View Full Interactive Version Of This Page : Striking: The haze and keeping it away.
Last night I finally was able to cook the haze off on my Double AP. Then I put it back into a more neutral flame for purples to show up. The results were pretty good but then my heart pendant turned into a glob. :neutral:
From my lesson learned, I should burn off the haze BEFORE I start my pendant. The question is, once the haze burns off, can it come back if I soaked it in a neutral flame? Is there a technique to keep the haze off when you're flame working Double AP?
My kiln has yet to arrive, so the only thing I have to work with is a flame so far (kiln will arrive in September). Once I get my kiln, can I kiln strike the haze off?
The haze can always come back. So you just keep burning it off until you're done. I would work DAP in an oxy flame and then if you want to put it in a neutral or reducing flame do that once you're done. That's generally your best technique with silver glass. Whenever I get a new color of glass I take a while just to play with it. Make a gather, flatten it so you have a lollipop, and then just play. See whether it strikes in the flame. See if you can get a silvery shine on the outside, or if you can get something that looks like an oil slick. How hot do you have to get it until it goes clear? Stuff like that.
You can not remove haze with the kiln.
The haze can always come back. So you just keep burning it off until you're done. I would work DAP in an oxy flame and then if you want to put it in a neutral or reducing flame do that once you're done. That's generally your best technique with silver glass. Whenever I get a new color of glass I take a while just to play with it. Make a gather, flatten it so you have a lollipop, and then just play. See whether it strikes in the flame. See if you can get a silvery shine on the outside, or if you can get something that looks like an oil slick. How hot do you have to get it until it goes clear? Stuff like that.
You can not remove haze with the kiln.
That makes total sense. I will keep that in mind while I'm playing with DAP again and keep the oxy going until I'm done. Since I've been so used to working with a neutral flame, I think I'll need to work fast or make my flame much smaller.
While there's a little learning curve, I would have to say that the results are well worth it :)
LarryC
2011-08-02, 10:23am
That makes total sense. I will keep that in mind while I'm playing with DAP again and keep the oxy going until I'm done. Since I've been so used to working with a neutral flame, I think I'll need to work fast or make my flame much smaller.
While there's a little learning curve, I would have to say that the results are well worth it :)
Generally Oxidizing flames are colder so that should not be an issue.
Generally Oxidizing flames are colder so that should not be an issue.
Maybe it's just me then... because I swear it goes from solid to glob a lot faster.
Ah... the joys of a learning curve. :(
LarryC
2011-08-02, 10:50am
Maybe it's just me then... because I swear it goes from solid to glob a lot faster.
Ah... the joys of a learning curve. :(
Me and you both. I am just starting to get a feel for flame chemistry. Try working farther out in the flame to keep it oxidizing. Seems to help for me some.
Me and you both. I am just starting to get a feel for flame chemistry. Try working farther out in the flame to keep it oxidizing. Seems to help for me some.
Great tip! I will try that.
The newbie in me seems to get closer and closer to the flame as my concentration intensifies. I need to take a chill pill and relax!
I'll post pictures when something decent comes out :)
I'm really new myself and noticed that on a premix the O2 is closer to the flame base right near the candles. I found this out with silver fume, the only place I can burn off the fume is at the base, but it does turn to jelly pretty quick. I am assuming here that the base of a flame on a premix is O2 rich and it is just the oposite for a surface mix. I just bought a cricket and I'm having problems with having none of the colors change at all.
hope this helps.
I'm really new myself and noticed that on a premix the O2 is closer to the flame base right near the candles. I found this out with silver fume, the only place I can burn off the fume is at the base, but it does turn to jelly pretty quick. I am assuming here that the base of a flame on a premix is O2 rich and it is just the oposite for a surface mix. I just bought a cricket and I'm having problems with having none of the colors change at all.
hope this helps.
Are you on tanked Oxy or concentrator?
Interesting. I'm running a pre-mix (top of a RedMax) with tanked oxy. I'll play around with the distance from the torch and see what happens.
