Call for Testers

[Listenup]

I need some testers to test out a suspicion/theory I have about Effetre 069 Electric Yellow. All I would like you to do is make me one or two beads using Electric Yellow in them and mail them to me. It can be either as a base color, frit or decoration. It can be as simple as 1 dot on a white bead or as complicated as you like. It can be left raised, melted in, overheated, boiled, pushed, pulled, pressed, encased or not, mixed/blended, twisted, whatever. It can be a wonkie or not - just have fun with this. I need you to keep detailed notes about what you did, what torch you used, annealed or not (and at what temp-etc.) and mail them to me so I can test my findings. Please include the notes about your bead, your Lampwork Etc. ID, and your business card if you have one (so I can tie it to the bead to help keep track of who did what). You'll find my address here (http://www.listen-up.org/product/purchase_listen_up.htm).

You don't need to sign up for anything - just PLEASE help me out with this and do it. You may even want to do 2 identical beads and keep one for yourself so if what I suspect happens with this color does, you can test it out yourself.

After I confirm my findings with yours and can tell you under what conditions it does or does not happen, I'll let you all know - but for now I need you to fly blind so the findings are not skewed.

What you'll get in return are my eternal thanks and gratitude, helping out with what could be a pretty important finding, knowing that you're increasing the knowledge base about this color, and a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Thanks!

[stacied]

I will check to see if I have the color and if I do I will certainly send you a bead or two.

[rosemarie23]

I'll see if I have that color - I should have had one in my (4 year old!) sample pack. I don't know if I used it or not!
You sure have my curiosity up!

[DesertDreamer]

Is that the transparent striking yellow?

[Shawn T]

Is that the transparent striking yellow?

Yes

[collectiblesbyrose]

I'll do it if I have the color.

[fritobsessed]

Does it have to be the Effetre version, or can it be Vetrofond? I have the vetro one, but not the other.

[Listenup]

Yes, it's the effetre striking yellow.

At first I was going to say only the Effetre one, but now I'm just a tad curious as to if the Vetrofond version will do the same thing or not so sure, just make sure it's marked in your notes that it's the vertrofond color.

And for those who don't have any, if this is as big as I suspect it will be, you might wannt to get a rod or two of this to have on hand cuz I'm sure it will be HOT!

[MaryBeth]

I'll send you some!

[Feldt's Glass]

I'll help if I have the color in my stash.

[SuzyQ]

I'm sure I have both and I'm dying of curiosoity. It will be a few weeks before I am unpacked but I will send you beads of both. I cut and pasted you to a word file to be sure I won't forget :)

[NLC Beads]

I have some, I'll see what I can send...

[Listenup]

How wonderful! The more the merrier. :-)

The more beads I get, the better I'll be able to determine the factors that affect what I'm looking at.

[NLC Beads]

I made mine on a HH, and kiln annealed at 968, Moretti glass as far as I know. Not sure what other factors you're looking for, but that's noted and they're packed - ask me any other questions you need once you see them?

[Julabula]

Hey, Kay, not sure what you're looking for, but I'm game! It might be a week before I can torch, but as soon as I can I'll make you some, and send them with the info.

[SquareOneBeads]

I will see if I have any and make some if I do.

[SadiesJewels]

I'll give it a go as well ... just to see.

I'm pretty sure I have some of this color.

[Mustang Dawn]

This sounds like fun. It might be a few days before I can get on the torch again.

TTFN, Dawn

[Heidi von Frozenfyre]

...helping out with what could be a pretty important finding, knowing that you're increasing the knowledge base about this color, and a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Thanks!

Why re-invent the wheel Kay? This isn't an important "finding" it's been public knowledge for decades.

Go ahead if it will help you save the world.

...and remember for that "warm fuzzy feeling" you should be in a non-ventilated room when you do it and breathe really deep... aaaaahhhhhh! Nothing like a little depleted uranium in the lungs!

http://www.frozenfyrebeads.com/photos/uraniatrio.jpg

[Listenup]

Actually Heidi, this isn't the finding I was getting, though that is a nice torso and uranium glow.

I also don't appreciate the condescending tone of your message.

[beadsoncypress]

heidi, how do you know what she is looking at/for? Lighten up!

[earthandsky]

Hi Kay -

I made some beads out of M069 last night, and will get them in the mail to you Monday at the latest.

