Cost of Kiln Electricity

[daisydog7]

I just got last month's electric bill and yikes! It was $363. It is much higher than normal and I have just started using my Skutt GM10F alot. Does anyone know what it costs to run a kiln per hour? Does the Skutt GM10F use alot more electricity than other kilns? Thanks for any info. Pam

[Dennis Brady]

I just got last month's electric bill and yikes! It was $363. It is much higher than normal and I have just started using my Skutt GM10F alot. Does anyone know what it costs to run a kiln per hour? Does the Skutt GM10F use alot more electricity than other kilns? Thanks for any info. Pam

I seriously doubt your kiln is responsible for that. Calculating kiln operating cost is simple. Multiple the voltage times the amperage to calculate the wattage - then multiply the wattage times the price per kilowatt hour you're charged (it should show on your power bill).

The Skutt GM10F is 110v 15amp so it's 1800 watts. I don't know what you pay for electricity, but my cost is $.068/kwhr. That would make the calculation for cost:

1.8 kilowatt x .068 = $ .1224/hr.

That's what it costs to run your kiln full on at top heat. In most uses, your kiln isn't on full time but switches off and on, so is rarely going to cost more then 6 or 7 cents per hour. Unless you're electricity costs are the highest on earth, running that kiln even 12 hours each day costa less than $1 each day.

I'd look for some other reason your electricity bill is so high.

[meadowesky]

does that bill include your gas? It has been colder this last month so check your bill and see how much of that comes from electric and how much for gas.

[daisydog7]

Here in Texas I was charged .13 per kWh. Sure wish we got it at your .068kwh. Just think, my electric bill would be around $180! Thanks for the info.
This is an all electric home, no gas. Sure wish it did have gas heat and appliances.

[Hayley]

Therein lies the high electric bill - I think! I had a tiny apartment when lived in Boston right after school and it only had electric, no gas. I did NOT have heat on the first winter I was there - too poor to pay $300+ utility bill (and that was in the late 80s). I wore my house slippers to bed, it was that cold.

Glad to live in San Francisco now with gas furnace, etc.!

[SuzyQ]

Electric heat is outrageous! I had it in one apartment in Vermont. I use to turn off my water heater when I got out of the shower and then turn it on at bedtime so I wouldn't pay to keep it hot all day long.

[Dennis Brady]

It cost a lot to keep the water in the hot water heater constantly heated. Even in Canada where the cost of electricity is much lower then in the U.S. (and it appears to be half that of Texas) the European style "on demand" heaters are becoming increasingly popular. They're half the size of convential heaters and don't turn on until you turn the water on - and will provide a constant supply of hot water for as long as you're running the water. Although they cost about 50% more then conventional heaters, they have 3 significant advantages.

1. Save electricity by heating water only when needed.
2. Provide unlimited amounts of hot water when needed.
3. Small enough to sit on a shelf and not use up floor space.

I feel almost unpatriotic suggesting these to the Americans. Export sales for electricity and oil are huge revenue for Canada. The more energy wasteful Americans are, the more money pours into Canada.

[daisydog7]

I am going to look into one of those on demand water heaters. This month's electric bill of $361 is outrageous. I looked at last year's bill of the same time period and it was $188. It must have been warmer last year during this time and of course the kiln probably added a little. I live on an island and we don't have natural gas. Some people have large propane tanks to heat with. I'll look into that as well.

[Dennis Brady]

I am going to look into one of those on demand water heaters. This month's electric bill of $361 is outrageous. I looked at last year's bill of the same time period and it was $188. It must have been warmer last year during this time and of course the kiln probably added a little. I live on an island and we don't have natural gas. Some people have large propane tanks to heat with. I'll look into that as well.

If you install a large propane tank, you can tap into it for your torch. You may also find that a propane fired heater cost much less then electric.

[NLC Beads]

For any outrageous utility bill, check to see if they estimated it or did an actual read.... They have a tendancy to estimate what they think you should have used, usually in their favor.

[MikeAurelius]

This same question came up a week or so ago: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47808

[Dennis Brady]

This same question came up a week or so ago: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47808

...and there's a strong probability it'll come up again in a week or so.

So?

[daisydog7]

I think I may have found the problem. I went out and read the meter, and then checked usage since the meter was read, 11 days ago. Then I divided usage into per day, and multiplied times 30 days, and then times the going rate of .131, and got a monthly bill of $222, which is nowhere near last month's $361. Since we just turned the hot tub on a week ago, usage should be up, not down. So, I think there must have been an estimate a couple of months ago, and we're just now getting caught up. Does this make sense?

