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Dale M.
2006-09-08, 8:04am
IN regards to continuing comments about if you puncture a hose or suffer a leak in your hose serving your hot head torch and your studio will fill with propane to explosive point in seconds……..

I wanted to test just how good the quality of my hose was, and how prone it was to the “leak”. I recently sacrificed my old hose to see if all the yelling about the “leak” was worrisome….

I literally tortured my OLD hose to death (5 years old to be exact)... First I put it under 120 psi air pressure and laid an red hot mandrel on hose it didn't burn through the hose, I did this several time... No leaks.... I then heated a 3/8 inch steel rod to red heat, it took almost 30 seconds for it burn through to a point where there was a air leak (bigger rod more heat base) . Before it burned through there was plenty of smoke and smell as warning. (yes, test was done outside in slight breeze).

Then I clamped end fitting to fence post and proceeded to pull and tug on hose for about 10 minutes, no failure... Switched ends and did same again no failure, ferrules and hose stayed connected together, all I accomplished was a bruised hip when my 240 pounds landed on a rock when I slipped and fell!. Conclusion is that hose is not going to just pop off the end fitting if constructed properly with quality barbed fitting and factory crimped ferrules. NO home made hoses here!

Back to work on hose, tried repeatedly to stab hose with mandrel and could not penetrate it with a blunt mandrel end. Took specific effort with scratch awl (pointed tool) to puncture hose... It is not going to happen accidentally as hose tends to roll off object poked at it (unless purposely poked with sharpened pointed tool or mandrel at red heat)....

Lastly I sliced hose open for a about a foot. What I found was an outer layer of rubber, a layer of woven webbing and inner layer of what appears to be neoprene and a final internal wall structure of nylon. Also cut ferrules off both ends and found brass connector designed with 6 barbs and absolutely no deterioration at point where barbs contacted nylon inner liner (both ends). Also ferrules were 1 inch long, approximated same length as barbed connection inside hose.

Hose manufacturer is Accuflex and is LP and natural gas certified to 350psi.... Hose date stamp 2001. However this manufacturer of “rubber” hose only. Can not vouch for company who assembles hoses (applied end pieces and crimped ferrules) as actually name of assembler of hose assembly has been lost over time. But evidence shows good quality.

Yes there will be a time when the ”accident” happens .... But if you drive car long enough you will have accident no matter how safe you try to be, and as long as planes fly surely there will be crashes.

My point is glass retailers will continue to sell hoses, people will continue to buy them. They are not going to go away. And I am trying very hard to be sure people have best possible information out there so they can be as safe as the "system" will allow....

Oh yah.... With nylon lined hose, no plasticizer oozing problem.... No gunk in hose no fireballs on hot head torch.... Neoprene (only) hoses will produce/exude plasticizer out of hose under pressure and cause the gunk/fireball/dragons breath problem.

IF people will take heed and get long hose so tank is outside yes it will be safer, but even fuel/oxygen torch users very dumbly keep tank inside studio no matter how much we hammer them about not doing it...

In closing I would like to make a few points. >> Find best quality hose, one that has UL marking stamped in rubber component of hose and rubber component is LPG certified. >>DO NOT BUY CHINA HOSE. >>Get hose long enough and arrange work station so tank is OUTSIDE. >>Hoses come in lengths up to 20 feet. >>Place hose in protected position under bench so it is not exposed to hot glass or mandrels. And off floor so it is not a tripping hazard. >>When running hose outside place it so there will NOT be any danger of door or window slamming on hose and pinching or damaging it. >> Regularly inspect hose for damage and test for leaks.

As the comedian Ron White says.... “You can't fix stupid”... Do not be the unfixable lampworker…

Dale

one-eared pig
2006-09-08, 2:19pm
As a HH and bulk tank user, THANKS!

pipojasper
2006-09-09, 4:36am
Thank you thank you thank you! I can breathe a little easier now! :)

cadia
2006-09-09, 4:56am
Thanks Dale,
I'm hooking mine up today for the first time - now with more confidence!
And sorry about thathip !:pout:
Cadia

FourTailsLampwork
2006-09-09, 6:45am
Thank you, Dale!! I do feel better.

