View Full Interactive Version Of This Page : Wishing stone (worry stone) tutorial, please!!
I love those beads but I cannot figure out how they are made. I guess they are offmandrel, since the hole is very irregular, but how do you get the hole in there? So please, help me out:poke:
Over the Moon
2006-10-16, 9:26am
They are made off-mandrel, and the hole is made using a tungsten rod. Do a search for "off-mandrel" techniques, and you will discover a wealth of information.
I'll try to snap some photos of one being made tonight. I call them "artifacts" since mine use mostly natural earth tones, but they are made in the same way.
Maryse
2006-10-16, 10:17am
Hi Val!
Wow! Your beads and other glass art is very beautiful. First, I wondered a little bit about you saying that it was a technique "identifiably your own", because I did not have your beads in mind when I asked this question. I don't think that I have seen your wishing or worry stones before; but they are really beautiful!The one I had in mind was one bead with lots of silver mesh and etched from Andrea Guarrino I think.
Over the Moon
2006-10-16, 11:09am
No problem Maryse! I assumed you were talking about mine because you asked about "Wishing Stones". I have seen others made with a similar technique, but they do not have this name...:smile:
I created this name for mine, and concept of wishing, in honor of my beautiful Mum who has been valiantly battling cancer for the last several months.
designsbykurato
2006-10-16, 12:03pm
The name wishing stone has been around for a long time. I have a jade one with a Chinese symbol carved into it.
Kathie
Can't wait, Cosmo....your tute's are the best!
I'll try to snap some photos of one being made tonight. I call them "artifacts" since mine use mostly natural earth tones, but they are made in the same way.
Actually, you're going to have to wait for that. Or take a class with me.
The person starting this thread was talking about something else, I believe. Also, I have talked with someone else who asked that I not post how to do it because it's a technique they have become known for and they believe it would be taking money from them to post the tutorial. Since I never want to be the cause of anyone losing money, I'm going to oblige them.
But, if anyone who wants to take a class with me, it's one of the things I demonstrate in my pendant classes.
@Val!
So sorry to hear about your mom! Did she win the battle?
@Chad!
Your pendants are soo beautiful just as Val's stones, but both of you work in boro; so you are right that is not what I wanted to know. My primary question was to know how to get those "not round" holes into the glass. I have been enlightened in the meantime, thanks a lot! It was only a matter of ](*,)
@Val!
So sorry to hear about your mom! Did she win the battle?
@Chad!
Your pendants are soo beautiful just as Val's stones, but both of you work in boro; so you are right that is not what I wanted to know. My primary question was to know how to get those "not round" holes into the glass. I have been enlightened in the meantime, thanks a lot! It was only a matter of ](*,)
Do you have a picture of the bead you are talking about? I'm not too familair with her work.
MaryBeth
2006-10-16, 4:21pm
I just received a couple of back issues of The Flow and Volume 3 Issue 1 has a tutorial for a Tungsten Pierced Pendant done in boro by Leigh and James Keenan.
So if this is the boro tech that is being discussed here a tutorial has already been written on it.
I learned how to make pendants from off-mandrel work in Pati Walton's class by piercing a hole through them using a tungsten pick. This was using soft glass.
So I'm assuming there must be some other "secret" techniques out there?
Mr. Smiley
2006-10-16, 6:00pm
Mary Beth... it's the same technique... it's in The Flow issue you're thinking about.
This tungsten drilling technique can be used for soft glass as well. I'm not going to speak for Andrea, but I have a feeling it's how she makes her holes. It's great fun to do either glass off mandrel and drill it with hot tungsten. ;) :love:
I will add this to the discussion...
If anyone wants to try the technique in question, try it with clear or something that goes clear when it gets hot (like Elvis, or one of the Amber Purple colors). It's much easier to get the hang of it.
I'm surprised that people are thinking of this as "their own" as well... many many people have been poking holes in their glass with a hot tungsten pick for a long, long time! I've seen several demos over the years, though I didn't try it until Andrea demod it at Frantz this summer.
It's in Jim Kervin's book, too.