Onekura
2011-08-02, 7:25pm
what works best for me is working it in the hottest part of the flame, where ever that might be depending on the torch. When it burns off the haze, thats when the process starts - from here I keep heating it even more and work it quite a long time - it almost goes transparent.
For striking - I do this when everything is finished. Let it cool a little and reheat until you see the color change (I hold it under a lamp to see it better). I could not see, that flame chemistry makes a huge difference for this, but I like to strike it in an oxy-rich flame.
It takes quite a bit of heat to strike it to the purples. I usually get the best colors where I melted in the punty marks - strange that . . .
(I am running a Barracuda on tanked oxy)
Interesting. I'm running a pre-mix (top of a RedMax) with tanked oxy. I'll play around with the distance from the torch and see what happens.
You need to figure out where the flame is neutral to oxidizing for your torch and valve settings. You are running a welding torch, right?
You need to figure out where the flame is neutral to oxidizing for your torch and valve settings. You are running a welding torch, right?
Nope I ended up getting a RedMax with a premix top (I got a great deal on it)!
Here's the "I don't know what I'm doing" picture from before I did research on DAP (go easy on me):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/ventchimney/lwe/11080101.jpg
I played around a little bit last night and basically turned up the oxy a bit and got this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/ventchimney/lwe/11080203.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/ventchimney/lwe/11080202.jpg
Still got the haze going on, but it's WAY better than before thanks to your advice :) However, I didn't keep track of where I was in the flame. I think I was a good 2"-3" away from the torch.
While I have an idea of what my neutral flame is after lessons from DH, I have some GA Amazon Night on the way to test all the flames. In fact, I actually got the The Alchemist's Guide kit so I'll be experimenting soon.
Nice. A little bit of reduction mixed in sometimes helps to give more color variation. J. Kervin's book on beads has a great section on flame chemistry. If you get a chance give it a read.
lizard13i24
2011-08-03, 10:28am
ELB-
Learning to burn the haze off can take a while for me on a pre mix I finish my work hot and clear as posible after that let I let my work cool untill the glow goes away. I turn down my center flame very small and use it like a paint brush heating a small area at a time this way you can see the haze burn off it looks like the fog clearing off a car window doing a small spot at a time also helps to not distort your finished work, real important on large complex pieces. Good luck and keep trying to colors are worth the effort.
I'm on a 5lpm concentrator, I had two but one is down right now. I made a turtle and got some beautiful purples with persimmon strike I think but the head stayed clear and i couldn't get it to strike. Since I started, my colors are not grey anymore, I'm not sure if I'm learning anything or the glass gods are just playing nice with me. LOL ELB your progression looks like mine it's nice to see things go in the direction you intend it to go. :-)
Lizard the tiny flame totally helped! I made another one tonight and it's much better!
Thanks Nate! It's a little weird to be so aggressive with the glass (lol) but whatever it takes to get the haze off. I just have to get used to working with soupy glass. So far no dropped blobs on the bench (yet).
lizard13i24
2011-08-04, 4:25am
ELB- I am fairly new to glass also one thing that helped me alot is the northstar newsletters. If you havent seen these go to northstar glass website and click on newsletters alot of reading but good information on most of northstars colors. I go back and reread these all the time.
Lizard: that was VERY helpful! I think this will help with a lot of wasted glass from experiments ;)
deb tarry
2011-08-04, 7:32am
ELB-
Learning to burn the haze off can take a while for me on a pre mix I finish my work hot and clear as posible after that let I let my work cool untill the glow goes away. I turn down my center flame very small and use it like a paint brush heating a small area at a time this way you can see the haze burn off it looks like the fog clearing off a car window doing a small spot at a time also helps to not distort your finished work, real important on large complex pieces. Good luck and keep trying to colors are worth the effort.Why didn't I think of that thanks for sharing.
My 2 cents:
Burn off haze. Work hot to keep haze off. Kiln strike. (get a kiln!) Ok,ok... you can flame strike for now if you must.
