Divide Tutorial and Tutorials to Purchase? [Archive]

jgraff

2010-12-30, 10:05am

I love both the free tutorials and I love the Tutorials the Purchase. I have bought quite of few of them and I love being able to go there to learn a new technique especially when I'm in a creative slump.

What do you think about keeping the Tutorials and the Tutorials For Purchase sections separate? When I'm looking in the Tutorials mostly what I find are advertisements or plugs for the stuff in Tutorials For Purchase. Since all the information is available why do we have the duplicate posts?

When I look at Tutorials it would be nice to just have posts with actual tutorials or pointers to tutorials instead of re-directions to other parts of the forum.

How does every one else feel about that?

jgraff

granny

2010-12-30, 10:18am

Maybe I'm not understanding, but there is a tutorial for purchase
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70
Is this what you mean??

granny

AKDesigns

2010-12-30, 10:33am

What do you think about keeping the Tutorials and the Tutorials For Purchase sections separate? When I'm looking in the Tutorials mostly what I find are advertisements or plugs for the stuff in Tutorials For Purchase. Since all the information is available why do we have the duplicate posts?

When I look at Tutorials it would be nice to just have posts with actual tutorials or pointers to tutorials instead of re-directions to other parts of the forum.

How does every one else feel about that?

jgraff

Yes, I agree it's a problem. I don't see it changing unless Corri cleans it up or appoints a moderator to do it. It would also help if she made these threads deletable by the originator so that people could get rid of all the sale threads cluttering it up. I don't see any of that happening though because it's been brought up a number of times by many people.

jaci

2010-12-30, 2:22pm

Yes! I find myself avoiding this area because of the many misleading posts that SHOULD be in the purchase section.......... :(

The tutorial section has become a comercial.. leading people into posts in the other room. :wtf: This room used to flourish with new and creative tutorials for FREE. Not be littered with BUY ME posts....

(PS tutorials to buy, GREAT, in this room, wrong place, no offense to anyone, just speaking in general) I mouse over something, and if it is to buy, i keep going.... I dont pay any attention to who posted it.. and I would not remember if i bothered to look anyways :lol: )

bluffroadglass

2010-12-30, 2:53pm

You know, I really don't want to annoy anyone by posting about for-sale tutorials here in main tutorials section. But the "Tutorials for Purchase" section is kind of hidden away and easily overlooked, so when I have a new tutorial out, I have been posting at least one announcement here in the main tutorials forum too. I didn't think this was inappropriate because I've seen so many other people posting about their for-sale tutorials in this part of the forum, I suspect because they're afraid their announcements will be overlooked in the "for sale" ghetto, too.

Maybe we could distinguish between paid and free tutorials by posting "free" in the titles of the free ones and "$" in the titles of the for-sale ones. That way, people who don't want to risk accidentally looking at announcements for lampworking publications that they might have to (gasp!) pay for would be able to quickly skim the titles and avoid the for-sale tuts.

Ability to delete posts in this section would be nice, too.

shawnette

2010-12-30, 3:09pm

Kim, I hear what you're saying, but isn't that the whole point of the "Auctions, self promotion, and related things" area?

Laura B

2010-12-30, 3:15pm

Maybe the thread could be cleaned up, and Corri could add a really clear description to the title (like: "Only post information and/or free tutorial news here... if you have a for-sale tutorial, post it in one of the self-promotion threads").

bluffroadglass

2010-12-30, 3:39pm

Kim, I hear what you're saying, but isn't that the whole point of the "Auctions, self promotion, and related things" area?

Yes, and it's the whole point of the "Tutorials for Sale" area, too. But you still have lots of people posting about their for-sale tutorials in here...that's my point. I'll be happy to start confining my tutorial posts to those designated areas as soon as all of the other people who are posting about their "for sale" tutorials here in the main tutorials section do as well.

Laura B

2010-12-30, 3:54pm

Yes, and it's the whole point of the "Tutorials for Sale" area, too. But you still have lots of people posting about their for-sale tutorials in here...that's my point. I'll be happy to start confining my tutorial posts to those designated areas as soon as all of the other people who are posting about their "for sale" tutorials here in the main tutorials section do as well.

That's how I start to feel about all the people who "bump" their threads in the sales areas despite knowing and being told often not to do it.

So then I have to decide if I follow the rules and watch my posts sink to page two over and over again.

Or I bump my threads like many others do.

Shrug.

Damselfly

2010-12-30, 7:35pm

If people keep posting in the wrong places, waiting for other people to stop, no one will stop. And the right place will continue to be shunned because everyone's posting in the wrong places.

I don't think that the separate area for purchased tutorials is a ghetto. I go there, and I'm sure other people go there too. Those threads get a lot of views.

