propyline vs mapp HELP

[frannyflannel]

Hi,
I'm new to your forum.
I found you through another group- Thanks Lynn!!!!
I run a HH. I am tired of the wee little MAPP cannisters and was told that MAPP could be gotten in larger amounts through the local welding supply.
When I called the sales dude said that they have only propyline which is the "same" as MAPP.
That may be true for metal, but is it true for glass?
None of our little group has any experience withis particular gas, and since I would need to buy the tank etc. to find out,
fran I am not too anxious to try it and discover that it wrecks my glass.
HELP!!

[MikeAurelius]

Propylene IS the same as MAPP. Just a different trade name.

Now, be sure you keep your tank OUTSIDE, ok?

[Dale M.]

Actually they are NOT the same chemically

MAPP gas is ...
56% (by Volume) LP Gas (propane)
44% (by Volume) Methyl Acetylene - Propadiene

Propylene is a complete gas in itself (99% by Volume, not a mixture of other gasses).

As for flame quality and a producer of heat, yes the two gases are pretty close to producing same flame and heat.

Here is probably most current information on internet about using HH on bulk fuels.

Bulk Fuel & HH Torch (http://www.artglassforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11)

Dale

[Cyndi]

Propylene is NOT the same as Mapp- though it is cheaper and may be similar. I had to use a whole tank of propylene that I bought from my gas supplier, thinking it was Mapp- I had asked for Mapp. My clear and white beads were sooty and gray. I called them and asked them if they'd given me Mapp and the said no- they'd given me Propylene. Mapp burns much cleaner. If you do get the propylene I recommend getting a small tank of it to see if it will work for you (it's cheaper). I have a friend who ended up with a 70 lb tank of it, wishing she'd been more specific in requesting Mapp.

Hi,
I'm new to your forum.
I found you through another group- Thanks Lynn!!!!
I run a HH. I am tired of the wee little MAPP cannisters and was told that MAPP could be gotten in larger amounts through the local welding supply.
When I called the sales dude said that they have only propyline which is the "same" as MAPP.
That may be true for metal, but is it true for glass?
None of our little group has any experience withis particular gas, and since I would need to buy the tank etc. to find out,
fran I am not too anxious to try it and discover that it wrecks my glass.
HELP!!

[MikeAurelius]

Right as always, Dale. All I can say is that I had a senior moment. DOH!



Actually they are NOT the same chemically

MAPP gas is ...
56% (by Volume) LP Gas (propane)
44% (by Volume) Methyl Acetylene - Propadiene

Propylene is a complete gas in itself (99% by Volume, not a mixture of other gasses).

As for flame quality and a producer of heat, yes the two gases are pretty close to producing same flame and heat.

Here is probably most current information on internet about using HH on bulk fuels.

Bulk Fuel & HH Torch (http://www.artglassforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11)

Dale

[Janine]

I use propylene and have had no problems with soot. After using propane in a class, it seemed much cleaner! I have not tried MAPP, but was told not to by my glass store, since they said propylene was cleaner. I dunno... ???

I agree with Cyndi - start small and see if it works for you.

[frannyflannel]

Wow!
I REALLY appreciate all the feedback. :biggrin:
I will try to get a small bit and see how I like it.
I haven't had any problems with MAPP, so I was hoping to not invite any.
And yes, even though my studio is only in a polebarn, I will keep the tank outside when I graduate from the little 1lb jobs.
I have heard that the fine insurance folks get a bit techy if they find out ya have that stuff inside anything.
Something about voiding the policy......
:waving:
fran

[alexm]

MAPP is not available in all areas. I could not find it in bulk locally. I settled on propylene when I worked on a HH. As long as you don't run the HH full tilt, you should not have problems with sooting.

[Jacinthe]

I cant get either of those gases here in Holland, so I use plain old propane. :D

[Su Poole]

It's a real problem outside the US, most places don't stock anything other than the small MAPP canisters and they're horribly expensive.

We moved to propane with the HH and Mike found it less clean than MAPP, but only in some of the transparents. He's on an oxycon and a Minor now but he still thinks the HH does some amazing stuff with MAPP. If it were cheaper to use and quieter he'd still be using a HH.

