Kiln - First

[annettecat]

KILN NEEDED :)

What kiln do you like? Or what did you like when
you started?

I'm a glass newbie, and a total addict.
So far with a couple of hundred beads just waiting
to be annealed, the question is what kiln should i buy?

I would like to be able to fuse as well, down the road.

Really don't want to buy something that will be to
small, but don't want to break the bank.
Working with a HH torch.
Don't really know what brand to look at let alone
what features i want.

Have been looking at Delphi glass, don't see much of
them on this board...any input on them? they are local
enuf to drive to.


Thanks,
Annette Catalano

[Mary K]

I have the 9 inch bead door kiln from Arrow Springs. It is my first kiln. When I started, I didn't have a lot of money (of course... the same is also true now!)
I had to get a lot of stuff, torch ,glass, etc. so I got the kiln without the programmable regulator. I regret that. It is such a pain in the butt to anneal things, and now that I am moving my studio outside of the house to a shed built for my studio, I realize that I will probably have to get something different. I will likely get a bigger kiln when I can afford it, and one that has a programmable timer. I will get another kiln that has firebrick insides, as they hold the heat alittle better in case of an outage, & we do get them where I live. I really like the Skutt kiln, a friend of mine has one, loves it. I also might get another AS kiln, my little kiln is pretty nice.... What ever you get, think digital!
Hope that helps!

[ginko]

My opinion: I have an Arrow Springs AF-99, a toolbox kiln, a couple Paragons. By far, I prefer the brick kilns, especially if you are going to fuse and bead anneal. Arrow Springs kilns are by far my favorite.

[Emily]

Here's something I wrote a while back in response to someone who asked a similar question about choosing a first kiln. I don't think the fact that you're working on a HotHead right now, rather than an oxy-propane torch, enters into the choice.

Your first decision needs to be whether you want a kiln just for annealing beads, or whether you want to be able to do something else in it, like fusing glass, firing PMC (Precious Metal Clay), or enameling. (Fusing, PMC & Art Clay, and enameling all require higher temperatures than annealing, and yoy need to make sure that the maximum operating temperature of your kiln is high enough for those other tasks.) You also need to make a guess about the type and amount of glasswork you think you'll be doing. Will it be just beads, or do you expect to be doing sculptures or vessels that are more than about two inches high? (If so, you need a front opening kiln, rather than a top-opening kiln with a bead door.) Do you expect to work only with soft glass (Moretti/Effetre, Bullseye, Lauscha, Vetrofond, Reichenbach, Kugler, Gaffer), or do you plan to use boro? (Some of the toolbox-type kilns, like the Chili Pepper, have a maximum operating temperature of 1100 F, which will anneal boro, but won't go high enough to kiln-strike some boro colors.)

What's the electrical supply in the place where you want to put the kiln? Larger kilns want 220 lines, but it's easy to find bead annealers that run on normal household circuits (110). However, even small kilns tend to want around 12 to 15 amps, and the usual household circuit is 15 amps. That means that you pretty much can't have anything else plugged into the same circuit as your kiln or you'll blow the fuse (or trip the circuit breaker). If having a dedicated line for your kiln isn't an option, you might want to consider the toolbox-type annealer that Don McKinney makes. It's strictly a bead annealer -- max temp of 1200 F -- but it draws an amazingly low amount of power, something like 6.7 amps.

If portability is important -- if you plan to take your kiln to shows or demos or open torch sessions, or if you have to put it away -- consider one of the toolbox-type annealers, which are very lightweight. The downside is that they're strictly for annealing, and that they cool more rapidly than firebrick kilns, so if you don't have a digital controller they require you to monitor them more closely to make sure they're cooling slowly enough.

Whether to get a digital controller or a pyrometer/infinite switch combination is a major decision, mostly between you and your budget. If you can afford a digital controller, you want one. They're not essential, but they're a huge convenience. They let you enter a program that tells the kiln what temperature to go to, how long to take to get there, how long to stay at the temperature, what temperature to go to next, how long to take to get there, and so on for several different temperatures (usually at least four different steps). The alternative is a pyrometer, which is just a thermometer that tells you what the temperature is inside the kiln, and an infinite switch controller, which controls the amount of power that goes to the heating elements in the kiln. The infinite switch will have settings from Low to High or from 1 to 10. You have to learn by experience which settings will get your kiln to hold at the right temperatures for annealing, and when you want the kiln to cool down at a controlled rate, you have to turn the switch down bit by bit every so often over the course of a couple hours. It's doable, just a bit of a pain. If necessary, you can start with an infinite switch/pyrometer and add a digital controller later. You'll end up paying more than you would if you bought the digital controller initially, but those are the breaks.

If you go over to the Glass Art section of WetCanvas.com, in the Glass Class 101 section there's a very long "sticky" thread on Kilns that has a lot of posts from people talking about different kilns. It may be so long that it's not useful at all, but take a quick browse and see if looking at it helps you at all. You'll see that most people like their kilns. If you want to browse on line, Centre de Verre has a nice website and a nice selection of kilns. I've never bought a kiln there, but I hear good things about their customer service. They're at www.cdvkiln.com. It does pay to comparison shop for kilns -- I was doing some kiln shopping last summer and found a lot of variation on price on one I was looking at (which I liked a lot, but decided wasn't the type of kiln I needed for present purposes -- the Skutt GM10F). As with anything you buy on-line, check out your vendor. I don't know of any sleazy kiln vendors, but I guess there could be some. Ceramic kilns are not usually suitable for bead annealing. Too big, for one thing, and they're top-loaders without bead doors. You don't want to try to put a bead into a hot kiln from the top. Heat rises, and you'll roast your arm.