AKDesigns

2010-12-30, 7:52pm

Until this site is actually moderated (yes, I said it) nothing will change. People post in the wrong part of the forum just so their post isn't missed and they do it all over the place and yes, it's annoying. There are labeled rooms here for a reason. I know quite a few people that won't buy from someone if they think they are over pimping their website in the wrong areas...one vendor comes to mind and it's no one that's posted in this thread....just so you know...

The tutorial sections are a mess here. Maybe Cosmo should start a tutorial site because I betcha that would be nice and organized.

AKDesigns

2010-12-30, 7:53pm

That's how I start to feel about all the people who "bump" their threads in the sales areas despite knowing and being told often not to do it.

Again, moderation would fix that.

Laura B

2010-12-30, 8:01pm

Again, moderation would fix that.

Surely Corri doesn't expect to be able to moderate this whole site alone, right? I mean... there are helpers... right?

When I ran The Mellow Bead, I had at least eight moderators and the place was nowhere as big as this one.

squid

2010-12-30, 8:06pm

Surely Corri doesn't expect to be able to moderate this whole site alone, right? I mean... there are helpers... right?

When I ran The Mellow Bead, I had at least eight moderators and the place was nowhere as big as this one.

Nope, no mods.

Anne Ricketts

2010-12-30, 8:19pm

I thought we could delete our threads here! That's why I put a reminder, because I thought I could delete the thread! Sorry bout that!

DawnT

2010-12-31, 6:42pm

There used to be mods. Then they were gone...

The ability to delete the sale posts would be very helpful in cleaning things up.

SpitFire

2011-01-03, 7:33am

I am in favor of getting the "for sale" threads out of this section too. I am coming here less and less to look for free advice and help because it's too frustrating to find anything. Very sad that paid tutorials have sort of taken over. I certainly get writing and selling "lessons" for a technique that an artists develops. I just disagree with that over-running an area that was designed for artist who desire to share their knowledge and abilities with others. I remember the good ol' days ...

I hope this thread doesn't die because I'm hoping WHOEVER is in charge will take note and change things!!! Please.

chrisdd

2011-01-03, 8:18am

I also get irritated at the paid tutorials being in the free tutorial section. I don't even like the posts telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

Laura B

2011-01-03, 8:23am

I also get irritated at the paid tutorials being in the free tutorial section. I don't even like the posts telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

I don't get that. Isn't that what that one thread is specifically for? Why would that be spam?

chrisdd

2011-01-03, 9:41am

Sorry, let me reword that. I don't even like the posts in the free section telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

AKDesigns

2011-01-03, 10:40am

Sorry, let me reword that. I don't even like the posts in the free section telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

I agree.

dla

2011-01-03, 10:45am

Sorry, let me reword that. I don't even like the posts in the free section telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

I also agree with this.

swamper

2011-01-03, 11:16am

Sorry, let me reword that. I don't even like the posts in the free section telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

Me three.

Kalera

2011-01-03, 12:35pm

Polgarra

2011-01-03, 1:55pm

Perhaps part of the problem is that this section isn't labeled "free tutorials", but simply, "tutorials". Perhaps it would help if there was a "free tutorials" subsection. Then, if someone posted an ad for a pay tut in it, anyone could report the post and it would get pulled. As it stands I don't think it's clear that this section is for free tuts only.

That is a good point. It would help because there are also posts asking questions about tutorials in general, looking for tutorials etc.

Frit Diva

2011-01-03, 1:59pm

What a good idea! If there was a general "tutorials" section, then a sub "free" and a sub "paid" sections then there would be a place for conversations about tutorials, as well as announcements, etc. Excellent solution!

Jo

Listenup

2011-01-03, 4:52pm

Many times someone's question about how to do something turns into a free tutorial so then much info may be lost if the question was asked in one section, then the tutorial that may result could end up in the general section.

Frit Diva

2011-01-03, 5:15pm

That's a very good point, too, Kay!

Jo

chrisdd

2011-01-03, 7:36pm

I don't know...if you have a paid tutorial section it would imply that the other section is free.

shawnette

2011-01-03, 8:18pm

I don't know...if you have a paid tutorial section it would imply that the other section is free.

Yup. Besides, the "free" section was here long before the whole "paid" tutorial thing.

Laura B

2011-01-03, 8:24pm

Sorry, let me reword that. I don't even like the posts in the free section telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

Oh gotcha. Thanks for 'splainin'. :-)

Laura B

2011-01-03, 8:26pm

Perhaps part of the problem is that this section isn't labeled "free tutorials", but simply, "tutorials". Perhaps it would help if there was a "free tutorials" subsection. Then, if someone posted an ad for a pay tut in it, anyone could report the post and it would get pulled. As it stands I don't think it's clear that this section is for free tuts only.

Excellent point. If I saw a thread entitled "Tutorials" and wasn't from these parts ;-) I'd most likely assume the thread was for anything tutorial-related.