[NLC Beads]

Yes, it makes total sense... Watch your gas bill, too - anything that can be estimated, can be estimated wrong... Unfortunately! :(
With our gas bill, at least - never had an electric problem - you can enter a meter reading online or over the phone. You may want to check that option also. I think legally they only need to read it once or twice a year, they're rolling dice for numbers other than that!
I'm glad you found an answer...

[Dennis Brady]

I'm glad you found an answer...

....and I'm sure your kiln is pleased to know that it does have a secure home and is no longer at risk of being put up for adoption.

[MikeAurelius]

...and there's a strong probability it'll come up again in a week or so.

So?

Because its a much more accurate answer than the one you gave. :-({|=

[Dennis Brady]

Because its a much more accurate answer than the one you gave. :-({|=

There's nothing inaccurate about my answer.

[Cosmo]

I haven't used the kiln in question, but I have an AIM 99 LSD at my shop at my house. I run it several hours a day most days. We have gas heat, so our electric bill doesn't vary much from bill to bill in the winter. Since we got the kiln, our bill has gone up an average of $5 per bill.

[Bluebottle]

Do your power guys do the same as here in the UK?????? if your usage rises a little they "estimate" the charge up to cover themselves irrespective of what the actual consumption is or wether the meter has been read or not, it makes sharp practice look tame:doubt:

Mike

[Cosmo]

In my area, you have the option of having them estimate your charges for the year and you pay the same each month, or you can pay the actual usage rates. You almost always end up paying less in the long run paying the actual charges. When they estimate, they always estimate high. When they estimate, they don't tell you the actual usage so you don't know usually.

[daisydog7]

My kiln was never in danger of being adopted out. I'd sooner shut off the heat and walk around in four coats than be without my kiln! (And with an electric bill of $361 that was a possibility).

[Rapunsel]

Daisydog, I'm here in Texas as well.....(North Texas - DFW) and my bill this month was a screamer!!..........Yes, I think they did do an estimate lately and we are catching up, as you put it, made sense to me.......I'm total electric as well..........it's just that time of year, the electric bill probably was for the time period where it was still pretty chilly out........

[Paul Ewing]

I'm in the North Texas area as well and the electric prices are going through the roof. I think I am paying 0.14/kwh here. It was like 0.08/kwh last year. Luckily the house has gas heat and a gas waterheater, but I am worried what my summer AC bills are going to be. It pretty much convinced me that when I move out to the country in a couple years, I am going to build my house and shop with an aim of having it as close to 100% solar powered as possible. I might have to add capacity over a few years, but if the tax code stays the same, you get a tax credit each year that you add solar. I figure with eight acres and a 30x40 shop for glass and jewelry I should have plenty of room for the setup. Add a well for water, and I hope to be as independant of utilities as I can get.

[bousky]

My husband now keeps a log of our electricity meter reading. We are always being overcharged by misreadings. Our bill is normally around $100 we have been charged 3 times that many times. It isn't always that dramatic, but it happens often.

Dennis....that water heater popularity is starting to grow! I am kind of looking forward to the next time our water heater needs to be replaced. We will be getting the on demand type.

[Dennis Brady]

My husband now keeps a log of our electricity meter reading. We are always being overcharged by misreadings. Our bill is normally around $100 we have been charged 3 times that many times. It isn't always that dramatic, but it happens often.

Dennis....that water heater popularity is starting to grow! I am kind of looking forward to the next time our water heater needs to be replaced. We will be getting the on demand type.


Another thing that's growing in popularity is Americans coming up to buy Canadian toilets. It seems a few of our southern neighbours are dissatisfied with the low flush toilets they're required to install, so come up here and buy replacements. The fella at the plumbing supply shop where we buy copper pipe (it's used for the masts on our stained glass model ships) told me he gets a steady flow of them year round and has had a few entrepreneurs buy a pickup truckload to take home and resell. I can imagine the ad on Craig's list or ebay.
No shit. Toilets that work.

[beadsofpassion]

AMEN Daisydog7! Electricity is killer here!!Here in Texas I was charged .13 per kWh. Sure wish we got it at your .068kwh. Just think, my electric bill would be around $180! Thanks for the info.
This is an all electric home, no gas. Sure wish it did have gas heat and appliances.

[cgreagor]

Another thing that's growing in popularity is Americans coming up to buy Canadian toilets. It seems a few of our southern neighbours are dissatisfied with the low flush toilets they're required to install, so come up here and buy replacements. The fella at the plumbing supply shop where we buy copper pipe (it's used for the masts on our stained glass model ships) told me he gets a steady flow of them year round and has had a few entrepreneurs buy a pickup truckload to take home and resell. I can imagine the ad on Craig's list or ebay.
No shit. Toilets that work.



