What kind of frit for 104 coe beads?

[ShellyJo1969]

So can you use any kind of frit with 104 coe beads or does it have to be 104 coe frit?

On one of the popular frit sites it stated that it was 96-98 frit or something like that and that it worked with 104coe beads. I don't know how that would be compatible?

[Beadanna]

There is an ratio of maybe 5 - 10% of 96 coe frit to the base bead of 104 coe. That shouldn't be incompatible.

[Kevan]

Shell, are you aware there is a search function on this forum?

These questions have been asked and answered many, many times. lol

[ShellyJo1969]

yes I always use the search function. I didn't locate the answer to this question though.
Where is it i wonder? (the answer)

[GlassGalore]

Here's one place: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154913&highlight=frit+104

[ShellyJo1969]

THanks Lisa. Well what I learned from that is that IF you use any frit other than what your rod coe is, you are totally taking the chance that it'll crack.

The reason I'm confused about it is that on the frit websites most of them claim that you can use the 96 or 98 frit with the 104coe glass, but that's not what I'm getting from the discussions everyone is having here from their experiences?

[J. Savina]

I only put 96 frit on top of 104 in a small amount 5 - 10%. I rarely get 104 to play nice when it is encasing 96. I think if your' going to hide the glass with 96 frit, your best bet is to use a 96 base color. Less risk. Just my experience.

J.

[ShellyJo1969]

So far I'm only messing with 104 glass so I'm going to play it safe and stick with 104 frit. The only place I can find a very good supply of it is GG Glass. They have really pretty blends but it's costly. But then I've never seen "cheap" frit anywhere cause it does not exist! :)

[GlassGalore]

I've actually had pretty good luck (?) with using the 96 furnace glass frits (Val Cox, Glass Diversions, Dragonfly Glassworks) on 104 base beads, and have loaded it on in some cases, so don't be too scared to try them. Just don't 'sandwich' the 96 frit by encasing... I'd agree with J Savina on that being riskier.

Here are a few examples where I've really almost covered the base bead and had no cracking issues. You really can get some decent coverage while staying in the 'safety zone' of 5 -10%. ;)

Val Cox "Forest Nymph" on a Light Sky Blue 104 base
210168

Note the middle set where I let the frit really melt on and then drooped / swirled the glass around to get it really spread out. Again... 94 -96 frit on a 104 base.
203142

Dragonfly's "Alchemy", swirled on a 104 base:
210655

[Frit Diva]

Hi Shelly~

I routinely use 96 coe frit with 104 glass, and it is quite rare for me to lose a bead to cracking ... maybe one bead out of 300 or more. I do occasionally encase over frit, and that hasn't been a problem either. I believe the success of combining 96 and 104 comes from not exceeding the 5-10% rule, as stated above, but also from working the glass slowly, and keeping it in the flame until both types of glass have a chance to "get to know eachother." I realize this isn't a scientific approach, but it's been working well for me for a long time!


Jo

p.s. Nice beads, Lisa! I love the colors and the soft feel of the beads.

[GlassGalore]

Thanks Jo! ;)

[TBC Beads]

As mentioned, encasing is dicey. I've had it work, and have had some beautiful beads crack horribly. If you stick to just using it on the surface, my feeling is you'll have no problems. I can add Gaffer frit to the list of those 94-96's used on 104 with no major issues.

PS - Lisa, I agree, those are very pretty frit beads! I'm a sucker for Alchemy, I have to admit. ;)

[Lisi]

For the last several years I have preferred to use size #0 or #00 furnace glass frit on 104COE. I get really paranoid about incompatibilities because I have made and sold a LOT of beads over the last 7 years. A LOT...and I have yet to get a report back that any of my beads ever broke.

One set that I make regularly has size #1 frit on two shades of Moretti, and (knock on wood) they have never broke. I have some test beads of different sizes and shapes lying around made with the combo about 5 years back, and they are still intact. I do use a lot of size #1 frits, but on 96COE. I just wish Uroboros was a little more dense though.

