Zigzag Encasing Question

[Renee]

I love the look of what has been described as zigzag encasing, but I've searched all over and can't find where it explains what it is, or more to the point, how it's done. I know what zigzag is in general, but just how do you do this type of encasing? Please, please, please - will someone come to my rescue? Pretty please? [-o< [-o< [-o< I'm not beyond bribery if that's what it takes...

[Mr. Smiley]

Lori Robbins explains it in her book... pick that book up, it's got a lot of good recipes in it. ;)

Basically, I use 3 or 4 mm clear rod. Once I have my bead ready for clear, I lay down 2 or 3 layers of clear in a zigzag pattern. It's like scroll work with stringer. I just go side to side on the bead and when I get to where I started, I follow the same line and stack 2 or 3 layers. When it melts in, it stretches the frit or design into a cool pattern. I hope this helps. :love:

[Renee]

Thanks, Brent! I knew I could count on you. :-D I need to do some reading on boro beads in general. I was so disappointed this morning when I found my two large-hole boro beads had broken in the kiln. :confused: What's that about??? ](*,) I spend who knows how long on these two beads and they freakin' broke. I was not a happy camper. My annealing schedule starts at 1030 degrees for an hour. Is that too low? (I know I don't need to soad them for an hour, but when I do marbles, I don't have to change it. Come to think of it, my larger marbles haven't appreciated being annealed - they cracked. Hmmmm... Maybe I'm on to something here... Whatcha think?

[Over the Moon]

Try annelaing at 1050 minimum...at your temperature, you haven't actually been annealing them :)

[Mr. Smiley]

I agree, bump it up a bit. ;)

[Tanya]

Doug Remscneider expains the zig-zag pattern in his Boro Bead Magic dvd. He only does one layer of zig-zag clear, melts that in then encases the whole thing. I haven't read Lori Robbin's book yet.

Depending on the size of your big-hole beads, you might need to anneal them for more than an hour. You can anneal at 1030 but you'll have to anneal for more time - Doug anneals some of the ones from his video at under 1000 but for 4 hours. Also, caution on the cooling rate.

[Renee]

Thanks everyone! I'll take out my manual and decipher increasing the temp. I'd have to find my notes about the cooling rate, but I seem to recall that I took the schedule from Dunham's book. The beads that were found broken this morning were on a 7/16" and 3/8" mandrels. I'm going to look into getting Lori's and/or Doug's book/dvd. You never can have too much info and reference material - besides, I love reading all about this!! Again, thanks!!!!!

[Mr. Smiley]

I meant to say that I have no idea how Lori does it. That stacking technique is something I figured out. She may do it like doug does. There are so many ways to skin a cat. ;)

Also, be real careful about saying anything is annealed if you don't go to 1050... it may not be broken, but stress can still be present. I don't agree with Doug's view on "annealing" at all. There is science behind this and you can't alter the physical properties of glass, just to suit your color needs. :D

[Tanya]

Lauri Copeland uses a method similar to yours Smiley, only with different colors of glass then encases the whole thing in clear. Nice stripe effect.

Technically the molecules in the glass should be able to move around to some extent until they reach the strain point, below which they can no longer move. I think the strain point of boro is around 960. At lower temps they can't move as quickly so the soak time has to be longer to relieve the stress. In Dunham's book he does mention lower annealing temps, although not as low as some of Doug's temperatures. Personally, I like to anneal above 1050 or 1100 depending on the colors I'm working with.

[Renee]

Ya know, with any luck, one day I may know a small percentage of what you guys know! I do so appreciate your help. I did adjust the annealing temp on my kiln to 1050, and I made a large-hole boro bead in its honor. I'll have to wait till morning to see whether my kiln wants to reciprocate and honor me! I know that the glass can still have stress even after annealing (or what I thought was annealing), and fortunately I still have all the boro items. Needless to say, I intend to keep all of them given their questionable state. I also made a large-hole bead with soft glass, which I'm actually really anxious to see. But that too shall wait.

One of the beads that I found broken this morning I had zigzag'ed (I took a stab at what I hoped was the correct encasing), melted it in and then encased the whole thing. Interestingly, in addition to the bead breaking into two pieces, the encasing itself broke off, too! I think that's another sign that the temp was too low.

Also, is it me and my inexperience, or does it take forever to make a boro bead? I haven't measured the beads, but each bead is taking about an hour! I have a Phantom, so I've got plenty heat. Maybe I'm not using enough (heat)?