Laura B

2011-01-03, 8:28pm

I don't know...if you have a paid tutorial section it would imply that the other section is free.

I land on a lot of threads from the NEW POSTS section. So in theory, a number of people could see the "Tutorials" thread and not know there is one entitled "Tutorials For Sale"... so they wouldn't have that frame of reference as described above.

Damselfly

2011-01-03, 8:34pm

I don't know...if you have a paid tutorial section it would imply that the other section is free.

Exactly. At the very least, it implies that anything regarding paid tutorials should go in the "Tutorials for Purchase", whether it's announcements, previews, updates, sales, etc.

I don't think it's confusing at all. I think that many people choose to post in the main thread because they think it'll get more views, even though they know it's not the right place. [-X

And given how many views many threads get within the "Tutorials for Purchase" area, I think it's completely unnecessary for people to post in the wrong place on purpose. It makes it difficult to search through each area effectively.

I highly respect all the people who adhere to the rules, and to those that knowingly post in the wrong place trying to pimp their stuff, well, it's very irritating.

valjean

2011-01-03, 8:35pm

I think there have been a lot of really good points being made here, let's just hope the 'Powers that Be' are listening...Hi Corrie... LOL

.......Val

Damselfly

2011-01-03, 8:37pm

I land on a lot of threads from the NEW POSTS section. So in theory, a number of people could see the "Tutorials" thread and not know there is one entitled "Tutorials For Sale"... so they wouldn't have that frame of reference as described above.

Wow, I didn't even realize that "New Posts" button exists! I'll have to try it out. Thanks for mentioning it.

However, in order to start a new thread, you have to start from a specific section, don't you? So people would see the "Tutorials for Purchase" once they went into the Tutorial section.

Laura B

2011-01-03, 8:41pm

Wow, I didn't even realize that "New Posts" button exists! I'll have to try it out. Thanks for mentioning it.

However, in order to start a new thread, you have to start from a specific section, don't you? So people would see the "Tutorials for Purchase" once they went into the Tutorial section.

If they're paying attention. :razz:

Damselfly

2011-01-03, 8:45pm

If they're paying attention. :razz:

LMAO! Good point :) Well, considering the "New Thread" button is directly below the link to "Tutorials for Purchase", they'd have to be blind, or pretending to be blind, to miss it. :P

Listenup

2011-01-03, 9:22pm

LMAO! Good point :) Well, considering the "New Thread" button is directly below the link to "Tutorials for Purchase", they'd have to be blind, or pretending to be blind, to miss it. :P

Yep.

225708

Laura B

2011-01-03, 10:42pm

LMAO! Good point :) Well, considering the "New Thread" button is directly below the link to "Tutorials for Purchase", they'd have to be blind, or pretending to be blind, to miss it. :P

Heh... I can only speak for myself but I could TOTALLY seeing me having complete tunnel vision as a woman on a mission (to post a new thread of something I feel is too exciting to wait).

But yeah, I get the point... there really is no legitimate reason to be posting "for sale" tutorials in threads other than the "Tutorials For Purchase" thread.

sislonski

2011-01-04, 12:48am

Laura B

2011-01-04, 8:17am

... Maybe instead of having one subtitle for Tutorials for Sale then there should be another subtitle for Tutorials for Free and the regular "tutorial" section can be left open for "discussing" tutorials. That way you know where to look for what you're looking for and you can ignore discussions that you might find as being "spam or pimping".:shock:

I think that's the clearest solution. Then no one has to worry about what is implied.

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 10:40am

I see what you're saying Shari, but I think Kay had a good point.

Many times someone's question about how to do something turns into a free tutorial so then much info may be lost if the question was asked in one section, then the tutorial that may result could end up in the general section.

So separating out the "free" tutorials won't really solve the issue, because it will still be too difficult to search effectively.

And to be honest, I think most of the time that vendors post in the main section, they know that it's not the right section, they're just trying to get more views. I don't think that most of them are confused in any way.

I think of it this way: In the grocery store, there's a dairy section. In the dairy section, there's a milk section. When you go there, you expect all the milk to be in the milk section, not mixed in with the cheese and the butter. And the rest of the dairy section does not need to be labeled "Everything except for milk".

I also like Laura B's suggestion that Corri could reword the description to make it clearer that all threads regarding paid tutorials should go in the "Tutorials for Purchase" section. And if it would make the vendors of paid tutorials feel better about their dedicated section, perhaps we should move it out of the current "Tutorial" folder and put it underneath in the Library section of the main page. Personally, I don't think it's necessary because I still go into that Paid section regularly (as I'm sure MANY people do), even with it being a sub-forum. But whatever makes it more workable.

Let's face it, someone who's selling a tutorial has many places to promote already.
Tutorials for Purchase
Gallery (for examples of what people do with the tutorial)
Auctions, self promotion, and related things
Sale Rack

That's four. Can't the people who want to discuss things for free have one section to do that without spam posts infiltrating it?? (Sorry, but if you have three or four legitimate sections to discuss Paid tutorials, then putting something in a fifth section, even one that's a gray area, constitutes spam in my book.)