ALL I have to say is get the PICK hot, not the glass! The glass should be solid but well-heated.
All else being equal, I would tell anyone wanting to know how to bore holes in glass with a tungsten pick to go ahead and get Jim Kervin's book. That technique was in it in 1995 and it's still in it now (page 55), with a LOT of other information that makes the book more than worth the purchase price.
OMG!!! If I could have foreseen what discussions got started bythis simple question I asked; I would never have done it.
My intention was never to go and make the same beads than somebody else and go and sell them off at ebay, and I also don't have any chinese relations or ancestors:grin: Why do we always have to think right away in "money making" terms? Isn't this a forum where glass people can interact to share and discuss techniques instead of hiding their knowledge from the others?
I was simply struggling with this technique, because I never got the holes long and slender as I would have wanted them to be. I did not post the picture of Andrea Guarrino's bead in this thread; because I do not want to copy that specific bead or make people think I would like to copy that bead; I was just interested in this special technique. If I had the opportunity to take a class with Andrea, I surely would. Unfortunately I cannot afford to travel to the US to go and take a class with her; when I want to take a class I have to drive to Hamburg in Germany, about 900km away and I can only travel during school vacations, because I earn my money to buy my glass as a teacher.
I am sincerely sorry that this simple question caused such a stir; but because there have been many requests for tutorials before and many asking for very specific beads, I did not think this particular one would be a bad thing to do.
Concerning the name "wishing stone" or "worry stone"; I found it in the dictionary. English is not my native tongue and I sometimes have difficulties finding the right words.In luxembourgish, it is called a "pocket stone" and I found a german translation calling it "Hand snuggler" and from there on I got the english terms "wishing or worry stone".
Greetings!
HardwoodTrailGlass
2006-10-18, 2:48am
I like "hand snuggler"! :biggrin:
Thanks for posting Maryse.
Mr. Smiley
2006-10-18, 3:01am
Well, if you've gotten this far and have no idea why we are discussing this... Val edited her post and now the rest of us look like we're discussing nothing. I so wish people couldn't edit their posts and run away. It makes the rest of this discussion look silly. Oh well. I hope you get your tutorial. If not, I'll help when I get back. ;)
Maryse,
NEVER feel bad for asking a question in this "family"! This is the most generous group of people you will ever encounter in the glass community.
That being said, it was not your post that prompted all the discussion, it was the unedited reply that you received!
OMG!!! If I could have foreseen what discussions got started bythis simple question I asked; I would never have done it.
My intention was never to go and make the same beads than somebody else and go and sell them off at ebay, and I also don't have any chinese relations or ancestors:grin: Why do we always have to think right away in "money making" terms? Isn't this a forum where glass people can interact to share and discuss techniques instead of hiding their knowledge from the others?
I was simply struggling with this technique, because I never got the holes long and slender as I would have wanted them to be. I did not post the picture of Andrea Guarrino's bead in this thread; because I do not want to copy that specific bead or make people think I would like to copy that bead; I was just interested in this special technique. If I had the opportunity to take a class with Andrea, I surely would. Unfortunately I cannot afford to travel to the US to go and take a class with her; when I want to take a class I have to drive to Hamburg in Germany, about 900km away and I can only travel during school vacations, because I earn my money to buy my glass as a teacher.
I am sincerely sorry that this simple question caused such a stir; but because there have been many requests for tutorials before and many asking for very specific beads, I did not think this particular one would be a bad thing to do.
Concerning the name "wishing stone" or "worry stone"; I found it in the dictionary. English is not my native tongue and I sometimes have difficulties finding the right words.In luxembourgish, it is called a "pocket stone" and I found a german translation calling it "Hand snuggler" and from there on I got the english terms "wishing or worry stone".
Greetings!
All else being equal, I would tell anyone wanting to know how to bore holes in glass with a tungsten pick to go ahead and get Jim Kervin's book. That technique was in it in 1995 and it's still in it now (page 55), with a LOT of other information that makes the book more than worth the purchase price.Thanks Kalera! I'd forgotten I had that book -- and the 3 sentence explanation is just what I need. (In the 1999 version, it's on page 44.)