I hate those toilets! OMG, my kids are always clogging them. We have gone thru so many plungers!

Glad we have NG and do not have to deal with the electrical bills!

[bousky]

You mean there are still toilets out there that do work! Plungers aren't meant for daily use?

[Dennis Brady]

You mean there are still toilets out there that do work! Plungers aren't meant for daily use?

Yup.
Even got toilets with 2 separate flush levels. One lever flushes half the tank (for the yellow fellow) the other dumps the whole tank (to down the brown).

[Starfield]

Before you consider the "hot water on demand" type of heater read this:

The hot water on demand will consistantly give you hot water at a fixed rate above your incoming water temp. temperature. What that means is that in winter if your incoming water temp drops (for example you have well water and the water temp is colder in winter) then the hot water will be colder.

Consider this before you install one of these units!

Karen

[Dennis Brady]

Before you consider the "hot water on demand" type of heater read this:

The hot water on demand will consistantly give you hot water at a fixed rate above your incoming water temp. temperature. What that means is that in winter if your incoming water temp drops (for example you have well water and the water temp is colder in winter) then the hot water will be colder.

Consider this before you install one of these units!

Karen

Mine doesn't work that way. It has a dial that's set to establish the temperature the water is heated to. With the dial set at 160, the water is always dispensed at 160 regardless of the temperature of the incoming water.

[daisydog7]

Rapunsel and Paul Ewing: What are we in Texas going to do about our ridiculously high electric prices? We are being gouged, paying up to twice as much as people in other states pay. Any ideas? I'm ready to write our legislature, picket, pray, you name it. Pam

[angelique_redhead]

Supposedly the railroad commission was in charge of utilities at one time in Texas. I wonder if it still is? Angelique

Rapunsel and Paul Ewing: What are we in Texas going to do about our ridiculously high electric prices? We are being gouged, paying up to twice as much as people in other states pay. Any ideas? I'm ready to write our legislature, picket, pray, you name it. Pam

[Norskiglass]

well I run 4 kilns (2 4x's larger than yours) and the highest bill Ive had all year ~$240.00 and that includes a ton of lighting and gas heat.

[Dennis Brady]

Rapunsel and Paul Ewing: What are we in Texas going to do about our ridiculously high electric prices? We are being gouged, paying up to twice as much as people in other states pay. Any ideas? I'm ready to write our legislature, picket, pray, you name it. Pam

Maybe it's karmic justice for you folks having sent Witless to Washington?

[daisydog7]

Maybe we thought things would get better with him gone.

[Dennis Brady]

Maybe we thought things would get better with him gone.

You're probably right. You just didn't send him far enough. I hear Haliburton is moving to Dubai. Maybe you can send Dubya and Dicky with them?

[PaulaD]

Our Chili Peppers only use 8 amps...

Paula

[daisydog7]

I am so tempted to sell my Skutt GM10F and buy one of your Chili Peppers. I really like the Skutt, but it is very slow to cool down. Basically, if I finish beading at 2 or 3 pm, it is well after midnight until I can take the beads out. I believe your Chili Pepper cools quicker, right? And doesn't it hold more beads?

[PaulaD]

Yes. Yes.

We use them exclusively at Tin City.

Paula

[Dennis Brady]

I am so tempted to sell my Skutt GM10F and buy one of your Chili Peppers. I really like the Skutt, but it is very slow to cool down. Basically, if I finish beading at 2 or 3 pm, it is well after midnight until I can take the beads out. I believe your Chili Pepper cools quicker, right? And doesn't it hold more beads?

Cooling quicker isn't necessarily a good thing. Cooling too slow wastes time. Cooling too quick wastes beads. If you're staying up until midnight to take the beads out, are you reloading it with another batch? If your little kiln can't handle your daily production of beads, you'd be wiser to get a bigger kiln then get one that cools quicker.

[PaulaD]

The Chili Pepper doesn't necessarily cool quicker unless you program it to and people do not loose beads using it rather than brick if that's what Dennis is implying.
I also own brick kilns and would not use them as my daily bead annealer. It's almost impossible to cool them fast and if you open the lid to do it then you get a bunch of kiln dust on your beads..
The Chili is more efficent time wise and amperage wise heating up and cooling down .Paula

[daisydog7]

Is about a 12 hour time from end of annealing to room temperature reasonable, or unreasonable? I never take beads out until they are at room temperature. Also, I stack beads and can get around 36 beads in without major difficulty. After that, it begins to be difficult to close the kiln door, or mandrels sliding everywhere, etc. How does that compare with other kilns, including the Chili Pepper?

