I use a ------- and here's why...

[Holly]

At the risk of stirring up passions, I would like to know something.
I would like to know:
What torch are you using. And why do you like it, or *not* like it.
The more specific, the better!

I am on the fence here. I have used a HH for 3 years. It suits me pretty well.
I can exploit some of its "drawbacks" to my advantage.
My main problem is the slow heating of the initial gather. Other wise,
I do OK. I'm open to trying something new, so tell me why I should try
your favorite torch!
Snarking, sniping and slandering can go in the you-know-where.
I'd like the testimonials of personal experience!

Tell all,
Thanks ahead of time,
H

BTW- I do mostly longish focals w/lots of pattern, silver and reduction techniques.

[chrisdd]

Hi, Holly! :waving: I've been looking for you on all the Hot Head threads. If anyone has any doubts about the kind of beads that can be made on a HH, they only need to look at yours.

I use a Minor because it works on natural gas and an oxy con. I was very keen on not dealing with tanks. I never even considered a Hot Head because I knew I would quickly become impatient with how slowly it melts glass.

[Dwaine Scum]

Well this is just my personal opinion, I was taught on a Carslile CC++, its a great torch, but it is a air/gas hog... you will have to have a Liquid Dewar, a t cell tank will last you 8 hours... now, I stick with the Bethlihiem burner.. the pm-d2 water cooled. Now here is the stickler about the pump, Bethlhiem sells the "pump kit" for $400 extra... screw that, goto home depot, get a fountain SUBMEWRSABLE pump for $20, and the appropriate tubing for your torch, and a nice rubbermaid bin... a good sized at least 5 gallon one. Fill the bucket /bin with water, hook up your submersable pump, plug it in Violla, you are set for under $30.

now this is just my opinion...

[Holly]

:waving: Back at ya Chris!
Thanks for responding with just the kind of useful info I was looking for!
I'm not keen on the tanks, either.
Can you get a soft bushy flame with your minor?

[JCHerrellGlass]

I use a minor. I feel limited by it because my love for glass is getting much bigger and more towards boro. Otherwise it's very nice. It survived my learning & screwing up and holds steady and faithful even now.

I was almost decided that I would get a GTT Phantom (soon)... but I used Heidi's Mirage. Nice. Maybe... there's no point in not going all the way. I'm on the fence... it's a big financial leap, but I can't let stupid money make those kinds of decisions for me any more.

I teach on a HH and it has it's merit. I also occasionally hop on the HH if the minor is packed up or something. If I ever use shampoo glass I would use the HH.

[loribeads]

I use a minor/propane/oxy con but I also own a hot head and a lynx.

I've never really used the hot head, mostly because I only bought a couple of those little mapp canisters. My friend used to borrow it to practice at home.

I used the lynx for a little while. Maybe a month or so? I didn't like it as much as I thought I would so I went back to using the minor. I still have the lynx. It's packed away safely in a drawer. I may give it another try when my second oxy concentrator gets here.

I like the minor because it isn't fussy, it's clean burning and most of all because I'm used to it.

[Holly]

Well this is just my personal opinion, I was taught on a Carslile CC++, its a great torch, but it is a air/gas hog... you will have to have a Liquid Dewar, a t cell tank will last you 8 hours... now, I stick with the Bethlihiem burner.. the pm-d2 water cooled. Now here is the stickler about the pump, Bethlhiem sells the "pump kit" for $400 extra... screw that, goto home depot, get a fountain SUBMEWRSABLE pump for $20, and the appropriate tubing for your torch, and a nice rubbermaid bin... a good sized at least 5 gallon one. Fill the bucket /bin with water, hook up your submersable pump, plug it in Violla, you are set for under $30.

now this is just my opinion...
Dwaine! Thank you!
What's a "Liquid Dewar"? And a T cell tank-assuming that's an oxy tank?
This is some good stuff- and you save me $370!!! Great directions.
Do you work in soft glass or boro (or both)?

[DesertDreamer]

I'll bite, because I truly think it's a matter of personal preference, economy and what you want/need to accomplish.

I learned on a HH. One of those nifty kits from Lark Books with Cindy Jenkins (gods bless her!) small booklet. Of course, that only lasted me about 5 sessions because it WAS loud, scared me silly, and I had no clue what I was really doing.

Several months later I took a class with Kate Fowle, on a Minor. Love at first sight! I tried to repeat what I'd learned on my HH and it frustrated me...a LOT. Made beads happily on my Minor for 2 years. But I discovered a really good use for the HH about a year into that love affair....working with dichro. I would fry/destroy/obliterate the poor innocent dichro on the Minor, but for some reason I could make it sing on the HH. I worked with a "dual" station for about a year before I finally spent a looong weekend trying to figure out how to make it work on the Minor. Victory!

Not long after I realized I was making larger and more eccentric-shaped beads. I read, chatted, reasearched (this was before WC, and even the SGB...before they added the "I"...wasn't much of an entity yet) on various torches. Finally, I made arrangements with the Very Good Guys at Wale Apparatus to test drive several torches. I tried a Major, a Midrange Plus, a GTT Lynx and a GTT Phantom. At the time I didn't need a HOTTER torch nearly as much as I needed a BIGGER flame. The Midrange was perfect. And still is....I've grown into it rather nicely and love it a bunch.

And the moral of the story is.....I FINALLY got my NG line connected today so I'm MAKING BEADS tomorrow!!!!!!

[Holly]

I use a minor/propane/oxy con but I also own a hot head and a lynx.

I've never really used the hot head, mostly because I only bought a couple of those little mapp canisters. My friend used to borrow it to practice at home.

I used the lynx for a little while. Maybe a month or so? I didn't like it as much as I thought I would so I went back to using the minor. I still have the lynx. It's packed away safely in a drawer. I may give it another try when my second oxy concentrator gets here.

I like the minor because it isn't fussy, it's clean burning and most of all because I'm used to it.

Minor= one oxycon
Lynx = two oxycons?

This is the kind of info that could sway me. I'm so low tech it's not funny.
I guess that makes the Lynx hotter? Hotter=faster?
See how much educating I need?

H

[Holly]

I use a minor. I feel limited by it because my love for glass is getting much bigger and more towards boro. Otherwise it's very nice. It survived my learning & screwing up and holds steady and faithful even now.

I was almost decided that I would get a GTT Phantom (soon)... but I used Heidi's Mirage. Nice. Maybe... there's no point in not going all the way. I'm on the fence... it's a big financial leap, but I can't let stupid money make those kinds of decisions for me any more.

I teach on a HH and it has it's merit. I also occasionally hop on the HH if the minor is packed up or something. If I ever use shampoo glass I would use the HH.
Thanks!
I'm starting to get a clue here.
Hotter=faster AND bigger AND boro.
I love boro, but it's not for me (at least for now)
H

[Holly]

I'll bite, because I truly think it's a matter of personal preference, economy and what you want/need to accomplish.

I learned on a HH. One of those nifty kits from Lark Books with Cindy Jenkins (gods bless her!) small booklet. Of course, that only lasted me about 5 sessions because it WAS loud, scared me silly, and I had no clue what I was really doing.

Several months later I took a class with Kate Fowle, on a Minor. Love at first sight! I tried to repeat what I'd learned on my HH and it frustrated me...a LOT. Made beads happily on my Minor for 2 years. But I discovered a really good use for the HH about a year into that love affair....working with dichro. I would fry/destroy/obliterate the poor innocent dichro on the Minor, but for some reason I could make it sing on the HH. I worked with a "dual" station for about a year before I finally spent a looong weekend trying to figure out how to make it work on the Minor. Victory!

Not long after I realized I was making larger and more eccentric-shaped beads. I read, chatted, reasearched (this was before WC, and even the SGB...before they added the "I"...wasn't much of an entity yet) on various torches. Finally, I made arrangements with the Very Good Guys at Wale Apparatus to test drive several torches. I tried a Major, a Midrange Plus, a GTT Lynx and a GTT Phantom. At the time I didn't need a HOTTER torch nearly as much as I needed a BIGGER flame. The Midrange was perfect. And still is....I've grown into it rather nicely and love it a bunch.

And the moral of the story is.....I FINALLY got my NG line connected today so I'm MAKING BEADS tomorrow!!!!!!

Fantastic! New info- "a bigger flame". This is a new idea for me and I think it may be important for my needs if it is useful for larger/longer beads.
The pinpoint flame of the minor seems great for smaller beads (or not?)
but I'm not sure about it for long/large beads.
Thanks Karen, and have fun torching tomorrow!

[Shawn T]

Holly Hey Honey,
I have a minor and have loved it, I have had it for years now and have been very happy with it. I run it with propane and one concentrator and have never had a problem with it. Oh and I started on a HH and had no difficult learning curve when I switch to the minor.
I have just bought a Pirahna, But have not set it up yet. Been too busy getting ready for a show next week to play with a new torch. It will burn hotter with one concentrator. Sorry I can't give you more info on the Pirahna, give me a couple of weeks and I'll let you know how I like it and the difference between that and the minor.

[JCHerrellGlass]

Thanks!
I'm starting to get a clue here.
Hotter=faster AND bigger AND boro.
I love boro, but it's not for me (at least for now)
H


U R Welcome. I'll add FASTER to bigger and boro. But speed is totally an individual thing. Slow is good sometimes for me, but mostly fast is my thing. The best part of the Mirage is that the inner torch is a lynx so I still (instantly) revert to smaller, yet powerful. I really super like that. I like the pinpoint controls, too. The minor lacks that bonus.

My only torch regret is not getting, or knowing enough about, bigger torches right off the bat.

[Kaibeads]

lynx + 1 concentrator. It works better than any other torch on one concentrator. Better heat and better detail. It's much more precise for making beads. If you dont want precise, I'm sure a minor will do just fine.

[PyroChixRock]

You do not need liquid unless you are using a LOT of oxy, and I mean a K tank every day at least. Liquid builds pressure and if you don't use it, it will build pressure and vent, thus costing you money for not working, or just not working and using the oxy fast enough. It WILL save you a LOT of money if you use a lot of oxy, but if you're used to running on a concentrator, you won't save by using it. Hope this helps.

[Holly]

Holly Hey Honey,
I have a minor and have loved it, I have had it for years now and have been very happy with it. I run it with propane and one concentrator and have never had a problem with it. Oh and I started on a HH and had no difficult learning curve when I switch to the minor.
I have just bought a Pirahna, But have not set it up yet. Been too busy getting ready for a show next week to play with a new torch. It will burn hotter with one concentrator. Sorry I can't give you more info on the Pirahna, give me a couple of weeks and I'll let you know how I like it and the difference between that and the minor.
Hey Shawn!
Glad to hear about your learning curve experience. That's a concern of mine.
Let me know about the Pirahna if you get a chance.
Good Luck with your show!

H

[Holly]

lynx + 1 concentrator. It works better than any other torch on one concentrator. Better heat and better detail. It's much more precise for making beads. If you dont want precise, I'm sure a minor will do just fine.
I do a lot of intricate stringer work-is this where the "precision" comes in?
I'm so used to the bushy soft flame of the HH which is definitely NOT precise
by any means! I think I need some test driving.
Thanks for your input!
H

[Holly]

You do not need liquid unless you are using a LOT of oxy, and I mean a K tank every day at least. Liquid builds pressure and if you don't use it, it will build pressure and vent, thus costing you money for not working, or just not working and using the oxy fast enough. It WILL save you a LOT of money if you use a lot of oxy, but if you're used to running on a concentrator, you won't save by using it. Hope this helps.
I'm getting a broad picture, which is great. Every bit of info helps!
Thanks much!
H

[*Sally*]

Hey Holly,
I'm pretty new around here as far as posting is concerned but I though I'd throw my 2c in.
I started on a HH and lasted about 18 mths before I switched over to a minor with an oxycon. Time was a big factor in the decision for me. I mostly do large heavily encased florals and it was taking way too long on the HH. I love the minor, it's nice and clean, hot enough for what I do and I only have to refill the gas bottle once every 3 mths or so.

But, I would never get rid of the HH. It's noisy and fumy but it has worked really well and it can't hurt to have it as backup.

cheers
Sally

[Dwaine Scum]

this is a liquid dewar
http://tattooedscumbag.com/images/dewars.jpg

K tanks lasted 8 to 12 hours for me, a liquid dewar lastys a month, and it costs me $60 to refill.. a k cylender is less expensive to refill ($8) but If I have to get one every few days it adds up... it all boils down to what serves your pourpose... If you are running a minor, then Liquid would be overkill for sure...

