Using a button mandrel

[Denielle]

Does anyone have advice for using a two-hole button mandrel? I found very little info by doing a search. I'm sure some of you very talented folks have advice for a newbie...Today I finally removed my first button from the mandrel and didn't even have to use a hammer...I'm glad it came off in one piece but it looks all blobby. Help, please!![-o<

[saraconklin]

I am interested in buttons also, bought a marver with several button molds in it and am afraid to try it out. there were no instructions but figure it is like a mini pendant. got some copper wire to bury in the back in a loop shape....................... maybe i will make some opal beads in the mean time

[Denielle]

So is the marver made to make shank-type buttons? What type of wire do you plan to use with it?

[saraconklin]

opal bead still cooking, not so easy.

i plan to make shank buttons by adding a twisted copper wire loop to the back with the pointy ends buried in the glass, right? pick up the button with mashers?? once i knock it out of the marver mold?? and put in the kiln. the marver has indentions in the surface in various sizes and circular shapes. just talking it though makes me think i need to start looking for instructional videos. know of any good ones?

[Frit Diva]

I have a button mandrel tutorial for sale that shows how to make your own mandrels (2, 3, or 4 hole) and gives instructions on making buttons as well. Some folks have said they find my system easier than the manufactured ones due to problems removing buttons after they are made.... although just soaking the buttons should break them free of the mandrel....

Sara, I'm not familiar with the type of button mold you have, maybe you could post pictures and someone who has used that type will chime in...?

Jo

p.s. You can find the button mandrel tutorial on my website, just click the link below....

[JKC]

Hi, there is also tut by lush lampwork for her button tool, which also cover two hole mandrels. Janet

[essiemessy]

I was lucky to find myself some two-pronged cocktail forks at an op shop. I've had a few goes at making buttons on them, with moderate success. I've used them to practice, and work out the best ways of applying glass and shaping. It's quite a freaky thing to find yourself trying to make something round, out of what essentially wants to go oval, or rectangular :lol:

[fawnheights]

Hi, I think the button mold she's referring to is the Heather Trimlett mold - I took her class, and it's for making shank style buttons - either with metal shanks or glass shanks (wind a small bead, keep it hot and then fuse the bead to the button. In a nutshell, you melt a blob on the end of your rod, push it into the mold. Then you punty up to the top, melt off the rod, smooth the back and put in the shank.

For the 2-pronged mandrel, melt a ball on your rod and pull about 2 inches of a thick stringer. Starting between the prongs, wind the stringer around each prong, and then start to wind your rod.

I'm no expert and I'm still trying to perfect my own methods, but happy to share what I've learned.

As for removing the 2 hole button - for me the key is to make it as close to the end of your mandrel as possible. Then gently tug one side then the other, it'll give and come off. I always do this under water, but I don't soak my mandrels. I also usually use a really thick coating of release.

[Denielle]

For the 2-pronged mandrel, melt a ball on your rod and pull about 2 inches of a thick stringer. Starting between the prongs, wind the stringer around each prong, and then start to wind your rod.

for me the key is to make it as close to the end of your mandrel as possible.

I think these two tips will help me quite a bit. Thanks for the advice!

[saraconklin]

photos of mandrel i bought, 2 sided

photo troubles, i made the photo 640x640 pixels and this is what the "you blew it" message says:

The file you tried to upload is 340056 bytes (approx 332 kilobytes) which exceeds the 81920 byte (80 kilobyte) limit.

my next attempt will be a photo at 500 pixels

[saraconklin]

i reduced the size of the photo even more, 500x 375 pixels and here is my new message

The file you tried to upload is 141783 bytes (approx 138 kilobytes) which exceeds the 81920 byte (80 kilobyte) limit.

am confused that the 640x640 directions aren't working and am sorry to be encumbering the button talk with pixels but i really want to show you the marver....................
will attempt a photo of 300x300 pixels, hope it can be seen

[saraconklin]

300 pixel x 230 pixel attempt

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240073

i think this will work, weird, huh?

[saraconklin]

yes,, i know this isn't a mandrel..............

[Denielle]

I'm glad you were able to figure out the picture problems. I was frustrated at first, too but now whenever I take a pic, I go right to the paint program and reduce all my pics by 50%. So far that is all I needed to do.

That marver looks very interesting. Have you tried using copper shanks yet, and do they burn thru easily?