Thanks, again Brent & Tanya! You help is really, really appreciated!!!

[Mr. Smiley]

Tanya... what you said is very true... but the ability to relieve stress is slowed down exponentially. What takes an hour at 1050 may take a week or more at 980. I didn't do actual math before making that statement... but it's really really drastic, depending on the thickness of the piece. If you have the proper soak time and take the time to calculate it... you can releive stress at any temp above the strain point... I just don't have that much time. If you set your kiln at 980 or 1000 and it's off (most kilns are off), then you may be sitting at or below the strain point and doing nothing. Once you get up between 1050 and 1100, you can pretty much bet your kiln is hot enough to do the task of releiving stress. The next important thing is to go slowly enough to strain point and not introduce new stress into the relaxed glass. Soaking glass at annealing point is only part of the annealing process. The slow ramp down is often forgotten about, but it's really just as important.

Renee... I am saying a little prayer for your beads... ;) If the encasing popped off, I would say you have compatibility issues. Are you sure it was boro and not some other COE of clear? It shouldn't just pop off, no matter what. Bench cooling may cause the bead to crack, but melted in clear should always stay put. It's worth double checking. Mixed up glass can be super frustrating. :love:

[HardwoodTrailGlass]

Renee, how big are your beads that take an hour on a Phantom? That seems way too long to me, but I am new to Boro too. But an hour? I'd definitely be frustrated.

[Renee]

Brent, the power of prayer is amazing! [-o< [-o< [-o< My beads survived!! Whoohoooo! We won't talk about my zigzag's looking more like hairpin turns, however..... It looks like increasing the soaking temp was the answer. Thanks - you rock \\:D/

Carrie, the boro bead that I made last night is 31.3x19.7, and the soft glass is 21x22. The soft glass bead didn't take near as long, but I didn't notice how long it took. The boro bead was, again, a long time - at least an hour. I think perhaps part of the answer is that I'm doing very little marvering, letting the heat just do its thing. Maybe that's why. I just dunno. How long are you finding it takes you? I've only just started trying boro beads. Usually, I make marbles with the boro, which also take around an hour, so this is a new area for me. I'm also finding that getting a really good footprint is much harder on these big-hole mandrels, and it it's taking me a while to get it straight (hahaha - punny, don't you think?) What's your experience with the time factor with your Phantom?

[Cosmo]

I do it a little differently. I don't zig zag it at all. I do it like this:

http://soleiletlune.com/tutorials/wave.html

Keep in mind that those photos are over a year old. I've come a long way since then...

[Renee]

Thanks, Chad! I appreciate you sharing that. In fact, I feel so indebted to everyone who shares anything. I hope one day I'll come up with something unique so I can reciprocate. BTW, your marbles are awesome!!

[Curly Irish Girl]

Lori's book isn't available....out of stock for quite a while. Brent - thanks for the BIG Ahaaaa!!! STACK the clear squiggled - somehow everything I've read I've managed to miss the STACK part...thanks bunches....will try it tomorrow as I battle the implosion pendant demons!!!!

Lori Robbins explains it in her book... pick that book up, it's got a lot of good recipes in it. ;)

Basically, I use 3 or 4 mm clear rod. Once I have my bead ready for clear, I lay down 2 or 3 layers of clear in a zigzag pattern. It's like scroll work with stringer. I just go side to side on the bead and when I get to where I started, I follow the same line and stack 2 or 3 layers. When it melts in, it stretches the frit or design into a cool pattern. I hope this helps. :love:

[Renee]

I looked all over for Lori's book, and found out what you said - no one has it! I did get Doug Remschneider's DVD - Boro Bead Magic, and ta-da - the answer to my question and more great stuff! Thanks everyone!

[jaxglass]

To order Lori's boro book, please contact her directly at www.lorirobbins.com. The book had X number of copies originally printed, but more printings are happening upon increased demand of the book. Lori is the co-author, along with Rocio and Ron Bearer, Jr., so she is the first to have new copies. Great book, lots of info! Boro rocks, and Lori and Rocio have many great tips to share with you!!! I highly recommend this recipe book!=D>

Chris

[Mr. Smiley]

Yeah Chris... thanks for passing that info on. Duh, I should have linked to her site. ;)

I drove through Jax Monday and thought of you... did you get the creepy feeling? :lol: