Make your own press???

[totallytorched]

Not sure if this is in the right spot, but has anyone tried to make their own press??

Thanks,

Jenni

[Rose Leslie]

I have been thinking about going up to votech and talking with the metal smith or welding class to find out about this. Maybe they can do some of the stamps. Don't know until I ask though.

[totallytorched]

I found a place that I can buy bars of brass from fairly inexspensive, and my husband has a drill press, so we thought just maybe, but I was curious to see if anyone else had attempted it. Let me know what you find out :grin:




Jenni

[Julabula]

I asked my husband if he could make some presses (he's an ME and has designed and built me TONS of stuff, love him!), but he said that unless we buy the proper equipment (about $3k - $5k) he couldn't. (He said you can't do it on a drill press, but what do I know...). He said it's much more economical to buy them because unless you are running a huge production, the time and effort and supplies just to make one isn't worth it. (But, if ever I want to buy him the equipment, he said he'll design anything I want.....dreaming, but maybe one day....) lol

[BillBrach]

Actually, you could make your own press, but just not out of brass.

Why not make it out of clay and fire it in your kiln. Got a local pottery class you could take ?? Make your press there.

Use 'raku' clay, it is supposed to be the most durable. The only other thing I'm not sure of is that you might need to keep the press at 1000 degrees or so, so it might have to be in your kiln.

You could reach into the kiln with a Kevlar heat glove, extract the press and set it on your marver pad, press the bead, and return the bead and press seperately to the kiln.

Might work, let us know !!

[totallytorched]

That could possibly work, but poor me, I can't afford a kiln right now-hehe

I was also told you could use cherry wood, if you keep it wet?? Totally not sure, but I might try it. Dh has a few machinist friends, so maybe if I order the brass they can machine it for me. If anyone tries the PMC, I would love to know the results :-D Thanks everyone for all the suggestions :-D



Jenni

[shawnette]

Actually, you could make your own press, but just not out of brass.

Why not make it out of clay and fire it in your kiln. Got a local pottery class you could take ?? Make your press there.

Use 'raku' clay, it is supposed to be the most durable. The only other thing I'm not sure of is that you might need to keep the press at 1000 degrees or so, so it might have to be in your kiln.

You could reach into the kiln with a Kevlar heat glove, extract the press and set it on your marver pad, press the bead, and return the bead and press seperately to the kiln.

Might work, let us know !!

These may seem like dumb questions but oh well. I wanna know:

Why would you need to keep it hot? Thermal shock?
If you keep it hot, won't the glass stick to it?

Thanks!

[BillBrach]

Shawnette,

Yes, thermal shock is what I had in mind. Actually, I don't think it would be a problem, and I think it would work at room temp. The only other problem I can think of is the ceramic mold might need to be kiln washed to keep the glass from sticking.

You could easily (and cheaply) experiment with 'Plaster of Paris' available from craft stores or home improvement stores. Its pretty brittle, but I think if it worked w/o too many problems, then I'm almost postive that raku clay would work well. I've used Plaster of Paris to make slip-casting molds too. You'd probably want to 'google' slip casting to find out how that works.

Bill

[swamper]

Bill,

I tried this with a product called Castalot. It's made for making your own slumping molds. You mix a powder with water, shape it ( I submerged a dental wax model in it in the shape of the squeeze press and after it hardened (it was quick) I cut in in half. the stuff is rubbery untill you fire it. I fired the mold halves but quess what? I didn't consider that the stuff had to be coated with kiln wash to keep the glass from sticking so it was not much use to me. But I had fun trying and maybe I'll come up with another use for this stuff - like slumping.....

[BillBrach]

One of the things you have to be careful with too is the KIND of slumping you are doing with ceramic molds.

Because a ceramic mold shrinks and expands about one HALF of glass, this means you can slump INTO them but you cannot slump OVER them.

I've successfully slumped over a properly designed slump over shape, but only by using a special mold release called boron nitride -AND- by pulling the glass off when it and the mold are still at 700 degrees !! I reach into the kiln with hot gloves, seperate the piece of glass from the mold, and set both peices back down in the kiln to finishing cooling.

