Someone talk to me like a child. Etching question!!!

[Just Nancy]

OK. So I need to qualify that. :wink:

Every time I try etching my beads they end up nearly white. At first I didn't know I was to do anything after I take them out of the Etch~All other than rinse them off. Now I've read baking soda and water. How much and how long?

So like a child. How in the heck do I get a reasonable light etch. My stuff always comes out either untouched or like mush. :-?

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

I etch mine for about 10 minutes and wash them off with dish soap and a tooth brush. You have to clean them to get the white residue off.

~Suzy~

[Shawn T]

I only etch mine for about 5 minuets, than I wash them off and they soak in a milk bath after that. The milk will also stop the acid from continue from etch your beads.

[sislonski]

To get a light etch, i usually only have them in the cream for about two minutes top. The rinse them under warm water and wash thoroughly. Then wipe dry with a dry cloth.

[Just Nancy]

I just realized my stuff is called dip and etch if that makes a difference. But I bet I have old etch all in the basement from my regular stained glass.

I'll give it a try. What do I clean them with to get the white gunk off? I'll try some dishsoap if I haven't already thrown them out.

And those beads! Gasping, lovely.

[Moth]

I use the etch-all liquid. I drop the beads in and start the timer for 7 minutes. I keep rolling the etch-all bottle around during this time. When I take the beads out, I place them in a small bowl of baking soda and water. This produces quite a bit of fizzing, so I assume it is doing 'something'. Then, I scrub the beads with some dish soap and my old rotary toothbrush.

I have never gotten the white pitting or over-etched effect some people complain about.

~~Mary

[lunesse]

Where does one buy Etch all? Not online, like, go get some. Stained glass store?

I'm FREAKING IMPATIENT AND don't want to WAIT for OLINE SHIPMENT!

there, it's the bathroom so I got grumpy.

[rusticstudio]

they have it at the craft store

[sislonski]

Any craft store or Micheals, even walmart will have it in their craft section.

[Just Nancy]

I'm wondering if what I have is stronger than my Etch~All. And yes, I think lots of places carry that brand. As I recall it is in a white opaque plastic bottle with a blue label.

I'll try my 'Dip and Etch' and milk or baking soda and water (which I did but it never fizzed, wonder why).

Thanks.

[yeepers]

Maybe the stuff you have is weirdly super duper strong? I have Etch-All but it's the cream stuff not the dip and etch watery stuff. I can leave beads in it for 1/2 hour and it still comes out nicely etched. Never had white stuff or pitting.

Hope you figure it out!!

-Yee

[Just Nancy]

Yee,
Leave it to me to have the wrong stuff!

Even when I don't leave them in very long, I end up with white stuff. I mean less than 5 minutes. I thought everyone was going to tell me to only leave them in like 30 seconds or something.

I'm going to do samples tonight and try to find my old Etch All.
Thanks everyone.
Nancy

[sislonski]

Nancy, usually it will etch within seconds. If dipped rather than painted it will be more of an even covering, whereas painting comes out a little blotchy. But Yes, I don't leave mine in more than a few minuts. Basically I will start washing them all within a minute of dipping my last bead.

Baking soda? I would say that that is probably where you are getting the white from. I wouldn't use it. Whatever for?

Just dip in the solution and rinse in warm water within a few minutes.

[Julabula]

Thank God for this thread! I was beginning to think my etch all liquid had "gone bad" because that white residue is killing me!! (Glad to know it appears to, once again, just be my own stupidity...) :) Will try the baking soda and water trick....will also go buy a Crest rotary toothbrush! LOL. I've got the cream, but had such problems with the liquid, I haven't even tried it yet...sheesh! Goin' home tonight to etch and see what happens!!!

[sislonski]

You should rinse the etch cream or dip off before it starts drying. I've never used baking soda, but i would think that it would dry everything out.

I just rinse under water thoroughly until all the cream has been removed and when etching a raised design bead, I will actually use a toothbrush to scrub the cream out of the grooves.

Then roll all beads between your palms inside of a wet cloth. Then do the same to dry.

[MistyCherie]

The baking soda, like the milk, is used as a neutralizer the acidic effects of the etching solution.

I typically just put them in for a couple minutes, rinse and scrub under water with an old toothbrush. Hehehe. I should dig up the old rotary toothbrushes and use that (never even thought of them for this). Sometimes if I want a heavier etch I'll leave them in for longer. I use the Etch-All from Michael's. It's not cheap, so I'd get their 40% off coupon and use it to get a bottle. (Usually those coupons are in the Sunday paper ads.)

[DarleenMB]

wow. a child's garden of misinformation.

The cream is a PITA but use it if you like. I prefer the liquid. I have one of those cheap plastic food storage containers that is ONLY used for this. I put the beads in then pour in enough of the liquid etching stuff (and btw you should be wearing protective stuff at all times with this ... that means safety glasses or goggles and rubber gloves. I set the timer for 6 minutes (see label). I stir the beads several times with a plastic knife.

When done I carefully pour the liquid back into the bottle. Next I add a little water and a heaping scoop (about 1/4 cup) of baking soda. This NEUTRALIZES the acid in the etching solution (chem 101).

I then run water into the container until the fizzing stops and the water runs clear. Then I dry 'em.

The only time I seem to get the white crusties is on clear etched beads. After they're dry I use an old toothbrush to buff them off. I believe the stuff on mine is just leftover baking soda which is why I try to rinse them a LOT. Never seems to help though.

