How hot is too hot for boro

[FlameDancer]

Is there really such a thing as being able to burn the color out of boro and would I even be able to do it on Natural Gas? I know my torch gets hot but just how hot, compared to regular propane, I have no clue. I can barely hold my hand anywhere NEAR the flame, while holding the mandrel but maybe there's a different hot. I just don't know.

Where does the color poop come from? Is is where the glass just didn't get hot enough? Is it where the glass isn't struck right? Am I holding my mouth in the wrong position? There's got to be reason's and I have GOT to figure this out. I am moving the soft glass off my table and moving the boro in. I AM determined damnit!

Any and all help would be greatly appriciated.

[Mr. Smiley]

Pics would help identify the "poop". Some colors don't like too much heat, they boil. Some only boil in a range and there for, more heat is good. The old gunmounts and some of the boro sticks will wash out or fade if you cook them too hot. There's no one easy answer. ;)

[IF-Designs]

Also Krissa the "heat" your feeling could be the increased radiant heat that is natural to boro. You may not be boiling or over heatnig your glass it just throws off ALOT of radiant heat some colors are MUCHHHHHHHHH worse than others. and yes Pictures are very helpful to figuring out what your color problems may or may not be.

[FlameDancer]

Thanks you guys. Let me take some pics and I'll be right back. When the color boils, won't you "see" it boil?

[FlameDancer]

Here are the poopy beads. The first one is the "Dougie Pink" or what's supposed to LOOK like the pink. The second one is well, I can't remember what it is and the third one is Silver Strike 3. I just wish I knew what kind of heat the colors needed. Being a soft glass worker, I'm always afraid I am going to boil the colors and lose them.

Help :)

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[Emily]

I know exactly the color poop she's talking about. It's a light opaque tan. I remember Doug Remschneider telling our class that it comes from working the glass too long in a particular temperature range, and that once you've got it, there's no way to make it go away. I just can't figure out how not to do it.

It's not quite the same as overstriking the ruby and not having your Dougie Pink come out right. You can screw up Dougie Pink without going the whole way into poop tan. When I try to do Dougie Pink, pretty much always it comes out looking like the pictures that Krissa posted.

(Krissa, Doug did say that the darker your ruby is in the rod, the more likely it is to overstrike and go opaque and salmony when you're working with it. For our class, we got a batch of ruby that was totally clear in the rod, and I think Doug got in touch with the supplier (Wale) and bought the rest of what they had in stock from that batch.)

Krissa, some boro does boil. The crayon colors -- the bright reds, yellows, and oranges -- get little bubbles that look just like soft glass boiling. I'm sure there's a word for whatever process is causing the poopy colors, but it's not boiling. I suppose I should learn the word, because whatever that process is called, I do a heck of a lot of it.

[Mr. Smiley]

I'm experimenting with using the Elvis red... no poop. I'll see what comes out of the kiln today.

If you are working amber purples, you really want to work them hot... then let them cool below glow to strike. The range Doug is reffering to is about 1200. The crystals grow very fast at that temp and it goes into phase seperation. At least that's how I understand the chemistry... phase seperation = poop. :D Work it hotter or cooler, but not long in that range. ;)

[Emily]

Phase separation! That's the phrase I remember. OK, since there are no thermometers on torches, what does that mean we should try to do? The impression I got was that we should try to work really hot and fast, then, to try to strike colors, let the glass cool until there is no visible glow, then reintroduce far out in the flame and bring closer gradually until the color develops.

You now have the sum total of my boro-working knowledge. Care to add to it?

[FlameDancer]

I think I am twistie challanged. Mine are not consistant, therefore, when I use them, such as the Dougie Pink, it always comes out different. I have gotten a pretty good pink, SOME TIMES. Others, they just come out looking like the ones above. I do tend to "fuss" with the glass, longer than necessary but I am VERY picky about my ends and have to tuck the glass just so and then my beads have to be round, not wonky at all, or it drives me crazy. I would say that I am most definitely over working the glass then.

Brent, if I could get a couple of people over here to take a class, would you consider coming to the Charlotte area? huh, huh, huh???

[FlameDancer]

Emily you took a class with Doug? He just makes it look wayyyy to easy, lol. I watched his video and was like, oh yea, I can do that! Yea, right! It's definitely NOT that simple.

I am at the point that I don't even want to pick soft glass up again, until I understand boro much better. It confuses me to much to go back and forth.

I'd love to see some of your beads. Have you posted in the gallery? Off to go and look:)

[Emily]

I've taken a couple classes with Doug -- the Boro Bead Magic and one where we were playing with tubing and trying to make small vessels and ornaments. Did you see my post the other day where I said something about "mutant root vegetables"? That was the small vessels and ornaments class. I was the absolute dunce of both boro classes, and Doug's heart will probably sink into his stomach if he ever sees my name on another class list -- which he probably will, because even though I'm incompetent, I don't know when to give up.

[FlameDancer]

LOL you're too funny. If you're anything in person like you are in your posts, I promise he wants you there for your wit alone! LOL

I'm going to try and get Brent to come up here and teach a class. I would really like someone, that knows boro inside and out, to come and see my setup and tell me what they think.

[Over the Moon]

Doug's heart will probably sink into his stomach if he ever sees my name on another class list -- which he probably will, because even though I'm incompetent, I don't know when to give up.

You are too funny! I've seen that yucky colour as well...from what I understand, the glass has to be either very hot, or not...not that in-between stage where we "play", ponder our next move, and admire our work! That's that 1200 range where the yucky colour will start. Also, remember to keep burning off the haze as you lay on glass...
Most importantly - post pics...we all love seeing the boro eye candy, and have fun!

[gennym]

Believe it or not I managed to get "poop" out of Elvis last week - got overconfident and left it in the kiln for too long at too high a temp....so it's difficult but possible. I'm not sure why everyone tries so hard to do Dougie Pink - maybe it would be better to do some of the other ones that are easier to get in that video. The only one I haven't gotten consistently is DP - I'd recommend experimenting on your own with your favorite colors. You can paint any colors on clear and do the same techniques and get really nice results.

[c rox]

Encase your poop! It makes it look much better!
Cher

[FlameDancer]

Encase your poop! It makes it look much better!
Cher

:lol:

[e. mort]

The best advice I got was from Mr. Smiley who told me to keep it hot and clear until you are ready to strike your color. Once I started doing that, my colors improved about 100%, and best of all I am now able to repeat a lot of color. (That is all colors except Dougie Puke.) This a great forum for gathering and sharing info!

[suzanne]

Krissa my first dougie pink beads looked exactly like that. POOP. ( and so did about 100 other dougie pink beads after the first).

Last week I decided to try dougie pink again, and lord and behold....I got pink. I dropped the warm yellow to extra light yellow, and did not flame strike them fully. Just a tad bit, the cherrywood or ruby ( wichever works best for you) developes color really fast so you want to just flame kiss the bead untill you see some red streaks in the glass. Then pop it in the kiln.

I do the same to my pink beads as I do to my AP/DAP beads wich is keep them as clear as possible until striking.
I have found when making all my beads really hot the striking takes less time and no more poop, you might be working your beads a bit too cool. What you could try is make a tiny base of clear and then your color. THat way you have less color wich makes the beads more translucent and more visible of what you are doing .

Whenever I don;t get my beads hot enough before striking I get poop. More heat, and less striking did the trick for me:)

Suzanne