring.

6. If you have guns, or coins or stamps or jewelry or hobby stuff they have to be covered with additional insurance after you have had them appraised, photographed and the receipts all kept in a safety deposit box or? so you can prove what was in the house.

Just to add 1 piece of jewelry to my policy increased my insurance more than I could afford. Individual items are mega bucks to insure!!

7. The only way you get the full insured amount is if your house burns to the ground, so you get the house and contents. Or maybe a hurricane or flood etc. Otherwise it is the dreaded sublimit.

8. So in order for me to have the huge amount of investment I have in lampworking, jewelry making, metalsmithing covered for replacement values, I have to have it under one roof and totally separate from the house with a business policy because...ready for #9???

9. If the insurance company finds out you have sold just $1.00 worth of your hobby, you are a business in their eyes for all intents and purposes).
The government, the city, the county all have different views on what is a business. Getting a policy for the business in the house along with the house policy was not an option, it just doesn't work that way because our hobby is high risk. Therefore you cannot have it in your home or the garage.

People have told me they called their inurance agent and they told them No problem your covered...I would bet on the ponies you are NOT covered because they never put specific questions to the underwriters or they know you have a very small sublimit and are not worried about paying because of the wonderful grey area.

I hope that this post and thread may help some others to know their insurance policies.

I have made a decision to gather the jewelry room in the bedroom, the metalsmithing area in the garage and the horsetrailer studio all into one studio building in the back yard just so I can have peace of mind by insuring the whole thing as a business.

Or I just might sell everything and go to Hawaaii for a long vacation!!!

Lorraine

dragonart glass

2010-03-16, 10:17pm

I have my studio in a trailer on the side of my house. I bought liability insurance through the ISGB. I needed it to do shows, but the agent said it covers all aspects of my work from teaching to shows and my studio. I live in a high fire area so I think my insurance company would be happy to cancel. I think they prefer to cover as little as possible. Thanks for the heads up. I would be worrying a lot more if I hadn't gotten insurance already. I'm also in California, btw.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-17, 11:57am

Hi Polly, I like your avatar!

I dreaded digging in deep to find out exactly what was what. I had put it off for several years but decided that 2010 was the year I was going to do all of "those things".

It really was a bummer to know how the coverages work and how little we really have but you have it right..a complete separate coverage on a complete separate detached area..

The good news is it will increase my property value, let me teach and share or have play days without any liability worries, it also makes for a much easier tax time because nothing is in the house so no worries about red flags triggered for auditors. I also have installed an inventory program and that will all be much easier because it will all be in one place..SHEESH!!

Thanks for replying.
Lorraine

simvet02

2010-03-17, 3:54pm

Boy, what a conversation you started in this household...LOL I just think I was in denial and hubby was oblivious. I told him that we needed to call the insurance agent and be ready to build a little out building. I've always wanted to do it that way anyway.

I work in an unfinished basement right now, my propane bottle is out the back door and I only hook it up when I'm using it, which if I remember right is not really legal either.

All these rules...LOL such an inconvenience...well until something bad happens.

Thanks so much for doing the legwork, now we all need to be responsible.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-17, 7:12pm

Oh Jan, thank you so much for the kind words..I giggled at your first sentence!!

I am so glad you may get a nice little backyard studio? That is the plus side to all of the insurance crude we need to address. Believe me I HATED making that initial phone call. But it turned out well worth it.

Now to decide on where to put that shed....\\:D/

Lorraine

simvet02

2010-03-17, 8:22pm

You and me both Lorraine, we have lots of property behind the house but it's hilly and full of trees. It's going to need to be fairly close to the house so that we can get electricity to it. Why did I ever retire??? LOL

Torched Art

2010-03-18, 8:59am

Thank you for posting this. I am currently working on getting insurance too. There is another thread with info about this.

I'm glad you also added such a detailed list of all the issues that were addressed in your conversation with the insurance agent.

I recently was talking with an agent, and he got on the subject of what precautions I take for safety, protecting the home, myself and students. I told him that I have special ventilation, fireproofing, first aid kit, fire extinguishers, etc. In addition, I also have a substancial amount of safety information that I have my students and guests read and sign. I also have a liability waiver. He suggested also to have an incident report in case anyone gets hurt, and to take pictures of the injury and workspace and the thing that hurt them. All this documentation is going to help if you were to get sued if they trip on a bead or burn their skin. If you want a copy of the incident report, I have it posted on my blog.

Torched Art

2010-03-18, 9:04am

here is the other thread http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154570

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-18, 9:37am

Thank-you Christina! That is very good to know. I will be making a visit to your site.