[Ms.Giggles]

I'm going to have to pull my electric yellow out and play, I have stringers and thicker rods.

[Listenup]

Wonderful! I got NLC's Beads (Nikki) yesterday and was thrilled that one of them has the effect I was looking for - but it totally blew my theory of what's going on....so....the more beads the better!

[mintleaf]

If I can find my electric yellow I will try and make a few beads for you. I only have a few rods so wish me luck on finding them!

[Just Nancy]

I'll check. Not sure I have any. If I do I'll make some later today.

Heidi, cool work.

[Listenup]

Three Muses Glass also got the effect I was looking for on a couple of hers. Thank you so much! So far we've manages to shatter the theories I had about what's going on, so I hope that after I have a few more, or have a chance to think about things, I can figure out what IS going on.

[NLC Beads]

I'm curious, too, so I'll be making more tonight. :)

[mintleaf]

Rats, it seems I only have striking transparent yellow :pout:. I wanted to help you out since you actually responded so nicely to my dumb question!

I am not sure how long you plan to collect beads but if you wait until after I pass my probation at work (two weeks) I will buy some of this glass if I can find this color. I really like that it glows :-).

[Ms.Giggles]

Alaina, I've never heard of striking transparent yellow. There is electric yellow (069) which strikes, there is transparent yellow (008) which is just a pale yellow, straw yellow (049) if you have #069 then that is the one that Kay is asking about. (I think...)

[mintleaf]

:waving: Alaina, I've never heard of striking transparent yellow. There is electric yellow (069) which strikes, there is transparent yellow (008) which is just a pale yellow, straw yellow (049) if you have #069 then that is the one that Kay is asking about. (I think...)

Thanks! After I went and looked it up (to buy some at a future date) I realized I do have it :koolaid: . I think it is just a case of different vendors naming it different things :oops: .

[sculptorgirl]

Nothing like a little depleted uranium in the lungs!

http://www.frozenfyrebeads.com/photos/uraniatrio.jpg
Please forgive my ignorance -- this piece doen't look at all like 069 Transparent Striking Yellow (or Electric Yellow, or whatever each vendor decides to call it).

It looks more to me like 070 Transparent Uranium Yellow (which I had one well-known vendor assure me has NO uranium in it), or some other color not produced by Moretti/Effetre.

Heidi, what manufacturer and product number was it? If it really does glow under blacklight, it may be from a host of other minerals rather than uranium.
http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/consumer/faq/what-are-fluorescent-compounds.shtml

[SadiesJewels]

I totally forgot about this ... but should get to the torch today to have a go! I've written it down - lol ... first step in trying to remember to do this. I'm very curious as to what effect you are getting!

[rosemarie23]

I did a couple of beads... not sure what effect to look for either. Maybe my beads don't have it.

[Kalera]

Now I'm curious... I'll play!

[Chuckie]

Teri, I believe that bead was made from some old uranium glass. The color of the unlit goddess is about right. I doubt a specific manufacturer can be named at this point. Here's a cool Wikipedia page about uranium glass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_glass

Uranium isn't the only thing that glows under a blacklight. There are several other minerals that will glow. Here's some really cool photos of glowing rocks. http://users.rcn.com/kenx/indexa.htm . There's a place in New Jersey called the Sterling Hill Mine. There's a chamber in the mine called the Rainbow Room. It's filled with all kinds of glowing minerals. I couldn't find a really good photo of it, but here's a couple. http://www.njskylands.com/Images/Sterling5.jpg & http://hudsonmineralogy.org/images/Rainbow_Room_pic.jpg . I wonder if that glow powder is made from uranium or some of these minerals...

[sculptorgirl]

Thanks Chuckie/Char -- I suspected that maybe Heidi had misinterpreted about which glass was being tested (confusing old uranium glass with 069 Effetre seems awfully weird to me).

Glow Inc. (http://www.glowinc.com/) powders have no uranium, and they are non-hazardous according to their MSDS. (My guess is that the other glow powders on the market are essentially the same, but who knows without checking?)

(Fun links to the glowing rocks!)

[Chuckie]

I'm sure Heidi didn't confuse the 069 Effetre with the uranium glass. It's more likely she was taking a stab and guessing what Kay was looking for in her testing and using the uranium glass as an example. She's been in the business for almost 20 years now, so she knows more about glass than most lampworkers, including myself, will ever know.