Some haze/streaks often develops while working no matter what you try. Go with it - art is often a process of realizing what you intended is not what you end up with...but maybe next time (heh).
Try encasing a gather of white with an A/P color (or two!). Melt smooth then add some clear dots on top of your A/P. Melt in. Shape. Strike. Enjoy.
Buy Brent Graber's first DVD for some great tips on working A/P colors. In fact buy both of his DVD's (I haven't bought the second one yet but I've heard great things about it) Here's a picture of a bunch of pieces. The arrowheads in particular were made with a process very similar to the one Brent describes in his DVD:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-3/15236/tn_chris-trade-beads-7-09-011.jpg (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-3/15236/chris-trade-beads-7-09-011.jpg)
(click for larger image)
OK that was more like a buck's worth. Hope it helps!
Chris - Your two cents is worth way more than a buck ;)
You have no idea how not having a kiln is killing me right now LOL I ordered one from TheGlassHive and it's in the works. I still have a month to wait, so in the meantime...
I will try the white encasement. I read a lot about it here, and it only makes sense :)
I have come to the conclusion that I'm more of a video learner when it comes to glass and YouTube has been rather weak. So I caved and ordered Brent's DVD couple days ago. I can't wait to get it!
Those arrowheads are awesome. Oh heck they're all awesome. You will make the ladies very happy 8)
LePatron
2011-08-04, 8:42am
Try sticking a rod of star white in a blowtube, melt it in so its encased in clear, then add dap over that. Makes it really deep if there's no haze so you can see the reflected light rather than just transmitted light!
Chris and LePatron - thanks for you ideas here's what I came up with:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/ventchimney/lwe/11080401.jpg
Encasing helps soooo much with the soupiness factor! Awesome!
Wow they look awesome. Is that the sleeved white encased with DAP?
Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm stoked!!!
Wow they look awesome. Is that the sleeved white encased with DAP?
Yep! I stuck some white in a blowtube then encased that with DAP. It seemed a lot less soupy too!
Ok, I just tried it and the clear kept cracking all over the place, any idea what I did wrong? I inserted the white in the tube and warmed about 12" inches of it, then started at the end and heated it until it was soupy and moved up until I was finished, then I statrted encasing with silver creek and the clear started cracking.
deb tarry
2011-08-04, 10:15pm
just try a short piece two or three inches.
Mine was about an inch and a half or so. I'm not sure whether my technique was correct but after I put the white in the tube, I melted then smushed it a little bit then re-pulled it to more of a rod-like shape then immediately encased the DAP over it.
Heaven forbid... I probably won't be able to make those colors again: beginner's luck.
If you have been careful not to trap any air, it's probably cracking because the heating and cooling has created stress in the glass. Either anneal your encased rod, or work it into a gather in the process of melting in the encasement.
Personally, I suggest the following: create a gather of white, and use clear rod to stripe encase it. Then proceed with your color encasement. That's how I'd proceed anyway. Tubing encasement is useful too but I tend to use it more for sleeving atmosphere-sensitive colors.
Nate: If you're melting glass in this heat you're an animal. AN ANIMAL!
Chris, I used to be a chef and can take a lot of heat but working glass this time of year is more uncomfortable that I would have thought. LOL now I just try it at night and only for a few minutes to check out some new colors I bought, I couldn't resist.
if the hest is a problem, you should get a blast shield >> http://theblastshield.com/
Bunyip
2011-08-05, 12:32pm
When It's 95 degrees and over 70% humidity ye olde blast shield only helps so much...
Typically I look like I jumped in the pool fully clothed after about 10 mins of yard work...in the shade.
Firebrand Beads
2011-08-12, 10:45am
trying to think who it was who stood in a wading pool of cold water while working the torch... maybe the guys at GreyMatter in Albuquerque?
trying to think who it was who stood in a wading pool of cold water while working the torch... maybe the guys at GreyMatter in Albuquerque?
That's a great idea! It was only in the 70s when I was working on my Red Max a couple days ago and I was sweating bullets in 10 minutes! LOL
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