If you use a Air hog (http://www.bethlehemburners.com/pm2d.htm) like me, then you would save $$$ on a dewar... Or the other gas hogs (http://www.carlislemachine.com/CarlisleGlassworking/BurnersAccessories.htm)

[Holly]

this is a liquid dewar
http://tattooedscumbag.com/images/dewars.jpg

K tanks lasted 8 to 12 hours for me, a liquid dewar lastys a month, and it costs me $60 to refill.. a k cylender is less expensive to refill ($8) but If I have to get one every few days it adds up... it all boils down to what serves your pourpose... If you are running a minor, then Liquid would be overkill for sure...

If you use a Air hog (http://www.bethlehemburners.com/pm2d.htm) like me, then you would save $$$ on a dewar... Or the other gas hogs (http://www.carlislemachine.com/CarlisleGlassworking/BurnersAccessories.htm)

AHA! Thanks for the pics. (Is that frost on that tank??) I think you're right about the overkill in my case. I'm always open to an education, tho.

H

[Anakin's Glass Eye]

I currently use a Lynx with propane and one oxycon. Occasionally I use tanked Oxy for larger Boro pieces. A second oxycon is on the way so I can return the oxy bottle - 80 cu-ft 'J' tank gives me about 8 hours on my Lynx with regulator set at at 5 psig. A refill is $15.00.

GTT makes some very high quality equipment. Their torches are very efficient and keep cool. Somewhat pricey but you get what you pay for. I love my Lynx because of the control it gives. With enough Oxy I can do a 1.5" Boro marble in a reasonable amount of time. I can also still use it for soft glass. So I guess what I'm saying is GTT Lynx = flexibility + capability + efficiency + quality.

I used a Hot Head for over two years and a Nortel Minor for one year. Each torch has it's advantages. I'd recommend baby steps as you advance your skills and equipment. Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.

[rightbrainbeads]

Holly! I love your beads!!! :biggrin: I keep seeing them in show and tells and they're simply awesome!

I was so happy on a Minor and 5 lpm oxy concentrator for about 5 years... I can't say enough good things about a Minor... it's such a work horse and works beautifully on one concentrator. Then I thought I wanted to 'upgrade' to a Lynx, so I did, but I didn't like the narrow flame or the flame chemistry (I loved the reactions I could get with silver and frit on the Minor). I sold the Lynx after a few months and went back to my trusty Minor...

Last winter I bought a Barracuda and an Integra 10 oxy concentrator from Paulette. It runs the Barracuda so beautifully and is truly the most wonderful set up so far. With the outer ring on I have a flame that's about 3/4 - 1" wide and it quickly melts gathers or keeps long beads toasty. And, AND (the best part :) ) I love the flame chemistry of the Barracuda... lots of nice reactions happening with silver and frit, which is important to me.

Torches are all so different... if you can 'test drive' the ones you think you're interested in, that'd be the best!

lynne :waving:

p.s. the Piranha is the center fire of a Barracuda, and like Shawn says, it's hotter-- a much more penetrating heat than a Minor...

[gmdcrafts]

I didn't even start on a HH, I used a Weller plumber's torch from hubbie's tool box - for the 1st 6 months! Then I felt I was ready for a bigger, hotter torch suitable for soft glass. Switched to a Minor, and am still happily using that today, with no plan to get another anytime soon. The BBQ propane tanks last about 6 to 8 weeks for me (usually torching anywhere from 4 to 8 hr/day), and I use an oxy concentrator.

[beadstillmyheart]

I use a HH because:

1. I just started a few months ago and wanted to make sure I liked it before investing.
2. We've been very poor lately.
3. My beads still pretty much suck and I can't justify spending a bunch of money until I feel like I can do better work.

[beadstillmyheart]

I use a HH because:

1. I just started a few months ago and wanted to make sure I liked it before investing.
2. We've been very poor lately.
3. My beads still pretty much suck and I can't justify spending a bunch of money until I feel like I can do better work.

Wanted to add that from all I've read the Bethlehem Piranha seems like a good choice to work towards...any thoughts?

[Holly]

I currently use a Lynx with propane and one oxycon. Occasionally I use tanked Oxy for larger Boro pieces. A second oxycon is on the way so I can return the oxy bottle - 80 cu-ft 'J' tank gives me about 8 hours on my Lynx with regulator set at at 5 psig. A refill is $15.00.

GTT makes some very high quality equipment. Their torches are very efficient and keep cool. Somewhat pricey but you get what you pay for. I love my Lynx because of the control it gives. With enough Oxy I can do a 1.5" Boro marble in a reasonable amount of time. I can also still use it for soft glass. So I guess what I'm saying is GTT Lynx = flexibility + capability + efficiency + quality.

I used a Hot Head for over two years and a Nortel Minor for one year. Each torch has it's advantages. I'd recommend baby steps as you advance your skills and equipment. Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.
This is soooo helpful. I'm getting some great responses and I especially love to hear the comparisons of people who have used a HH because they know what it does in relation to the others.
Thanks!
H

[Zooziis]

Girlie, what you do on a hot head is more then OK... I love the bead I got from you at the Gathering!!

[Holly]

Holly! I love your beads!!! :biggrin: I keep seeing them in show and tells and they're simply awesome!

I was so happy on a Minor and 5 lpm oxy concentrator for about 5 years... I can't say enough good things about a Minor... it's such a work horse and works beautifully on one concentrator. Then I thought I wanted to 'upgrade' to a Lynx, so I did, but I didn't like the narrow flame or the flame chemistry (I loved the reactions I could get with silver and frit on the Minor). I sold the Lynx after a few months and went back to my trusty Minor...

Last winter I bought a Barracuda and an Integra 10 oxy concentrator from Paulette. It runs the Barracuda so beautifully and is truly the most wonderful set up so far. With the outer ring on I have a flame that's about 3/4 - 1" wide and it quickly melts gathers or keeps long beads toasty. And, AND (the best part :) ) I love the flame chemistry of the Barracuda... lots of nice reactions happening with silver and frit, which is important to me.

Torches are all so different... if you can 'test drive' the ones you think you're interested in, that'd be the best!

lynne :waving:

p.s. the Piranha is the center fire of a Barracuda, and like Shawn says, it's hotter-- a much more penetrating heat than a Minor...
Hey Lynne! Thanks so much!
This outer ring with the wide flame sounds interesting. The reactions are also very important to me. They are the basis of most of my work lately, so this is good to know.
H

[Holly]

Well, I stayed up late to monitor the hurricane and now that it has landed- I'm bushed!
And I don't mean George!
I'm going to check back in tomorrow-G'nite all!
H

[Dwaine Scum]

AHA! Thanks for the pics. (Is that frost on that tank??) I think you're right about the overkill in my case. I'm always open to an education, tho.

H
yes, its really engnious though, its a smaller tank in the center like the size of a propane tank, full of super compressed liquid oxygen, then its surounded by liquid nitrogen, to keep it condensed, . when you use the osxy it releases the nitrogen too, causing condensation, it was 78 degrees when I took that pic, so don't stick your tounge to it ;)

[Dwaine Scum]

I currently use a Lynx with propane and one oxycon. Occasionally I use tanked Oxy for larger Boro pieces. A second oxycon is on the way so I can return the oxy bottle - 80 cu-ft 'J' tank gives me about 8 hours on my Lynx with regulator set at at 5 psig. A refill is $15.00.

GTT makes some very high quality equipment. Their torches are very efficient and keep cool. Somewhat pricey but you get what you pay for. I love my Lynx because of the control it gives. With enough Oxy I can do a 1.5" Boro marble in a reasonable amount of time. I can also still use it for soft glass. So I guess what I'm saying is GTT Lynx = flexibility + capability + efficiency + quality.

I used a Hot Head for over two years and a Nortel Minor for one year. Each torch has it's advantages. I'd recommend baby steps as you advance your skills and equipment. Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.


I liked the lynx, I just didnt like there was no centerfire, plus like I siad, I was spoiled, I had my apprintaceship on a cc+ so I always had that huge hot flame... and nothing like the "pop" of a carslile to make people stain there shorts

[bolimasa]

I spent a year and a half on a HH than switched to a minor. I switched because a) I wanted to melt glass faster, and b) I hated throwing away 1lb cylinders and couldn't figure out away I could safely set up a bulk tank in me 2nd floor workshop. My studio location had a large impact on my torch choice. With my upstairs location I kept picturing turning off the propane, running through my bedroom, downstairs, through the living room and kitchen, out the back to turn off the propane. Reverse that to bleed the line. I figured I'd get distracted by kids or pets or my own feeble mind and not get the propane shut off properly--- kaboom! Then there was the issue of heading out back in snowstorms to turn the gas on and off. Since the propane option seemed unsafe to me, I needed a torch that could run on natural gas. I also wanted one that would run on a concentrator because there was no way I would be hauling big oxygen tanks up and down my oak staircase. The nortel torches run on residential pressure NG, which made them a good choice. The minor has a reputation of being a solid work horse used for many years by many beadmakers so I went with that. The GTT torches seemed very popular at the time, but I got the impression that they might be a bit more maintanance finicky than a minor, and other than a bobcat which may run on NG (I'm still not sure about this) I would have needed to use propane, which as I said, was not an option for me. If you are concerned with upgradability the midrange plus may a good choice... it's a midrange with a minor on top. I really considered this choice, but running the midrange half would have required a second concentrator, and between the torch, concentrator and NG line I was spending enough already so I decided to "stop the maddness" and just got the minor.

I got to use the mini CC in June, it seemed like a nice torch. It had a bushier flame, which is nice for big beads, vessels and hollows etc. but I think I'd miss my minors small flame for many things. It is also cheap, if that is important. I've toyed with getting one as a second torch for when I want that sort of flame. One good thing about both the minor and mini CC is that they are both relatively inexpensive. I'd hate to spend a big bucks on an expensive torch with out a good test drive first. At the cost of those two torches I wouldn't feel too guilty using one for a couple of years than trading up.

I wish it were possible to go some where and test drive torches!!! I'm sure they all have their advantages/disadvantages depending on how you like to work and what you like to make. I can picture myself wanting something different (bigger)in the future, but since this is a hobby I just can't justify the expense especially with out being to test drive a few kinds.

One thing I will sayfor sure is that I love using NG and a concentrator. It is great to stand by my torch and and get an endless supply of both gasses with the flip of a switch and turn of a knob. My gas line was spendy, ~$500 to run it from my crawlspace to my second floor, including the piping to hook it to my torch and 3 shut off valves. But I didn't need to spend money on regulators, a propane tank and LONG hoses so that defrayed the cost a bit. Between the convienence and my piece of mind regarding safety, it was definately worth every penny.

[Dwaine Scum]

Speaking of testing torches, I do know that Kristian at generations glass, is more than happy to let you test out his torch, or anything he may have at his shop. He is awesome, and is always willing to help out anyway he can

[bolimasa]

Id also like to add that Holly, I just love, love, love your beads!!!! Proof once again that there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on a HH!!!! It's really about the BEADS isn't it? And the CREATING! How you get there is not the important part.

[harpentuan]

I use a Nortel Redmax. I have a 12-hole tip on the pre-mix minor top burner, and the bottom Redmax Face. Before this I had a Nortel major torch, but I have tried any others.

Wen i realized that i did just fine without a center fire, and could handle the piggybacked torch OK, I went for the Max, great torch for the Money, and comparible to a Carlysle in heat.

[DiPat]

I'll weigh-in with my Bobcat.
I learned on an HH, but soon became impatient... I needed more heat! =}
And I hated using the MAPP canisters. Costly and kind of a pain.
Did my due diligence, and decided on the Bobcat. I would have loved the Lynx, but it wasn't in the budget, as I had to purchase the kiln and oxycon too.
Love it! Quiet! I really didn't know the HH was loud until I used the Bobcat.
I'm only using ~96-104coe glasses, and don't foresee Boro in my near future.
So, I'm very content.

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

I love Betty June, my flaming Bitchacuda! I have 1 oxy generator and I still need extra oxy to run the outter ring. Cool torch though, no complaints what so ever.
~Suzy~

[Mr. Smiley]

I'm on a GTT Mirage. it's the perfect torch for me... It goes as large as I need it to, but I can go really tiny too. Hands down, I think it's the most versatile boro torch... for soft glass and boro mixed, I would have the Bethlehem cuda.

[SuzyQ]

I am on a Minor but am thinking about something hotter with a wider flame. Well I actually just want a wider flame but if I upgrade I'm going to want hotter so I can try Boro.
I started with a plumbers torch. That lasted one session. My husband had a territory problem with me using his things :) I then took a class and we used a hot head which we got to take home. It was loud. I hate noise. Just ask my kids. So after about 10 mapp canisters I moved up to the Minor. I never thought I couldn't make a hot head work I just didn't like the noise.

[Bubbyanne]

Hi Holly, :waving:
How are you girlfriend? :grin:
Thank you, thank you, thank you for starting this great thread and for everyone's replies! I am learning so much and am getting the info I need to make an informed decision.