Teaching is a whole nother' ball park and it needs to be done lawfully or else you could loose everything.

I will have my business policy with the same company but it will be separate and both policies will have the $1,000,000.00 liability. I just feel we can't be over-insured in that area. The liability is a huge part but insuring the contents and the building is about the same for me. SO my policy is for both and will be about $1000-$1200 a year.

MY insurance policy will cover
Liability in the studio, teaching, in the home if students come inside to use the bathroom etc., It basically follows me and my stuff and my students. going to shows, anyone at the shows that gets hurts at my booth for any reason, anybody's displays I ruin including their tents in case mine blows onto theirs etc. all of the jewelry, displays, just all kinds of liability.
Then there is insuring the studio building and it contents for replacemnet value, for fire, theft, earthquake, wind, water etc.

I like knowing my new policy insures me to the hilt..I just have to make a few more beads, teach a few more classes and maybe move myself into a more business agressive mode in order to have all of this and keep my sanity at the same time. LOL

Lorraine

Torched Art

2010-03-18, 10:03am

I forgot to answer your poll. I chedked "other".

I am in a covered patio with "temporary" walls. The floor is concrete, the agent was pleased with that. He was also pleased that the studio was not "in the house" like a spare bedroom. I would love to have it in a nice shed because our view out the livingroom is my messy mish-mash of tools and equipment. But it's very convenient and I have plenty of space. I love it.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-18, 12:05pm

I found out through another lampworker on TB that Statefarm
( do not use Statefarm, see post #24)
will do a separate business policy on a studio in the house. So far they are not afraid of the torch.

I put some very direct questions to the agent and she is talking to the underwriters and it looks like I can be insured under the ceramic studio art insurance program. We shall see. I will let you all know how it goes.

She said different areas have somewhat different policies but I will report back on what it is for northern ca. Keeping my fingers crossed.;-)

Lorraine

Torched Art

2010-03-18, 12:47pm

I spoke to a rep from state farm, and they wouldn't invest a minute on the issue and sent me off to another agency.

If it works out for you, would you please forward me the agent's contact info?

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-18, 1:22pm

You bet I will...isn't it funny or sad actually how we can't seem to get the same answers all of the time from the same companies?!!!

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-19, 10:40am

Okay, Good news and just a little bad news. The good news is you can have a lampworking studio in the house and have it insured through State Farms ( Do not use state Farm see post #24 )ceramic studio criteria.

The underwriters at State Farm said they were familiar with lampworking so no probs!!=D>:grin:

The bad news is they absolutely will not let you teach! PERIOD!!

I am a happy camper so far. I will come back later and post the costs etc.
Lorraine

Torched Art

2010-03-19, 11:23am

Zoiks! This is such an effort to find a place that provides anything for our craft. Ugh!

Here is what I have found so far...

The Hartford via ISGB
$425/year this includes teaching and shows $1 mil. They have been around for 200 years so they are very financially stable. You can call Liberty Mutual, Kim in California 858-268-9400. She is at C Lee Williams and Assoc, Inc.

Stratus Insurance
$250 / year + % from your state not sure what it covers yet (if you make under 50K/yr) (It sounded to be minimal coverage, not like $1 mil)
Contact Natasha 866-395-1308
This is thru the Craft Artist Group

State Farm wouldn't talk to me, we will see what you come up with for that.

USI from the Tenessee Association for Crafters
Still no word, the Ins Rep no longer works there, website down, just frustration so far
Roomer has it around $300 per year.

This is what I have after a week and a half of emails, phone calls, faxes, and talking back and forth with 30 people. Ugh! I am still waiting on further quotes and information and details. But in a nut shell this is what I have.

I'm happy to know I can be covered for about $30 + a month.

I will post again with further information when I get it.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-19, 11:51am

I have the Hartford (which I am dropping next week, see post #24) for my autos..I will check into that one also.

Yes! It is a rollercoaster ride! Mainly because one office says yes, one says No.

Thank-you so much for digging in with me. Maybe we can get it all figured out and get insurance for all that want it.

Lorraine

MaryAnn

2010-03-19, 11:58am

Great topic, glad I stopped in!

My lampwork studio was insured with State Farm years ago. Before that I had insurance through the American Crafts Council (they might still offer it, not sure). When I first switched to State Farm they didn't have a clue what lampworking was (it was many years ago). My agent came out and took detailed pictures of my entire set-up to send off to the underwriters. At the time I had told her, if anything, it was more closely related to a metalsmith, as in jewelry store jeweler. I also told her that as long as the torch was attached to the worktable it was probably safer than a jeweler's torch which is picked up, set down, waved around, etc.

For those of you whose insurance doesn't have a clue about lampwork I suggest you might want to try the "same as a jeweler" approach. This type business is everywhere, including retail storefronts. When State Farm first suggested putting me in the ceramic/pottery heading, the price for insurance was enormous. They "assumed" that everyone in this category had huge gas-fired kilns. Thankfully it appears from what you've said they've learned a bit!

Also, you might want to take detailed pictures of your work set-up, etc. and ask your agent to submit them to the underwriters. It might help.

loribeads

2010-03-19, 9:00pm

Mine is thru the ISGB and is over $900 a year! I think I'm getting reamed. :(

Leanne

2010-03-19, 10:19pm

outside on a patio no insurance

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-20, 11:26am

Well, Apparently you can find insurance but will they pay? Will they pay without putting you through the wringer? Pam Dugger helped me to realize that most companies won't pay claims..period!. Stare Farm and The Hartford
are terrible. So I will be looking to move my insurance from The Hartford
where I have my auto inurance right now and I will NOT be using State Farm for any reason.

http://www.badfaithinsurance.org/indexdetaillist.html

Thank-you Pam. I am now looking for high ranking insurance, yes I might pay more but I'd rather be with a reliable company that has more promise of paying.

So now I am looking at the top ranked companies and I am amazed at what I am finding, the ones I thought I would use after researching them fully they are not an option any more. #-o

I think I will go with one of the four top rated companies for home and auto and probably use ISGB like Lori and others. At least they know what we do. ](*,)](*,) Lori, I think you have chosen wisely for studio insurance...

I will report back with any New news but probably Monday after I can make some more calls.

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-20, 11:35am

Leanne, I tried that! Too hot and windy and buggy with skeeters in the summer, Too cold and wet and windy with skeeters in the winter, and since this is Red Bluff, California we don't have spring or fall, just hot or cold!](*,)

That was my first choice though...:-D

Hugs
Lorraine

Torched Art

2010-03-20, 8:41pm

Well darn. Hartford was top on my list. Wasn't that a buzz kill. Maybe we should start calling the "good" list.

CO_Phantom

2010-03-20, 9:02pm

I have State Farm for homeowners and auto insurance. I have never had any issues with them paying any claims. I have had water damage when dishwasher exploded, and 2 roofs done (destroyed by hail).

My car had some work done when I hit a coyote. Totally covered. My pickup had a hit and run and was covered by State Farm as well. Nothing where they were totalled or anything, but each claim was around $1000 for the autos.

I have never had them not pay a claim.

I would like info on why that website (FBIC) put them on the wall of shame. I like details and specifics. Insurance companies are all about saving themselves money (just ask health insurance...), so we shouldn't be surprised.

But I just wanted to toss in I have not had any issues with State Farm and I have had them for over 10 years.

-Amy

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-20, 9:29pm

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-21, 8:36am

Very interesting link. Scroll down to where it says Insurance News in big red letters and you will find a whole list of enlightening reading.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/

Lorraine

CO_Phantom

2010-03-21, 12:48pm

Amy, I don't have details or specifics for you about that website, you will have to ask them directly for details and specifics.

I have however found out about going to the gov. website for the state you live in and looking at the states insurance complaint ratios..Good Grief was I ever surprised when I started comparing them. I have Grange which was a good one and I have The Hartford which is a bad one. Monday I will switch my Auto to go with my Homeowners.

Not all state government websites provide the Insurance complaint ratios though. But just a look on the internet for "claims against a particular company should help you to see if you want to use them or not.

Here is a link to the Consumer Affairs website of complaints against State Farm...at least 15 pages of them..I wouldn't go near State Farm after reading a lot of the complaints and looking at their ratios.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/insurance/statefarm_auto.html

This website had stories that made me laugh. Maybe I'm just a heifer, but I just kept thinking "how can people be so stupid!?" Like waiting 2 months to pay your premiums. Or not getting a receipt to show they are paid. There were lots of issues with those stories.

I think, for me, it helps to know your insurance agent personally. You definitely get answers to questions and additional help when necessary. I was rear-ended several years ago, and State Farm went to bat for me when the at fault party refused to turn it in to their insurance company and wanted to make payments to me. I had the unfortunate experience of totaling a car when I wasn't even driving. A guy had a heart attack while he was driving and hit my car. Anywho, his insurance wanted to claim it as an "act of God" and not pay the claim. It was ridiculous.

In everything you deal with with insurance companies, just know they are after getting the most amount of money and paying out the least amount possible. It's the way they work. So ask questions and make sure you know exactly what you are covered for. (For instance, out here in the midwest, we had a trailer house that was destroyed by water damage. Come to find out we were insured for volcano, but not for water damage...) You have to be a very savvy consumer and not expect that a general policy is going to cover your needs. You need to take the time to have a long chat with your agent to make sure your needs are being met and are in writing.

-Amy

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-21, 1:33pm

[QUOTE=CO_Phantom;2944796]This website had stories that made me laugh. Maybe I'm just a heifer, but I just kept thinking "how can people be so stupid!?"

Yep DH and I were talking about that, how the idiots have made it so we all have to pay more and get less!!!

. (For instance, out here in the midwest, we had a trailer house that was destroyed by water damage. Come to find out we were insured for volcano, but not for water damage...)

You made me splutter my coffee all over the keyboard and I nearly fell off my chair laughing!! We have a volcano just 40 minutes from us and I can get hurricane insurance...:shock: Too funny! Well, sad really.

Thanks Amy, for the words of wisdom...Maybe one day we can get an insurance company that will be able to really help lampworkers across the board and have all of our needs met in one broad coverage policy.??

Amy

Torched Art

2010-03-21, 2:59pm

"Maybe one day we can get an insurance company that will be able to really help lampworkers across the board and have all of our needs met in one broad coverage policy.??"

Maybe there should be an LE group for insurance. I bet if we contact the right place, they would work with a nice size group like us. If they have "soap makers" and "ceramic artist" groups, there has to be a movement worth investigating a "lampworkers group".

From my research, the current ISGB insurance policy is not offering anything being the man who was dealing with ISGB members no longer works there for some reason.

I wonder how many subscribers it takes in order for an insurance company to consider writing up a specific policy. 100, 1000, 10,000 lampworkers?

Donna T.

2010-03-21, 4:17pm

My husband has been an insurance agent for over 20 years. He keeps reminding me as I read him this thread that insurance is regulated by the individual's states and each one is different. My homeowners covers my studio as long as I don't teach or sell here from the property. Which is probably what most lampworkers are doing.

There are limits to jewelry, firearms and collectible (stamps). It's not very expensive to add on to your policy. He just added $4000 for jewelry and it increased our yearly premium by $30. Your agent keeps a record of your appraisals in your files at his office. So if you have a fire and all your appraisals are destroyed your agent and the underwriters still have a copy of them.

According to JD Powers annual report State Farm is ranked #2 in customer satisfaction. Don't know if that is country wide or just in the state of Ga. (my DH does NOT work for State Farm).

He says to ask yourself "are you a good risk? If you were the insurance company would you insure your studio for $300 a year at the risk that you won't have a million dollar claim"?

How many lampworkers do you need for a group policy?
What does a lampworker's studio look like. We all have different size kilns, torches, ventilation issues, every studio is different. There is no general code for lampworking like there is for houses or cars or lives. Studies would have to done showing how many accidents happen in our studios. How many different kinds of accidents? Which ones are the insurance company willing to take a risk on and which ones not? How do you determine who has the safest studio and who doesn't? Too many variable which is proabably why we come back to the original problem of finding insurance to begin with.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-21, 4:18pm

I thought the Fournier group was still offering insurance through ISGB for lampworkers but only in some states?

I am still working on the differences between business coverages and commercial coverages and teaching studio coverages?

I wonder how Frantz, Arrow Springs, Eugene School of glass and Sundance among others are able to insure for teaching?

Wonder what kind of policies and how many policies they have combined to make themselves fully insured, or if they are under insured and do not know it? I wonder just how many lampworking teaching studios even know what exactly their policies cover?

Maybe time to start to asking them? I think we might be stepping on toes though...:poke:

Lorraine...still searching:wink:

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-21, 4:29pm

Thanks Donna, we all know how frustrating it is to hear someone say they are fully covered and yet we can't get the same thing by the same company!

We also struggle because our lampworking studios have really taken off in the last 5-10 years so we are newbies and I don't think the industry has found a niche for us and therefore since we don't fit in a pre sorted classified slot we sorta get left to the mercies of the agents and underwriters.

Some are good some are bad and we just have to do the best we have with the resources we have and that is what I am working on, I am also trying to get people to be aware that at this point we are not regulated and if most of us show responsibility we may never have to be regulated.

It takes me a long time to gather info on one company because I have to look at the overall facts that I find and go from there. I didn't even know I could find facts about performance etc. until a few days ago.

It feels good knowing I have some knowledge and some terminology for my use in determining insurance choices.

I am tickled your DH is listening to you read him this thread. I bet he is one of the "good ones":wink:

Lorraine

Donna T.

2010-03-21, 4:54pm

I am tickled your DH is listening to you read him this thread. I bet he is one of the "good ones":wink:

Lorraine

Yea, he's one of the "good ones" in alot of things in life. Insurance just being one of them. I told him to turn down the t.v. and listen to this thread it was about one of his favorite subjects to talk about besides sex! :lol:

Torched Art

2010-03-21, 10:40pm

Donna, thanks for chiming in here.

This is a frustrating challenge.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-22, 7:04pm

Well, here is my conclusion for what its worth...
Homeowners policies and auto policies are pretty straightforward once you learn the lingo.

Lampworkers policies: Basically what I have learned is both parties look the other way when drawing up the papers.
Don't ask too many questions and they won't tell you too many lies. Sad but it is what I found.

I have 4 insurance policies on the table now, none of them cover everything I want them to. Two of them are pretty good but I can't teach, two of them are pretty good and I can teach..um..vaguely..sort of.

E-MAIL FROM ME:
Hi KIm,

I didn't see anything in regard to teaching? or craft shows? I didn't see
anything with regards to it being an in the home artists policy..just
mentioned jewelry and nothing about a warm/hot glass studio?

It was such small print I couldn't see it very well. Maybe fax it to me?

Her response:
Hi Lorraine,

The policy will cover all aspects of jewelry manufacturing including sales.
If there is not an exclusion on the policy, it is a covered operation. You
indicated the teaching would be a very small incidental exposure. The
location of your business is your home address. It does not matter that you
work out of your home, as many business's are run from a home office. I
will fax you a full copy of the proposal for your review.

Please feel free to give me a call to discuss. Thankyou

SO I guess with this policy I am covered for "some" teaching because of no written exclusion and I guess jewelry making at least in my studio involves lampworking, metalsmithing, lapidary etc. That would be all aspects..right? I guess 'sales" would cover shows, craft fairs, sidewalk sales and my tent, equipment and stuff and liabilty for it all to and from...right?

Maybe I'll go with this one and just sorta squint at the forms when I sign on the dotted line!!!:-s

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-26, 11:57am

I actually have 3 insurance companies on the line right now seeing just which one can provide the most for the least $$$ spent. One of the companies is a jeweler's insurance provider.

They are used to expensive torches and torch setups and expensive equipment and lots of silver, gold, etc. So I have my fingers crossed. :-D
I will let you all know what happens.

Lorraine

khammil

2010-03-26, 5:45pm

Out of curiosity, does anybody have experience with Amica homeowner's insurance and coverage for a lampworking studio? My agent gave it some cursory thought a couple of years ago and said I wouldn't need additional coverage as long as I'm not teaching out of the studio and only selling on a "hobbyist" basis, whatever that means. Now I want a deeper analysis, but first I'd like to know if they'll preemptively drop customers for asking...

LisaAF

2010-03-26, 5:47pm

I have made a decision to gather the jewelry room in the bedroom, the metalsmithing area in the garage and the horsetrailer studio all into one studio building in the back yard just so I can have peace of mind by insuring the whole thing as a business.

Or I just might sell everything and go to Hawaaii for a long vacation!!!

Lorraine

You might want to check with your local government on the backyard studio. I work for our township zoning department and our resolution will not allow a "Hobby/in home business" to be in an accessory building unless you get a conditional use permit and the location of the building is 100 feet from any property line.

LisaAF

2010-03-26, 5:54pm

I should add that (at least in Ohio) that a Zoning Administrator may not come onto your property and, without proof, your County Prosecutor can not site you.
However, If you have a grumpy neighbor that that is willing to sign an affidavit and they can prove that you sell your product you can be sited.

Uggg, I need a new job. Sometimes when folks come in my office and begin to tell me they are doing this or that (noone is complaining about them) I sometimes stop them and ask them to please not tell me.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-26, 8:47pm

I am in the county outside of the city limits so not many restrictions. I have all my I's dotted and my T's crossed. I have checked into all the legalities. Just trying to get the insurance nailed down here.

Lorraine

glasslass2

2010-03-27, 5:19am

Lorraine, can I ask you what companies would insure you and not let you teach? I'm still in the process of setting up my studio, so I know I'd never need ins to teach. This whole thread has me thinking about the insurance aspect, which is something that never occured to me before. I would just feel better if I knew I had protection.

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-27, 11:18am

It depends on your location. In california they seem to be very strict where as on the eastern seaboard some states the insurances are very easy going.

Right now they are covering lampworkers mostly with a ceramic studio clause. That is okay as long as there are no exclusions ( like for the torch) it may still be against your home owners policy and would cancel that policy.