Oh, and I never encase any beads made with furnace glass frit. Well, I don't encase beads anyway, and even if I did I would only use all "like glass" from the same line. I'm just overly cautious, I suppose.

[Lisi]

I forgot to mention that the first 2 years I made beads for ebay (which was a heck of a lot of beads!) I used size #1 furnace cane frits on Effetre and Vetrofond, without encasing. Never had any reports of breakage. :)

I remember using Val Cox's frit on Effetre base colors like clear, white, black, pearl grey, ivory, lt sky blue, lt and dk turquoise, opal yellow, and one of the albasters - dark periwinkle. I used Purple Rose #0 on that albaster. I still have some of those beads and they are fine.

[villa design]

Weird... I've always encased 96 frit with 104 clear. I haven't had any cracking issues. But then again, my encasing is very thick so maybe it helps in terms of the ratio? This one is a Val Cox frit.


167800

[ShellyJo1969]

Beautiful beads! Thanks for the input. Well I don't know. I'll probably be extra cautious at first and stick with 104 frits, but I might branch out after a while. :)Thanks

[TBC Beads]

There's something else to consider other than just matching CoEs. Here are two pictures of the same 94-96 frit used on 96 and 104 base glass. Notice the difference in how the frit behaves...when I matched the CoEs, I got a much softer, blended look. With the differing CoEs, though, there were more defined edges to the frit spots. (I'm assuming the black lines around some of the spots are due to a reaction between the frit glass and the Ivory base.) The colors themselves even look different in this particular instance. Depending on your design and the base glass you're using, you might want one look over another.

This is a Gaffer frit on Effetre Ivory (104):
210860

And here's the same frit on Gaffer Cream (96):
210861

[Moth]

The reason people say that the furnace glass frits (96 coe) are compatible with 104 coe glass is because they have a high metal content...lead...which acts as a sort of 'flux' between the two types of glass.

I guess the easiest way to describe it would be to say it makes the glass less brittle, it bends to the other glass' expansion instead of cracking outright...it gives a little.

So technically NO...they aren't "compatible" it is more that they just tolerate each other if you don't push your luck.

Don't be too heavy handed with the frit and you should be ok. I don't do it a lot, but sometimes you want a color or effect that you can only get one way and I'll risk it for that.

There are lots of great colors in effetre, vetrofond and lauscha (and other 104 coe glass brands) that you could blend your own frit mixes and have plenty of fun that way.

~~Mary

[Lisi]

I'm going to try Spectrum 96 white sheet glass for my frit swirl beads and I hope it's a nicer white than the rods. Wish me luck with cutting this stuff into strips and not going bonkers trying to do it!

[carolinainmymind]

There's something else to consider other than just matching CoEs. Here are two pictures of the same 94-96 frit used on 96 and 104 base glass. Notice the difference in how the frit behaves...when I matched the CoEs, I got a much softer, blended look. With the differing CoEs, though, there were more defined edges to the frit spots. (I'm assuming the black lines around some of the spots are due to a reaction between the frit glass and the Ivory base.) The colors themselves even look different in this particular instance. Depending on your design and the base glass you're using, you might want one look over another.



This is REALLY great information!!! THANKS!!!

[villa design]

Oooh Pam, I love the soft buttery color of that cream and the frit!

[TBC Beads]

Oooh Pam, I love the soft buttery color of that cream and the frit!

Thanks, Melissa! I adore Gaffer Cream. While I love the Ivories from Effetre in all their reactive glory, there's a lot to be said for a smooth, creamy ivory color that's stable.

I swore I wouldn't buy anymore Gaffer until my studio is built. At that point, though, it's fair game!

[ShellyJo1969]

I just wanted to do an update and say that I bought some 104 frit from the Frit Fairies. I really love it! I highly recommend it to whomever is in need of 104 frit. Good color choices and combinations and fair pricing.