I am on a HH and have no gripes about it except for time. I don't get much time to make beads and standing around waiting for a lg bead to melt (cause I make em big!) just doesn't seem very efficient. I mostly make large focal encased florals and am interested in getting reactions with silver and frit. Reactions are fun. :wink: Small boro is also something I could see in my future.

We are currently saving up to buy a new set up and I know so little about this stuff it's almost scary. Reading everyones opinion and hearing the reasons they chose their torches has been incredibly helpful. Please keep them coming.

Shawn, I'll be looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Piranha.

Anyone else with a piranha please give us the low down. This is the choice I'm leaning towards. Thanks in advance. :)

Okay the cuda is also starting to sound good. Big price jump though = more time saving moola. How patient can I be? :-k

[Bear Rampant Glass]

I used a Hot Head for several months. It did the job, but was very slow. I recently bought a Piranha and I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. It was a learning curve, because it is much hotter, but it is absolutely a fantastic torch. I have worked on a Minor and a Mini CC also and the Piranha just appealed to me more/fit my needs better. I can do small boro work. It will run on oxy cons. And Lori Robbins has a pretty good deal on them
http://www.lorirobbins.com/Supplies.htm

Though you won't get out of there cheap if you look at her website! The creation station and pull my stringer are absofrikenlutely awsome (well worth the $$).

I wouldn't trade my Piranha for anything....well maybe a 'cuda someday, but right now I am totally in love with this torch.

I hope this helps with your Piranha info needs, Babs. If you have any other questions, just PM me or something.

Jeannette

[Jenn L'Rhe]

Holly,
I used a HH for a few months. I hated getting those little takes of Mapp. When I compared the cost of a larger tank, regulators, hoses, etc. it made more sense and less hassle (hauling tanks) for me to switch to a direct connect to the house lp and an oxy con. I picked the Piranha because it seemed to be a slight step up from a minor (thinking a little bit ahead). If and when I get ready for boro it should handle it on one concentrator. It also runs very economically. I LOVE it!! It is so nice and quiet, plus I just flip open the gas shut off, push the button on the oxy con and light up. No ice ups, tanks and the music doesn't have to be turned up so loud the whole house has to listen.
Kay

[Bubbyanne]

Yesssss! Thank you! :grin: I keep hearing good things about the piranha and so far, I'm sold. Saving that link...where's my credit card?... :wink:
I used a Hot Head for several months. It did the job, but was very slow. I recently bought a Piranha and I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. It was a learning curve, because it is much hotter, but it is absolutely a fantastic torch. I have worked on a Minor and a Mini CC also and the Piranha just appealed to me more/fit my needs better. I can do small boro work. It will run on oxy cons. And Lori Robbins has a pretty good deal on them
http://www.lorirobbins.com/Supplies.htm

Though you won't get out of there cheap if you look at her website! The creation station and pull my stringer are absofrikenlutely awsome (well worth the $$).

I wouldn't trade my Piranha for anything....well maybe a 'cuda someday, but right now I am totally in love with this torch.

I hope this helps with your Piranha info needs, Babs. If you have any other questions, just PM me or something.

Jeannette

[Sue H-K]

I'll put my 2 cents in too on this one...I worked on a HH for over a year until I got my Mini CC from Carlisle and I love it!!! I am adding a second concentrator because it is a little bit of an oxy hog, but I have had not one iota of trouble with it.....you have a nice wide flame and can get a teeny little pinpoint too and it is cheap!!!!! If I had it to do over again I would buy another one in a heartbeat!

[Dwaine Scum]

you can never go wrong with a beth, any make, any modelor GTT, or Carslise... but Im a beth junkie

[rosiescreations]

I started on a hot head and the noise was to much. I have a lynx. I started with tanked O2 but soon went to a concentrator. Worked great for soft glass. I added another concentrator and it is even better.
If I were you I would go for the best torch I could afford that way you won't have to move up again if you get interested in boro.

[Three Muses Glass]

I started on a hothead too. Didn't like the noise, the muddy colors, changing the itty bitty tanks, but it was a good learning experience and an inexpensive way to get to know melting glass a little bit. Evidently I wasn't doing something right with it because I see the gorgeous beads peeps make with a hothead and man! Now I have a Mini-CC. It was pretty inexpensive too, but I'm very happy with it. I'm taking a class at Carlisle next month and just KNOW I'll be checking out the Wildcat or the other new one, but for now it's all good. I have residential NG and had one oxycon, but recently got another one.

[Lisi]

I was using my HH for 18 months and then about 7 months ago I made the switch to the Mini CC. I run this torch with an Airsep AS-12A generator and it's very hot, and I mean TOO hot sometimes! I'm talking about glass that drips off the mandrel like honey if you don't watch it! Since I got this torch, I've noticed that I get my work done twice as fast. Not kidding - what used to be 8 hours worth of beads, I can get the same kinds of beads done in 3-4 hours. Woohoo!! :-D

My generator puts out 15-18psi so it should run a bigger torch, I'm sure. I like the Mini for small boro (just getting started with boro), but I know I'm definitely going to need more heat for bigger stuff. A Phantom (with foot pedal control o2 for the outer fire) is a long way off, but right now I'm planning what I'm going to do with this year's tax return. I'm torn between a Barracuda or a Lynx, sigh.....so many options, it's driving me crazy. I need to try them out before I make a decision! My generator is good for the Lynx, but I'll have to check the specs on it and the 'Cuda.

The Mini CC has a pretty good adjustable flame and it puts out a lot of radiant heat which is good for long beads, vessels, and sculptures. It's doesn't have as sharp a flame as the GTTs and Beths, I don't think. Not sure, but it seems to me that those torches have a "sharper" flame which I would like for dots and stringer control. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please, lol! ;) :grin:

[JCHerrellGlass]

I

Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.

Brad, you are so smart!!! I never thought about an advantage to being underpowered. Right on. And I do hope you will let me come and help you set that new studio up. FUN!!!!!

[Corinabeads]

Okay, I hope that this post will be received in the way it was written: a gentil loving opinion - from the woman who owns and has worked on the following torches (yes, I STILL own them all! I can take pictures if you like!). I am listing them in the order I purchased them:

Nortel Minor Burner
Lynx
Bobcat
Isiheat
Piranha
Wale Firebird
Carlisle Mini CC
Carlisle Bunsen Burner
Hothead.

Are you impressed? Looks like a torch-vendors showroom in my studio. Here are my impressions/opinions. Sentences in Italics are "borrowed" from a variety of websites (thanks to ABR Imagery, Flametree Glass and Wale Apparatus). Hope you guys don't mind!

Minor: Pros: Always liked the Minor Burner, it's relatively cheap (around $ 169) , next to indestructible, most studios have it, so, if you work "away from home" you don't have to get used to a different flame type or temperature range. Very solid torch, can't tell about the customer service of Nortel, since it never broke down. The Minor Bench Burner is one of Nortel's most popular surface mix torches. Economically priced, the Minor allows professionals and beginners alike to work with power greater than the Hot Head. The small stature of the Minor is standarized for making beads, marbles and small sculptural work. The Minor accommodates flame sizes from approximately 1/8" to 3/4" diameter. Bought about 5 of those over time to give to friends. Cons: the barrel gets hot and I can't rest my hands on the torch, which I like to do to steady my hands when applying dots.

Lynx: Seven jet, triple surface mix torch. Perfect for lampwork bead making, with hard or soft glass! This torch is a little powerhouse! G.T.T.'s creation of their patented Triple Surface Mix Technology makes their torches hotter (Getting more BTUs out of propane than any other oxygen/propane torch on the mareket today, even a higher BTU output than oxygen/hydrogen torches is achieved with this technology. These torches burn cleaner, and have more flame characteristics than any other torch on the market today. This is the first triple surface mix size in the line up of G.T.T.'s triple surface mix torches, and serves as the center fire for all the larger two and three stage G.T.T. torches.
I bought the Lynx (which at about $ 435 is on the expensive side) because I learned to make miniature paperweights from Loren Stump and thought that I would need a torch that is able to get a very small sharp flame. After my class, I never made another mini-paperweight, so, that feature of the Lynx was not important to me. Pros: very quiet torch that gets very HOT if you want it to. Great for Boro-work, if you have the bottled oxygen to back it up. The torch is very cold, great for steading those hands on. Con: While I love my GTT (Glass Torch Technologies, manufacturer, the two most adorable twins in the world, Willie and Wallie) torches, they have several "issues". In the first 6-8 month, depending on how much you work, the valves re-adjust themselves...I think it has to do with the material that is used, it expands for a while, until it's broken in. That means, you have to add propane or oxygen while you work, because the flame gets smaller and smaller. That takes some getting used to, but no big deal. The major drawback for me was the fact that the Lynx does not like the kind of small flame I use to work with, so the torch "cloggs up" after a while. You see small glowing dots forming on the top of the torch, which I think is a carbon build-up, stemming from the fact that the propane does not get burned properly when the flame is too small. Talked about this with Willie, and he basically told me to turn the flame up - the center flame (the cones) should be at least 1/2 inch long. If I turn my torch up that high, the flame is way too hot for my taste...So, I kept running it on a small flame, with the result that my jets got dirty and I had to send the torch in for cleaning. Willie and Wallie are great guys, but they are not the most organized, so, in order to have a "back-up" torch while they were cleaning my Lynx, I bought a Bobcat. Which brings me to the next "review":

Bobcat: Seven jet standard surface mix torch for beadmaking and small to medium borosilicate work. Retails for about $ 195.
Same pros and cons as the Lynx...basically, as long as you don't turn on the second oxygen valve on the Lynx, the Bobcat and the Lynx are the same torch! With the same issues...so, now one of my torches is always at service at GTT - the Bobcat is still out of my hands, I think Willie and Wallie have forgotten to send it back, which I JUST realized. Better give them a call.

Isiheat: This is one of the few torches I received for free. It's manufactures in Germany by a company named Arnold, and it was named after "Isi", a German beadmaker and supplier for glass and tools. The only torch I truely dislike, the flame is horrible, it "spills" over the tip of the torch, but it could also be that the model I received was faulty...maybe that's the reason why I got it for free. I never ever mentioned that torch on my website...but since I wanted to give you the entire range of my collection, now I said it! Sorry Isi, I don't mean any disrespect to your baby. It was initially meant to be an economic torch for the German market, since the Minor that was typically available in Germany ended up costing over $ 250 once it arrived at the German suppliers (taxes, duty, shipping etc.) - but somehow they must have miscalculated, since the price of the Isiheat was consequently raised and now it costs more then the minor. No reason whatsoever to buy this torch.

Piranha: Made in the US by BETHLEHEM. A fairly new torch that is supposed to cater to the people who use the Minor. Was highly recommended to me by a friend in Florida (Heather Ferman) - so I bought it when it was on special at Art Glass House. I think I paid about $ 190, usually it sells for around $ 250. It's surface mix torch for working soft or borosilicate glass with 6 ports in a pentagon shape. The Piranha has a versitle flame size from needle sharp up to 15mm in diameter. The face diameter is 3/8". This torch can be removed easily from its base to be used as a handtorch or lathe burner. I used it once, and I didn't like it because of the BODY size. For the flame size the torch is really big and "bulky" - and I couldn't get my hand close enough to the tip of the torch. So, there is nothing good or bad that I can say about working with it, it's a personal choice, I think a guy might like this torch better BECAUSE of the size. It's a little "macho"....

Wale Firebird: Small bench burner with nine fuel tubes. This small bench burner has two different diameter propane tubes and square oxygen holes.
It has hardened, spherically shaped valve stem tips, lapped to a 00 micro inch finish...
The FIREBIRD was designed specifically with the needs of the artistic and scientific flameworker in mind. A multi-purpose torch, it will work both soft and borosilicate glass with ease. The torch is surface mixed yielding you a very safe, quiet and versatile flame. All of its critical components are made of stainless steel. Don't be fooled by its size! Because of Wale's unique design on this burner you will be amazed at the size of borosilicate glass you can work. You can obtain virtually any flame diameter from a small pinpoint to a soft bushy annealing flame. I bought this torch directly from Wale...(speaking of that, I think the deal I made with Mike DeMasi is that if I like it, I keep it and pay for it, if I don't like it, I send it back...I haven't used it much, so, I think I have to make up my mind what to do about it. Basically it is similar to the Lynx/Bobcat, can't tell whether it has the same "issues", but I think it might be a little less "fickle", though I haven't used it enough to tell. The price is around $ 245, so, it's a little on the expensive side.