[Dennis Brady]

Is about a 12 hour time from end of annealing to room temperature reasonable, or unreasonable? I never take beads out until they are at room temperature. Also, I stack beads and can get around 36 beads in without major difficulty. After that, it begins to be difficult to close the kiln door, or mandrels sliding everywhere, etc. How does that compare with other kilns, including the Chili Pepper?

For the same price as a Chili Pepper, you could get this - complete with quartz enclosed elements and built in bead rack.

http://www.frantzartglass.com/mmFRNZNEW/Images/131213%20actual.JPG

[PaulaD]

Is about a 12 hour time from end of annealing to room temperature reasonable, or unreasonable? I never take beads out until they are at room temperature. Also, I stack beads and can get around 36 beads in without major difficulty. After that, it begins to be difficult to close the kiln door, or mandrels sliding everywhere, etc. How does that compare with other kilns, including the Chili Pepper?


Somewhere around here or on the R4 website is a post where Tink and John had hundreds of vessels in the Chili Pepper....And photos to prove it.

Paula

[daisydog7]

They both look like great kilns. I think I want one of each.
What is the second one? I couldn't read the label. It looks like Bartlett? Or is that the controller?

[Kalera]

I love my Chili Pepper! It's my backup, loaner, and all-around gadabout annealer. Low energy usage and only 8 amps. I use my EK Miller kiln as a primary annealer, but I need the Chili Pepper occasionally and it does a primo job.

As for toilets, if you have a salvage center nearby (most cities have one, look under "building salvage" in the yellow pages) you can usually pick up a "vintage", ie "actually flushes" toilet for about $35. I have an art-deco sweetie from 1941.

The only input I have for water heaters is that I was told that they might be inadequate for my shower-obsessed family of 5. :) We may still get one for the second bathroom, if we ever get around to it...

[Jenfire]

Texans don't fear! I live in wonderful Hamlin Ny which is UPSTATE NY. Cost of electricity is --- drum roll please------------ 13.8 cents per kwh. Try that out for size. It sucks. electric bill this month 413 dollar. SUCKS
Jen

[smutboy420]

I'm in Upstate NY also Were paying 14.8 per kilowatt at our house. and the glass shop wich is on a farm its 12.8 cents per KW Because its on a farm.

But the land load includes the electric in the rent at the shop.

[Dennis Brady]

They both look like great kilns. I think I want one of each.
What is the second one? I couldn't read the label. It looks like Bartlett? Or is that the controller?

The large photo is an AIM CR413/D.
It has a built in Bartlett controller.

[MikeAurelius]

Is about a 12 hour time from end of annealing to room temperature reasonable, or unreasonable? I never take beads out until they are at room temperature. Also, I stack beads and can get around 36 beads in without major difficulty. After that, it begins to be difficult to close the kiln door, or mandrels sliding everywhere, etc. How does that compare with other kilns, including the Chili Pepper?

That's a long time, IMO from the end of annealing to room temp, and fairly typical of either a brick kiln or a kiln that has an improperly configured cool down cycle.

You can drop from 850 (Moretti strain point) to room temp in about 3 hours quite safely and not lose a single bead. If there are smaller more fragile items in there, with decoration etc, I'd take 5 hours instead just to give them more time.

But all-in-all 12 hours is a damn long time, especially if you think about starting your cycle on a Friday night and then hoping to take beads out first thing Saturday morning and starting fresh -- you wouldn't be able to because the kiln would be still too hot. No more than an 8 hour cycle, total time, is PLENTY good enough for bead annealing, and most of that time should be spent in the cool down phase.

Key times and temps:

1) Annealing @ 950 F, about 1 to 1.5 hours depending on the size of your beads

2) Ramp to Strain, about 1 hour

3) Hold @ strain point 850 F, about 10 minutes or so, this allows the kiln to catch up -- a lot of times, there is a lag between what the controller wants for temp and what the kiln can provide, especially on the cool down side of things.

12 hours <shakes head> that's waaaaaaaaay too long IMO.

[Jenfire]

Smut boy you have my sympathies. NYS sucks in so many ways. I can not wait until the kids are raised and then I am outa here!
Jen

[daisydog7]

New York, you are paying what Texans are for electricity. We're at .14 also, and locked into a year's contract to get it.

[daisydog7]

Mike: I programmed the kiln according to the manual. However, I will take another look and see if I can change it. It would be awesome to be able to take the beads out in five hours.