Best torch for natural gas.

[Boopdidoop]

Having received the go ahead from my hubby to move up from a HH to an oxy torch I am contemplating the easiest way to set this up in my home. Since natural gas is right above my work table it seems practical to use it instead of drilling through the house and putting propane outside near where the neighborhood kids play (I'm in an average subdivision with houses close by). I currently keep my tank inside but have been reminded about the safety issues. I would love your votes for the best torch and oxygen set up. I read in a thread about the Betta, are there others? And there seems to be a pressure issue which I need to overcome? Any info will help!

Thanks,

Peggy :waving:

[Cosmo]

Most of the smaller torches run fine on natural gas. I know Minors do. I remember someone posting that a Mini CC does as well.

[artwhim]

The Lynx does not run on a household natural gas line. I learned the hard way.
Kathy

[Three Muses Glass]

My Mini-CC does fine on NG. No pressure issues at all.

[IF-Designs]

you should be good with the Betta, Minor and Mini CC, they say the bobcat works well to:)

[EmbellishYourself]

Can anyone tell me the differences between the Betta, Minor and Mini CC? Its really hard to make a decision! Thanks! Jenny

[Boopdidoop]

Thanks all....I really am looking at the Betta. Jenny, thats a good question. I would like to know the answer too.

:) Peg

[glasswinder]

I use a minor with NG and an oxycon and love it!!

[Heather/Ericaceae]

I haven't used many of these torches but I've been reading about them for years when I was trying to make my own decision. Here's my summary:

Nortel Minor is really solid, Canadian-made and easy to fit marvers for! Good strong flame, fairly adjustable. Works really well with natural gas and an oxycon, works even better with two. Known as a workhorse, and many classes and instructions are based on Minor use. 7 jets. Was about $170, has probably gone up this year.

Carlisle Mini-CC has a slightly "bushier" flame but can also be adjusted more finely than the Minor for detail work. Works fine on NG but performs better on 2 oxycons than on just 1. Knobs sometimes get hot with just one 'con. 7 jets. $189.90 http://www.carlislemachine.com/CarlisleGlassworking/BurnersAccessories.htm

Betta - The first difference you'll notice when you look at them is the price! Almost $400, minimum $200 more than either of the previous torches. The flame will be slightly hotter but not much bigger. The difference is the flame efficiency - it's able to combust large volumes of fuel at low pressures. It's very O2 efficient as well. 5 jets. http://www.bethlehemburners.com/betta.htm

Piranha is made by the same people as the Betta (Bethlehem) but it's not as fuel-efficient. However, Beths are known for being fuel and oxy-efficient compared to other manufacturers. It was recommended by Kristian of Generations Glass as a great choice for Natural Gas. Some users feel that Beths have a slightly more reducing flame than some other torches. I went with a Piranha for NG and Oxycon and I'm thrilled with it. However, the price has jumped up a lot since the fall and now it's a lot spendy-er than the Mini-CC or Minor - $325 6 jets.
http://www.bethlehemburners.com/piran.htm

Bobcat's made by GTT. They are famous for their powerful, penetrating and highly adjustable flames. The bigger GTT's, ie Lynx and up, are triple mix (gas plus oxy plus oxy again) but the Bobcat is a standard mix. Nice sleek design, cool torch body and strong, clean flame. 7 jets. $195 http://www.glasstorchtech.com/torches.html

***

All these torches will work with soft glass or boro. Most torches will work better for boro with two oxycons, except the Betta which would only really need one. They're all good torches! I think the biggest differences are:

A) Radiant heat (CC is most, I assume Bobcat is least) - do you want to bathe large pieces in flame without shocking, or is it more important to have a cool torch surface and be able to get your fingers closer to the piece? [Note - just to clarify, as kbinkster mentions, all torches have radiant heat! The Mini-CC is just noted for having *more* of it.]

B) Heat - Betta is hottest, not sure about Piranha, Bobcat and Mini-CC (I *think* it's that order) and Minor's definitely coolest by a slight margin. All other things being equal. I think. :)

C) Price - Betta's much pricier than the rest (400). Then Piranha (325). The rest are pretty close (180-190ish).

D) Fuel/Oxy Hunger - Betta, Piranha, Nortel, Mini-CC/Bobcat (tied?) This is pretty important for Natural Gas. They do all work on NG, though!

That's all I've got right now. I've only used the Piranha, so please take my summary of other people's comments over the years with several grains of salt. :) [EDITED - changed the wording on my comments to try to be clearer]

-Heather

[kbinkster]

I would like to say that the Bobcat does not require more oxygen than the other torches mentioned above. It will run nicely on NG and one 5 lpm concentrator. Of course, like any other torch, it will run better on two.

As far as radiant heat... the radiant heat desired for a bathing heat is not the heat radiating from the torch. It is the heat radiating from the flame itself. The Bobcat has a nice big radiant heat envelop - while at the same time, a very cool torch body (thanks to the patented cooling system that some companies are trying to copy).

With standard torches, size/number of jets matters. The Bobcat (a standard torch) has seven jets. This makes it bigger/hotter than a torch with only 6 jets. Spreading out the jets on a torch face does not necessarily make it hotter, either.

[EmbellishYourself]

Thanks so much for all that info! I truly appreciate it. Still a tough choice, I am glad I have a little time to do the research and make my decision. Jenny

[Kalera]

My understanding is that the Betta is essentially the Piranha redesigned to work best on natural gas. Maybe Mr. Smiley can jump in here and answer this one?

[Heather/Ericaceae]

Thanks for your comments, kbinkster. [Edit - I went back and edited my original list to try to address your concerns and be clearer] As I said, it was just a synthesis of posts I've read, trying to pinpoint the differences between torches. I suspect a lot of the differences are very subtle! People can do amazing work on GTTs; that's why I made a point of including it in my list. Another torch I didn't mention is the Knight Little Dragon, which is supposed to be quite good flame-wise, very solid and NG compatible. They didn't answer my email last summer when I was doing my research, though. http://www.nmknight.com/PDF/KB-102-2.pdf
-Heather

I would like to say that the Bobcat does not require more oxygen than the other torches mentioned above. It will run nicely on NG and one 5 lpm concentrator. Of course, like any other torch, it will run better on two.

As far as radiant heat... the radiant heat desired for a bathing heat is not the heat radiating from the torch. It is the heat radiating from the flame itself. The Bobcat has a nice big radiant heat envelop - while at the same time, a very cool torch body (thanks to the patented cooling system that some companies are trying to copy).

With standard torches, size/number of jets matters. The Bobcat (a standard torch) has seven jets. This makes it bigger/hotter than a torch with only 6 jets. Spreading out the jets on a torch face does not necessarily make it hotter, either.

[DesertDreamer]

Just wanted to add one more torch to the mix. I use a Nortel Mid-Range with a top-mounted premix. Runs like a dream on NG and an Onyx+ oxy generator. It's VERY clean, reasonably quiet (except the premix heehee) and while it's not an exceptionally HOT flame, it's a larger flame than the Minor will give you. I love it for working larger soft glass items. It DOES work boro, too. I just bought a 32-hole hush tip (used a 19-hole for 3 years) and it's amazing. I can shape 3/4" and 1" solid rod with no trouble at all.

[Boopdidoop]

Wow, thank you all. Heather, your summary was the best ever! I think my next thread will be about oxy concentrators. I got the price from Bethlehem for the Betta this morning and figure if one oxycon is good enough then I'll make it up by not having to buy a second. They are back ordered 3-4 weeks so I will have time to research the rest of the set up and bribe my plumber with pretty glass beads. Thanks again to everyone!

Peggy

[la•ni•ha]

The Lynx does not run on a household natural gas line. I learned the hard way.
Kathy

Kathy, I have a lynx and have natural gas in the house. I was going to use that as my gas. What pressure did you use? I heard you can get a Natural Gas booster to boost the psi from what normally flows through you house (1/4-1/2 psi boosted up to 2psi) and that it might work. If not, then I guess I might have to 'downgrade' :(

Thanks,
Lauren

[kbinkster]

Lauren, the Lynx can run on as low as 2 psi NG. If you can get your NG boosted to that (by the gas company), you won't need a G-Tech NG booster.

[la•ni•ha]

Lauren, the Lynx can run on as low as 2 psi NG. If you can get your NG boosted to that (by the gas company), you won't need a G-Tech NG booster.
Thank you! I will call them today! That is music to my ears!!!

[dogmaw]

I have both a minor and a betta. I love my betta, and would replace my other minor if I could! With one concentrator it works super for soft glass, and with 2 I have been doing boro sculptures and tubing work.

[Cosmo]

I have both a minor and a betta. I love my betta, and would replace my other minor if I could! With one concentrator it works super for soft glass, and with 2 I have been doing boro sculptures and tubing work.

Hmm... I'm considering a Betta for my home studio as we speak. I'm glad to hear this. I rarely use anything other than boro, so being able to work boro is of utmost importance to me. So, do you think it's hotter than a Minor?