As far as the glow powders are concerned, I wouldn't exactly call them non-hazardous. I went and read a few of those MSDS sheets. Firefighters are required to wear self-contained breathing apparatus when fighting fires that involve the minerals/chemicals found in the glow powders. They contain heavy metals. All of them state that they should not be inhaled and can cause eye and skin irritation. And depending on the color, some of them state they can cause toxic neurological conditions if ingested. Not exactly harmless... That was a great link, though. I hadn't seen the MSDS info on the glow powders. Thanks,

Char

[monarae]

I need some testers ... I need you to keep detailed notes about what you did, what torch you used, annealed or not (and at what temp-etc.) and mail them to me... but for now I need you to fly blind so the findings are not skewed.

I think this is a fun idea, and if I had some electric yellow I'd participate.

I thought you should know though, that a truly blind study does not allow you to know the process BEFORE the results are in. In other words, the participants would keep their method and identity unknown.

You might pick a non participant to receive all the beads and send them to you on a certain date; that non participant could number the beads consecutively and catalogue the maker with the associated method/#. It could work very legitimately and scientifically if it a) is truly blind and b) you follow the scientific method and c) write down your hypotheses before anything happens.

good luck!

Mona

[sculptorgirl]

Hi Char -- Kay was very clear about which glass she was asking for testers for -- her first sentence in this thread is "I need some testers to test out a suspicion/theory I have about Effetre 069 Electric Yellow."

Since you read the MSDSs available for Glow, Inc.'s glow powders, then you know that they are classified by OSHA as non-hazardous. (Your cosmetics contain heavy metals, your water contains heavy metals, your air contains heavy metals) -- it's always a matter of the type, the quantity, the chemistry, and the toxicity. Powders (whether glow or talcum or glass) should not be inhaled -- they can cause lung damage over time. This is why a background in Chemistry is very helpful to me; I don't panic and I do read MSDSs literally.

I did not write "harmless" -- I wrote "non-hazardous", just as they are classified. If you are worried for your safety, don't use them.

I was never intending to get into a debate, and only intending to clarify -- I hope you understand my posts as they were intended.

I'm sure Heidi didn't confuse the 069 Effetre with the uranium glass. It's more likely she was taking a stab and guessing what Kay was looking for in her testing and using the uranium glass as an example. She's been in the business for almost 20 years now, so she knows more about glass than most lampworkers, including myself, will ever know.

As far as the glow powders are concerned, I wouldn't exactly call them non-hazardous. I went and read a few of those MSDS sheets. Firefighters are required to wear self-contained breathing apparatus when fighting fires that involve the minerals/chemicals found in the glow powders. They contain heavy metals. All of them state that they should not be inhaled and can cause eye and skin irritation. And depending on the color, some of them state they can cause toxic neurological conditions if ingested. Not exactly harmless... That was a great link, though. I hadn't seen the MSDS info on the glow powders. Thanks,

Char

[Chuckie]

I hope you understand my posts as they were intended.
Hehehe...yes, I understood the post, sorry if I sounded like a crab apple! I just wanted to make sure people actually went and read through the link you provided. OSHA's version of "non-hazardous" doesn't mean something is 100% safe to use without taking precautions.

[Listenup]

I've decided to go ahead and tell you all what it is I'm looking for, but please donb't let that stop you from either sending your beads in, or at least giving us the info and a pix here.

Here is a bead I made yesterday using hand mixed glass - 069 Electric Yellow and 204 White, half and half. It was made on a HotHead using bulk propane, cooled in vermiculite and batch annealed at 968º. The picture is taken on black velvet in normal room light.

76262

Here is the same bead under UV/Black light

76263

It fluoresces orange - but not always and the rods don't fluoresce at all. What I'm trying to figure out is when it will and won't happen. Every time I think I have a theory, a bead will come in that disproves it. I even have a team of Radiologic Physicists willing to look into it for me, if we can't figure out what's going on and I get enough samples in for them to see.

If you don't have any of this glass right now, I'm hosting a frit exchange that will start on the 22nd of July. Keep an eye out and if you participate in that and want a sample of 069, just enclose a note and I'll throw some in your frits.

Tomorrow I'll list the theories I've had and why they didn't hold true. Have a great night all!!!

[Listenup]

Here's a start of what I know.
http://www.listen-up.org/kitty/beads/069yellow.htm
More info will be added as I get time.

