Dumb question about bead release.

[BarbC]

I make all my beads at the studio where I take classes. There, I clean my beads and use the sink that everyone else does. So there is alot of this stuff going down the drain. Can I do this at home? I thought I read someplace that you should not do this.

[Kalera]

It's true... gradually, it will clog your traps. It's possible that the studio where you take classes is simply planning on replacing their traps periodically.

The other area for concern is that some of it won't collect in your traps, but will adhere to the sides of your drainpipe, especially in the nearly-horizontal runs, and your pipe will just gradually have less and less flow until it's completely blocked and impossible to clear out. That is a potential problem, and an expensive one to repair. Best case scenario; clean your beads in a sink that drains to your garden. Second best case scenario; clean your beads over a container so the debris settles to the bottom, then toss the dregs out in your garden. That's what I do, though I do want to install grey water piping in my kitchen and shower so the grey water runs into my front garden instead of being wasted in the sewer.

[BillBrach]

What I do is bust off as much of the hardened bead release into the garbage. This usually means ALL of the bead release NOT under the bead.

I them loosen them with pliers to hold the mandrel, and my blue rubber glove, and them soak them for a couple of hours.

Then, I twist them off, sliding the bead back and forth to clean the mandrel up, under running water in the kitchen sink. So, a tiny bit does end up going down the sink. I've been doing it this way for over 8 years now, and food clogs are the only thing I've had to deal with.

Nothing is going to happen like it getting hard in the plumbing, but it will clog the pipes up very slowly. It would be like putting a tiny bit of sand down the drain every day.

If you worry about the bead release going down the sink, draw some warm water into a plastic wash pan, and clean the beads in the pan. Then take the pan outside with the residue and water your plants or you lawn with it. Rinse the pan outside too.

[ElizabethCreations]

Geez! I never thought about that!!! I always clean my beads in my kitchen sink!! BAD!!!
Thanks for the question!! This is'nt dumb at all... Just never came in my mind that bead release can clog my pipes... Oh my!

[BillBrach]

Most kitchen drain systems will need cleaning anyway, because of the soap and bits of food that get into the pipes.

Luckily, homes have been built for many years with 'cleanout' in mind. we had ours done about 10 years ago not long after moving in, and about a month ago I did it again. So, about 10 years between reamings, is OK in my book !!

[DawnT]

Thanks for bringing this up. I really had no idea it was bad for my sink. Will pour my drippings outside from now on! :grin:

[Kalera]

Most kitchen drain systems will need cleaning anyway, because of the soap and bits of food that get into the pipes.

Luckily, homes have been built for many years with 'cleanout' in mind. we had ours done about 10 years ago not long after moving in, and about a month ago I did it again. So, about 10 years between reamings, is OK in my book !!

I agree, but if you live in an old house with small pipes that already have years of sticky residue, it can become a problem... just like washing root vegetables from the garden can become a problem. I live in a 1909 bungalow (calling it that makes it sound so much nicer than it really is!) and most of the pipes have been replaced, but in the last house I lived in the kitchen drainpipe was really small and already had 60 years of disgusting kitchen residue nearly obstructing the vertical run down to the basement. I had a lot of problems with clogging where the pipe ran under the house in the basement... to make matters worse, it was on a drainfield, so it didn't go into a larger pipe, it just went to a bunch of gravel under the basement floor! Not a great design, if you ask me.

Because that pipe was going to need replacement eventually, and I was broke, I wanted to extend its lifespan as much as possible. I also feared the inevitable day when the drainfield was filled up with debris, and would have to be dug out (at tremendous expense!) or else I would have to connect the kitchen drain to the sewer (at tremendous expense!) so I was super-anal about not running bead release down the drain. In this new old house, I'm much less careful, because it has new pipes and the kitchen drains to the sewer.

[MikeAurelius]

I use a paint bucket filled with water. I get them at my local Home Despot, they are about $4.75 or so, I keep them until they rust, which is usually a year or so.

I fill it full of water, and keep it fairly full all the time. Dip the mandrel, clean the excess release off, then twist the bead off, remove the rest of the release. Clean the bead with a diamond burr, all in the bucket.

Once the bucket starts to leak, I gently pour off the water outside in the garden (after all bead release is mostly clay and a few other minor things that plants love), and toss the bucket in the garbage. Nothing hits the drain at all, and nothing to clog up the pipes.

We do a similar thing with our bench water buckets. We use them until they are full of glass, then pour the water off, let the rest of the bucket air dry (set it on top of a kiln for a day or so), then dump the glass into our glass waste bucket which is emptied about every 4 months or so. Refill the bucket and start again.