I've been wanting to do the off-mandrel big hole thing for a while, but haven't gotten around to checking into it.
Steph'sBeadCorner
2006-10-18, 11:21am
I googled Wishing Stone... and by definition - it's a stone with a hole in it.
I believe the OP was looking for the technique to put the hole in the bead.. so she did ask correctly.
I'm not sure how this term can be claimed by anyone since it's already used in folklore.
http://predictions.astrology.com/wd/wishingstone.html
Frogsongstudio
2006-10-18, 2:34pm
I think I'll go make some wishing stones now. Oh wait, I don't have a tungsten pick! Dangit!
Oh wait, I don't have a tungsten pick! Dangit!
I do!!! I just got my tools today from Dave, and made stones with holes all day with my new pick. Then I came here and saw this discussion LOL
My instructions came from Jim Kervin's book which I have had for ages, and Kalera, thanks for the tip about hot pick and solid glass, wish I read that before I started making these today. Oh well, there is always tomorrow.
Seriously, if you want some nice tungsten tools give Dave a holler.
Edie
Frogsongstudio
2006-10-18, 4:08pm
Who's Dave?...LOL
Is there a website?
wolfotter
2006-10-18, 5:17pm
For anyone that wants to know........... all I do with my off mandrel beads is heat up the tungsten poker till it is glowing red, have the bead warm, not too hot........ keep the bead below the flame and keep the tungsten in the flame glowing and then I just push and twist the poker through the bead!
hope that this helps!
Andrea
Melodie
2006-10-18, 5:40pm
Okay, maybe I’m just having a gray moment here but … if the problem is simply the name and not the technique then why the objections to the tutorial? The technique is an old one so how is that taking money from the person calling hers wishing stones? If that is the concern then obviously it is the technique that is being objected to although I don’t see how since off mandrel beads of this sort have been around a whole lot longer then 6 months. I really don't see where a tutorial on a basic technique can honestly be objected to.
Wasn’t this method in Bandhu Dunham’s first set of glass books also? Mine are packed away but I thought I saw it in there quite a few years ago. I might be thinking of Kervin’s book though since I do have the 1995 issue. No offense, but the ones on Ebay appear to be nothing more then boro swirled into a disk and a hole poked through, nothing to distinguish them as belonging to a specific person other then perhaps the name. I have rarely seen anyone elevate this technique to the level of being a recognizable style other then Andrea. I haven’t seen Chad’s though. ;) Most of the ones I have seen over the years I think were actually called worry stones though while others never even included stones in the name. The OP did specify wishing or worry stones so I doubt she was targeting any one specific.
I don’t even want to get started on the undeserved vicious attack of Brent since he asked that it be dropped, totally uncalled for. Tsk …tsk.
Now, where is the smiley that is kicking himself in the butt? I really need him for even getting involved in a post such as this.
For anyone that wants to know........... all I do with my off mandrel beads is heat up the tungsten poker till it is glowing red, have the bead warm, not too hot........ keep the bead below the flame and keep the tungsten in the flame glowing and then I just push and twist the poker through the bead!
hope that this helps!
Andrea
This would have been very helpful if I had a tungsten poker. You should have seen what my poor pig had to go through to get that hole in his head, lol! :badgrin:
Thank You Andrea!
Kalera you crack me up!!
Val I think it's really poor form to ask Chad not to post that Tutorial.
Paula
Over the Moon
2006-10-18, 6:19pm
Isn't there a song about being misunderstood??! Ah well...
Tutorial( the point was the name, not the technique...)
Make desired design at end of 6-14mm rod. Squish. As Andrea said - heat tungsten until glowing - push through glass to make hole - (make sure it is warm enough to receive it. but a little stiff too). Attach cold seal to one end, and melt off "blob" from other of rod. Decorate and embelliish 'til your heart is content. Flame polish and anneal - oh, and have fun!
Hope we can now all get back on track with our own glass dreams and visions.
:love: Val
The End.