[jokersdesign]

You could make these products for yourself on a combination benchtop mill and lathe. each unit costs about $400 and a few hundred more for toolong need to make the cuts for presses. The process would be very slow but you would save alot and make up a return on your investments in no time if you use alot of presses. You would also get to make your own custom presses that no one is selling yet, what an edge.

[Dale M.]

You could make these products for yourself on a combination benchtop mill and lathe. each unit costs about $400 and a few hundred more for toolong need to make the cuts for presses. The process would be very slow but you would save alot and make up a return on your investments in no time if you use alot of presses. You would also get to make your own custom presses that no one is selling yet, what an edge.

aaah.... You forgot to mention the 100 hours of learning to do mill work involved with operating these more complicated machines....

Dale

[jokersdesign]

True the 100 hours of learning is assumed as are mistakes that you learn from. Just like everyone here spent many more hours learning to work with glass in the flame.

But just like with working glass in the flame your learning curve can be greatly reduced in half or more with a few books, videos, hands on classes, a great forum like http://www.cnczone.com, and practice, practice, practice.

[misfit]

One of my engenier freinds with a cnr ( right name?) machine makes presses for me. basically the machine follows a computer program to cut out the shape precisely. Its how I get my presses with the patterns on them to press out the lentels with the dragons and celtic knotwork and such. (He's thinking about making them for sale as well since he says its no harder to make 100 than 1 really once he has the program written) When I asked him in the beginning if there was a reasonable way for me to make a press- his answer was either buy one of these machines (about5k), take a lot of classes or ask him nicely. ;)

A.

[jokersdesign]

One of my engenier freinds with a cnr ( right name?) machine makes presses for me. basically the machine follows a computer program to cut out the shape precisely. Its how I get my presses with the patterns on them to press out the lentels with the dragons and celtic knotwork and such. (He's thinking about making them for sale as well since he says its no harder to make 100 than 1 really once he has the program written) When I asked him in the beginning if there was a reasonable way for me to make a press- his answer was either buy one of these machines (about5k), take a lot of classes or ask him nicely. ;)

A.

I would agree in part with this.

If you are going to make complicated designs like Dragons and Celtic in a press the yes you would need a CNC machine and you would need to teach yourself CNC code or at least CAM software to write the CNC code for you from your designs.

Now if you want to make simple presses and tools like theses,

http://users.mn.astound.net/jokersdesign/tools.jpg

Then you only need a bench top manual mill and lathe and some practice, practice, practice. This setup could be done for much less then 5K. If you only went with one machine at a time either a mill or lathe you could get a setup and tooling for about $400 - $800. If you bought a mill and lathe with tooling you could get a nice setup for $800 - $1600.

Now if you want to go the CNC route you could get a system in the range of $2000 - $3000. These system would not be heavy duty, but you could still make the complicated design like dragons and Celtics just at a slow cut rate. Kind of like the different between making a bead on a hothead compared to a Nortel Minor.

[MikeAurelius]

Uh, Robert? At least 3 of those pictures are copyrighted. By me.

I don't mind personal use of the pictures, but I do draw the line at posting them on the internet without permission.

[jokersdesign]

Mike no problem they have been removed.

Common Mike you know me personally I was not stealing your pictures for personal profit or benifit. I was only helping a member that asked a question. I only photoshoped a collection of pictures to give an exapmle as to what kind of tools one could make on their own if they choose to buy a mill or lathe.

[jokersdesign]

Ok for those of you that want to make your own tools and presses and are willing to learn to do manual machining like you learned to work with glass in the flame this is what you can make.

http://www.zooziis.com/

All you need to do is buy a manual mill and lathe then Practice, Practice, Practice like you do when working with glass. Here is an expamle of the machines needed.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44991

and

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684

Lets share the information and let freedom ring.

[jwelsh]

actually my husband's friend at his work made me a bead press. but guess what, i haven't had a chance to use it. between listing jeff's glass and kids and everyday things, i haven't had the chance to make beads in about 6 months... i need some ME time! sandra ..
here are a couple pics i just ran out a took of it! it has 3 different sizes and each side is the same so all you have to do is line up mandrel and PRESS!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/SWELSH050474/beadpress12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/SWELSH050474/beadpress22.jpg

[Dale M.]