Laura B

2011-01-04, 10:47am

... And to be honest, I think most of the time that vendors post in the main section, they know that it's not the right section, they're just trying to get more views. I don't think that most of them are confused in any way...

I think you're right. And for the few that DO get confused, admin can easily move a thread from one section to another.... keeping things in their appropriate section.

bluffroadglass

2011-01-04, 2:13pm

My thought is with this section being titled "Tutorials" it leaves it open to any discussion about tutorials. So if someone asks if you're interested in a new tutorial or letting you know that they are in the process of writing a new tutorial or discusses a tutorial that another lampworker has written, I guess that's a matter of opinion on whether it is an intent to promote or spam or pimp or just discuss.

But since the section isn't specific as to what one can discuss then I guess it leaves it somewhat open.

Maybe instead of having one subtitle for Tutorials for Sale then there should be another subtitle for Tutorials for Free and the regular "tutorial" section can be left open for "discussing" tutorials. That way you know where to look for what you're looking for and you can ignore discussions that you might find as being "spam or pimping".:shock:

I think this is the fairest solution for everyone. The sense I get is that the majority in this forum just want the information on new tutorials and don't really care whether they are free or paid. It's a much smaller group of people who are bothered enough by having the paid tutorials share space with the free ones that they keep complaining about it. In light of that it just seems like the fairest compromise would be to separate the free tutorials away from the main forum. That way, the group who don't want to read anything unless it's free can go straight to the free section, and those who don't care, and just want the info on all available tutorials whether they're paid or free, can stay in the main section.

AKDesigns

2011-01-04, 3:12pm

Maybe instead of having one subtitle for Tutorials for Sale then there should be another subtitle for Tutorials for Free and the regular "tutorial" section can be left open for "discussing" tutorials. That way you know where to look for what you're looking for and you can ignore discussions that you might find as being "spam or pimping".:shock:

Just to clarify (I don't think everyone understood what you said) you're saying:

1. Tutorials for Sale: all threads regarding tutorials for purchase go here.
2. Tutorial for Free: all threads regarding tutorials for free go here.
3. Main Tutorial Section: general discussion goes here but no pimping or spamming about your finished tutorials whether they be free or for purchase or if they are on sale.

That would work.

Kalera

2011-01-04, 3:22pm

Just to clarify (I don't think everyone understood what you said) you're saying:

1. Tutorials for Sale: all threads regarding tutorials for purchase go here.
2. Tutorial for Free: all threads regarding tutorials for free go here.
3. Main Tutorial Section: general discussion goes here but no pimping or spamming about your finished tutorials whether they be free or for purchase or if they are on sale.

That would work.

I agree; that would be a good solution.

Laura B

2011-01-04, 3:23pm

Donna T.

2011-01-04, 3:37pm

I don't like option 3. If a discussion gets going and someone knows a place free or purchased to direct you to for the info you can't tell them about it.

I posted my first tutorial on LE about 6 weeks ago on Snowmen. I put FREE in the title to draw attention to those people that wanted to read a free tutorial. I knew if I didn't put FREE in plain view it would be overlooked by many thinking I was selling a tutaorial. If we had option 3 and the discussion was snowmen no one could make reference to my free tutorial. Or am I misunderstanding?

I too have noticed less sharing of ideas and more promotion on purchased tutorials and wonder if this is where some of the frustration threads have come from on purchased tutorials lately. You know the ones like "where's all the free ideas? No one's sharing tips etc." threads. Now there may be more sharing threads that what I'm seeing, I don't know as I rarely go past page 2 and on page one 75% are promoting purchasable tutorials.

For those who make purchasable tutorials please in no way take everyone's comments to mean we don't want to buy tutorials cause I think the market has proven that we do. I think I'm up to 25 or 30 now and I've had several people to make comments this last year that my beads have definitely turned a corner. But I would like to come into the tutorials section and see more sharing tips like I used to when I first joined LE several years ago.

Kalera

2011-01-04, 3:40pm

I imagine it would be OK to direct people to a tutorial, just not to start a thread to promote your own.

Donna T.

2011-01-04, 3:58pm

I just went back to main tutorials page is this is what I found

13 threads offering free info, bead or otherwise
3 threads asking for info on technique
1 showing results of purchased tutorial
4 talking about tutorial in general for what ever reason
4 promoting purchasable tutorial

So according to my own research I've proven my above statement as false as the majority (at least at this time of writing) are overwhelmingly free info.

AKDesigns

2011-01-04, 4:41pm

Donna, the good thing about the "pimping my two day sale" threads is that they die quickly because they usually don't get any responses. That doesn't mean that they aren't annoying when they're put in the wrong spot...