Like I said, a new, empty paint bucket (they are coated with some kind of sealant) usually lasts about a year or so, although we do get the occasional leakers. But for $4.75, it beats the hell out of using the sink.

[chrisdd]

I've heard talk about some sort of filter you can install. Anyone have info on this?

[Shawn T]

I've heard talk about some sort of filter you can install. Anyone have info on this?

No but if you find the information on it please let us know.

I get mine all off my mandrels like Bill does. so it all goes into the garbage can.
My beads are all cleaned in a plastic container and then thrown in the garden. If for any reason it has to be washed down the drain. First put a coffee filter or two in the drain so some of the bead release is absorbed into the filter and doesn't just run freely down the drain. It helps some, let it settle in the container before you dump it. But it's just as easy to go and dump it outside and wash it out with the hose outside saving your indoor plumbing.
I have a septic tank, and I am anal about what goes down my drains.

[BillBrach]

For some reason, I find it easier to get beads off if they have NOT been soaked ahead of time.

I'm guessing that when the bead release picks up moisture, it swells a little bit, tightening the grip on the bead. Ever notice that freshly coated mandrels get a little smaller in diameter when they dry ?? The reverse is going on when you soak them.

But occasionally, I get a REALLY tight bead, and what I do is microwave a half full coffee cup of water for 2 minutes. It comes out steaming. I then put the bead/mandrel in the cup and let it sit for a hour or more.

I only use my wife's coffee cup too :biggrin:



JUST KIDDING HONEY !!

[MikeAurelius]

Foster Fire softens up quite nicely in water and slips and slides right off when wet.

I've had a couple of beads that I've tried to get off dry and have hit a rough spot on the mandrel and locked up solid - put them in water for 15 minutes and they slid right off.

Robin's formula is a bit different from other bead releases I've tried in this regard - it seems much easier to get out when wet (dry is super easy, but extremely dusty).

I do agree that some releases do tend to swell and stiffen up because of that when wet, but I've not found that the case with FosterFire (either variety).

[Heidi von Frozenfyre]

Kalera, you rock. I've been trying to get this concept into Mr Heidi's head for when we rebuild. Now I can simply print out the grey water piping message and show it to him. It's a wonderful thing to do.

[BillBrach]

Just to clarify things a bit...

1. I am using Foster Fire, and it is EASIER to get the beads loose before I wet it. One of the things I've learned about bead release in general, is that it is almost always easier to get the beads off if you really heat the bead release to RED HEAT before you start the bead. But, don't wait too long after doing this, as the bead release is really fragile after heating. This RED HEAT may account for my beads coming off easier.

2. All bead release contains Kaolin clay. It DOES absorb water and swell. Again, this is probably why the bead gets initially tighter.

3. If you leave the beads to soak for several hours, then YES, the bead release has started to break down and get weaker. BUT, I've had problems where I get a metallic looking coating on the bead near the mandrel hole, that I must then Whink off in a seperate step.

4. After I break the bead loose on the DRY mandrel, I then dunk the bead into water and let soak for about 30 minutes. As this point the bead does slide off, usually with a little twisting.

5. The most important thing I've found about bead releases is NOT the brand, but the consistency of the mix. If it is too thin, then your beads will stick. If it is too thick, you don't get an even coating. Getting that "just right" consistency, and keeping it over the life of a jar of release, is the real challenge !!

[BarbC]

Learned a lot! Thanks! :grin:

[FiredDesires]

It concerns me that folks are loosening release while in the dry state. Does make sense it will twist off easier while dry, because of the swelling, but I'd be using some kind of protection such as one of those little paper masks at least.

[BillBrach]

I have NOT noticed any dust when breaking the bead loose with a dry mandrel.

The release either side of the bead comes off in big chunks, and falls to the newspaper below. The release under the bead, stays under the bead even while twisting the bead loose. Then when the bead is loose, it goes into water.

Do you wear a mask when working with flour or powdered sugar in the kitchen ?? I'll bet not.

My best advice ?? Do what works for you and I'll do what works for me.

[FiredDesires]

Just because you haven't noticed dust, doesn't mean its' not there.

Yes, you do what works well for you and I shall too, but when I see a blip of information that "might" have safety concerns involved and no mention/disclaimer as to its' possiblity of being unsafe, then I want to speak up.

There are probably many lampworkers here that don't have the experience or knowledge that you do..you have to allow for the possiblity that "some" will hang on your every word as gospel and think it would be perfectly alright to do this...maybe it's not, maybe it is.....I don't know for sure, but then again, you don't either.