For anyone that wants to know........... all I do with my off mandrel beads is heat up the tungsten poker till it is glowing red, have the bead warm, not too hot........ keep the bead below the flame and keep the tungsten in the flame glowing and then I just push and twist the poker through the bead!
hope that this helps!
Andrea
You one classy dame, Andrea. Always.
As a total aside, I have always heard smooth un-holed flattish stones that fit in your palm called "worry stones" and the ones with holes in them called "wishing stones" or "spirit stones". I have some ordinary beads I call "worrystones" but they don't have a big hole.
I would take a class from Mr.Smiley in a second if I could.
I'm betting there won't be many lampworkers wanting to teach a certain someone after this though.
And she said some of us were showing our "true colors"?
Boy oh boy!
And now back to the topic at hand, I say the tutorial should be shown.
If Chad doesn't do it, I will. I'm no gentleman!
Errr, Just as soon as I figure out how to do it...LOL Yes, I will do a "worry stone" tutorial. Then we won't have to "worry" about the name issue.
Well, I can't do it anyways. I don't have a torch right now. Well, I have a Tiger Shark, but you couldn't pay me to use it...
klrglass
2006-10-18, 8:08pm
At Glasstock someone (sorry not to remember who) showed everyone a technique that was taught in Italy. Off mandrel - decorate and flatten glass - - punty up - place on a piece of flat wood - jab a hole in it with whatever you want randomly - remove punty - fire polish - add to jewelry as desired.
jawjee
2006-10-19, 12:10am
Excuse my ignorance, but i thought i heard somewhere that you shouldn't heat a tungsten pick directly in the flame or it would ruin it? or, is it that tungsten is the exception?
andreajane
2006-10-19, 1:45am
People use tungsten because it can stand up to high temperatures without melting or sticking to the glass.
However, it will fume the glass if you're not careful.
Andrea
Mr. Smiley
2006-10-19, 1:45am
Jawjee... you can get a build up of yellowish fuming on it, But that just means you got it too hot. The yellow stuff can be sanded off for a good as new pick. Tungsten is one of the tools that will actually hold up to being in the flame. Tungsten is a great conductor of heat and will carry the heat along the shaft and transfer it into the glass, you are pushing the newly melted glass out of its way as you turn and push. This is why it works better to have the glass as warm as possible without it being soft. Less heat has to be transfered into it to get it to move out of the picks way. ;)
I hear the fume from tungsten is really bad for you, so please use ventilation with this tech. People should always have good ventilation, but especially if your heating metals directly in the fire. :love: Be safe! :love:
LavenderCreek
2006-10-19, 1:46am
Doh! nevermind, Andrea and Mr. S answered while I was typing... :D
andreajane
2006-10-19, 1:47am
LOL! Three simultaneous posts from us nightowls :)
Andrea
Mr. Smiley
2006-10-19, 1:47am
Also wanted to add that if it does fume the glass, it burns off really easy. You don't need the tungsten so hot it fumes... you really just want it to glow orange/red. You'll need it hotter for boro than soft glass. It takes some practice to get it right... but what in life doesn't? :lol:
Mr. Smiley
2006-10-19, 1:49am
LOL! Three simultaneous posts from us nightowls :)
Andrea
Yeah, but you were quickest. Mine locked up when I went to post and just came back.
I'm going to Chicago... I'm so excited. I have to carry on about 15 pounds of glass. My luggage is never under the limit when I get it packed that way I want. Then I start sifting through trying to figure out what I don't need. Clothes are always the first to go... all the glass and tools stay. :lol: Man, I'm a glass ho too!
andreajane
2006-10-19, 1:52am
I would SO be at your class if I could! But I'm doing a show in Iowa this weekend. I can get two dozen weekends in a row it seems like with no particular plans, and then two things I really want to do come along on the same date.
Nothing wrong with being a glass ho. Not even shoes are more important than glass. That's my story, sticking with it :)
Andrea
LavenderCreek
2006-10-19, 1:55am
Nothing wrong with being a glass ho. Not even shoes are more important than glass. That's my story, sticking with it :)
Andrea
This is true, and in fact I am often barefoot :D
andreajane
2006-10-19, 1:58am
This is true, and in fact I am often barefoot :D
ROFL! The Barefoot Glass Hos. Sounds like a band name. Well, sort of :)
Andrea
swamper
2006-10-19, 4:26am
I think that Val felt a little invaded and said so. I don't know if it was justified nor do I care.