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 5:05pm

I imagine it would be OK to direct people to a tutorial, just not to start a thread to promote your own.

Isn't that the way it's supposed to be now??

I have no problem with someone asking a question on how to do things and being directed to a purchasable tutorial if it covers their question, as long as it doesn't stifle legitimate discussion. I thought what we were discussing was the proliferation of promotional threads in the main section.

I love the "for sale" tutorials; I've purchased many. I like the Tutorials for Purchase area and I go there to choose which ones I want to save up for. I don't understand why it's necessary for the same basic thread as four others previously posted, to show up in an area it doesn't belong.

and I think I read Shari's idea differently than you did, Amy.

Just to clarify... you're saying:

1. Tutorials for Sale: all threads regarding tutorials for purchase go here.
2. Tutorial for Free: all threads regarding tutorials for free go here.
3. Main Tutorial Section: general discussion goes here but no pimping or spamming about your finished tutorials whether they be free or for purchase or if they are on sale.

See, to me, Shari's idea seemed to read:

1. Tutorials for Sale: threads regarding tutorials for purchase go here.
2. Tutorial for Free: threads regarding tutorials for free go here.
3. Main Tutorial Section: general discussion goes here, as well as announcements about paid tutorials and current sales, and questions from possible tutorial vendors about making a tutorial on stuff, etc.

And I think if we do that, a lot of good information will get lost. Not every "free tutorial" is a written step-by-step document. There are lots of free gems within threads that ask questions. So if we separate out the "free" stuff, then someone has to go back and recopy stuff to the new "free tutorial" section to save it, otherwise it'll get lost in the deluge.

I remember a really long discussion about "newbies" who didn't bother searching for the answers to the questions, and how important searching is before you ask for answers, otherwise you're showing a sense of entitlement, etc. Shouldn't we be trying to figure out the best way to make sure that valuable information isn't lost and requested ad nausium??

Getting back to Kalera's statement:

I imagine it would be OK to direct people to a tutorial, just not to start a thread to promote your own.

Why can't we just do that with the main tutorial section right now?? That's a lot of what people have been asking for.

AKDesigns

2011-01-04, 5:12pm

and I think I read Shari's idea differently than you did, Amy.

See, to me, Shari's idea seemed to read:

1. Tutorials for Sale: threads regarding tutorials for purchase go here.
2. Tutorial for Free: threads regarding tutorials for free go here.
3. Main Tutorial Section: general discussion goes here, as well as announcements about paid tutorials and current sales, and questions from possible tutorial vendors about making a tutorial on stuff, etc.

Well that won't fix a darn thing, really. Personally I think that all the threads about tutorial sales and discounts don't even belong in the tutorials for purchase section but I guess Corri doesn't agree. I think they should be kept in the self promotion section. You already announced your tutorial months ago, any further sale or discount threads are spam to me. Spam.

bluffroadglass

2011-01-04, 5:15pm

(raising my hand...) But isn't having 3 separate forums just going to complicate the issue? To solve this problem we have to address what's actually causing it.

The reason there's a problem with keeping posts where they should be is that the paid tutorials forum, because it's a subforum of the main tutorials forum, is perceived as receiving less attention. Tutorial authors feel if they don't post about their paid tutorials in the main forum too, they will be overlooked.

The easiest way to resolve this problem would be to get rid of the paid tutorials subforum, replace it with a free tutorials subforum, and let both paid and free tutorials be discussed in the main forum. That way, all tutorial authors (both paid and free) would be free to post in the main forum, anyone who wanted to see info about all tutorials (both paid and free) could find it in the main forum, and the free tutorials subforum would be limited to discussion of free tutorials only, for those who don't want to see any posts about paid tutorials. Seems to me that that way, everybody would be happy. Paid tutorial authors wouldn't feel they were being segregated from the "real" forum where all the action is, and those who are only interested in free tutorials would have a subforum dedicated to free tuts, where paid tut authors aren't going to feel a need to crosspost because they can already post in the main forum.

To sum up, I'm suggesting:

Tutorials - Discussion of any tutorials, paid or free
Free Tutorials (Subforum) - Discussion of free tutorials only

Mind you, I suspect that if Corri really wanted to make any changes, she probably would have already.

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 5:22pm

I'm still thinking about the rest of your post, but I wanted to respond to this.

The reason there's a problem with keeping posts where they should be is that the paid tutorials forum, because it's a subforum of the main tutorials forum, is perceived as receiving less attention. Tutorial authors feel if they don't post about their paid tutorials in the main forum too, they will be overlooked.

I think that "the paid tutorials forum... receiving less attention" is a false assumption that many vendors make, and I would disagree that the Tutorials For Purchase section is overlooked by everyone. I realize that's why vendors do it, but I disagree that isn't as good of a section. I think it's the perfect section, because I think us customers know that that particular section is where all the polished gems are, the ones that people spent hours and hours perfecting their tutorial.

