Cheetah question

[ocdlampwork]

I have had a Cheetah on my wish list ever since I hooked up my Bobcat about three years ago. I'm not far away from reaching my savings goal, if I can quit buying cool new glass:oops: , so I'm planning on taking the plunge.
My questions is wether this is a recommended torch. I want if to expand on my boro work. Small paperweights and marbles and this torch fits nicely into my price range right now. I just can spend $800 to $1000 right now. GTT torches have great reputations but , on the whole, you don't hear much about the Cheetah. Is there a reason?
I've got the two concentrators and am thinking of tanked possibly. Depends on the results I get with the two concentrators.
Thanks for any help!

Tracey

[kbinkster]

I run a Cheetah on an Integra10.

You're right. There's not a lot of chat about the Cheetah. That may be because it has only been out a few years and there are many more Lynxs and Bobcats.

[ocdlampwork]

How do you think it would do on two concentrators? Would tanked or generator be better? Sure it would be better. LOL! What I mean is do you think it would perform o.k. on the concentrators?
Tracey

[kbinkster]

I have only run it on the one Integra10. Wally ran it on an Onyx+, and it did o.k., but not as good as the Integra. I don't know how it would run on two concentrators (I'm guessing you mean two 5 lpm units). It all depends on the pressure it puts out, not just volume.

Maybe someone with experience running a Cheetah on two concentrators will chime in. I would love to tell you that it would run great on them, but I really don't know that for sure and I certainly don't want to tell you anything that isn't true. I'll ask Wally tomorrow if he has heard back from anyone using two concentrators and a Cheetah.

[ocdlampwork]

Yes, both are the 5lpm. My First is a DeVilbiss work horse and it puts out some serious pressureitself. I added the Airsep because I wanted more heat plus a back-up. Heaven forbid I can't torch because something breaks down.:grin:
I appreciate anything you can find out. I hate to invest in the torch and not have the means to run it properly.

Tracey

[pam]

I can give you a little information. First, I tried a Cheetah on an Onyx+ and it would not run to my way of using it. It also wouldn't run for more than 6 minutes on an OG 15 with a holding tank. Do you know what psi your 5lpm concentrators put out? The pressure that I ran my Cheetah at on tanked oxy was 18. I just got the new OG 20 and it runs great on it. So, I have added my complete knowledge base, for what it's worth.

BTW, I LOVE my Cheetah!!

[IF-Designs]

I tried to run my cheetah on 2 companion 590s it worked but I could NOT get a full range of flames with it. Now that im on tanked wow what a huge difference! Id say if you can swing it go tanked or get the cheetah $550 and save a lil more to get a higher PSI oxy con thinger they have a P10 and a P20 out now....

[ocdlampwork]

I can give you a little information. First, I tried a Cheetah on an Onyx+ and it would not run to my way of using it. It also wouldn't run for more than 6 minutes on an OG 15 with a holding tank. Do you know what psi your 5lpm concentrators put out? The pressure that I ran my Cheetah at on tanked oxy was 18. I just got the new OG 20 and it runs great on it. So, I have added my complete knowledge base, for what it's worth.

BTW, I LOVE my Cheetah!!

I want to say my DeVilbiss, the work horse, is 10psi and the Airsep is something like 7 to 9. I do know the guy I bought them from said the DeVilbiss gave me the max output and pressure and the additional one would only give me a bit more heat since the main one was doing all the work. Does this make sense? To be honest, there is a difference in temp. with the second hooked up but not a whole lot. I was doing boro beads (15mm. or so in size) just fine with only one. Then again, I feel like I'm losing a lot with all that tubing that connects the two concentrators. DH is supposed to set me up with a better way to connect the two without so much tubing and connectors. I may notice more of a difference and my Bobcat may seem like a new torch.\\:D/
It's nice to hear positives about the Cheetah because I've pretty much been single minded in my next torch. I love GTT and I want a faster cat.:badgrin:

Tracey

[IF-Designs]

my bobcat ran great on 2 oxy cons! I could do lots of boro beads on that :) I just wanted to be able to go bigger and do larger marbles and stuff :) so I got the cheetah which I really really love.

[jokersdesign]

If it was me and I needed a bigger torch then a GTT Lynx but a smaller torch then a GTT Mirage and money was and issue I'd keep saving and get a Bethlehem Barracuda over a GTT cheetah. The other torch I would consider is a GTT Phantom but at $1200 compared to the Barracuda at $750, the barracuda is more for your money.

I have a used a barracuda torch with 2 devilbiss concentrators and it works great. If you need more pressure you can open the case and on the side is a knob to increase the pressure up to 18-20 PSI. Don’t worry about people saying your concentrator won’t last as long at higher PSI and the oxygen purity will be less because that is just not the case.

I have run two 5 LPM concentrators at 18-20 PSI for 9 months and they work great still. I bought an oxygen analyzer to test my units and the oxygen measures at 96-98% every time at 18-20 PSI after start up, after hours of use and after I’m done torching and about to turn the units off.

The only reason why these units are set at a lower pressure is because the manufactures didn’t intent for these units to be used for glass. They were made for humans to breath and they did not want to fill the old people’s lungs with oxygen at 18-20 PSI. These concentrator’s internal components, lines and valves are more then capable of handling the higher pressure.

The next thing I plan on doing is installing a bigger compressor so I can get more LPM output then the 5 LPM. This is basically what the new concentrators P10 and P20 are.