Uh, Robert? At least 3 of those pictures are copyrighted. By me.

I don't mind personal use of the pictures, but I do draw the line at posting them on the internet without permission.

Thats really funny.......... What about all my copyrighted data on AGF that I have asked you to remove????

Dale

[totallytorched]

I really didn't mean to start a fight GIRLS-hehe
Thanks all for all the info, my dad brought me home some brass form work, and our neighbor has a mill so I think we are going to ask him if he can do it.
We have some scrap pieces and a drill press like this one http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43389
Would this not work?

[totallytorched]

Maybe I forgot to mention all I want is a tab press, which in my non mechanical mind seems a bit easier than say a lentil?

[krista michael]

I reach into the kiln with hot gloves, seperate the piece of glass from the mold, and set both peices back down in the kiln to finishing cooling.


I don't know you Bill but damn! That stirred up a little hot flash! LOL

[BillBrach]

Krista.

Damn straight when you reach in that kiln you get a hot flash !! A REALLY BIG ONE when you CRACK that door !!

Hows that, any better ??

Bill

[jokersdesign]

I really didn't mean to start a fight GIRLS-hehe
Thanks all for all the info, my dad brought me home some brass form work, and our neighbor has a mill so I think we are going to ask him if he can do it.
We have some scrap pieces and a drill press like this one http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43389
Would this not work?

You might me able to make some basic molds. I think you can do more with a lathe and mill. With a mill you have a table the moves on a X axis from left to right, a Y axis that moves forward and backwards, and a Z axis that moves up and down.

[BillBrach]

You won't be able to use a drill press as a mill. They simply don't have the torsional stiffness required to use a milling cutter. Try a simple test. Extend the 'quill' on the drill press. Thats the chuck/barrel assembly that moves down when you turn the handle. You can probably lock it in the down position. Now grab it and move it sideways. I'll bet there is a little bit of 'play'/looseness when doing this. This play will cause a milling cutter to 'chatter' so bad as to make milling anything other than balsa wood all but impossible. I think that even milling graphite will not result in a smooth cut. Also, you have the problem of no XY axis control either.

A drill press is designed for one thing and that is to push DOWN on a drill with extreme force. SIDEWAYS force capability is not designed into a drill press.

[jokersdesign]

Thats really funny.......... What about all my copyrighted data on AGF that I have asked you to remove????

Dale


Oh SNAP!

[MikeAurelius]

LOL Robert. Consider the source...and let it be.

[Dale M.]

And now we have Mike's latest contempt for members of glass community... Seems copyright rules only apply for him (be sure to check time/date stamp).

http://www.artglassforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1874

Dale M.

[MikeAurelius]

Be sure you also read who actually POSTED the thread. Not me. Jerry.

And Dale, maybe you should read the copyright laws. Once you post something in public WITHOUT A COYRIGHT STATEMENT, and post that exact same content on multiple websites, you have placed it into the public domain. It cannot be copyrighted AFTER THE FACT. You went back and edited each of your posts in the technical section many many months after you made the original post and ADDED the copyright. You can't do that, my friend.

The posts you made on AGF are identical to those you made on ISGB, yet there is no copyright on the ISGB posts. PUBLIC DOMAIN.

[ltsexpressions]

One of my engenier freinds with a cnr ( right name?) machine makes presses for me. basically the machine follows a computer program to cut out the shape precisely. Its how I get my presses with the patterns on them to press out the lentels with the dragons and celtic knotwork and such. (He's thinking about making them for sale as well since he says its no harder to make 100 than 1 really once he has the program written) When I asked him in the beginning if there was a reasonable way for me to make a press- his answer was either buy one of these machines (about5k), take a lot of classes or ask him nicely. ;)

A.

so where are these for sale at?????

inquiring minds,

[Dale M.]

so where are these for sale at?????

inquiring minds,

I am going to answer this as if you are referring to a CNC mill as that is the thrust of the thread at this time.

I seriously doubt you are going to find a CNC mill for $5K... These are usually big ticket items and can run up to hundreds of thousands of dollars... Also you need to be a pretty competent CAD designer and be able write and proof CNC tool "scripts"... It's something one does not learn overnight.