That's where I go when I want the special techniques and book quality tuts. There's no need to market to me everywhere. and I know I'm not alone in that.

AKDesigns

2011-01-04, 5:22pm

bluffroadglass

2011-01-04, 5:28pm

I'm still thinking about the rest of your post, but I wanted to respond to this.

I think that "the paid tutorials forum... receiving less attention" is a false assumption, and I would disagree that the Tutorials For Purchase section is overlooked by everyone. I realize that's why vendors do it, but I disagree that isn't as good of a section.

I didn't say it received less attention or that it isn't as good of a section. I said it was perceived to receive less attention. It's the perception, whether or not it's true, that is causing this problem.

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 5:30pm

I'm not sure why tutorial writers would think that their thread would get overlooked in the paid section. I never thought that. I never pimped mine in the general section either. Never. It doesn't belong there.

Just my opinion.

And your tutorial is one of the one's I've purchased. I saved up for that from the first moment I saw it.

And it didn't need to be in the main section.

AKDesigns

2011-01-04, 5:33pm

AKDesigns

2011-01-04, 5:33pm

And your tutorial is one of the one's I've purchased. I saved up for that from the first moment I saw it.

And it didn't need to be in the main section.

:love::flirt:

Kalera

2011-01-04, 5:33pm

The way I use the forum, if I wanted to buy tutorials I'd go straight to the "Tutorials for Purchase" section and browse through them.

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 5:38pm

I didn't say it received less attention or that it isn't as good of a section. I said it was perceived to receive less attention. It's the perception, whether or not it's true, that is causing this problem.

I caught that sentence right before you posted, and I changed it to read, "I think that "the paid tutorials forum... receiving less attention" is a false assumption that many vendors make". Because you're right, it's all about perception.

But if it's a false assumption, then let's work on that assumption.

I can easily see vendors saying "Well, I posted in the wrong section, and I got ten more sales. So that must be what caused it." That's easily false too, because I know I have to save up money to buy, and I might buy after that thread went up, but it was in spite of that, not because of it.

Whatever the assumption, shouldn't we be trying to uphold the current set of very lenient rules in place? I would hope it's not going to break any person's business to refrain from posting in the main section.

pendragonfyre

2011-01-04, 5:39pm

Ditto... I agree.. I find it a bit misleading to see something in the main listing to only click on it to learn it is an advertisement for a "tutorial for sale".
If I am looking for a new tut to purchase, I go direct to the "Tutorials for Purchase" section...

Darlene

The way I use the forum, if I wanted to buy tutorials I'd go straight to the "Tutorials for Purchase" section and browse through them.

Laura B

2011-01-04, 5:42pm

... Whatever the assumption, shouldn't we be trying to uphold the current set of very lenient rules in place? ...

How?

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 5:46pm

How?

LMAO! that's the million dollar question \\:D/

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 5:50pm

Since we're talking about where we go when we do want to buy, something else just popped into my head.

I think Amy's banner is the perfect advertisement for her tutorial, and I love to see it every time she posts. It makes me feel happy to see those dots, because I feel inspired to try to use that technique.

Kim, I love your banner too, and it reminds me in a much nicer way that I want to buy that tutorial. In fact, I'd love to see more banners, side by side, for the other tutorials. A whole bar of them across the bottom of your posts would be gorgeous *G*

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 5:55pm

Another random thought:

Maybe the "Tutorials for Purchase" section should allow people to delete their own threads. That way, you can have Sale posts in there that can be deleted afterwards, and still have a good list of what's still available.

That might be a change Corri is willing to make. *crosses fingers*

Laura B

2011-01-04, 6:05pm

Are thread-starting posts not deletable by the OP?

Damselfly

2011-01-04, 6:07pm

I think they're only deletable in the Garage Sale.

(*ponders* is that the only place?)

AKDesigns

2011-01-04, 6:30pm

Are thread-starting posts not deletable by the OP?

Nope. It would help to get rid of all of those "One day sales" and "Groundhog day sale" and "Pre-order sale" if they could be deleted. Counting the expired sale threads on the first two pages of the Tutorials for Purchase section...18.

bluffroadglass

2011-01-04, 9:07pm

Well, hope you guys get it all figured out. For me this is way too much time spent debating something I would definitely categorize as "the small stuff," but I'll respect whatever the general consensus is. Cheers to you all.

chrisdd

2011-01-05, 8:01am

For me this is way too much time spent debating something I would definitely categorize as "the small stuff,"....

True, this really is small stuff compared to most things in life. But I'd think not irritating potential customers would be big stuff to a business owner.

shawnette

2011-01-05, 8:15am

The process for deleting your own post is to report it (click on the little exclamation point icon in the top right corner) and request that it be deleted. Corri is usually pretty quick about it.

bluffroadglass

2011-01-05, 9:00am

True, this really is small stuff compared to most things in life. But I'd think not irritating potential customers would be big stuff to a business owner.