-Su

[Lisi]

It's been a little while since anyone else posted a comment here, but I thought I would add:

I was using a 30lb propylene tank for a year and a half with my HH and have had no problems at all. Vetrofond clear was very nice, for example. I can't get any other fuel in my location other than propane.

[x_phoenician]

I'm still confused about switching to propane. :?:

So I can go buy a 1 lb. canister of propane and attach it to my HH torch just like I do with the MAPP gas? There's a big price difference so I would like to try it.

I know it burns a little hotter, right? Are there any other safety concerns I should know about before hooking up a little propane canister to the HH? I don't want something exploding in my face. I don't have to use oxygen with it also do I?
** Plus my mother needs some reassurance, she was concerned about me switching to propane and blowing something or someone up** ;)

~*Tracy*~

[MikeAurelius]

Propane is no different from MAPP when it comes to switching tanks. If you haven't blown yourself up using MAPP, you won't do it using propane. IF you follow all the standard safety rules.

[Dale M.]

I'm still confused about switching to propane. :?:

So I can go buy a 1 lb. canister of propane and attach it to my HH torch just like I do with the MAPP gas? There's a big price difference so I would like to try it.

I know it burns a little hotter, right? Are there any other safety concerns I should know about before hooking up a little propane canister to the HH? I don't want something exploding in my face. I don't have to use oxygen with it also do I?
** Plus my mother needs some reassurance, she was concerned about me switching to propane and blowing something or someone up** ;)

~*Tracy*~

As for use there is no differenc in using propane and MAPP. Torch will function quite similar on either fuel, and safety procedures are same for either fuel.

Propane actually burns a little cooler than MAPP.... That is why most people tolerate the higher price of MAPP to get the heat...

Dale

[x_phoenician]

Ok, thanks you two... I appreciate the clarification. Got it. :)
Tracy

[Barb H.]

Just a quick suggestion from experience. I was also using a HH and switched to propane since it was cheaper, but...this past week my HH quit working. I tried cleaning it etc., then called the company. They told me the HH and some other torch heads used for lampworking were made for MAPP gas only, or the propane/oxygen set up. Propane can clog the head since the MAPP burns cleaner. I would suggest if you're going to use propane get a regular torch head and save your HH for special beads that you use only with MAPP. I have to admit I like the regular torch head though, because I can see exactly where the flame is and how far to work in/out of it. Best of luck, but I though I'd mention this since I just went through it. On a good note, they sent me a new torch head free of charge! Good luck, Barb H.

[Dale M.]

MAPP Only.... I have serious doubts.

A Hot head will function on Propane, MAPP or Propylene, only difference is Propylene and MAPP tend to be a bit hotter than Propane.

And if I may ask, what is a "regular" torch head.... Are you referring to the hardware store soldering torch for plumbing?

Dale

[MikeAurelius]

Ditto.

[Barb H.]

Hey Guys! Sorry, I was just repeating what I was told, since she was very adamant about it. Maybe that's their way of using it for a selling point! So then you guys are saying I should be okay if I use my HH, since I trust you experienced guys more. Thanks Mike and Dale!

[Dale M.]

Hey Guys! Sorry, I was just repeating what I was told, since she was very adamant about it. Maybe that's their way of using it for a selling point! So then you guys are saying I should be okay if I use my HH, since I trust you experienced guys more. Thanks Mike and Dale!

Yes... Use Hot Head... Isn't that why you bought it!

Dale

[MikeAurelius]

Naw, don't sweat it. They push MAPP because it does burn "a bit" hotter, but propane will work quite well - lots and lots of people use it.

[Barb H.]

Thanks guys..........now I think I'll call her and tell her! Plus...there's nothing stating that you have to use MAPP on the new one I just received, or it might clog up! Mike...I'll take your non-paying bidder frustration out on her. LOL (hope you got that straightened out!)

[MikeAurelius]

LOL Barb!!! ;)

[x_phoenician]

Barb, I appreciate you mentioning it even if that girl at the company misinformed you. And thanks to Mike and Dale for telling us her info was a bunch'a hooey. I used propane yesterday and I haven't had any problems yet. My bead colors look the same to me as when I use MAPP gas... although when I used this opaque dark turquoise-y green color it had some salmon-pink splotches appear. I don't know if it's just the glass itself but either way I liked the effect.

~*Tracy*~