[saraconklin]

have never tried the copper shank thing, haven't look around enough for instructions to even try a button yet

[Rareripes]

Sara..I have a similar marver except mine has 5 diff molds on each side.There were no instructions either and i have not figured out how to use it although some of the molds have been used to put frit on small beads . I do not remember where i bought it :( I'm sure it made sense at the time..lol

[Rareripes]

I think a heavy guage copper should make it thru the kiln cycle.Sara..lets both make a pact to give these darn things a try and post our results!I hate to waste a good tool and maybe this will end up to be the end all of end alls(doubt it tho.lol)

[saraconklin]

i began to wonder if firing a bare copper wire, have seen people encase copper wire for application to beads, would mess up my kiln. that bugger was expensive so i am cautious. i began to think that if i ended the button as a cabochon with a flat back i could super glue "plastic button backs (available on the www)" to the glass top and not worry about the copper wire. i tried putting the hot end of a rod into one of the button forms yesterday and twirled it a bit, i felt brave. yes, Diana, we can do this.

[SilverReflections]

I've put glass leaves with copper wire on them in the kiln with no problems. I can't think of any problems you'll have at bead annealing temps other than your wire will be soft (annealed) so I imagine you'll want to use a decent size gauge and tumble it afterwards.

Tina

[dcaaw]

236397
I use the button mandrel to make nests for my birds

[Denielle]

Aw, that is adorable!

I have been using the metal shanks from Fire Mountain. The only reason I wanted to use imbedded shanks was because a button collector I know prefers them over glued-on shanks so I will give the copper a try today.

[saraconklin]

Tina, i don't understand "tumble it afterward" tumble to me means a rock tumbler???

[fawnheights]

Heather Trimlet had a tool made that looks like a roach clip - it's basically an alligator clip at the end of a long wooden dowel - you use it to hold the shank. When you have the front of the button attached to a punty, you heat the back in the spot where you want to put the shank, push it in and twist about 1/4 twist to get it in/under the glass. Then you melt off the punty and fire polish the front of the button.

I know it's hard to read instructions over seeing them.

I also use my button mold to make cabochons and I use the deep welled one to help round out beads that just don't want to cooperate.

[Rareripes]

Thanks for all the good advice! I have a very heavy gauge copper.My son is an electrician and has given me 24 inch long or more wrapped wire that has 36 maybe 8 gauge lengths of pure copper inside.I like the roach clip idea also and will look into the FM shanks.I like the idea of cabochons also..really..thank you all!
Ok Sara..we can be churning out buttons by next week!lol..Hmm..a shared button business...I LIKE it..haha ;)

[ArtcoInc]

Here are a couple of other techniques ...

This first one is by Dawn Putman (TradesBears) who used to be active here on the forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHPngf82xdY

I have also seen where she put a piece of murinni in the center between the mandrels, creating a nice visual effect in the center of the button. (FWIW, I still have some of her Button Making Tools in stock)

The next one is from Bearfoot Arts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4uQL168aAs

HTH

Malcolm

[Rareripes]

Malcolm..thanks for all that info! I bet if Sara or I could get a murrini in the bottom of our button marver,that would be a cool look too.:)Will check out your company.I may be weird vut hardware stores are my favorite stores to shop in ;)

[SilverReflections]

yep, a rock tumbler with stainless steel mixed shot and some water with a very small amount of detergent will polish and work harden the copper for you without harming the glass. I usually use it to clean/harden silver components for jewelry... Same idea.

Tina

Tina, i don't understand "tumble it afterward" tumble to me means a rock tumbler???

[Howling Dog]

I use 16ga copper wire for my button shanks all the time...doesn't hurt your kiln at all. Unless you stick the wire into the heating elements. I use locking hemostats to hold the shank and then insert into the back of the button while it's hot. After tumbling, or any type of cleaning with water...I dry my buttons in my oven on low heat (200-250 degrees). It is very important to make sure there is no moisture near the shank.

Michelle

[Howling Dog]

Here's a picture:

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Michelle

[Rareripes]

Thanks for the pic,Michelle and the info.I do have that size copper as well.The thick stuff is really hard to shape...will probably save that for something??

[saraconklin]

do i HAVE TO tumble the copper wire?, a rock tumbler is yet another piece of equipment i don't have. I have begun using boro for a while. i anneal at about 1050, can i do boro buttons and put the copper wire in at this temp? thanks for all the button help

[Howling Dog]

I don't tumble mine. But when I get a tumbler, I'm gonna try it. I think it's less work that I have to do. Instead, I clean the fire scale off the copper with muriatic acid, rinse/neutralize with a baking soda & water solution, and then I use a brass bristle brush to bring back the shine.

I know nothing about boro, but I don't think 1050 will melt the copper...if that's what you're worried about. The melting point of copper is 1981 degrees F...try one, see what happens. Make a glass drop on the end of a copper wire and stick it in the kiln.

Michelle