Bear in mind that a glass annealing kiln and a bead annealing kiln aren't exactly the same thing. Kilns designed specifically for beadmakers will have the elements placed so that you're not likely to hit them with a mandrel when you're putting a bead into the kiln. Kilns designed for people who do off-mandrel work -- sculpture, or work with tubing -- may not have been designed with that in mind. They're likely to be front-opening kilns. You can certainly use them for bead annealing, but you're always going to have to be careful when you put a mandrel in that you don't hit an element. (I've been in a class where a mandrel that was propped on something slipped and shorted out an element -- it was a little bit exciting. I wouldn't want to be on the other end of the mandrel that did it.) Also, some kilns are designed so that the power cuts off when the door is open. If the kiln isn't deep enough for the entire mandrel to fit in, the door won't close, and you physically can't anneal beads on mandrels in it. (Some of the PMC kilns had this feature. They're now being designed with available bead doors. I still wouldn't recommend them as primary bead annealing kilns because the bead doors are really small, and you wouldn't be able to get much in them.)

A couple people here have recommended Arrow Springs kilns. I know a number of people who are very happy with their AS kilns, and I'm not sure I've ever heard from anyone who didn't like one. They are more expensive than some brands, possibly because of the quartz-encased elements. I don't have an AS kiln, but I buy glass and tools from AS, and I've always been pleased with their customer service.

I've never bought from Delphi. Their prices don't strike me as particularly good, and there have been a couple of minor things that irked me about them. They used to (maybe still do) run ads showing people lampworking without safety glasses, and they sold (maybe still sell) kits without glasses, which I think is bad and unsafe practice. There was also an incident a year or so ago when they were selling kits purportedly showing how to make beads that were featured in the Lark Books "1000 Glass Beads" book without the knowledge or consent of the people who made the beads. There was a small frenzy on the forums and Delphi got blasted with a bunch of e-mails, so they took the kits that were unauthorized off their website, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Personal opinion here, and obviously based on extremely limited (practically no) experience, so take it for the little bit it's worth. For a big purchase like a kiln, I'd definitely shop around. Look to see what Delphi has, because shipping on a kiln is a chunk of cash, but also expand your search.

[artsyuno]

I'm also trying to decide on a kiln (I want one that I can use for bead annealing but also for PMC and small fusing projects). Thanks for the info!

[Feldt's Glass]

The two kilns I like for bead annealing are the Bead Annealer from the glass Hive and the blue bird from paragon. Both hold a ton of beads and work really nice. Mike at Glass had a heart attack a couple weeks ago and is probably backed up, but at the same time might have a spare he could send out. I like the bead annealer the best of the two. The bluebird is not brick(the reason it is second) but works very well and great for the money.

[Diane (clarus)]

I just fired up my new Arrow Springs kiln for the first time this afternoon. I chose this one because I do want to do fusing, enameling and PMC. I got the AF138-T4 - one of the larger 110V models that has 4" bead doors - I figured if I was going to spend the money I should save up for the one I really wanted. A good friend loves her Glasshive kiln - one really nice thing about that one is the tall bead doors, so I went ahead and got my AS kiln with those. I chose AS over Glasshive because the AS one is a little deeper, and DH wanted to build me a digital controller instead of buying a prebuilt one. We now have all the parts, now he just needs to build it.

I've heard good things about the Bluebird, but it doesn't get hot enough to do PMC, enameling and fusing.

-Diane

[Hayley]

This is Diane's friend who LOVES her Glasshive kiln. Diane's AF138-T4 is deeper but narrower. I like the wider (18") for garage annealing - it fits a LOT of beads on mandrels. I love the 4" high doors too.

Mike Crowley provides the best customer service - via email or telephone. I hope he will be back on his feet soon.

[artsyuno]

Anyone have the Jen-Ken Take-Apart? It seems like a good deal for the money. It has removable sleeves (one of which, has a bead door), so you can add height for taller fused projects and some other good features.

I'm in the process of putting together a spread sheet on a bunch of different kilns so that I can compare features across the board and research things to death, like I usually do. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed in trying to make a decision.

[artsyuno]

I've finished my Excel spreadsheet, comparing 12 different kilns -- yes, I'm a geek. Annette (or anyone else looking to buy a kiln or merely curious), PM me if you want me to email it to you. This is by no means a conclusive list, but it covers a dozen 120 volt kilns with bead doors and digital controllers that can be used for beads, small fused projects and PMC firing at fairly reasonable costs (most are ~ $500-$600, including bead door). I've compared amps, weight, interior dimensions, bead door dimensions, controllers and any other noteable features that I was able to determine.

I'm leaning toward the AIM 94BD. The Jen-Ken Take-Apart looks pretty cool and is a little bigger, but I'm concerned that several people on LE seem to be having problems with maintaining colors in their beads made with silver glasses and I've also read that the handles get hot.