Check local phone book for "machine tool dealers"... Also E-BAY, use search stings of "machine tools", "CNC tools", "CNC mills", "CNC machines"...

Also a GOOGLE search with above "search stings" will furnish you with enough information to keep you reading for months...

Dale M.

[BillBrach]

***,

How long are you going to continue to HIDE behind "******" apron ??

Mommy, Mommy, **** hit me !!!

Everybody KNOWS that "*****" EQUALS **** w/respect to ***. They are for all practical purposes ONE AND THE SAME person !!

What a joke !! Best laugh I've had today !!

Bill

[Lynn Larson]

Hey guys...this really needs to calm down. Please, PLEASE, have some respect for each other and the other people in this forum! As an adult, I have discovered that I don't have to like everyone, but I don't have to tell everyone else.

I am asking nicely to please edit your posts. The biggest rule on this forum, and about the only one, is that you do not bash other people. We have a hard time sticking to that rule at times. If you feel the need to really air it out, that is what the Bathroom is for, but the no bashing rule still applies there.

[jokersdesign]

I don’t know why but for some reason when it comes to sharing information people are helpful and encouraging that it can be done.

At other times with some things every possible excuse is used to discourage people at trying something new like, you will not learn to do this until you spend many years in college learning to machine and CNC and then many more years of hands on practice and experience machining and CNC. You need to have an investment of several thousands of dollars to do this. Now some of this is true if you want to establish a business and mass-produce products to resell wholesale all over the country.

If you just want to get a new hobby make your own glass tools, molds, and presses and maybe even have a small business then you can do this at home with a bench top mill machine and lathe machine or bench top CNC machine. Home machining and CNC is exploding all over the country big time right now, probably even more so the beading and glass art.

If you want to make complicated design for glass molds, presses, and tools like these,

http://cosmiccowglass.com/

Then you need to start learning CNC and get a small bench top CNC machine like this one.

http://www.taigtools.com/cmill.html
http://www.sherlinedirect.com/merchant.cfm?id=14&step=2


If you want to know more about CNC machining go to http://www.cnczone.com. There are many links to many machines that CAN be had for $2000 - $5000. These machines will be on the smaller bench top size compared to the big floor units that are big a truck and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. They will be limited and slow, but will work for the kind of tools we use and glass artists and many more useful things. My comparison is like comparing the different between a hothead torch to a Nortel Minor or a Nortel Minor to a Barracuda torch.

Now if you want to make more simple tools like all the ones here,

http://www.zooziis.com/tools.html

Then you only need a manual mill machine and manual lathe machine like these,

http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html
http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html
http://www.sherlinedirect.com/merchant.cfm

I encourage you to be brave and try new things. The learning curve is different fro everyone and is not a big as you might think. You can also reduce your learning curve greatly by buying a few books like these.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966543300/qid=1126195606/sr=8-4/ref=pd_bbs_4/103-1848847-3007032?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0830615733/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/103-1848847-3007032?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Renting a few video like these,

http://technicalvideorental.com/rental_0.html

This website is the best for video rental look under Machinist basic section. Also there is a glass section that has many videos you might be interested in.

Then the rest is practice, practice, practice.

[totallytorched]

Listen boys, you had some interesting stuff to tell me, but now you are cloggin my thread with your bashing and bickering, take it to pms!

You'd think sometimes men are worse than women in their drama :lol:

Thanks again for all the help, i do appreciate it :-D



Jenni

[Peg Medill]

Robin Poff took her dremel tool and made me a shallow circle in a brass cylinder to use as a press. It works. Peg M

[Dale M.]

I don’t know why but for some reason when it comes to sharing information people are helpful and encouraging that it can be done.

At other times with some things every possible excuse is used to discourage people at trying something new like, you will not learn to do this until you spend many years in college learning to machine and CNC and then many more years of hands on practice and experience machining and CNC. You need to have an investment of several thousands of dollars to do this. Now some of this is true if you want to establish a business and mass-produce products to resell wholesale all over the country.