[Cosmo]

The main complaint I have about the Cheetah is that it's not a two stage torch. All the ports are on all the time, so it's harder to get a small flame (kind of like a Carlisle Wildcat). For about the same money you can get a Bethlehem Barracuda, or for a little more money you can get a GTT Phantom or Bethlehem Tiger Shark. All of those are two stage torches and offer a lot more versatility than the Cheetah.

[pam]

You know, Chad, I can certainly understand where you are coming from in your statements, but none of the torches you recommend work for me because of the small inner flame. Now, that doesn't mean they won't work for someone else, but a small inner flame is virtually useless to me and the large outer flame is just a little less than useless. The size flame I get with the Cheetah for what I do and how I use it is perfect and it is the only thing that works this well for me. I find the Cheetah flame to be very versatile and I am able to dial in any size flame I want, small or large, but that is just me and you can certainly have another experience.

[kbinkster]

The main complaint I have about the Cheetah is that it's not a two stage torch. All the ports are on all the time, so it's harder to get a small flame (kind of like a Carlisle Wildcat). For about the same money you can get a Bethlehem Barracuda, or for a little more money you can get a GTT Phantom or Bethlehem Tiger Shark. All of those are two stage torches and offer a lot more versatility than the Cheetah.
True, the Cheetah is not a two-staged torch, but it's not harder to get a small flame. Not harder at all! The tiny flame on a Cheetah is more of a carrot shaped little flame than a pinpoint, but you can still work detail with it. All you have to do is use the red and blue valve with the green valve barely cracked open. Simple. The oxygen pushes the flame into a tight shape to get a smaller flame. You can dial in a good range of flame shapes on the Cheetah.

I think you'll also find that a Cheetah can get hotter than a Barracuda (flame-wise). The Cheetah is hotter than a Lynx, and the Lynx was proven to be hotter than the Barracuda.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172152&highlight=barracuda
Having that kind of penetrating heat is very important when doing paperweights.

I guess it all depends on how a person wants to work and what features are most important.

[Lisi]

That's the info I was looking for, so if the Cheetah is hotter than the Barracuda, then that is the torch I want. :D

But I wonder if I can run one with my generator? It's an Airsep AS-12A that puts out 18psi and it has a small holding tank. I think the LPM is 15, not sure. All I know, is that this machine (very expensive, $2400) is overkill for my Bobcat.

Problem is that I don't know anyone who has a generator like mine, and not only that, but someone who uses it with a bigger torch. :sad:

[IF-Designs]

Lisa you should definately be able to run it on that....Im pretty dam sure the PSI is definately high enough....

[kbinkster]

Tracey, I asked Wally if he has heard from anyone using two 5 lpm concentrators on a Cheetah, and he has not. My Integra10 puts out 9psi at 10 lpm and it runs the Cheetah. Of course, the more pressure, the better. And if you are looking to do big boro work, you will be happier with a generator that puts out a higher psi or tanked oxygen.

[Lisi]

Tracey, I asked Wally if he has heard from anyone using two 5 lpm concentrators on a Cheetah, and he has not. My Integra10 puts out 9psi at 10 lpm and it runs the Cheetah. Of course, the more pressure, the better. And if you are looking to do big boro work, you will be happier with a generator that puts out a higher psi or tanked oxygen.

Wow, thanks! So I see that my generator is more than enough for this torch! It is a little wild with the Bobcat though, and like I said, definitely overkill. If I turn up the oxygen too much I get these really weird, hissy, and very long curved candle flames. (looks like a flower, weird!) I have it set at 13psi, but I still have to be careful with too much 02.

[ocdlampwork]

Hmmm. I'm going to take a loot at my concentrators and do a bit of fiddling.:-$ If I can get the PSI up there then I'll still be able to buy and run the torch AND save money for the generator.:wink: This definitely works for me!
Thanks to all of you!

Tracey

[kbinkster]

Hmmm. I'm going to take a loot at my concentrators and do a bit of fiddling.:-$ If I can get the PSI up there then I'll still be able to buy and run the torch AND save money for the generator.:wink: This definitely works for me!
Thanks to all of you!

Tracey
Tracey, I sure would hate for you to mess up your concentrators. You might be voiding any warranty you may have by doing those adjustments. Even if you figure out how to boost your pressure while maintaining good purity, you are still looking at pushing air through those seive beds at pressures they were not necessarily designed to handle. If those seive beds go, you could be looking at a big mess.

[Mr. Smiley]

That's the info I was looking for, so if the Cheetah is hotter than the Barracuda, then that is the torch I want. :D

But I wonder if I can run one with my generator? It's an Airsep AS-12A that puts out 18psi and it has a small holding tank. I think the LPM is 15, not sure. All I know, is that this machine (very expensive, $2400) is overkill for my Bobcat.

Problem is that I don't know anyone who has a generator like mine, and not only that, but someone who uses it with a bigger torch. :sad:

On two M-20's, I think the Cuda is hotter. May not be true for tanks, but in my situation, the Cuda gets the nice bright even blue super hot flame. The cheetah is hot, but lacking that perfect heat. ;)

[kimberly]

Tracy,
If there is ANY way you can go and try out the torches you are thinking of buying, do it. We all have our preferences, for many different reasons. I am not sure the amount of heat is the only issue with torch selection (the WC post might lead you to believe this is the case). The flame characteristics, shape, size, etc will be different for all of the torches mentioned. Your particular work style may fit one of the torches better than the other. My work style fits a Baraccuda. The work style of others fits GTT torches better. Determine what you NEED as far as heat AND flame characteristics, try out the torches and go from there.

IMHO, we all tend to love, defend and promote what we have and know well. Also, Take Pam's advise to heart. Her experience is coming from a user perspective as opposed to a vendor perspective.