I also think that on retrospect she has mellowed and said so - so let's quit picking on Val.
At least she has stuck around and not tucked tail and run. That says a lot to me about someone.
I think I'm gonna try to make some of them there thingies with holes in them but I don't have tung pick so this is how I would make them.
Hot blob on end of rod
Decorate
Melt in
Smash Flat
Melt end
Snip in middle of end to form a cleft foot (2 toes)
Smooth each one with heat keeping them apart
Smash
Melt and bring two toes together a the end
Maintain hole in thingie
Thansfer to punty or holder
Melt rod off
Melt smooth
Firelilly
2006-10-19, 6:20am
You know what this thread needs?
More cowbell?
45433
Would one be able to poke a hole into the melty goodness of hot glass with a graphite rod?
45435 Would these hold up or snap and be a disaster? Just curious.
Lil
More cowbell?
45433
Would one be able to poke a hole into the melty goodness of hot glass with a graphite rod?
45435 Would these hold up or snap and be a disaster? Just curious.
Lil
No. Graphite would be good to shape a hole, but you can't make a hole with it. You need tungsten.
Firelilly
2006-10-19, 6:30am
No. Graphite would be good to shape a hole, but you can't make a hole with it. You need tungsten.
Good to know, Chad. Thanks!
Lil
CalamitysClan
2006-10-19, 10:46am
For anyone that wants to know........... all I do with my off mandrel beads is heat up the tungsten poker till it is glowing red, have the bead warm, not too hot........ keep the bead below the flame and keep the tungsten in the flame glowing and then I just push and twist the poker through the bead!
hope that this helps!
Andrea
You are too cool! I am taking a class from you in a couple of weeks. I am soooo excited!
Oops, edited to say, if you come anywhere near Texas Brent I'll be the first to sign up for your class!
Uumm, no, she took it to PM's where no one else can see it.
She was so mad at me she couldn't even type straight. It took me a while to decipher it all but that's where I learned that Tungsten can put off toxic fumes. I think the gist of it was that she didn't give a crap if I got a tungsten pick and hoped I keeled over from the fumes.
Among other things.
She's not very nice.
Well, regardless of other facts, tungsten does give off toxic fumes when it gets too hot. You'll see it. Kind of a yellowish smoke coming off of it. If that happens, just take it out of the flame for a second.
Laurie L
2006-10-19, 11:33am
So the respirator you should use for fuming would be sufficient for the tungsten fumes or is the vent hood enough ???
Frogsongstudio
2006-10-19, 11:52am
Thank you Chad. I'll be sure to be careful.
I do have a respirator. I guess it wouldn't hurt to be on the safe side and use it if it's needed.
BTW wasn't this all demoed by Patty Frantz at the Gathering in summer '05? I think she was doing a mish mash of dichro and then poked it with tungsten. Or maybe it is on her video? Jeri
andreajane
2006-10-19, 3:53pm
I've seen a lot of instructors and demonstrators use a tungsten pick to make holes. But at the time I didn't realize I was "learning" something, I just thought I was watching an artist use a tool. To me it's like a marvering pad or tweezers -- you're just picking the tool you need for the job you want to do.
Andrea
Terryelemcee
2006-10-19, 4:23pm
I think it must be the 'time of the year" or something.
I belong to a few beading and lampwork groups, and I really love how generous of spirit everybody is......usually! but for some unknown reason there have been little outbursts of 'ugliness' on more than a couple of forums in the last couple of weeks. I hope the change of season hurries up so we can all get back to normal.
regards to all from across the pond....
Terry:rolleyes:
HardwoodTrailGlass
2006-10-19, 4:45pm
It's not like it's an ancient chinese secret or anything. ;)
Hey, does anyone remember that old Calgon commercial? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojm1Xzwlc9Q) lol
I do now! :lol:
donna322
2006-10-19, 4:54pm
I do now! :lol:
ME TOO ME TOO!!!!!:shock:
rusticstudio
2006-10-19, 4:54pm
Tungsten is a great conductor of heat and will carry the heat along the shaft and transfer it into the glass...