Bunsen Burner: Carlisle's Bunsen Burners are manufactured from brass and are nickel plated. The Bunsen Burner bases are manufactured out of steel. Designed for use with Propane. The Bunsen Burner #130 is the largest of the single head Bunsen Burners available from Carlisle MachineWorks, and comes equipped with a heat intensifying head made of perforated metal - allowing for a very stable and broad flame. 8 3/4" High with a base width of 3 1/2". Integral Hose adapter that fits from 1/4" to 3/8" ID hosing included. I bought this torch after my workshop with Lucio Bubacco, haven't used it yet, but I don't plan to use it for making beads, but to build a "miniature glory hole", by building a simple "housing" with firebricks and putting a steel plate on top (Lucio is using the steel plate from his mother's iron! Very stylish.) We used this setup to preheat parts that we wanted to apply to beads, and the space between the torch head and the steelplate is a wonderful heat to gently heat the entire bead without getting a lot of direct heat onto the raised detail. For people who make huge beads this might be a great little addition on their workbench. All you need is an extra propane tank, not even a regulator, so the investment is minimal, since this torch sells for less then $ 100...

Carlisle Mini CC: When Carlisle first set out to create the Mini CC, their goals were simple. Create a burner that is suitable for producing soft glass beads and smaller borosilicate work, that featured the durability that Carlisle is well known for. When the Mini CC went from concept to production, Carlisle found that they had produced a burner that boasted a new flame profile that is revolutionizing the soft glass torch market.

Using a very different flame pattern from many of the other torches in its class, the Mini CC presents an extremely hot flame that is also very bushy. This bushy flame creates a soft working environment that also provides superior radiant heat, giving the ability to work with larger soft glass pieces with a reduced chance of thermal shock. With a versatile flame atmosphere that can be set for reduction, neutral or oxidizing flames, the Mini CC presents a quick and easy way to produce the many color effects of today’s glass artist. The raw firepower of the Mini CC is quite impressive, and capable of working borosilicate glass for beads and small sculpture.

Built with a very durable design, the Mini CC features a brass housing, stainless steel tube matrix of 7 fuel gas ports, and a stainless steel base with mounting holes. For the adjustment of the torch head angle, a ball joint is attached between the torch head and the base, allowing for 15 degrees of adjustment in any direction.

Carlisle continued to add to the allure of the Mini CC by offering a free Instructional DVD with every torch sold. This DVD not only visually shows the user how to achieve all of the many desired flames, but also incorporates 5 demonstrations by Doug Remschneider. This DVD rounds out the Mini CC as truly one of the most exciting
entry-level torches available on the market today. I copied this from Wale Apparatus website (www.waleapparatus.com), and there is absolutely nothing I can add to this description. It's my torch of choice! I have bought 15 of these torches so far, to use in my private classes, and almost every student bought the torch they have used. I get wholesale price from Carlisle and can offer these to people who are interested at a great price (less than the standard retail price of $ 189, which I won't say in public because I don't want my wholesale friends to think that I am trying to undercut their business...) I love my Mini CC, one of those "C"s might actually stand for CORINA....

Hothead...no comment on that one right now...there is a separate thread on this torch where all has been said.

As for the "usability" of these torches with Oxygen Concentrators/Generators: I use a generator myself (an Oxybox 15, which is relatively expensive at $ 2000, but I'm a "pro" and I need the extra umph it gives me. I can even run two Mini CCs at the same time, which is wonderful when I have a student over or a friend who comes to play. I also have a $ 300 refurbished medical concentrator (from www.suncoastbeads.com) - which runs both the Minor Burner and the Mini CC just fine (only ONE torch at a time though!).

My recommendation for beginners: Get a cheap concentrator and a Carlisle Mini CC or a Minor. If I had to make a choice between a Minor and a Mini CC, it would be the Mini CC, because the torch is QUIETER than the Minor, and the range of flame is wider...meaning, you can get a smaller flame and a wider flame both. And getting the DVD in the package is a great helpful bonus that is well worth the extra $ 20 you have to spend for the Mini CC. And no, I don't get paid by Carlisle to say these things...but hey, there is a thought!

[loco]

I started on a minor because of the frustration I had read from some HH users. I just recently got a mini cc and I love the flame it's hoter and bushier allowing me to work boro and it helps with the sculptural stuff I do. I have tanked O2 and am expecting delivery of 2 concentrators. I would love to try the Pirahna because it uses less O2, but that ain't gonna happen for a loooooooong time!

[barb]

I have both the Lynx and the Cheeta but I personally use the Lynx/Oxy+ Generator. This allows me to go back and forth in flame size.

Barb

[chrisdd]

:waving: Back at ya Chris!
Thanks for responding with just the kind of useful info I was looking for!
I'm not keen on the tanks, either.
Can you get a soft bushy flame with your minor?

I've never used anything but a Minor, so I don't know how the flame compares to other torches.

[LavenderCreek]

Great responses everyone, very helpful. I am currently on a HH but want to upgrade as soon as I can. I was considering a Minor, a Bobcat, a Piranha, an Isiheat (because it is made locally), or the Mini CC.

Thanks so much Corina for your review of the Isiheat. I was sort of leery about this torch to begin with, it is alot more expensive than the others but hey it is made here, you helped me rule that one out, I should always trust my intuition!

If the Piranha is that big and bulky, I don't want that either. I have a really small area to work in and a smaller more streamlined torch body would be a better choice for me. So maybe that one is ruled out also, even though I have heard some really great things about it.

Right now I am leaning more toward the Mini CC I think. I want a torch that will do well with only one concentrator, doesn't take up a whole lot of space on my table, and isn't fussy about my choice in flame size or shape. I will probably never work with boro so that isn't an issue. What I really want is the extra heat so I can work faster. Less noise would be nice too.

[chrisdd]

Fantastic! New info- "a bigger flame". This is a new idea for me and I think it may be important for my needs if it is useful for larger/longer beads.
The pinpoint flame of the minor seems great for smaller beads (or not?)
but I'm not sure about it for long/large beads.
Thanks Karen, and have fun torching tomorrow!

The longest bead I've made on my Minor is 2 2/4" long. I did crack one end, but was able to repair it. The pinpoint flame is good for detail work.

[Moth]

I was on a Hothead for almost 2 years.

When I was ready to upgrade, I did a LOT of research and a LOT of asking around.

I had decided on the RedMax.

I was so used to the slowness and coolness of the HH that I was intimidated by that much heat, AND money...so I bought a minor.

Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with the minor, but 7 months later, I wish I had gotten the RedMax. I am already wishing I had more heat.

Right now I am debating on whether or not to get another concentrator to boost the minor or to wait and get the RedMax (or some other heat pimp) after the holidays. OR both!

~~Mary

[Holly]

Dwaine,
This:
don't stick your tounge to it ;)
Plus this:
4155
equals snort-like giggle.
And I loves me a little back fur.
Thanks
Now... back to business, I have a lot to read here.

[Holly]

4157
You are scaring me.
It's awesome, but frightening at the same time.
OK- now I see the turn-on and the passion for fire.
It's kind of primal.
H

[Shawn T]

I was on a Hothead for almost 2 years.

When I was ready to upgrade, I did a LOT of research and a LOT of asking around.

I had decided on the RedMax.

I was so used to the slowness and coolness of the HH that I was intimidated by that much heat, AND money...so I bought a minor.

Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with the minor, but 7 months later, I wish I had gotten the RedMax. I am already wishing I had more heat.

Right now I am debating on whether or not to get another concentrator to boost the minor or to wait and get the RedMax (or some other heat pimp) after the holidays. OR both!

~~Mary

Mary,
This is exactly where I was, debatating on wheater I should buy another concentrator to boost my minor or buy another torch.

[Holly]

I confess...
My dirty little secret:
My fuel source for my HH is a one pound tank of propane, purchased in the camping department of Target for $3.69 for two tanks. One tank lasts about 5-6 hours. Wasteful? Yes. Efficient? No. Probably not cost effective either, I'm almost afraid to crunch the numbers. This is one reason I'm considering adding a sibling torch.

I'm at the tipping point. I can go along as I am, but opportunities are beginning to open up for me and I think I may want to get a little more serious about what I'm doing now.

Also,
UNCLE!!!
I give. I was going to respond to each post, but I do plan on doing other things today
so I will read and respond only as I am able. I am so thankful to all who are responding.

Since I am almost entirely visual I am considering making up some kind of chart with attributes of each torch to make comparisons easier for me to see. If such a thing already exists, I'd be happy if someone could direct me to it. Or, if anyone has suggestions for items of comparison I'd welcome them too.

H

[PyroChixRock]

Dwaine, you always have the BEST pics. Thanks for posting that! More men should wear womens panties, it's hot!

[loco]

And getting the DVD in the package is a great helpful bonus that is well worth the extra $ 20 you have to spend for the Mini CC. And no, I don't get paid by Carlisle to say these things...but hey, there is a thought!
Carlisle is also putting a GA "Self Paced Project Kit" in with each mini cc torch. It includes 14 5 inch (approx) rods of boro a working w/ boro color manual by Henery Grimmett, a catalog of Boromax colors and a nutral Flame card. Minimun value 10 buck, knowledge..... Priceless!

[ChristyPhelps]

I love my Lynx! I used a minor for over a year, but wanted more heat to work boro. I moved up to the integra10 concentrator when I got the Lynx, but it's the weirdest thing - it uses less oxy to heat than the minor did! I love having the ability to control my flame from bushy to pinpoint. I use it all the time.

The only downside is that I want to be able to run the torch from Natural gasline at the house, but the Lynx requires a gas booster, which costs over a grand! So now I'm reconsidering, but not much. I just love my torch.

[Dwaine Scum]

Dwaine, you always have the BEST pics. Thanks for posting that! More men should wear womens panties, it's hot!


My "manties" are the SHIT... Respekt!

[CorriDawn]

Moving this thread since it has some great info and is more easily accessible in the tips eechniques and questions forum

[bolimasa]

I was on a Hothead for almost 2 years.

When I was ready to upgrade, I did a LOT of research and a LOT of asking around.

I had decided on the RedMax.

I was so used to the slowness and coolness of the HH that I was intimidated by that much heat, AND money...so I bought a minor.

Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with the minor, but 7 months later, I wish I had gotten the RedMax. I am already wishing I had more heat.

Right now I am debating on whether or not to get another concentrator to boost the minor or to wait and get the RedMax (or some other heat pimp) after the holidays. OR both!

~~Mary

One thing you may want to consider... will that hotter torch require more oxygen??? When iI was considereing the midrange plus I got the distinct impression that it would take 2 concentrators to run the midrange part. If thats the case for your new torch of choice, maybe you should go ahead and get that 2nd concentrator now. If all works out I'll be getting a second concentrator next week... I'll let you know how it goes. I want the second concentrator because I often have reduction problems (gray crap in rubino... yuk) probably because I work to close to the torch head because I'm impatient. I'm sure it's easier for me to change my equipment than change my bad habits!

[Moth]

One thing you may want to consider... will that hotter torch require more oxygen??? When iI was considereing the midrange plus I got the distinct impression that it would take 2 concentrators to run the midrange part. If thats the case for your new torch of choice, maybe you should go ahead and get that 2nd concentrator now. If all works out I'll be getting a second concentrator next week... I'll let you know how it goes. I want the second concentrator because I often have reduction problems (gray crap in rubino... yuk) probably because I work to close to the torch head because I'm impatient. I'm sure it's easier for me to change my equipment than change my bad habits!

Yep, absolutely. That is why I'm wondering whether I should just do both. Go ahead and move forward with the second concentrator so that I've got it behind me for the next one.

I have been wanting to get another oxycon anyway so that I'm not SOL if the one I have now quits working or needs serviced. Right now, if the oxycon dies...I'm out of the loop til it gets fixed or replaced.

I have a reduction issue as well on my minor. I know it is from trying to run more propane than the amount of oxygen that I have can handle...but I just can't make myself turn the torch down. I have noticed that little by little, I have moved from a very modest flame when I first started with the minor, to a pretty good sized blaze. This isn't the right way to run this torch and I get a lot of carbon, which thank goodness it's a minor and I can just scrape it off and move on!

Something definitely needs to happen. Maybe boosting the torch I already have by adding some more oxy will placate me for a while. That way I could get a better pair of glasses while I'm at it and start heating some boro.

~~Mary
Who never thought she would turn into a flame whore but sees it happening anyway!

[Moth]

Those redmax pics have me all twitterpated!!!!

And thanks Corina for the great info. I loved hearing about the Mini CC. Maybe I will have to get one of those and try it out too!

~~Mary

[Holly]

Moving this thread since it has some great info and is more easily accessible in the tips eechniques and questions forum
Thanks CorriDawn!