Of course I don't want to irritate potential customers, Chris. All I meant was that where the paid tutorial section ends up and where the free section ends up is not enough of a big deal to me to continue arguing about it. I did say in my last post that I would respect whatever the general consensus was.

Kalera

2011-01-05, 9:50am

It doesn't seem like it's that big of a problem; actually, having expired sale promotion posts in the tutorials for sale section seems like a bigger hindrance to me, in terms of making it more cluttery and harder to find the actual tuts. It seems like it would be really effective if a tut seller PMd Corri (otherwise she probably won't even see this thread) and ask that threads be made deletable in the tuts for sale section just as they are in the garage sale section. It makes perfect sense for the same reasons.

Laura B

2011-01-05, 11:01am

The process for deleting your own post is to report it (click on the little exclamation point icon in the top right corner) and request that it be deleted. Corri is usually pretty quick about it.

Good to know.

Listenup

2011-01-05, 9:29pm

Let me preface this by saying I LOVE my tutorials. I have most of them for sale here on LE in my Paid Tutorial folder on my laptop. :shock:

None of them has been purchased by clicking on a link in the main tutorial section. If you're concerned that you're not getting enough exposure for your tutorial for purchase (given the multiple areas there are to let the rest of us know), you can always buy a banner add. Doesn't every other vendor have to pay to have ads here?

And as for the percentage of free tutorials in the regular section, I went to the back pages the other day and bumped up a few because they were good ones and were worth revisiting. The ones that got bumped to the second page because of this were 3 for or about paid tutorials, and one that was asking for info. I just noticed that it hadn't really been answered and got pushed back.

Peace.

Shawn T

2011-01-07, 10:27am

(raising my hand...)

Mind you, I suspect that if Corri really wanted to make any changes, she probably would have already.

This pretty much sums up this thread for me.

Remember Corri is the one and only Admin to the whole site, no moderators, no help.

I just did a quick check in this area and came up with about 900 threads.That isn't even counting the paid tutorial threads that average another 350 threads. So dividing that up into 3 sub categories, could take days.

Many of these threads you could not tell just by reading the title what category they would belong in. This is speaking from someone who has moved threads before.
Would it be worth your time and effort?

Damselfly, You can delete your own threads in the Garage, Auctions and Self Promotions, and Classes, Retreats and Get Togethers etc. Also if you are a LE vendor, you can delete your own threads in the Sale Rack, as only LE vendors are allowed to post in that area.

AKDesigns

2011-01-07, 11:51am

I just did a quick check in this area and came up with about 900 threads.That isn't even counting the paid tutorial threads that average another 350 threads. So dividing that up into 3 sub categories, could take days.

Many of these threads you could not tell just by reading the title what category they would belong in. This is speaking from someone who has moved threads before.
Would it be worth your time and effort?

If Corri gave me moderator status for one day I'd be more than happy to do it. But I know this conversation is making a few people weary and it's not really accomplishing anything anyway.

Damselfly

2011-01-07, 12:42pm

Thanks for clarifying that, Shawn. I knew there was more, I just couldn't think of them.

I don't think that most people feel that changing things around would improve this section. It sounds to me like most people like this area the way it is, but would like vendors to post in the area that was created especially for them. Why create more work than we need to? Why can't the current system be used as it was designed?

And I would bet anything that Corri hasn't done anything like move or delete threads because no one reports them. I know I don't want to report them; I'm not trying to be vindictive.

Has anyone asked Corri if it was possible to make the Paid Tutorial section deletable by thread owners? I agree with Kalara that it should prob be a vendor. Amy, (I'll shamelessly ask :) ) will you leave Corri a message?

Damselfly

2011-01-07, 12:45pm

By the way, since this thread was brought back up, I think it's a bummer that Lisa AF's thread asking about Kim's tutorial wasn't started in the Paid Tutorial section. I think it would have gotten just as many views and just as many responses, and it would have increased the view rate of all the threads in that section.

AKDesigns

2011-01-07, 12:47pm

I've sent Corri a message weeks ago about how cluttered the tutorial section was and never heard back from her. I doubt contacting her again would give me any different results.

glassbead

2011-01-11, 4:32am

I certainly agree about separating things. Thats said, I just went to post new price info about my paid tut, and had to look pretty hard to find the right section. I knew it was there, but almost posted here by accident. I'm just not on le enough to remember that it was kind of a sub-category.

BBB

2011-01-12, 9:17pm

How about 1 thread per tutorial. You write it, you start the thread, then you can promote your sales, discounts, ect in that thread. Then everyone can see what the changes have been.
Since we can edit out own posts, the OP can go in and update the original post for the special or sales and people would not have to go looking for the info. Fewer thread, less chance of getting buried.

janetcameron

2011-01-20, 3:59am

I like the solution above - keep this thread, but above have a tutorials for sale thread and a free tutorials thread

Kalera

2011-01-20, 9:34am

It's been separated and it looks AWESOME in there... the division really showcases what a fantastic wealth of great FREE information the members of this forum offer. :love: Thanks Amy!