He said "shaft"!! He he he he he! :fnwl:
HannahRachel
2006-10-19, 5:39pm
He said "shaft"!! He he he he he! :fnwl:
Oh no, Patty, you DIDN'T just go there!
Who is Dave (he sells the picks) and where can he be found? K-
You can buy a tungsten pick from pretty much any full-line glass supplier. They come with a lot of starter kits, too. Lots of people already have one and may not even know it... most of them are about 6" of metal with a wood handle. If you have a pick like that and you're not sure what it's made out of, check with the supplier you got it from.
Like this:
http://snipurl.com/zu0j
You can also get them at welding supply houses but you have to grind your own points in them and then stick them into a handle.
Paula
Just a note on buying tungsten from a welding supply house. Make sure to get the "pure tungsten" and not a thoriated variety. Thoriated has additives which are not good for the human body when you grind it and inhale the dust.
Pure tungsten electrodes are color coded by a green paint on the end, these are the kind you want.
CorriDawn
2006-10-19, 10:08pm
Ugly posts have been deleted in order to bring the thread back to the original question.
You can also get them at welding supply houses but you have to grind your own points in them and then stick them into a handle.
Paula
Or you can sharpen them with Chemsharp. I love the stuff. Makes me feel like a Mad Scientist... Bwahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
swamper
2006-10-20, 4:26am
Thank you, Corri, for returning this to a technical thread - off to look for chemsharp.
FourTailsLampwork
2006-10-20, 6:25am
Thank you, Corri. Honest debate is once thing, but from a newbie's perspective this got ugly very fast.
sleekbeads
2006-10-20, 9:23am
For anyone that wants to know........... all I do with my off mandrel beads is heat up the tungsten poker till it is glowing red, have the bead warm, not too hot........ keep the bead below the flame and keep the tungsten in the flame glowing and then I just push and twist the poker through the bead!
hope that this helps!
Andrea
Finally, a voice of reason and sharing.
No wonder everyone loves you ;)
Joanna
hummingbird3172
2006-10-20, 1:23pm
Ugly posts have been deleted in order to bring the thread back to the original question.
Yay! :smile:
I had always wondered how to do this (so that it looks good...lol).
*snork* "Who IS it?" Good one, man..... Heheheheheh
Frogsongstudio
2006-10-20, 1:55pm
Dave's not here.
Sorry, just a little levity for the old folks.
Hahaha, that's exactly why I laughed when I asked Who's Dave.
Aaahhhh, good old Cheech & Chong.
Or you can sharpen them with Chemsharp. I love the stuff. Makes me feel like a Mad Scientist... Bwahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Chemsharp? 'splain please!;-)
Chem-sharp is a powder. Heat your tungsten rod until it's cherry red, then dip 1/4" of it into the powder repeatedly until you have the kind of point you want.
Chem-sharp is a powder. Heat your tungsten rod until it's cherry red, then dip 1/4" of it into the powder repeatedly until you have the kind of point you want.
Isn't it pretty toxic, though? I had always heard it was.
It looks a lot more toxic than it is. LOL! The process is SO COOL! Anyway, for anyone who is interested, here's the MSDS on Chem-Sharp. Normal ventilation, water cleanup... Use good judgement, of course, but it's not that bad.
http://www.dynaflux.com/msds/600b.xls.pdf
Mr Smiley and others, thanks for the elucidating and comprehensive response re. tungsten, I'll stop being so precious with it now.
Hahaha, that's exactly why I laughed when I asked Who's Dave.
Aaahhhh, good old Cheech & Chong.
Oh I am here, just do not feel it is the room to hawk my wares,
:wave:
Dave
Ironmountain01
2006-10-30, 9:52am
Dave's not here.
Sorry, just a little levity for the old folks.
Snort, gasp, choke.... howl....
Hey man.. it's me!! Dave!!! Open the door!!!
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