Catch 22's everywhere...so to be safest just subscribe to this thread and get email notifications for new posts and I will post the ones that work out for me. It is the best we can do for now..but I am very hopeful about the Jewelers insurance but it may be too pricey.

Right now we hit a snag as we are not being allowed to put up a studio shed! We are in a flood zone so they have decided we need to go through FEMA!!!!! So that leaves us with only the garage to work with or a bigger trailer of some sort...or to sell this house and move to another area.

If you can get an older used trailer, cargo hauler or toy hauler, or concession trailer that would be best because they are separate, can be moved, do not take up to much room, have electricity and propane is easy to adapt. and they are easy to insure and easy to prove it's a real business for tax purposes.

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler

2010-03-29, 12:56pm

Here are the contacts for companies I was working with in case anyone needs them.
Safeco- ceramics/artist policy
Safeco is the company that Fournier uses for ISGB. You don't need to be a member to get this insurance.

Nor-cal Pacific ( just heard back from them, they won't insure the home if you have a kiln in the garage.)

RLI Insurance

C.LE williams and associates ( be forewarned they use the Hartford)

That's all I have for now and some of these people have not emailed me back with firmed up yes's or no's.

Lorraine

Torched Art

2010-04-27, 10:15am

Any updates on insurance? Any good suggestions?

Lorraine Chandler

2010-04-27, 5:10pm

Well, the best I can come up with is what I will do for myself so just a general coverage for home, a general coverage for the studio as a craft business doing shows with extra liability.

The business insurance will be a jewelry craft insurance that will follow me to shows etc. I will carry a $2,000,000 liability just in case and it is only about $34.00 more a year.

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler

2011-02-01, 11:47pm

Thought I would bump this to renew interest and maybe help some newbies?

I will be doing the insurance search again as we are putting a tuff shed up for my studio in a month or so...NOT looking forward to the insurance search...again.:hide:

Anyone else have anything new to add?

lorisue

2011-02-02, 11:58am

This is a good subject to bring back around. Question: When you talk to the insurance agent are you stating you have a home business, craft workshop or artist?

Charli!

2011-02-02, 12:18pm

I put barn and not insured- I work mostly outside on the patio, so there isn't really anything to insure! The patio isn't next to the house- I'd struggle to damage anything! Only thing I'd lose would be my glass and tools.

Lorraine Chandler

2011-02-02, 2:45pm

This is a good subject to bring back around. Question: When you talk to the insurance agent are you stating you have a home business, craft workshop or artist?

They keep wanting to put us under ceramic studio which is probably for the best. Some want to put us in the crafts slot. It is just a matter of determining which would be best. I am still getting a headache from it all...LOL

Jewelry studio insurance is high because of the silver and gold they think goes with it.

Detached studio, hobby for now, but if I want to teach it has to go business, then the city wants a chunk of all of my equipment to tax. It really gets convoluted!!

2tumblingdragonz

2011-02-02, 4:15pm

After a long day on the phone and several calls my insurance company will cover me for non business under my rental policy. It is about educating them about the equipment. Kiln makes them think huge ceramics kiln rather than annealer. Single fuel torch like a brazer or a pipe cutter from home depot is a different story than a glory hole.
Also, my father owns my condo, I rent from him. They told me no. I asked him to call to see if I could set up in his basement. They said yes he could use the equipment at his home. He asked if he could use it here since he owns this place. The guy called me and looked up my chili pepper kiln and said it's an annealer??? and said he saw no difference in my torch or one he'd use to cut pipe.
I have been praising my angels.....
and way to go Dad --gotta give him props--:)

lisa@lo.and.behold

2011-02-02, 8:53pm

I just posted my first studio pic over on the Studio forum and I will be telling more about my story as time goes on - here and on my blog. I wanted everything to be official and above board from the very beginning. I have homeowners from Amica. The customer service who I spoke to on the phone talked to an underwriter who asked me a lot of questions about my kiln, flashback arrestors, ventilation and whether I was having work done under permit by a licensed contractor (I was). They said it was OK as long as it wasn't a business. They said that being a hobby doesn't mean you can't ever sell anything but that you can't have the intention of making a profit. They sent me a letter that I have on file documenting our conversation and their permission to continue our coverage with my lampwork studio in the house.

Now, don't get me started on dealing with the state of MA and the gas inspector! But in the end, I prevailed and I will share that info in another post.

OH, one more thing about Amica: we have been insured by them (car, home, liability) for a long time and they have paid several claims very easily. They were originally recommended to us by my father-in-law who spent his career in the insurance biz.

Good luck to all! It's better to be safe than sorry!

Yellow Dog Girl

2011-02-03, 1:53pm

I'm a bit with Amy on this one: it's about building a relationship. I've had State Farm for YEARS and have never had ANY problems. But, we know our insurance agent. We don't jump from company to company to company in the hope of saving a few bucks. We have ALL of our insurance with him, and we MAKE SURE he KNOWS it. When we file a claim, we call JB, not State Farm.

And, something else: any time you use a website you have to be very careful to know exactly who is behind (literally and figuratively) the site. For example, the Consumer Affairs website is a dot-com, meaning they are in it for a profit (and who contributes to that profit?); the other site is a dot-org, but that simply means that they aren't in it in a capitalistic way, and we all know there are many currencies other than money. Does anybody remember the name Ullja Kuntz?

Lorraine Chandler

2011-04-13, 10:24am

Again, insurance agents are NOT the underwriters. Agents do not know everything and they sometimes assume. having a great relationship with your agent is wonderful ( we have had ours since the 1940's) but they are not the underwriters.

The ONLY way you will know for sure is to have a three way conversation with the agent and the underwriter at the same time.

The minute you say open flame and or kiln you will be getting the complete attention of the underwriter especially if you have the studio in the house or in the garage that is attached to the house. Your insurance will probably be cancelled. Insurance for the normal household is for normal usage.

Until you actually speak with the underwriters and have checked the exclusions written into your policy you probably are not properly insured.

So to be sure

1. Check with the underwriter yourself or have a three way conference call with the agent, be sure to ask what a general home owners policy would cover. Make sure you mention torch and kiln. If you say I have a hobby and make glass beads that sounds very mild. But you say you are working with fuels, open flames and a kiln that portrays a very different picture to the underwriters. The very things that are usually exclusions on most general home owners policies.

2. If they say sure it's okay, get it in writing, have them include the torch and kiln and fuels.

3. Once again make sure the underwriters have been informed by your agent.
Make sure your agent tells them exactly what you are doing.

4. Also remember that if you make a profit you are no longer considered a hobby but a business. That also will factor into your policy big time. It opens up a completely different can of worms.

I started this thread to help everyone who wanted to know about insurance coverages and policies, and to help me figure it all out too. I am reviving it for this purpose again as we have lots of new members.

If you feel like you have checked into your policy and are satisfied with it..That's great.

But if you are like most of us and even some members which have been cancelled when they checked into it, knowing for sure is better than the alternative.:shock:

2tumblingdragonz

2011-04-13, 11:08am

Thank you Lorraine, it was this thread that led me to calling my insurance co. I made sure that the approval for hobby lampworking kiln and single fuel torch were written down and included in my policy description. On the record, in the record.
If I become a business, then it's a whole other ballgame, then my insurance co is just an agent to another company that underwrites the policies for businesses for them. It is very confusing and it did take a good part of the day to sort out.
This is important and I'm glad you brought it up again.

Lorraine Chandler

2011-04-13, 4:47pm

truegem

2011-04-14, 1:32am

If you are selling on Etsy, is that considered selling from the home?

junko

2011-04-14, 5:11am

A couple of years ago I got business insurance for my pottery business. We went to an independent agent to totally redo all of our insurance because I was afraid we would get dropped from our current insurance if they knew I had kilns in the house.

Had to have an insurance inspector come and look at the kilns, equipment, etc.

I ended up with the Hartford for my business insurance. Eek! Guess I'll need to do some more research now!

Lorraine Chandler

2011-04-14, 9:15am

If you are selling on Etsy, is that considered selling from the home?

I think selling out of your home means people physically coming to your home to purchase. You have an online business which is home based. You have all of the business paperwork with your home address on it.
Someone correct me here if I am wrong or expound...thanks

A couple of years ago I got business insurance for my pottery business. We went to an independent agent to totally redo all of our insurance because I was afraid we would get dropped from our current insurance if they knew I had kilns in the house.

Had to have an insurance inspector come and look at the kilns, equipment, etc.

I ended up with the Hartford for my business insurance. Eek! Guess I'll need to do some more research now!

I have the Hartford for our autos. I got it through AARP years ago and still have. They have been okay. Nowadays if anything is working for you....just go with it.:razz: But if I WAS LOOKING for new insurance I would go with one of the top rated companies.

jconsidine11

2011-05-13, 7:59am

Thank you Lorraine, this thread has been incredibly helpful!O:)

does anyone know if it is easier to get insurance coverage if you have natural gas as opposed to propane? i am outside Buffalo, NY

Joan:waving:

artsyuno

2011-05-13, 12:10pm

My insurance agent told me I needed a business policy, so that's what I have. I have a separate studio in my yard. If I wasn't selling at all, I could add it to my homeowner's insurance, if I recall correctly.

jconsidine11

2011-05-13, 2:35pm

Thanks, Felicia!
Setting up a studio is harder than I thought:shock:...We will see how it goes....
Joan

artsyuno

2011-05-13, 6:41pm

It is hard. I got very bogged down in different details and decisions while doing mine. I'm happier with some of my decisions than others.

jconsidine11

2011-05-14, 5:13am

I am guessing a lot of folks do a separate shed or barn because insurance won't cover a garage?? I live in a suburban town on a little lot with neighbors real close by. The garage is detached from the house , but is still used to store our cars. I was thinking I would just back the cars out and fire up my torch, hah! Not sooo easy.:cry:
I am trying to see what other people in WNY have come up with..unfortunately i have got to have insurance. When I lived in NH and was doing this, I don't think we were insured......Different place and different times
Joan

Sadie Mae

2011-05-14, 11:33am

Yikes--now I don't even want to torch today until I check my policy!!

THANKS truly for all the great info though--appreciate all your hard work and harder questions. I will have a great list to ask from because of your efforts!
Smiles, Sheri

brian964

2011-05-15, 3:20am

In my experience it is cheaper getting quotes online. Some of the top insurance companies offer discounts when ordering online, because it is less work for them. But to be safe you could compare rates online, pick the best offer and try a local agency to see if they can match it or do better: www.quotes-center.com (http://www.quotes-center.com)

Mountain Snail

2011-09-08, 10:10pm

I was more concerned with liability for shows and for products so I went with this: http://www.actinspro.com/ Plus we have property insurance through another company that I called and told what I was doing. They suggested I get product liability too, which they did not offer, because people are lawsuit happy these days, which is why my hair dryer says not to use it in the shower. :lol:

If you get the annual plan, it covers product liability. My stuff in in a shed, I checked metal outbuilding but mine is part glass, and wood with a double work bench fully encased in metal (huge fume cabinet). Propane is outside, like it should be too. I will not torch in my house because I don't want little glass bits getting dragged around by my pets and scratching up my floor or cutting feet.

Mountain Snail

2011-09-08, 10:14pm

Here is Stratus' main website. http://www.stratusins.com/

Dreamsincolor

2011-10-10, 8:01pm

I don't think my answer would be of much help to anybody else because my situation is a bit unique. Our building is on Main St and was at one time a restaurant in one part of it. Getting insurance was easy for the first floor because A. natural gas versus tanked propane, B. a fire suppression system left from the restaurant (my torch area is in the area that was the kitchen) and C. the fire marshal approved the rewiring and updated safety work my DH did. The PITA part was getting home coverage for the apartment we turned the second floor into for living quarters. Go figure...Even though we are the only occupants in any part of the entire 8,000 square feet of space we easily got coverage as soon as we had the building permitted as condo.

Lorraine Chandler

2011-10-10, 10:14pm

Sounds like a terrific setup! 8-)

Dreamsincolor

2011-10-11, 4:47am

We're still working on the apartment upstairs. It was a hotel on that side of the building and we still have to work on that side. The building was built in 1883 so you can imagine some of the updating that has to be done. Know anybody who'd like a couple of claw foot tubs for free? We're trying to use as much of original materials as we can, but two tubs are plenty, LOL It's really two buildings that share a roof. My studio is on one side downstairs and we use the other side as gallery space for artists to share and hopefully we can get some classes going. The dream is to get a glass blowing area set up in another building, if we can ever find anyone in the area who'd like to teach in exchange for free use of the facilities.

Lorraine Chandler

2011-11-10, 8:07pm

If you weren't in Missouri I would be all over the claw foot tubs..LOL Good Luck and post pics when you can?:waving:

SunDoorBeads

2011-11-13, 6:02pm

Hi there I am in South Florida and they told me that since I was using equipment that was approved to be in the space I am in (on my back porch) that I was covered under my normal HW policy. If I upgraded to a tanked oxy or a larger "not for home use" oxycon or to a HUGE bulk propane then I would need to pursue a separate policy for "business" related issues- HOWEVER if I move these things indoors or the garage I HAVE to have a policy since those areas are considered high risk. Basically until I move or make more than I am making dollar wise (I do not teach) I do not need an additional policy- My DH is considering having a rider just in case but as it stands now I do not need one- I know that our laws in FL are very different though. In VA where I am from I would have had to have an additonal policy my sister checked for me.

Hope this helps