[yeepers]

Nancy,

I don't think it's a matter of having the wrong stuff. Just maybe stuff that's gone weird?

In any case, I just wanted to clarify....I usually string my beads up onto a piece of wire and dunk the whole thing into the container of etching cream. I do not paint the cream on as this produces spotty results at best! I can leave them in as little as 5 mins or as long as 1/2 hour (did this one time when I put them in and promptly forgot about them!) and never had any problems. When taking them out I have gloves on and just rub off as much as I can trying to get it back into the container and then I rinse well under running water.

That's it from me. Seems to work like a charm.

-Yee


Yee,
Leave it to me to have the wrong stuff!

Even when I don't leave them in very long, I end up with white stuff. I mean less than 5 minutes. I thought everyone was going to tell me to only leave them in like 30 seconds or something.

I'm going to do samples tonight and try to find my old Etch All.
Thanks everyone.
Nancy

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

Thank God for this thread! I was beginning to think my etch all liquid had "gone bad" because that white residue is killing me!!

I have dip N etch and it now comes with a date on it because it does weaken with time, and also with use. So it does "go bad". You were right!!!
I am moving this thread to the tips area, so it will be around for reference by others with the same problem.
Thanks!
~Suzy~

[Holly]

Hi Nancy,
Dip-N-Etch is hydrofluoric acid. It only takes a few seconds to etch when the bottle is new. The longer you use it, the less effective it is and it will take progressively longer to do the job.
***It is EXTREMELY toxic. DO NOT get it on your skin- you may not know if you are burned as it can have a delayed reaction. It also goes into your body and attacks the bones with prolonged exposure. It should have a giant skull and crossbones on it because it is deadly if used carelessly.

Now that I've scared the bejeebus out of myself :eek:, let me say I do use it myself and I dip the beads in a bowl of baking soda and water right after etching. I also brush them off with soap and water to get off the residue after that.

H

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

Wow Holly! Guess I won't be picking mine out of the etch with my hands anymore! YIKES!!!!!!!

THANKS!!

~me~

[Just Nancy]

Well, I've tried it with my dip and etch. I wonder if boro etches with different stuff. The label says 15 minutes. I'd been doing a couple minutes.

I decided to be extreme and went 15 seconds. Looks like it will be a nice light etch. I'm going to try more later tonight.

I didn't bring the jar in here but I think it says bifloride salts. My chemistry doesn't stay with me well enough to remember how close that is to hydrofloric acid.

Thanks everyone.

[Holly]

Wow Holly! Guess I won't be picking mine out of the etch with my hands anymore! YIKES!!!!!!!

THANKS!!

~me~


OMG! Please tell me you're kidding? Dip-N-Etch, not Etch-All?
Might be a good idea to do some research...
I'm not normally the cautious type, but with this stuff,
I am. You may not see the damage.

I didn't bring the jar in here but I think it says bifloride salts. My chemistry doesn't stay with me well enough to remember how close that is to hydrofloric acid.

I googled biflouride salts and came up with hydrofluoric acid. The person who sold it to me warned me very strongly to be careful and I didn't think it could be that bad so I looked it up. I just can't believe there aren't stronger warnings on the bottle if it's so dangerous. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think so...

H

[Holly]

Oh yea, boro... I thought boro can't be etched, it has to be sandblasted.
Maybe a boro person can chime in here?

H

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

Nope dip N Etch, am I gonna die?? sorta LOL! but not really...........
~me~

[finemow1]

Hi, I use dip and etch and I leave my beads in one and a half minutes and turn over for the same amount of time. I then soak them and wash with dish soap and water and rinse again. I get a nice soft etch. I used to leave longer but didn't get as nice a result.

[Just Nancy]

Thanks everyone. I'll admit I haven't been real careful with the stuff, but careful enough that I don't get it on my hands. I mean, if it does what it was doing to my beads in 5 minutes think of what it was going to do to my skin.

That said, I was only wondering why my label says 10-15 minutes but any think at like 5 minutes turns the beads just a little soft and then the look is really white deep etched. As I said the 15 seconds was much closer. I'll try a little more next time but at least the bead I etched yesterday is still pretty, useable, etc. The others went in the trash.

Thanks again everyone.

[Holly]

I hate to be a downer again but I think this info is important.
Etchall and Dip-N-Etch have the same toxic ingredient-biflouride salts
(ammonium bifluoride) It penetrates the body looking for calcium to attach to-
(your bones!) The pain may be delayed, so you might not connect it with your use of the product. It is recommended to use special gloves for working with acids- NOT household "rubber" gloves OR latex-type surgical gloves as the acid will penetrate them.
If you call the poison control center they can give you a complete and thorough picture.
Their number if anyone is concerned:
1-800-222-1222
The woman I talked to was very knowledgable and friendly.

Anyway, sometimes I dip the bead in brief intervals, rinsing and checking it's appearance to get a soft satin finish. Not quite shiny-not quite matte.
Tumbling is another alternative, but I don't know how it's done. I *think* Micheal Barley uses this technique (??), but I don't remember how I know this.

[Just Nancy]

Hmm. Tumbling in what? Interesting, very interesting.

Dang, I'm headed out to teach a stained glass class and my mind will be wandering ~again!

Nancy

[Holly]

Nancy, In a rotary drum tumbler:
I guess if it works with rocks, it'll work with beads.
http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa011803a.htm
It says it takes a month to do rocks (!!), I think beads take a few hours.
They have them at Harbor Freight for about $20

H