H

[DesertDreamer]

I just had to add something. The Red Max ROCKS! I've gotten to use one at the Mesa Arts Center a few times (it's my toy of choice over there) and I love it! However, it's VERY hot. Quite honestly I think it's verging on too much if all you're going to use is Moretti. Even for Gaffer you've gotta work fast and be careful. My hands always end up "sunburned" and I keep feeling like my 12" mandrels (I work in the middle) are too damned short. OTOH, if you're using boro and/or working back & forth between hard & soft, I'd say grab it and run! You can always get a minor as the top mounted torch, though I prefer the premix that I have (which is way fun with a hush tip!). It IS a fuel and oxy hog, though. You need tanked oxy and gas, just no way around it.

Oh, one more thing. Got my Midrange Plus connected today. I'm now on NG and an Onyx+ generator. It's heaven!!!!! Quiet, hot and UNLIMITED! I'm soooo happy it's finally done.

[Vicki B.]

I'm new to this site and am looking to upgrade from HH to ??? Thanks so much to everyone for all the constructive information. Does anyone have a recommendation for a source of the Air Sep Generators that are mentionned in this thread? I've read only good things about Suncoast, but I don't see this generator at their site.

[Kaibeads]

yes the lynx = presicion, because of its pinpoint flame. Thats why I got one. It will also heat a big blob faster than other torches of the same size, like I say, I run it off one concentrator just fine.

[MaureenKennedy]

Well if you check my wordy response in the HH thread - you will see I have experience with the HH, National 8M, Minor, and Midrange. I like the midrange, because it has 25 holes in it's nozzle, which gives me a bushy flame. Running on one concentrator - it is not as hot/intense as the minor (which concengtrates all it's flame into 7 holes in it's nozzle). The National 8M has tip #7 which also had 7 holes. National 8 M has a variety of tips you can purchases seperately (usually $70 + up on each tip) and one with 21 holes, but this does not come with purchase of just the torch.

The problem I find with the minor (being an older person) is the only way to control the heat going into the bead, is to LIFT your arms up (like over your shoulders) to put the bead in the higher portion of the flame. I just cannot do this for a prolonged period of time without alot of hurting in my neck and shoulders. With the Midrange, I get the bushy flame which can be adjusted down to a pinpoint flame, and because the flame is expanded thru the 25 holes, it is a cooler flame and I can keep my bead in the flame without having to lift my arms up into the air. I understand that running the midrange on one oxy concentrator does not use the full power of this torch (people use it for boro with tanked oxy or two concentrators) but I have no desire really to do boro anyway - but I did buy a little boro to try it out and it melted the boro OK the way it is set up, just a little slower than it would have.

Hope this helps

[Erica]

I've only ever used a minor. When I took my first class, it was on a minor. When I was setting up my studio, I toyed with the idea of getting a HH because they're so much cheaper, but I wasn't sure that I could go back to using a slower torch after having learned on a hotter one. So, I stuck with the minor. I love it so far, can't think of a reason to get a different torch. Well, unless I take up boro, but that seems unlikely.

[Frostfire]

I worked on a HotHead sporadically for about two months. After the first two weeks I knew I wanted something bigger and hotter because I knew I was going to stick with this and I was finding the HH frustrating. I'd also in that time had a chance to work on a Minor for a day, so that just added to my frustration.

It took me the two months, but I got set up with a Piranha and an oxycon about a month ago. I didn't mind dealing with propane, but I did not want to have to deal with tanked oxygen, and the Piranha seemed to be about the happiest entry-level torch with a concentrator. I have a Creation Station so I don't need to worry about resting my hands on the torch body. I'm still very much in the learning stages, but it is a torch that I'll spend plenty of time growing into, instead of outgrowing quickly.

[Toni Lutman]

Hey Holly. You've probably already gotten all the information you'll ever need to make a decision, but I'll chime in anyway.

I used a Hot Head with the small Mapp gass canisters for about 6 months, and got tired of it freezing up on me. I bought a Bobcat and absolutely loved it. I initially used it with one concentrator, but I make big beads, so had gotten a second one after about a year. I used my Bobcat for several years and then took a class from Kim Osibin. She uses an Italian torch that is absolutely silent and has the softest flame I've ever seen. I'd kill for a torch like that, but I seem to remember her saying they weren't available anymore and if it ever went out on her, she didn't know what she'd do. Dang, it was a pretty flame!

Anyway, she highly recommended a Carlisle Mini CC as it was closest she had found to the type of flame she had on her torch. I was hesitant to make a change because I was so happy with my Bobcat, so she loaned me a Mini CC and I did eventully purchase it from her.

There were a couple of major differences that I noticed between the Bobcat and the Mini CC. One is that while the body of the Bobcat will stay cool, the Mini CC body can get pretty hot, so you can't rest your hands on it to steady them. I've also noticed that the Mini CC's knobs can get extremely hot if I don't have the oxygen turned up enough. This may not be an issue with tanked oxy, but with the concentrators, if I don't have the oxygen valve open completely, the knobs get hot. If I open them a bit more (no noticable change to the flame), the knobs stay cool.

The Mini CC also puts out much more radiant heat, so with it, I noticed that I could make my big beads much, much faster. It also makes it easier to work long beads. I will say this is kind of a drawback in the hot summer, so I made sure I had an extra fan blowing on me, but in the winter, it sure will be nice.

The other thing I've noticed is that there were some reduction effects I could get more easily with my Bobcat. I purchased y-connectors for both my concentrators and propane, so I'm going to have them both hooked up and available. It could be that I used the Bobcat long enough to know the flame chemistry I needed, and haven't found the right setting on my Mini CC yet, but ?

Hope something in here helps.

BTW, didn't get a chance to try your color suggestions yet, but I will soon. Thanks!

Toni

[kbinkster]

I would like to start off by stating that this is not a personal attack. This is about business. This is about setting the record straight and telling the truth where businesses are concerned.

Recently, something was written by a very well-known figure in the lampworking industry that was utterly false and struck way too close to home for me to let it go. What I am referring to is Corina’s recently submitted review of various torches, particularly what she had to say about GTT.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4906&page=2

Her statements concerning GTT are nothing short of fraudulent and are defamatory in nature. GTT will not stand by and let false accusations go unchallenged, and neither will I. Like I said, this is not a personal attack. Rather, it is a rebuttal of sorts, presented with the intention of bringing out the truth.

Corina describes her problem with the Lynx.

The major drawback for me was the fact that the Lynx does not like the kind of small flame I use to work with, so the torch "cloggs up" after a while. You see small glowing dots forming on the top of the torch, which I think is a carbon build-up, stemming from the fact that the propane does not get burned properly when the flame is too small. Talked about this with Willie, and he basically told me to turn the flame up - the center flame (the cones) should be at least 1/2 inch long.

Willy routinely advises people on candle lengths. There are perhaps a half dozen posts on the glass forums where I, with Willy’s help, describe the candle lengths needed to run a Lynx. I have listened to Willy describe candle lengths to people both over the telephone and in person. He is quite consistent with his advice. I have never heard him advise people that they should run their candles at least ½ inch in length. He tells people that the shorter the candles they want to run, the more blue tipped they need to be. He says that a good length is about ¼ inch, “about the diameter of a Morretti rod.” O.K., so what Willy routinely says does not match what Corina says he told her. That in and of itself may not seem like such a big deal… but it goes on.

Corina continues to discuss her problems with GTT’s torches and describes her problem with GTT’s customer service.

So, I kept running it on a small flame, with the result that my jets got dirty and I had to send the torch in for cleaning. Willie and Wallie are great guys, but they are not the most organized, so, in order to have a "back-up" torch while they were cleaning my Lynx, I bought a Bobcat...so, now one of my torches is always at service at GTT - the Bobcat is still out of my hands, I think Willie and Wallie have forgotten to send it back, which I JUST realized. Better give them a call.

Over all the years Corina has run GTT torches, she has sent her Lynx in once (10/01/2002) and her Bobcat in once (06/16/2004). Willy and Wally have the shipping records for every torch that has ever been sent in – since 1997 (and Corina says they are disorganized?). This is certainly contrary to her statement that one of her torches is always in for service at GTT.

Further, Corina claims that GTT has her Bobcat and has forgotten to send it back to her. This is completely untrue. As of today’s date, September 28, 2005, there is no Bobcat of Corina’s at GTT. Corina, you had better find a tracking number for that torch. You’re going to need it – for more than just tracking that torch. While you’re at it, you might as well dig up all the shipping records for all the times you allegedly had to send a torch back to GTT. The guys are still waiting for that call she said she would be making.

Well, this wouldn’t be the first time Corina has been caught in a lie. After accusing Cindy Jenkins of pirating her rainbow bead photographs for a tutorial in Beads of Glass, she posts an email from Cindy reminding her that she sent in a six page submittal for the tutorial (including photographs) three years ago. You know, there are laws against a business telling lies about another business. If all Cindy Jenkins chooses to do is gently remind Corina that she did submit the material, she is being far too kind. Other companies may press the issue further.

By saying that Willy and Wally are not organized and that she had to buy a back-up torch for when her Lynx was out-of-service, she is implying that (1) her Lynx was out of commission for a great deal of the time, and (2) it takes forever to get a torch back once it’s sent in for a cleaning. She even goes as far as to say that they have one of her torches right now and probably forgot about it, which is an out and out lie. She is defaming GTT by making false claims regarding the quality of their torches and the quality of their customer service. When a company (including its representatives) defames another company, it is serious business.

I have a simple question. If Corina has so many torches at her studio, and GTTs have “issues,” then why would she buy another GTT for a back-up? Perhaps it wasn’t bought for the reason she claims, after all.

Isn’t it funny that certain people/companies do not have “issues” with other people or things until they don’t get their way about something? Certain people/companies never had “issues” with GTT until they were denied a distributorship and started selling other torch brands. Hey, I understand that you have to sell what you have to sell. But come on, it’s so transparent. You should let the product you sell stand on its own merits rather than tear down the competition (in this case, GTT).

Corina now has an established pattern of how she treats people when she does not get her way. Look at Kim Neely and Paul Stankard, for example. There were no accusations of Kim copying Corina before Kim refused to contribute tutorials for the “Spotlight.” Now, Kim’s name is mud. Poor Paul Stankard, a highly respected man who has selflessly contributed so much to the lampworking industry, is attacked when he politely declines Corina’s invitation to participate in another of her ventures, the “Flame Guide.” So, I guess now it’s GTTs turn.

The motive behind Corina’s attack on GTT is very clear. Just read what she writes.

I get wholesale price from Carlisle and can offer these to people who are interested at a great price (less than the standard retail price of $ 189,…

Yes, Corina asked to be a distributor for GTT and was denied. She never had any “issues” before she was politely denied distributorship. And think about it… why would she even want to sell them if they didn’t work for her?

Yes, Corina now sells the Mini CC, Carlisle’s torch that, according to their sales rep at the Gathering in Portland, would sew up the bead market for them. This is now her torch of choice and GTTs are nothing but trouble.

Follow the money. I’m sure the situation would be different if GTT had agreed to take her on as a distributor. Like I said earlier, you have to sell what you have to sell.

If this was simply a case of one bead maker giving advice to another, that would be one thing. BUT, Corina is in business (including, it would seem, the business of selling torches). Heck, she IS a business, or at the very least a representative of the business she runs. And, businesses fall under different rules than individuals. She is a teacher and an author of instructional material, as well. She has a lot of influence over new bead makers (as well as some who have been around for quite a while). The things that she says are often taken as fact, and go unquestioned by these new bead makers. So, this is why I felt that I needed to come in and set the record straight.

It’s a shame that it had to come down to this. No one wants to hurt Corina or her business. But, it wouldn’t be right to let her lies stand as fact. I’m sure a public apology and retraction would go a long way. GTT is waiting to see Corina’s response before deciding what course of action to take.

[Cheerin]

???

[kbinkster]

The post I made was originally in it's own thread in the Family Room. Corri moved it into the Tips and Techniques section and merged it with this thread.

[candygeek]

Welp, I intend to stay out of the debate about Corina's review :-# but I will chime in on my experiences with the Lynx and the Cheetah.

I used the Lynx for 2 years, loved it, never had a single problem with it. I used the cleaning tool a few times, but I never really needed to. It was more of a maintenence thing. I used it with a propane tank and 1 oxy concentrator, or a oxy tank if I wanted more oomph.