What would be the harm to wear a little dust mask to be on the safe side? My remarks were'nt meant to chastise anyone, merely giving peeps a head's up...each individual is responsible for their own safety and ultimately will make a choice that fits their needs.

As far as "your advice"....I've read your advice many times in the past and found it important and of value, but today's final quip came off as edgy & being defensive, which it doesn't need to be.

[Shawn T]

It concerns me that folks are loosening release while in the dry state. Does make sense it will twist off easier while dry, because of the swelling, but I'd be using some kind of protection such as one of those little paper masks at least.

I break mine off with a towel over a metal garbage can. I do find that sometimes If I dont have the towel over the bead completely and the release that some release will float into the air. Since my beads slide of easy with Foster Fire I don't have to use anything but the towel to get them off my mandrels.

Thank You For thinking of the dangers of bead release. I will contact Robin of Foster Fire since I am loyal to her product. I love the ease of it and hardly ever have it break when making beads.

[bolimasa]

I have NOT noticed any dust when breaking the bead loose with a dry mandrel.

The release either side of the bead comes off in big chunks, and falls to the newspaper below. The release under the bead, stays under the bead even while twisting the bead loose. Then when the bead is loose, it goes into water.

Do you wear a mask when working with flour or powdered sugar in the kitchen ?? I'll bet not.

My best advice ?? Do what works for you and I'll do what works for me.

I thought that the issue here was that bead release contained silca, which causes silicosis, which is why it would be worse that sniffin' sugar.

I think I read that the kaolin clay that makes up large chunk of most bead release is about 1/2 silica oxide which I think can cause silicosis.

Here's a link to an MSDS for kaolin: ( I couldn't find one for bead release)
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/k0870.htm

and here's an excerpt:

3. Hazards Identification
Emergency Overview
--------------------------
CAUTION! NUISANCE DUST. MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO RESPIRATORY AND G.I. TRACT.

J.T. Baker SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health Rating: 0 - None
Flammability Rating: 0 - None
Reactivity Rating: 0 - None
Contact Rating: 1 - Slight
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT
Storage Color Code: Orange (General Storage)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Inhalation:
Inhalation of dust may cause irritation to the respiratory tract.
Ingestion:
Extremely large oral dosages may produce gastrointestinal disturbances.
Skin Contact:
No adverse effects expected.
Eye Contact:
No adverse effects expected but dust may cause mechanical irritation.
Chronic Exposure:
May produce chronic pulmonary fibrosis and stomach granuloma.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
No information found.

From what I understand bead release is very similar to kiln wash.
I found 1 kiln was MSDS that listed no hazards and one that did:
http://www.amaco.com/pdfs/MSDS-Kiln%20Wash.pdf
http://www.lagunaclay.com/msds/5refract/rf505.pdf

Here's an exerpt from the hazardous kiln wash MSDS:

SECTION VI – HEALTH HAZARD DATACARCINOGENICITYThis product contains crystalline silica; there is evidence of delayed respiratory disease (silicosis) if inhaled over a long period of time. IRAC, NTP, and California Proposition 65 conclude that inhaled crystalline silica causes cancer. This product contains a small amount of Titanium Dioxide as a natural part of the clay’s composition. This has been listed by NIOSH as a potential carcinogen.

I prefer not to expose myself to these agents.... keeping your kiln wash wet when removing mandrels and cleaning holes is a pretty simple thing to do and really cuts down on the inhalation danger.

[neagle]

What I do is put the beads on the mandrels in a big, tall cup of water (think Big Gulp size), and then after soaking a bit, I scrub the bead release first off the mandrels with one of those blue scrubby pads, letting the bead release fall into the bottom of the cup. After all the beads are removed and the mandrels are scrubbed, I pour the contents of the cup into the driveway. I had heard that bead release clogged pipes and didn't want to pay the plumber!

[C-Ann]

I've heard talk about some sort of filter you can install. Anyone have info on this?

Hi Chris - Happy New Year!

The dental supply companies sell a "plaster trap" that attaches to your sink's drain system - it does collect the heavy materials - they sink in the bucket and the water continues thru the plumbing - eventually you replace the trap when the material build up in the bucket - basically it is a bucket in the drain system of the sink.

If anyone wants some info just pm me.

My husband is a denture maker of almost 30 years(a trade that is being outsourced to China in a big way....if you wear one be sure to ask your dentist where he/she gets their dental appliances made....) and I work with glass - we put nothing down our drain.

It is just as easy and cheaper to use a dishpan to clean your beads and toss the water out in the woods (yard:))