[NLC Beads]

I have about 5 more I'll be sending in, too...

[monarae]

Here is a bead I made yesterday using hand mixed glass - 069 Electric Yellow and 204 White, half and half. It was made on a HotHead using bulk propane, cooled in vermiculite and batch annealed at 968º. The picture is taken on black velvet in normal room light.

76262

Here is the same bead under UV/Black light

76263

Is it possible that the fluorescence comes from the white base? What happens if you put it on no base? A dark base?

Here's a start of what I know.
http://www.listen-up.org/kitty/beads/069yellow.htm
More info will be added as I get time.

This is really interesting and I'm especially impressed by your use of citation!

What catches my eye is the combination of molecular compounds possibly used in the glass, and especially the carbonate. The carbonate makes me think of minerals I know that fluoresce. I was terrible in chemistry, but I know that combination of some "ates" turn them into "ites" so that is a possiblity as well.

Here's a suggestion for you. Go back to the basic glass; do not combine it with anything. Use the kiln as the variable and factor in the lack of precise measurement of the HH (you really can't reproduce the same conditions every time unless you make all the beads at the same time and have several kilns running at once.)

Also, is it possible to garage your beads straight from the torch? That could have an effect on the outcome, and would be good to rule out/or in the possibilty that your handling at the torch makes the difference.

Muahhhahhaaahhaaahhaaa! Science is fun fun fun!

Mona

[SadiesJewels]

I have a bunch of beads to send you that I made yesterday (well a bunch is rather overstating it - it's 8). These are just straight 069 ... I don't have any black lights so can't test ahead of time for you. I do think the slight opacity in the beads is interesting. Some seem to be more translucent than others - does that make a difference in the black light?

No mail tomorrow but I'll send them on Thursday.

Sadie

[Listenup]

>>Is it possible that the fluorescence comes from the white base? What happens if you put it on no base? A dark base?<<

When I put it through my usual set of frit tests, only the overcooked one fluoresced. I was thinking for about 10 beads that were sent in that it was some reaction going on with another color, but I got one in the mail yesterday that was a 069 base wrapped with a 069 stringer and it flouresced at the point where the 2 ends of the stringer crossed. No other color involved and it was done on a Bobcat torch.

>>This is really interesting and I'm especially impressed by your use of citation!<<

Well, I have researched this quite a bit to try to find out what the heck is going on - and I'm not really smart enough to know what the chemicals are by myself.

>>What catches my eye is the combination of molecular compounds possibly used in the glass, and especially the carbonate. The carbonate makes me think of minerals I know that fluoresce. I was terrible in chemistry, but I know that combination of some "ates" turn them into "ites" so that is a possiblity as well.<<

My DH works in the field of Radiology and has extensive experience in developing films and the chemicals used in them. Silver Nitrate is something used in film developing, but he doesn't see how the other chemical could turn it into something that would fluoresce. Calcite is the closest thing we could find that fluoresces orange. http://www.glenbow.org/collections/museum/minerals/flourescent.cfm

He comes home from work today and tells me that Andrews AFB has some fancy type of Spectroscopy Unit if it comes down to that.

>>Also, is it possible to garage your beads straight from the torch? That could have an effect on the outcome, and would be good to rule out/or in the possibilty that your handling at the torch makes the difference.<<

I'll try re-making some of them that worked before and garage in the kiln - BUT, I checked the piece I had left over from when I mixed the glass in the picture. It too fluoresced, but it wasn't ever in the kiln. Part of the reason I put out the call for testers is to test out different torches and techniques, temps, and ideas.

>>Muahhhahhaaahhaaahhaaa! Science is fun fun fun!<<

Mona, you and I think alike. Who would have thought that making some simple frit test beads would have led to this. Tomorrow, if I do any 'work', I'll put up a list of what has been done successfully to get the effect. Then I'd appreciate your going over it again and making more suggestions.

So, have you tried playing with it yet?

[monarae]

...only the overcooked one fluoresced. ... it flouresced at the point where the 2 ends of the stringer crossed.

Think about what "overcooked" means. You are applying more heat and more heat means more molecule excitement and more excitement means more electrons jumping and more electrons rearranging themselves means a new molecule.

Silver Nitrate is something used in film developing, but he doesn't see how the other chemical could turn it into something that would fluoresce.

That's right! I knew that was familiar. We did a lot of experimenting and discussion with Silver Nitrate in chem class.

How one chemical turns another chemical into something else has to do with the molecular structure of the compounds and their electron balance. For example, there is quartz and calcite.

Quartz is a combination of silica and oxygen molecules, but there are other things made of silica and oxygen molecules that are not quartz. It is all in how they attach themselves to eachother.

Calcite is CaCO3, Calcium Carbonate. One Calcium element, one compound of carbon and oxygen (one carbon atom and 3 oxygens). When you combine one element with another you get a compound. The elements are bound together because they need eachother to complete their electron shells. In other words I'm a carbon atom looking for a seat in a theater full of oxygens but I can't sit down and call myself calcium carbonate unless I find exactly one calcium and three oxygens to share the seat with me....I need them to be complete and they need me.

Additionally, certain elements LOVE or HATE certain other elements because they are the wrong size to fit into the molecular compound's structure (can't put a baseball in a pingpong size hole) Along with size will come electric attraction or repulsion (positive or negative charges).

So, when it comes down to understanding how silver nitrate can be combined with other elements to form new compounds, you need to understand what the molecular structure is to begin with. Silver Nitrate is AgNO3. Here's more on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_nitrate

He comes home from work today and tells me that Andrews AFB has some fancy type of Spectroscopy Unit if it comes down to that.

Spectrometers are cool and there are different kinds. Essentially it will tell you what elements are within an object. We use it to identify minerals in geology.

Part of the reason I put out the call for testers is to test out different torches and techniques, temps, and ideas.

If you want a definative answer, you have to have more control over the process and you must start with a hypothesis. What did you start out thinking was the cause? Guess what will happen if you test that hypothesis (you will be right or you will be wrong--wrong is your null hypothesis--but be specific ie: it will glow green instead of orange.)

Go back to that link you gave me about fluorescing minerals. There is a very important clue there when they talk about the wavelength of light and the related colors and minerals. Also, find the Smithsonian's mineral website.

So, have you tried playing with it yet?

No but I'm tempted! I have three different batches.

Mona

[torchbynight]

Checkglass's uranium yellow is a vaseline glass- it does glow under black light. Perhaps that's the glass Heidi showcased with the goddess? I had a few sets that were made with that particular glass, it was lovely :)

[Smilyn]

Kay, Are you still looking for more beads?

[Listenup]

Yes, absolutely. You can track progress right here:
http://www.listen-up.org/kitty/beads/069yellow.htm

So far, every time someone has sent in some beads, I've learned something about the glass and its fluorescence - so the more I get, the better it is.

Thanks!!!

Kay

[Smilyn]

Very well. I am hitting the torch tomorrow ands will make some testers for you. I will try to do several different things and keep notes. I s*ck at science, but I do have one of those inquisitive minds - and a little bit of this particular glass. I generally use it for the butterflies I send to Beads of Courage, but I will share a bit for this "scientific" inquiry!

Milyn

[Listenup]

Thank you so much Milyn!

[ICBeads]

I dug out the black light and this is what I got:

Electric yellow beads, one glowing and one not. Pineapple sparkle 5 all glowing. Parrot green, one bead glowing 100% and one with some small dull glowy spots. Rod of parrot green turns a dullish orange under black light. Striking red heart bead - about 50% of it glowing orange.

I had a number of my beads glowing on portions that contained any yellows, oranges, or reds in them. Cadmium is a phosphor - so it hooks up with something exciting in the ?stage and glows?

Germanium is an ingredient in electric yellow? They use it in flourescent lights as a phosphor as well.

http://www.sylvania.com/BusinessProducts/MaterialsandComponents/LightingComponents/Phosphor/FluorescentLamps/

Now, back to why one bead glows brightly and one doesn't? Both my parrot green beads were made on the same mandrel for spacers. I doubt I overheated either. All beads are annealed.

Joanne

[earthandsky]

Kay - I forgot I said I would send beads until this week! So sorry!

A few M069 beads are on their way to you now, made from two different batches of glass. The old batch that I have only less than 1/4 lb of seems to be the magic one. :-)

From the old glass, the one that was cooked in the flame the most glows the brightest, and the other one, not so much. The new 069 I have strikes much more predictably and makes "nicer" beads in regular light, but doesn't glow at all.

I hope they help your research, and thank you for the opportuntity to participate.

[MerryFool]

This is a very interesting experiment, Kay.
Thanks for pursuing it!