1st time user. too small flame with oxycon,is it normal?

[Tutti-frutti]

Hi
I've had a chance to go try out a Minor with an Airsep oxyconcentrator. The flame was very cold and I could put my fingers close to the flame without feeling any pain.
Making a bead took twice as long as my set up with tanked 02. got to admit that making stringer worked to my advantage.

My ? is to see if everyone that has 1 concentrator like this has the same cool flame. I guess it was not possible to turn oxycon up higher.

This is my thinking if I had an Oxy Generator would I have more power ??
I'm tired of paying 80.00$ for tanked 02. I use a national torch.

Katja

[kbinkster]

Which National torch do you use? I'm guessing the 8M, since that is the more common model in their lione-up (with the SM-7 tip) for soft glass work.

The 8M likes to have about 10 psi oxygen. It also uses a lot of oxygen (volume) - the SM-7 tip uses four times the amount of oxygen as a Minor Burner.

So, you would get better performance with your 8M with a larger concentrator or multiple small ones.

A Minor Burner on a single 5 LPM oxygen concentrator that is working properly should be putting out a pretty decent flame. It won't as big as it would be if it were on tanked oxygen, but it will still be hot enough to do soft glass. Did the flame look lighter blue than the one on your set-up?

Maybe someone using a 5 LPM machine and an 8M will chime in. I believe Bill Brachhold runs an 8M on a single 5 LPM machine. He is usually over on Dale's forum, Art Glass Answers.


ETA : You can go to www.artglassanswers.com to ask Bill directly. :)

[Dale M.]

I have used a National 8M with SM7 tip on a 5 LPM concentrator and with 1/3psi (BBQ regulator) propane and it is quite effective, it had nice flame characteristics and is hotter than a minor with same fuel/oxygen sources. BUT it will function better with more oxygen and fuel! No getting around it, but its a starting point. IF you get one 5 LPM concentrator now it is workable, you can get second concentrator later and add it on if you can not afford a 10 LPM concentrator right off....

Bottom line is as Kbinkster says, 8M (with small tips) will function quite well on concentrators...

Dale

[whispering beads]

I use 1 used devilbliss oxycon...with my betta...and it is super hot...I even melt boro glass on it...seems like the oxycon you are using isnt set correctly...you need to remove the hose and turn the oxycon on then adjust the knob to bring it up as high as it can go...hopefully that will help if not..there is something wrong with it...
Denise

[kbinkster]

I use 1 used devilbliss oxycon...with my betta...and it is super hot...I even melt boro glass on it...seems like the oxycon you are using isnt set correctly...you need to remove the hose and turn the oxycon on then adjust the knob to bring it up as high as it can go...hopefully that will help if not..there is something wrong with it...
Denise

Please do not bring it as high as it can go! Only bring it up to the 5 LPM mark. The machine can put out more than 5 LPM, but running it that high (over 5 LPM) will shorten the life of the concentrator.

[Tutti-frutti]

Thanks very much for explaining it all.
Yes it's a national 8M , but it was not my oxyconcentrator.
Still 1 question left, is a Generator more powerful than a concentrator. I have been trying to figure that out now for a while. duh... Somehow the 10LPM have always stayed with me though. Meaning as long as any mashine can put out 10 LPM I should be good to go??

Thanks again
Katja

[kbinkster]

Thanks very much for explaining it all.
Yes it's a national 8M , but it was not my oxyconcentrator.
Still 1 question left, is a Generator more powerful than a concentrator. I have been trying to figure that out now for a while. duh... Somehow the 10LPM have always stayed with me though. Meaning as long as any mashine can put out 10 LPM I should be good to go??

Thanks again
Katja

Here is my explanation of the difference between a concentrator and a generator:
Concentrators and generators are basically the same thing. They work on the same principals. Concentrators are usually self-contained in a cabinet and generators are not - they require an outside air compressor to run them (like the On-Site Pro Series that I sell). Because of this, they are much noisier (bigger external compressor = more noise). There are some concentrators out there that are called generators by their manufacturer, probably to make the distinction that they industrial in nature and are not intended for medical use like most concentrators are.

I have an Integra10 and a Regalia. They are very quiet machines. While the Regalia is an industrial unit, not a medical one, it still has the same insulation in the cabinet as the medical units do to keep the noise level in the studio down. I will soon be doing some testing on the Phantom to see what running one unit on the inner fire and one unit on the outer fire will be like.

The output of 10 LPM is great, but it is not sufficient to get the maximum flame out of all torches. It is more than enough to completely supply torches like the Minor, Bobcat, Mini CC, etc. with enough oxygen to run at their full capacity. But, on the 8M with the SM-7 tip, you would need around 28 LPM to get the maximum flame that torch is capable of getting with that tip.

But here's the question you need to ask yourself, "Do I need the full capacity of the torch to do the work that I want to do?" For many people, that answer is, "no." You may find that the work you do only requires at most the mid range of that torch's capabilities and that it functions quite well on 5 LPM (this is particularly true with soft glass bead work). In fact, many people will run two small torches or one large torch on a single 10 LPM concentrator because they do not need to get the full range from their torches for the work that they do.

[Tutti-frutti]

Wow, thanks for all that and more. When it get;s time for me to decide I will also look into another torch maybe.
Why did I ever get such a oxy guzzler...lol
Thanks again
Katja

[Bunyip]

My minor burner puts out a monster flame, easily hot enough to melt through my mandrels while making boro beads, and that's on ONE 5LPM Invacare 5 concentrator. I added the second oxycon and now I am hot to trot! Either that minor burner you were using was adjusted wrong, or the oxycon was a piece of crap.