AKDesigns

2011-01-20, 10:08am

I'm still working on it. I think I have 19 more pages in the main section to sort out but I may be done today. :)

Damselfly

2011-01-20, 10:13am

You've done great work *hugs*

What did Corri say about sales and promotions for paid tutorials in the main section?

AKDesigns

2011-01-20, 10:15am

You've done great work *hugs*

What did Corri say about sales and promotions for paid tutorials in the main section?

Thanks. Corri didn't address that issue. She just gave me free rein to house clean.

killerbeedz1

2011-01-20, 10:32am

You're doing a great job Amy. I like!

Patsy

AKDesigns

2011-01-20, 10:34am

I can't believe the huge wealth of free tutorials here that have gotten lost in all the chatter and questions. It's so nice to get them all separated. People should really take the time to go through them once I'm done.

Polgarra

2011-01-20, 10:40am

Aye Aye captain. I think I might play Tut Roulette and just randomly pick a tutorial to try each week. Thank you for all your work

Anne Ricketts

2011-01-20, 10:56am

Aye Aye captain. I think I might play Tut Roulette and just randomly pick a tutorial to try each week. Thank you for all your work

Where's the "like" button! :lol: I think that is a great idea, one I might try to get out of my funk!!

Polgarra

2011-01-20, 11:06am

Where's the "like" button! :lol: I think that is a great idea, one I might try to get out of my funk!!

If other people are interested we could play a version of this in the patio? Take advantage of the new free tutorial section. Roll a dice, try the tutorial then post our results (Do you post what you have made in the free tutorial thread or is that a no-no?)

Frit Diva

2011-01-20, 11:08am

It really does look great ~ Amy, thanks for doing all the sorting! I'm excited, now everybody can find what they are looking for so much easier, and we have a place to discuss, ask questions, etc without littering up the tutorial libraries! Yeah!!!!!

Jo

Frit Diva

2011-01-20, 11:09am

Pol, you could do a random number generator to pick a free tut, then put up a weekly or monthly challenge with a link to the tut. I love that idea!

Jo

Anne Ricketts

2011-01-20, 11:18am

Roll a dice, try the tutorial then post our results (Do you post what you have made in the free tutorial thread or is that a no-no?)

I can only say for myself but I love to see what people do with my tutorials! I don't think it would be a no-no!

AKDesigns

2011-01-20, 1:53pm

Done! As of this exact moment, the only thing that is in the Tutorial for Purchase section are completed tutorial ready for purchase. The only thing in the Free Tutorial section are completed free tutorials. Basically if it didn't fall into one of the above categories it went to the main tutorial section. All out dated sale threads were deleted.

Listenup

2011-01-20, 1:56pm

You Rock Amy!!!!!

Anne Ricketts

2011-01-20, 2:49pm

Thank you Amy! You da woman!

squid

2011-01-20, 2:57pm

Wow, good work!

moondanse

2011-01-20, 3:01pm

Excellent job! You make a fine housekeeper--who'da thunk?

AKDesigns

2011-01-20, 3:27pm

Excellent job! You make a fine housekeeper--who'da thunk?

:lol: I'm betting Corri wishes I could come to her house and clean too.

chrisdd

2011-01-20, 4:23pm

Thanks, Amy!!!

Sherry

2011-01-20, 6:59pm

Thanks, Amy; what a massive job you've done!

tela

2011-01-20, 7:21pm

It looks great Amy! There is so much great stuff in the free section, and it was a walk down memory lane taboot!
Thanks.
joanne

bluffroadglass

2011-01-21, 11:10am

Thank you for reorganizing everything, Amy. It looks great. And thank you Corri for adding the new subforum!

Leslie Dana

2011-01-25, 1:23am

Two thumbs up Amy,thanks!

Seasoned Soul

2011-01-25, 7:01am

Awesome Amy....I'm beyond thankful.... I was sooo lost.

SpitFire

2011-01-25, 8:12am

Perfecto! =D>=D>=D> Thank you!

AKDesigns

2011-01-25, 11:06am

You're very welcome everyone. It felt good to organize it all. :)

Moth

2011-02-03, 5:51am

OMG...it looks absolutely fantastic!!!

I'm a tutorial seller and honestly--I even quit going into those forum rooms myself. It was just a hot mess in there.

I didn't post anything about retail tutorials in the regular tutorials section but I really really wish we could have been able to delete old sale threads in the tutorials for purchase area. That would have helped to be able to clear those out, but what Amy has done is even better.

Thanks for the subforums, Corri and thanks to Amy for all the hard work.

~~Mary