Doolollies
2006-09-09, 7:56am
Dale, You never cease to amaze me. Sorry about the hip but THANKS for the hose test and your ongoing efforts to keep us safe and informed. I am forever thankful for your safety information and have been for years. I too am little more comfortable about my hoses today. We all need someone to look after us and you are that one. Thanks.
Have fun.
Linda

HONEYBUNNY72_99
2006-10-02, 9:06am
Does anyone have a pic of theie HH set up with a bulk tank?I am going to bulk this weekend and wanna do this correctly:)
Tina

Dale M.
2006-10-03, 7:58am
Lots of information to be found here...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12

Dale

MikeAurelius
2006-10-03, 8:07am
Dale, just so you know, I replicated your first experiment:

Pressurized a 1/4" diameter section of red "T" hose to 90 PSI.

Heated a 1/16" mandrel to red hot. Pressed the tip to the hose. It went straight through the hose, with little pressure.

Two tests, two different results.

Offered for what it's worth.

Dale M.
2006-10-03, 10:19am
Dale, just so you know, I replicated your first experiment:

Pressurized a 1/4" diameter section of red "T" hose to 90 PSI.

Heated a 1/16" mandrel to red hot. Pressed the tip to the hose. It went straight through the hose, with little pressure.

Two tests, two different results.

Offered for what it's worth.

I have to agree that forcing a red not mandrel into hose (intentionally) will produce that effect... I think mere accidental contact with hose with red hot mandrel will not immediately cause hazard if it is discovered and removed. Key words here is discovered and removed. And In conclusion any hose that shows sever burn marking (high pressure propane or low pressure welding) should be immediately replaced and old hose discarded, possibly cutting it up to prevent reuse of questionable hose.

Dale

MikeAurelius
2006-10-03, 10:23am
Yep.

My point always has been that it isn't so much the bead or the mandrel, but the things that can't be controlled - like a large dollop of molten glass falling on the pressurized hose - you can't exactly bend over and pick it up with your fingers. It will burn through, and in so doing will create flames as the rubber burns, then once the propane starts leaking ...

FourTailsLampwork
2006-10-08, 9:09am
I have my hose line set up UNDER my table; the torch is canted forward (so blobs of glass hit the table, not the hose), and the part of the hose that is visible has thin flexible metal sheathing wrapped over it to avoid exactly what Mike is talking about. I'm still super careful about where I'm waving mandrels or stringer blobs with droopy glass.

kahlamodie
2007-10-30, 7:44am
[QUOTE

In closing I would like to make a few points. >> Find best quality hose, one that has UL marking stamped in rubber component of hose and rubber component is LPG certified. >>DO NOT BUY CHINA HOSE. >>Get hose long enough and arrange work station so tank is OUTSIDE. >>Hoses come in lengths up to 20 feet. >>Place hose in protected position under bench so it is not exposed to hot glass or mandrels. And off floor so it is not a tripping hazard. >>When running hose outside place it so there will NOT be any danger of door or window slamming on hose and pinching or damaging it. >> Regularly inspect hose for damage and test for leaks.

As the comedian Ron White says.... “You can't fix stupid”... Do not be the unfixable lampworker…

Dale[/QUOTE]



Ok, this is an old thread but I just found it and when reading the comment about not buying China hose in big letters, I took my just-ordered hose out of the box, and right there on the side it says "Made in China."!!!

I got this hose from a well-known lampworking supply vendor.
Now I`m paranoid about it. Am I over-thinking this? My Dh accuses me of that all the time, but I really don`t want to blow up. :sad:

Dale M.
2007-10-30, 8:05am
Does hose have stenciled or embosses into cover "Certified for LP gas up to 300psi " or some variation of that text.... If NOTHING is printed on hose, I would be wary that hose may not be LP gas certified and I would call retailer and let then know it may be inferior product...

Other wise go with it ... You will probably be ok...

Dale

Cat
2007-10-30, 8:08am
I got my oxygen and propane hoses from Air Gas. They sell them pre-packaged from 25' to 100'. Propane is outside and I just got a 100' oxygen hose that stretches from my studio, down through the basement and out to the garage where my oxygen is set up. They will also make any length hose you need to keep your fuel outside.

kahlamodie
2007-10-30, 8:19am
It says:

K2 Products 1/4" grade T fuel gas hose 300 PSI WP Made in China




nothing about being certified though

Cat, nice to know some things are still made in the US... :)

Dale M.
2007-10-30, 4:34pm
It says:

K2 Products 1/4" grade T fuel gas hose 300 PSI WP Made in China




nothing about being certified though

Cat, nice to know some things are still made in the US... :)

Grade "T" means it is LPG rated (propane), and 300 PSI is working pressure so this indicates its probably ok.

Dale