I bought a Cheetah, loved it, no problems with it. Same deal. High quality torches with nary a glitch. I realized that I probably should have bought a Phantom for what I wanted. So for now I am back to the Lynx (looking for a second concentrator) until I get up the cash for a Phantom and a generator. :biggrin:

[pam]

I think I would like to chime in here. I have used a Minor, Bethlehem Starfire (now Barracuda), PM2D, and now a Cheetah. In between I have used a friend's Mini CC, an early one, and a Lynx. All the torches are good, but it depends on what you are wanting to do. Radiant heat is not necessarily a good thing, and not necessarily a bad thing either. It all depends on you getting used to working with the torch you have. The Minor was great, but a little small for the beads I make. The Starfire (Barracuda) was a fantastic torch, but not great for working larger Boro. The PM2D was great for working large boro, but the center flame was too small for my beads and adding the outer flame was too large. The Cheetah is the perfect size for what I do the way I do it. The Bethlehem torches all seem to have a more reductive flame atmosphere which lends itself to getting easy reduction reactions, however, it also reduces other colors that you don't want reduced. The GTT torches have a more oxidizing atmosphere which allows for beautiful pure colors and you can still get a really wonderful reduction with them. Because I like pure colors and work frequently with reduction flames, the GTT is my torch of choice. I personally don't care for radiant heat in how I work. My beads have been as long as 5 to 6 inches and I can work them fine on the Cheetah. Radiant heat is not necessary, attention to the heat the glass needs is.

What this all boils down to is that you can buy almost any torch and make it work for you, you just need to put in the time and have the patience to understand fully the torch you are using. And just to remind everyone, you don't have to keep a torch forever, there is a BIG market out there for used torches. So, Holly, if you buy a torch and discover it is not for you, you can always sell it and buy another one.
Pam

[MikeAurelius]

There is a very easy way to tell if you have a "proper" flame on your torch. And all you need is a short piece of glass.

If you don't work boro, find a friend (or call me) and ask for a 6" piece of Glass Alchemy 987 Amazon Night.

Heat the end to a warm orange glow and allow to cool.

If your flame is neutral, the rod should be the same color coming out of the flame as it went into the flame.

If the stick is light sky blue or has a metallic sheen, the flame is reducing and needs to be adjusted The most common fix is to decrease the propane content.

1. If the surface of the glass looks like an oil slick, decrease the propane at the torch.

2. If the surface of the glass is a heavy metallic, decrease the regulator in 1/4 pound increments and retest.

3. If the surface of the glass is sky blue, it is very reducing. Decrease the propane at the regulator, usually in half, meaning, if you are running your propane at 5 pounds, reduce it to 2.5 pounds.

Courtesy of Glass Alchemy.

Reducing flames, especially highly reducing flames cause carbon buildup on the torch face and fuel gas tubes. Excessive buildup will cause hot spots which will cause turbulence at the tube end eventually causing erosion of the tube end.

[cghipp]

Kimberly, what's the Bullet Burner like?

Courtney (trying to be talked into something)

[Jalve's mom]

I am a newbie who has been using an HH for about six months and am ready to move up for various reasons. I used a bobcat at a class I took in Orlando and liked it very much.

I had decided to purchase one but found this discussion and now have questions.

I will be using an oxy con (gift form DH) & propane and want to purchase a torch that will work well with this setup. Someone had suggested the Mini CC but I am a little concerned after reading about the torch & knobs heating up. This is probably one of those areas where there is no wrong choice & the cost isn't a huge factor so how do you choose especially when you can't really go and try all of them?

So far I am making beads with soft glass but love some of the boro work that all of you incredibly talented people display on LE and want to be able to work with it also.

Carol

[Corinabeads]

Who came up with the stupid idea that I tried to be a distributor for GTT??? That's total bullshit, sorry!

[cghipp]

That's good to know. The flame size looks a little more manageable to me than the Barracuda. One of the things I don't like about the Barracuda is that the center fire if too small and the outer fire is too large. I think I would like this better.

Courtney

[Corinabeads]

Kbinkster - who the heck ARE you??? isn't it interesting that people who have bad things to say always hide, never tell WHO they really are? Again, I have to repeat that I have NEVER ever applied to be a distributor for Willie and Wallie, I am not a distributor for ANYTHING except my own tools. So, wrong. As for Cindy Jenkins, wrong again, I submitted a tutorial, but not the one she used...I set that straight on my website.....
So, quit accusing me, because your jealousy is WAY too obvious...
I never said that GTT torches aren't good, I just said that they don't work for MY work...I am completely aware that I am running a "wrong" flame on the Lynx/Bobcat...which is why I quit using them. As for the reason I bought a Bobcat for backup - that was a year after I bought my Lynx, and I just trusted Loren Stumps judgement, he loves all GTT torches - but he does completely different work. The only reason I got wholesale prices from Carlisle is because I bought a bunch for my studio, and every student who used the torch wanted to buy it and take it home... GTT never ever offered my a discount for their torches, I even bought one as a birthday present for my then-friend Catt - and paid full price. I am neither badmouthing GTT torches, nor am I promoting Carlisle because of personal business interest. EVery single beadmaker I have talked to who has used the Mini CC loves it.... Torches are only as good as the purpose for which they are used...So, just READ what I say, pretty please...and if you have an issue with me KBINKSTER, take it up with me in person, you know where you can find me, which is more than I can say about YOU....

[DarleenMB]

I started out on an HH and just didn't like it (my first class was using a Minor, so no wonder).

I used the Minor for about 4 years and then a couple months ago got a MiniCC. I absolutely LOVE that torch! I run it with 2 oxy concentrators. Boy, does it melt the glass fast!

[kbinkster]

Kbinkster - who the heck ARE you??? isn't it interesting that people who have bad things to say always hide, never tell WHO they really are?
Well, my name is Kimberly Stark, as I see you have already discovered. I’m not hiding. If you were a contributing member of any of the internet glass forums (aside from your occasional appearance to promote yourself or stir up trouble), you would know who I am.

Again, I have to repeat that I have NEVER ever applied to be a distributor for Willie and Wallie, I am not a distributor for ANYTHING except my own tools. So, wrong. As for Cindy Jenkins, wrong again, I submitted a tutorial, but not the one she used...I set that straight on my website.....
Well, according to Willy and Wally, you asked to sell GTTs when you were first setting up your studio and entertaining the idea of selling tools, roughly a year and a half to two years ago, or so. They told you then that they were not taking on any new distributors at that time. That’s all there was to it.

You say that you are not a distributor for ANYTHING except my own tools.
Well, then why did you say:
I get wholesale price from Carlisle and can offer these to people who are interested at a great price (less than the standard retail price of $ 189, which I won't say in public because I don't want my wholesale friends to think that I am trying to undercut their business...)

And about Cindy Jenkins, you originally claimed that you did not know where Cindy obtained the photographs. Now, you say that they were taken with your low resolution camera.

So, quit accusing me, because your jealousy is WAY too obvious...
Girl. Please. Is that your patent response to everyone who stands up to you?

I never said that GTT torches aren't good, I just said that they don't work for MY work...I am completely aware that I am running a "wrong" flame on the Lynx/Bobcat...which is why I quit using them.
The point of contention was not that you were claiming that GTT torches were bad torches. You described a flame and said that it was unattainable on a GTT. But more importantly, you went on to say that Willy and Wally were disorganized and have a torch of yours in the shop right this very moment and that they had even forgotten to send it back to you. But this is where your post gets confusing. On the one hand, you say that the Mini CC is your torch of choice. On the other hand, you claim so, now one of my torches is always at service at GTT.
If you aren’t using GTTs, then why is there always one in the shop for service? Pick a story and stick to it.

As for the reason I bought a Bobcat for backup - that was a year after I bought my Lynx, and I just trusted Loren Stumps judgement, he loves all GTT torches - but he does completely different work.
Now, see, this is another sticking point. Did you buy your Bobcat first, or your Lynx?

The only reason I got wholesale prices from Carlisle is because I bought a bunch for my studio, and every student who used the torch wanted to buy it and take it home...
Getting wholesale prices on a torch and selling those torches makes you a …guess what… torch distributor (and a Carlisle rep). Ding, ding, ding!!! That’s right, Johnny, we have a winner!

GTT never ever offered my a discount for their torches, I even bought one as a birthday present for my then-friend Catt - and paid full price. I am neither badmouthing GTT torches, nor am I promoting Carlisle because of personal business interest.
That’s right. You were not compensated in any way for your glowing comments about GTT. Those were honest opinions.

But, you are badmouthing GTT, now. Period. That is the whole reason for my original post. Re-read what you wrote. And then, re-read what I wrote. I have no personal interest in you or anything that you do – UNTIL IT INERFERES WITH MY LIFE. And, this ties back into who I am… I see by your website blog that you have figured that out.

Willy and Wally are two of the nicest guys in the world. They have worked very hard building their business. When someone comes in and starts lying about them, their customer service, or their products, you can bet that they won’t take it laying down.

EVery single beadmaker I have talked to who has used the Mini CC loves it.... Torches are only as good as the purpose for which they are used...
That’s great. I’m all for freedom of choice. But, you don’t have to tear down one product in order to sell, uh, I mean praise another.

So, just READ what I say, pretty please...and if you have an issue with me KBINKSTER, take it up with me in person, you know where you can find me, which is more than I can say about YOU....
Well, you obviously know how to find me, as I have my PM feature enabled. In fact, I received your PM, foul language and all. Why don’t you go back and read what you said? Pretty please. You were the one to bring your lies about GTT into the public forum (and if you forgot which lies I’m referring to, re-read my original post). I answered them like for like. I only used your own words. If you had taken up any “issues” you had with GTT, its customer service, or its products in person to begin with, I would have never had to say anything at all. You have the record for taking personal matters up before the court of public opinion. And then, you use your blog to you beat up your adversaries when things don’t go your way in the public arena.

Oh, and about that Bobcat you claim GTT has… In your conversation with Wally today (10/03/05), you never made mention of it. Aren’t you concerned about its whereabouts? Who is calling whom unorganized? If you don’t have time to track it down yourself, give us the tracking number, we’ll try to find it for you. GTT does have a shipping assistant, after all.

And since you are so concerned about Willy and Wally speaking for themselves, here’s a message straight from the guys:

We don’t go looking for fights. When somebody puts out false accusations against us, we will not stand for it. We’re going to defend ourselves. We would like a retraction of the false statements she [Corina] said about our company and us. And, we would like a public apology. It’s that simple.

Look, Corina, this has gone on long enough in the public arena. I don’t want to cause any more division on this forum. It is not good for anyone. If you have anything else to say to me, you have my PM. It has always been enabled. Take it up with me in private and leave the membership here on LE alone.

[MikeAurelius]

-- My point has been made, and hopefully there will not be a need to repeat myself --

[pam]

What is happening to our glass beadmaking community? This community was supposed to be about helping, supporting and sharing with other people in the community. These forums came about as a result of people who love the community who want to give us all a place where we can share and support and help each other. In the last couple of years, and this year especially, it seems the glass beadmaking community is more interested in the almighty dollar than they are about a loving, supportive community. We seem to be more interested in copying others or accusing others of copying than we are about our art and helping others to learn. We seem to more interesting in getting ahead by any means, even if it is trodding on the backs of others in the community. Instead of tearing people or businesses down, we used to try to build them up. Is the dollar so important to us that we have let our community standards degrade to this point?

It's fine to argue opinions and issues, but attacking a person or people because of those opinions is tearing our community apart. Is that what people want, to be a divided community? Is it so important to get a larger slice of the pie that you don't care who you hurt? Is it so important to be right that it makes it okay to belittle another person?

Remember, glass beadmaking is an art form. The way you go about creating your art is a personal thing. Your opinions as to tools and equipment and glass and techniques is a personal thing to you and the way you create your art. There is no top and no bottom in our community. People who do really great work are admired and hopefully will share what they have learned on their travels in the world of glass beadmaking. There are no kings, queens, princes or princesses and there are no serfs. We are all equal in that we love glass and we each do the best we can in our art form. You may believe that you can learn more from one person than another, but again, that is personal to you. You may believe one person is a better beadmaker than another at any given point in time, but that is personal to you. It doesn't make that person a better person, just at that point they were a better beadmaker, in your opinion.

Who is to be admired? Well, my personal opinion, for what it is worth, is the one who unselfishly gives back to the community, the person who is always striving to do no harm, the person who is true to their own values and who honors the values of the community.
Respectfully,
Pam

[MikeAurelius]

Well spoken Pam.

[swamper]

For the record, I have a Bobcat - I find it to get hotter than the Minor and my control knobs are NEVER hot.

As for the rest - someone needs a nap...or meds..oh wait....that's me!

[WillfulOne]

:( The recent turn of this thread is very disturbing.

It is unfortunate that those of you with business interests or ties feel the necessity to ruin a very positive thread. Show a little respect to the rest of us here. I for one don't like the continuous exposure to these negative (from my view overly sensitive) public battles. I would appreciate it if you all (and I hope you know who you are) would take care of these issues in private. It does not matter who started what or where. Be the bigger person and and stop all of the public mud-slinging. I cannot figure out why some of the biggest names in this business want to associate themselves in such negative public displays. It is not just damaging one reputation.

I have been following this thread because I, like most of you, like to hear how these products have met with the needs of your particular glassworking style. Because a number of the members here also have business associations with other glassworkers, manufactures, etc..., there is going to be a blurry line between personal and professional opinion. To me they are one in the same. You are entitled to give it or not, just like everyone else. I am not a blind follower of the few, nor do I believe the rest of you are. I am an adult. I know that one person's experience is not necessarily going to be that of anothers. I don't think that we need to publically fight over them. I find these public 'cat fights' insulting and petty. I will take from opinions and experiences and do a little research then make up my own mind.

It is not in the best interest of anyone here to have this continue. What will happen is that people will stop participating because it will just not be worth risking one of you hijacking the thread over a perceived insult. Those of you looking for a good fight or looking to start a good fight, the bathroom is a good place. Because after all we like a good fight and at the end of the day we can be friendly again and the new-comers will not see how much BS goes on in here.


debbie

P.S.
I have a HH, Carslile Mini CC and a Nortel Minor. They have all worked well for me. The HH is a good beginer torch. I found it frustrating and restricted the color of soft glass I could use. The Mini CC is the second torch I purchased and I love it. My favorite. The only thing I do not like about it is that the oxy/gas knobs get very warm. I purchased the Minor because I wanted to find out why so many people like it. After 5 months of use i like it, I do not have any thing good or bad to add. I mostly make small glass beads used for jewelry.

[kbinkster]

Thank you, Pam, for your thoughtful post. You are absolutely right. We should be helping each other instead of tearing each other down.

Back to the topic of this thread:

When I started lampworking, I used to use a Hot Head. It was a great way to get introduced to melting glass (aside from the Bunsen burner I used in Chemistry). The Hot Head has many benefits.

It is inexpensive. If it were more expensive, I may not have been able to try lampworking to see if it was for me.

It is slow. I list this as a benefit because when I started out, working slow helped me. I learned better how glass moves. I also learned a little more about patience.

It is a real torch and can do just about anything - just maybe on a smaller scale. I have seen beads that are absolutely stunning and were made on a Hot Head. I believe that a true artist can make his or her tools sing. Of course, some tools are a lot easier to deal with than others, but what tools someone uses is a personal choice (like Pam stated above).

After a while, I decided that I wanted to melt larger globs of glass in a shorter amount of time than I was able with my trusty Hot Head. I also wanted more control over my flame. I wanted to add detail to my sculptural beads without melting other stuff in. So, I looked around and found the Lynx. I loved my Lynx and was very happy with it for a long time. I gave my Hot Head to a friend of mine who had taken a bead class, but was not ready to purchase an oxy/propane set-up. I was so happy that she could make beads and didn't have to wait. Her beads are beautiful, btw.

When I decided to work even bigger, particularly in boro, I felt that I needed a bigger torch. I still wanted the precision of the Lynx. So, naturally, I went with a Phantom. I gave my Lynx to my friend. She still used her Hot Head and after nearly a year, is just now getting that Lynx hooked up. I'm excited to see what beautiful beads she will be making on the Lynx.

So, there is my short story about the torches I have used and why. Oh, and just to clarify things, I bought my Lynx and my Phantom long before Willy and got together.

[Steph'sBeadCorner]

I have a HH and a Lynx. I used the Hot Head for about 3 months and decided I wanted something a little hotter.

I love my Lynx and haven't had problems with carbon build-up, except one time when I realized I didn't turn up the 02 enough. But after I adjusted it, it was just fine. It stays cool to the touch and I can get near the flame to work on small detail.

When I do demo's I take the Hot Head and don't mind using it for short periods. It really is a good torch, especially for those that don't have the financial means to jump to a more expensive one right away or aren't sure they want to pursue beadmaking.

I would like to try a mini-CC and add it as a 2nd torch... so if anyone is wanting to sell theirs (say one they bought for $120.00) just let me know!!

Steph

[cghipp]

I started out on a Lynx with one concentrator. I did have problems with carbon build-up due to low oxygen. I got a second concentrator and since then I've had absolutely no problems with build-up, even when I use a tiny flame to do things like make headpins. I love the heat of the Lynx and it's great for boro beads (tons of heat), but I have ordered a Mini CC to try to use for soft glass. For my working style, I need more ambient heat for longer beads than I can get with the Lynx. I am just not disciplined enough to keep putting the bead back in the flame. And I think I may be able to get better reduction effects with the Mini CC. After I've had a chance to try it, I'll post my reaction.

I've also used a Minor, briefly in my studio and frequently in classes. I've only used it for soft glass. I like it, and it's a very comfortable torch to work on, but I have found myself wanting more heat. That's probably more because I'm used to having it than because I actually need it.

Courtney

[nicholebeth]

I started out on a Lynx with one concentrator. I did have problems with carbon build-up due to low oxygen. I got a second concentrator and since then I've had absolutely no problems with build-up, even when I use a tiny flame to do things like make headpins.

I had the same issues with my Bobcat (that's my only torch right now)... I used to have to use that little wire that came with it to clean out the ports after each torch session, but that no longer is an issue, and I can't say for sure if the problem ended when I got my second concentrator (which is a good thing, because I can't find my port wires for the life of me!). I do regularly have to adjust my knobs because they slip, though. I can't even say that its annoying anymore, because I've just gotten used to it. But I'm not planning on getting a new torch anytime soon.

I started on the Hothead, and I'd list the benefits the same way Kimberly did... low cost, slow flame = great for beginners, or even experienced beadmakers that still want that slow flame. I even liked the loud "WHHOOOSSSHHHH" noise...

[Mr. Smiley]

What Pam said. :D

and I'm a GTT fan. I've got a Mirage and I love it. If I didn't work boro almost exclusively, I may have a Beth Cuda. I have worked on that torch and really like it. Like other people have said, it's a personal choice and there really aren't any bad torches out there. At least none that I have worked on. They might not be best suited for what I do, but they work great for somebody else.

Thanks for bringing this back on track and sharing the love! :love:

[CorriDawn]

I just want to state that some of the posts have been allowed to stay since they do contain valuable information. It may be opinion or fact, we don't know, make up your own mind. People should not be subjected to only one side of the story. Both sides have been heard now though, anything further posted in regards to if kbinkster or corina are right will be deleted. It is bringing down a very useful (IMO) thread.

[CorriDawn]

Also, I have a bobcat and LOVE it. run it on two concentrators. It does great. It seems to not like running as well off of just one, the ports tend to get more soot, but it is ok, I just prefer two.

I have worked on a minor and like the Bobcat better and love the sleek look!

[evenia]

I currently use a Lynx with propane and one oxycon. Occasionally I use tanked Oxy for larger Boro pieces. A second oxycon is on the way so I can return the oxy bottle - 80 cu-ft 'J' tank gives me about 8 hours on my Lynx with regulator set at at 5 psig. A refill is $15.00.

GTT makes some very high quality equipment. Their torches are very efficient and keep cool. Somewhat pricey but you get what you pay for. I love my Lynx because of the control it gives. With enough Oxy I can do a 1.5" Boro marble in a reasonable amount of time. I can also still use it for soft glass. So I guess what I'm saying is GTT Lynx = flexibility + capability + efficiency + quality.

I used a Hot Head for over two years and a Nortel Minor for one year. Each torch has it's advantages. I'd recommend baby steps as you advance your skills and equipment. Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.


Help me out here guys, what is a oxycon and why do you need more than 1?
Thanks and sorry if this is a stupid question...

[diana]

Also, I have a bobcat and LOVE it. run it on two concentrators. It does great. It seems to not like running as well off of just one, the ports tend to get more soot, but it is ok, I just prefer two.

I have worked on a minor and like the Bobcat better and love the sleek look!
Hi Corri Why 2 concentrators...I have read the threads where people use a Lynx with one oxycon and it works great and others are using 2 concentrators,,,is it the type of glass that you are melting or do you want more heat to meltthe glass faster? Thank-you for your help diana

[Vicki B.]

Soooo - as someone who wants to upgrade from a HH to, say a Minor, can you experienced guys discuss why someone chooses a concentrator over a generator or vice versa. What "pressures" (? psi or??) or whatever is a person seeking to run the next level torch (I think Minor, Lynx or mini cc) without having to invest in a second concentrator/generator in a year? I'm thinking only 90-104 coe at this time.

[barb]

The simple difference between a concentrator and generator is that the generator is more powerful.

Both have limitations and what you need really depends on which torch you decide to buy. The Minors, Mini-CCs, Bobcat and Lynx can all be run with one or two concentrators and all with one generator. I have been running my generator for a year without any problems.

I use the Oxycon+ Generator and a Lynx torch. The combination is perfect for the work I do which is small to medium beads and sculptural flowers. The Oxycon+ can run my Cheeta but not at full capacity of the torch. I use mostly Bullseye/Moretti/Check glass.

Barb

[Roseanne]

I have a bobcat & love it! It does not get hot so if the need be, you can rest your knuckles/fingers on it. I too had the same problem Nichole had with the carbon build up. Used one concentrator I purchased on ebay. I now have a newer concentrator and was planning on connecting the two (y-connector), but I kept blowing the fuses. So I decided to tryout just the new one, and you know what? No carbon build up at ALL!! I'm thinking my older concentrator may need some reconditioning;) I will most likely hook them together again, but first need to take the time to figure out the fuse thingie...

[Islandgirl]

Haven't read all the posts as my DH wants to check the tide tables....

All I can say is I pay $80 to refill my oxygen bottle think it's a K bottle (44lbs Oxygen) and I have to pick it up! (Actually my DH picks it up it outweighs me by about 40 lbs!) so to those of you that pay $5 or $15 hissssssss!!!! It lasts 20 -24 hours with a minor torch....

I started on a hot head, my husband stole that to weld with works great for outdoor plumbing repairs,

I have a minor on a concentrtor and one on bottled O2 they both get used big encased beads and BU get real Oxygen, everything else gets the concentrator, some things like hollows work better with the concentrator...

That is my two bits!

Lynne

[cghipp]

Diana - I know I've heard of one or two people using a Lynx with one concentrator and being satisfied with it, but in truth one concentrator leaves the torch greatly underpowered. Kind of like running a car on four cylinders instead of eight. I had to turn my propane pressure way down to make it work, myself. And then I found myself running out of heat when I need it, and clogging up in the middle of a bead. Adding another concentrator made all the difference. So I would say, if you want to work with only one concentrator you'd be happier - and have less trouble - with a smaller torch.

Courtney

[diana]

Diana - I know I've heard of one or two people using a Lynx with one concentrator and being satisfied with it, but in truth one concentrator leaves the torch greatly underpowered. Kind of like running a car on four cylinders instead of eight. I had to turn my propane pressure way down to make it work, myself. And then I found myself running out of heat when I need it, and clogging up in the middle of a bead. Adding another concentrator made all the difference. So I would say, if you want to work with only one concentrator you'd be happier - and have less trouble - with a smaller torch.

Courtney

Courtney Would a smaller torch be a Bobcat??

[KristiB]

Dang! (sticks finger in ear) is someone yelling in here??

I took one lesson on a minor and was told by my instructor Leah Fairbanks to buy a minor because I could grow with it. I've done a LOT on my minor and I love it. I used it with a concentrator and hated it. Didn't seem like there was any room to crank up the flame to make big beads so I stick with my tanked air. I keep 3 tanks.. 2 large and 1 small and air gets delivered to my door (the guys at Airgas like me 8) ) I've never had anyproblems with in the 3 years that I've had it.

I also own a Mini CC and I love it too.. I don't like how hot the knobs get but other than that, it give me more oomph to do some of the boro stuff. I've only had it a short time and I just go the crowley marver for it. I've got to get my other ventilation on that side before I crank up the boro production (insert hearty laugh)

One of these days I'd like to get a bigger torch and do some sculptural boro stuff, I talked to one artist who said the Phantom is the ONLY way to go, but I'd really like to try one first.

I tried a Wildcat at Glass Stock briefly and liked it. It would be great if there was a place to try out several different torches before you buy!



Kristi

[Islandgirl]

With respect to concentrators ... they are not all created equal, In order not to reduce my pink glass I have to turn the propane down so low I can pratically stick my finger in the flame... I have used other peoples torches that were on the same size concentrator but a different manufacturer, they seemed to have way more available Oxygen.... (grass is always greener scenerio!)

Someone asked about concentrators .... The refurbished medical ones are $200-$400 and the new bigger ones are $1530, which is why running two smaller ones is definitely an option. There is a thread on WC explaining that if your two concentrator are not equally 'powered' your output will only be as good as your weaker concentrator, however you still have the exttra oxygen available...

I keep thinking I need a bigger torch and was thinking lynx, nobody has said anything about it gettin hot does it? because I do occasionally rest on my marvering pad on the top of my minor, and have enough burns.... I'd like to start doing long beads 4-5 inch barrels ..... suggestions

Lynne

[cghipp]

Diana -

Yes, a Bobcat, Minor or Mini CC would all do much better on one concentrator than a Lynx.

Courtney

[diana]

Diana -

Yes, a Bobcat, Minor or Mini CC would all do much better on one concentrator than a Lynx.

Courtney

Courtney Thank-you for your help. diana

[cghipp]

You're quite welcome! If you still haven't gotten a concentrator, a friend of mine recently got a Caire Breeze from Precise Concepts/Hobbies for Us and it's much more powerful than her other 5 lpm concentrator (which I think is an Oxycon but I'm not sure).

Courtney

[KristiB]

Does anyone know anything about the Onyx+ generator/concentrator? Anyone have one, what sort of torch are you using with it?

It's supposed to output 20psi !!

[barb]

Kristi,

I have the Oxycon+ and use it with my Lynx. I have had it for one year and it runs great. There is a difference between using tanked oxy and using a generator but my work has improved using the generator. You should talk the vendors or go to their websites regarding specs. [I bought mine from Suncoast.]

Barb

[KristiB]

Kristi,

I have the Oxycon+ and use it with my Lynx. I have had it for one year and it runs great. There is a difference between using tanked oxy and using a generator but my work has improved using the generator. You should talk the vendors or go to their websites regarding specs. [I bought mine from Suncoast.]

Barb


Barb,

Can you elaborate on why you think your work has improved using the Onyx+? Also, what differences are there between the tanked air and the generator?

I talked to the rep last year at the Gathering, but they were rather new. I'm saving up pennies to buy one I think and will most likely buy it from Suncoast. Just looking for USER input vs. statistics.

Thanks for any opinions you can offer.

Kristi

[barb]

Kristi,

Have to correct my post - I have the Onyx+ Generator (I used oxycon by mistake).

I will explain this non-technically because my brain is non-technical. I am now used to the flame so I am trying to think back to my original transition.

The only real difference is the intensity of the heat. If you want to do boro or very very large beads you will get frustrated but you can do both. I have no problems with any technique that I can contribute to using a generator rather then tanked oxy [I do have problems with techniques but that's me].

The upside to getting a generator is convenience. I can't tell you how absolutely great it is to just walk into my studio, flip the switch (always cracking your oxy knob first and letting it warm up) and sitting down day or night to torch for as long as you want.

So, unless your work requires a lot of heat then I don't think you will notice a difference. I have never hooked up a minor to the generator but I should just to see how it works. The Cheeta isn't as happy because it does require a lot more ompfff then the Onyx+ can give it but then I find the Cheeta too powerful for what I do so I don't use it even with tanked oxy.

The biggest problem with trying to explain the difference is each torch is different and each artist works differently. There are those artists who prefer working on less intense heat and power and those who want more. The Onyx+ and Lynx is a great combination for those who don't want to melt the cover off of the ceiling lights.

Forgot to answer your first question. My work improved because it slowed down the melting process which allowed me to concentrate more on the details. My dots and stringer control were better, my shaping and details were easier and when I need to encase I just turn up the heat and I have no problem melting large rods. I have seen no difference in the colors or in reducing. I really can not think of one thing I do that I could do better using tanked oxy - except maybe raku frit but again that might be the artist??? Also, I have less shocking with the Moretti glass.

Barb

[KristiB]

Barb,

Thanks fso much for your answer. It helped me a lot. I use a pretty low flame most of the time for stringer work, but like to turn it up for some things. I'm hoping I can purchase an Onyx+ next year. (crossed fingers) But, I think I will still keep my oxy tanks for boro.

Thanks again, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

Kristi

Kristi,

Have to correct my post - I have the Onyx+ Generator (I used oxycon by mistake).

I will explain this non-technically because my brain is non-technical. I am now used to the flame so I am trying to think back to my original transition.

The only real difference is the intensity of the heat. If you want to do boro or very very large beads you will get frustrated but you can do both. I have no problems with any technique that I can contribute to using a generator rather then tanked oxy [I do have problems with techniques but that's me].

The upside to getting a generator is convenience. I can't tell you how absolutely great it is to just walk into my studio, flip the switch (always cracking your oxy knob first and letting it warm up) and sitting down day or night to torch for as long as you want.

So, unless your work requires a lot of heat then I don't think you will notice a difference. I have never hooked up a minor to the generator but I should just to see how it works. The Cheeta isn't as happy because it does require a lot more ompfff then the Onyx+ can give it but then I find the Cheeta too powerful for what I do so I don't use it even with tanked oxy.

The biggest problem with trying to explain the difference is each torch is different and each artist works differently. There are those artists who prefer working on less intense heat and power and those who want more. The Onyx+ and Lynx is a great combination for those who don't want to melt the cover off of the ceiling lights.

Forgot to answer your first question. My work improved because it slowed down the melting process which allowed me to concentrate more on the details. My dots and stringer control were better, my shaping and details were easier and when I need to encase I just turn up the heat and I have no problem melting large rods. I have seen no difference in the colors or in reducing. I really can not think of one thing I do that I could do better using tanked oxy - except maybe raku frit but again that might be the artist??? Also, I have less shocking with the Moretti glass.

Barb

[barb]

Kristi,

If you are not buying right away then you will probably get a better machine because not only are they making them better but the cost seems to be dropping. I did make a flower out of boro - I'll post a picture - just to see if I could [both make it out of boro and do it with the generator]....but I would definitely use tanked oxy and the Cheeta if I really wanted to play with boro.

Barb

[Mr. Smiley]

Barb, that is so cool. I had a picture of a flower I wanted to edit and post to show and tell... and your flower totally reminds me of it. I wonder if we made them on the same day??? :lol:

4973

[barb]

Brent,

I am so in love with that flower. I have been ignoring the boro because I am afraid if I acknowledge it's existence it will lure me over to the other side. I will be up for the Fall Festival so I'll get to watch you guys work with boro.

Barb

[Vicki B.]

Just wanted to thank all of you who are putting your constructive thoughts out there about concentrators/torches. From a HH user looking to upgrade, it's all pretty confusing. Here are a couple questions if you don't mind a new person asking about the level that most of you are now past.

1. If I purchase a concentrator and, say a minor or a mini cc, want to use 90-106 coe, what limitations do you think I'll face, in, say a year? In other words, will I find myself limited as to bead size mainly, speed of working, reducing capabilities, or primarily won't be able to graduate to boro work?

2. Any thoughts on specific concentrators working well with the minor?

I'd love to hear from those of you who have been working with the minor, can do fine detail, large (maybe 40 mm) focals, and don't have to spend an hour just to wait to melt. If this is not nicely feasible, any suggestions?

Thanks so much for your help.
Vicki

[cghipp]

Vicki -
I'm guessing you mean 4 cm and not 40? ;)

[Vicki B.]

Oh - yes! How much of a new person am I? I meant 40 mm. Maybe I should just say 1.5" bicone or such.

[cghipp]

It's well within the capabilities of the Minor to make a 1.5" bicone. I have a bead over four inches long that I made on one. (Of course, I wouldn't want to do that every day, on ANY torch.) Many of the beadmakers who make larger beads stayed with the Minor for a long time. If you go with a Minor, Bobcat or Mini CC and one concentrator, you can stay with that for quite a while and when you want more heat, add another concentrator. That will hold you for a good while, and if you go to a bigger torch you'll need two concentrators (or the equivalent) anyway.

Here's another thing I don't think anyone's mentioned: these torches all hold their value very well. If you do decide at some point to move up, you'll be able to sell any of these torches pretty quickly in one of the various Garage Sale/Swap Shop forums, and you can get between 60-75% of your original investment back.

Courtney

[KristiB]

Thanks Barb, that's good to know.. heh, heh,... wait long enought and the price goes down on everything except gas! If I had the extra cash, I'd buy it now. I"m just trying to be a good girl and not use credit cards :lol:

I love my minor.. I've made it SCREAM on tanked air. I did this a couple of years ago.. my first boro sculpture (so don't laugh) and it was too big for the kiln! I had to make it smaller.. It's about 9 or 10 inches tall. I was so proud when I made it and I look at it now and I'm embarassed.. guess I better get busy and try some more. ;)


Beautiful flower.. I love you stuff..

Brent, I love your flower too.. what color glass is the stem?

Anyway.. just wanted to show you that a minor on tanked air can make som larger boro stuff too..

[barb]

Kristi,

Why in the world would you be embarrassed - that is great. As much as I love soft glass there is nothing as compelling as boro.

I saved up for a year to get my generator and I really tried to justify paying so much money but I couldn't justify "x tanks = 1 generator" so I just had to accept that it was the convenience that I wanted.

Barb

[Mr. Smiley]

Kristi... that rocks! The stem on mine is double amber purple. ;)

Thanks for the kind words Barb. I can't wait to work with you at the fall fling. It should be a hoot. I guess I'll bring my tent and torch again. We'll play for sure! :D

[kbinkster]

Kristi, you boro piece looks very nice!

Brent and Barb, your flowers look cool, too. And it is funny that they do resemble each other in certian ways.

Just a quick note about concentrators/generators...

I played around with the Integra 10 and the Cheetah. I did a lot of soft glass beads of various sizes and some smallish boro stuff (like a 1.25" heart pendant) and had plenty of heat. I didn't try anything larger in boro. Willy made a 3.25" long mushroom bead out of soft glass without a hitch.

But I must say, that Millenium 10 custom did a good job at open torch at the Gathering and the cost was great. I believe Bill Brach now sells them.

The OGSI did a good job on the Cheetah at open torch, too. Anything that could power the Cheetah could easily power a Lynx.

One of these days, I am going to try hooking up two 10 liter machines to my Phantom - one for the inner fire and one for the outer. I'll give a report on my findings.

[Dreamcloud Designs]

But I must say, that Millenium 10 custom did a good job at open torch at the Gathering and the cost was great. I believe Bill Brach now sells them.

The OGSI did a good job on the Cheetah at open torch, too. Anything that could power the Cheetah could easily power a Lynx.

One of these days, I am going to try hooking up two 10 liter machines to my Phantom - one for the inner fire and one for the outer. I'll give a report on my findings.

Hi, Kimberly.

When you say that OGSI does a good job with the Cheetah, or you referring to the OG15 or another machine by OGSI?

Would you know if Bill Brach has a web site?

I'd be interested in your findings on running a Phantom with two 10 liter machines.

I have a Lynx with the OG15, but I'd love to add a larger torch.

Thanks for all the great info!~Leiza

[kbinkster]

Leiza,

OGSI is coming out with a new model. Fred unveiled it at the Gathering. I think it will run somewhere around $1800. They still had some modifications/improvements to make on it, so I don't know when it will be available.

I don't know offhand if Bill Brach has a website or not. I do know that he is an active member here on LE. You can usually find him in the safety and technical sections.

The Millenium 10 Custom is 20 psi. They have a new one that puts out 30 psi at 92-94% purity. It may be able to run a Phantom (or perhaps even a Mirage). Wally has the first prototype at the shop and he is going to test it out and see how it runs. There's even word that they will be coming out with a 50psi version.

So, hang on to your hats, boys and girls, it's about to get real interesting in the concentrator/generator world.

[Mr. Smiley]

Leiza,

OGSI is coming out with a new model. Fred unveiled it at the Gathering. I think it will run somewhere around $1800. They still had some modifications/improvements to make on it, so I don't know when it will be available.

I don't know offhand if Bill Brach has a website or not. I do know that he is an active member here on LE. You can usually find him in the safety and technical sections.

The Millenium 10 Custom is 20 psi. They have a new one that puts out 30 psi at 92-94% purity. It may be able to run a Phantom (or perhaps even a Mirage). Wally has the first prototype at the shop and he is going to test it out and see how it runs. There's even word that they will be coming out with a 50psi version.

So, hang on to your hats, boys and girls, it's about to get real interesting in the concentrator/generator world.


I saw the prototype and got real excited! I may not have to lug tanks anymore- Woohooie! :D

[Dreamcloud Designs]

Leiza,
The Millenium 10 Custom is 20 psi. They have a new one that puts out 30 psi at 92-94% purity. It may be able to run a Phantom (or perhaps even a Mirage). Wally has the first prototype at the shop and he is going to test it out and see how it runs. There's even word that they will be coming out with a 50psi version.

So, hang on to your hats, boys and girls, it's about to get real interesting in the concentrator/generator world.

A machine that would power a Phantom (or a Mirage) is really exciting!

I can barely keep my hat on. :biggrin:

Thanks for your reply!~Leiza

[Dwaine Scum]

Yesssss! Thank you! :grin: I keep hearing good things about the piranha and so far, I'm sold. Saving that link...where's my credit card?... :wink:


Hey anne, Generations glass (http://www.generationsglass.com/Torches.html) has the baracuda on sale right now for $695, and he has the piranha on sale too. Give Kristian a call, you will be pleased