If you just want to get a new hobby make your own glass tools, molds, and presses and maybe even have a small business then you can do this at home with a bench top mill machine and lathe machine or bench top CNC machine. Home machining and CNC is exploding all over the country big time right now, probably even more so the beading and glass art.

If you want to make complicated design for glass molds, presses, and tools like these,

http://cosmiccowglass.com/

Then you need to start learning CNC and get a small bench top CNC machine like this one.

http://www.taigtools.com/cmill.html
http://www.sherlinedirect.com/merchant.cfm?id=14&step=2


If you want to know more about CNC machining go to http://www.cnczone.com. There are many links to many machines that CAN be had for $2000 - $5000. These machines will be on the smaller bench top size compared to the big floor units that are big a truck and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. They will be limited and slow, but will work for the kind of tools we use and glass artists and many more useful things. My comparison is like comparing the different between a hothead torch to a Nortel Minor or a Nortel Minor to a Barracuda torch.

Now if you want to make more simple tools like all the ones here,

http://www.zooziis.com/tools.html

Then you only need a manual mill machine and manual lathe machine like these,

http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html
http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html
http://www.sherlinedirect.com/merchant.cfm

I encourage you to be brave and try new things. The learning curve is different fro everyone and is not a big as you might think. You can also reduce your learning curve greatly by buying a few books like these.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966543300/qid=1126195606/sr=8-4/ref=pd_bbs_4/103-1848847-3007032?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0830615733/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/103-1848847-3007032?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Renting a few video like these,

http://technicalvideorental.com/rental_0.html

This website is the best for video rental look under Machinist basic section. Also there is a glass section that has many videos you might be interested in.

Then the rest is practice, practice, practice.


I am not trying to discourage anybody from doing anything. I am just trying to make people aware that is not a simple as making something like cookie dough.... Some aspects of mold/pattern making are pretty intense and sophisticated and there is a long learning cure for more intricate designs...

I'm sorry if I said anything that was belittling or indicating it was to complicated for the average person...

I have been around machine shops, machine tools, and hot rod shops for many years, and there are many things about this that are not "simply buy a machine tool and simply turn out a pattern"....

Sorry If I gave wrong impression.

Dale

[jokersdesign]

Hey Jenni,

I want to apologize for everyone. I also noticed that your thread got hijacked and off topic and I did not want it to continue that way so I tried my best to post and stay on topic and answer your questions.

Dale,

I was not referring to you, I was just making a post about my observation regarding posts on all forums that sometimes peoples suggestions has very helpful and encouraging and sometimes they are discouraging people to do things.

[totallytorched]

I just hope you guys continue to post, I post these threads in here knowing you guys will reply, and I look forward to reading your posts, they are very beneficial!! You guys are really flippin intelligent and we need your input :-D
Just minus the fighting, I understand the reasoning, not the root, because I haven't been around long, but it's just a shame that you guys can't put your heads together and make something huge out of it!!
Thanks for always posting in my threads and giving me great info whether or not it was what I wanted to hear, I find it to be very helpful ;)



Jenni

[beachbeads]

MEOW!!!! I have made some great lentil and tab presses out of tea spoons which I attatched to tongs, and some leaf presses out of lemon squeezers. I use both of this alot.

[jacki]

on another note, a bit over a year ago (???) Robert Michelson wrote an article in one of the glass mags on casting brass molds. It was a very clear tutorial. NOt terriblly difficult if you have the tools. I think the only thing you would need is a torch to melt the bronze/brass. something to make the model out of, and some mold making material to cast the brass into.

You could make some very unique molds this way!
Jacki

ps. and a crucible

[tmmopar73]

try calling a technical high school that has a machine shop they will probably do it very cheap.

[MikeAurelius]

on another note, a bit over a year ago (???) Robert Michelson wrote an article in one of the glass mags on casting brass molds. It was a very clear tutorial. NOt terriblly difficult if you have the tools. I think the only thing you would need is a torch to melt the bronze/brass. something to make the model out of, and some mold making material to cast the brass into.

You could make some very unique molds this way!
Jacki

ps. and a crucible

AND good ventilation! Metal vapors, especially brass, are hazardous!

[totallytorched]

Thanks to all for all the great ideas!! I still have yet to talk to the neighbor, not enough hours in a day :???: