Anyone use National Torches?

[TMT Designs]

I'm a newbie at the moment and i'll be working with a National 8M... hubby suprised me with the newb package and frankly I'm getting a bit concerned that I have yet to see it mentioned as a torch that anyone else uses. He made the purchase based on my wanting to try boro at some time.

Anyone out there that could help me out? Maybe give me a little feedback on them?

I'm also curious as to what supply of 02 you are using, being a tank, generator or concentrator and what benefits you may be having from each.

thanks a bunch

new newb on the block :wink:
~Teresa

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

I used one for a year and half and it worked great. Get the flashback arrestors. I used mine with an oxygen generator. Works great will tanked oxy too! You ought to like it just fine!

I am sure there will be other opinions too.

~Suzy~

[Dale M.]

I have used a National 8M with SM7 tip with 1 oxycon and propane set at 1/3psi for soft glass. It worked quite well at this minimal level for soft glass. IF you used two oxygen concentrators and a higher propane pressure it will be quite hot... Probably equal to a minor or maybe GTT Bobcat.

IF you want to step up to SM21 tip you will probably have to use tanked oxygen to get enough oxygen volume to run large tip effectively....

That said.... The National 8M is probably a bit of a light weight for BIG boro work, but that also depends on what you want to do... IF you work beads and small sculpture it is going to be a great beginners torch and give you lots of service. IF you don't know what you really want, go with this torch and learn...

IF you don't want it, box it up and send it to me!!!!

Dale M.

[TMT Designs]

Whew.. good news!! Thanks for the tip on arresters, I've seen it mentioned (with the almost non existent manual).... just didn't know what they do.

What is the difference between tanked and a concentrator (and generators?)? And did you use just one (concentrator)? I've seen many posts in my search that mention using two. From my understanding it is to boost the o2 needed per torch recommendations.. right?

Please don't laugh... I've not even fired this babay up yet. The only o2 laying around is from my hubby's portable torches (= tiny tiny). I will practice using that, but, knowing myself, the first time I light it I won't turn it off until I drain the tank hehe.

ty ty for the feedback Suzy!... greatly appreciated!!

~Teresa

[TMT Designs]

Thanks Dale!

I'll be using it for "very beginner" beadwork with soft glass, that I may classify as sculptural... depending on what I end up with hehe.

Not to sound like a complete idiot... but, it's unavoidable...
"propane set at 1/3psi for soft glass" - is this measurment at the regulator? or 1/3 open?... yeah.. i am a newb hehe

Can you point me to some more invaluable information?

Being that I don't have a great source of o2 yet, do you have any rec's?.. ie/ tank, concentrator, generator?

tyty

~Teresa

[Dale M.]

ok....

The propane pressure set at 1/3 psi is because I was using a standard nonadjustable regulator like found on your BBQ.....

With a adjustable regulator (welding type) you can set pressure at what ever level works best for you... Anywhere from 1/2psi to say 10 psi...

The difference from concentrator oxygen vs tanked oxygen is that 1 concentrator puts out about 4-5 liters per minute of oxygen at a rate of about 7-8psi... Gang two concentrators together and you get 8-9 LPM at a pressure of about 7-8psi.... You get double volume of oxygen with two concentrators but not double the pressure....

With tanked oxygen you have unlimited supply (within limits of tank volume), so volume of oxygen (lpm) is almost unlimited, and pressure is set by your regulator... You can set tanked oxygen anywhere from almost 0 psi to say 20-30 psi...

The pressure numbers/volume you use will be determined by two things, trying what torch manufacturer recommends for optimum flame and then you play with numbers to tune flame to what best suits your type of work...

Dale

[luke gardner]

If you want to check out what can be done with boro with a welding type(pre-mix) torch the check out Steve Selchow's work on glassartists.org. He does some incredible work and it is quite large for the size torch he has.

[TMT Designs]

[QUOTE=luke gardner]If you want to check out what can be done with boro with a welding type(pre-mix) torch the check out Steve Selchow's work on glassartists.org. He does some incredible work and it is quite large for the size torch he has.[/QUOTE

I did a name search and "Steve Selchow" didn't come up... possible typo?? thanks for the info tho... I can get so lost in that site... so much eye candy!

~Teresa

[Joanne Owsley]

Teresa,
I've been using the National 8M for a couple of years now and I love, love, love it! This torch is really versatile and it will grow with you as your experience and skills grow. This is partly due to the interchangeable tips.
I started with the SM7 (that's SM for surface mix....more on that later), when I was making nothing but round beads with soft glass. I'm also able to work boro with this tip, as it is plenty hot. When I wanted to branch out into larger work, I purchased the SM21 tip (for about $80 at the time). The SM21 allowed me to work with a larger and/or hotter flame for larger work in either soft glass or boro. About a year ago, I bought the 8R pre-mix rider torch that mounts on top of the 8M. With this combination, I have the large, bushy surface mix flame from the SM21 for keeping things warm or getting them really hot, and I have the small, pre-mix flame for detail work and really playing around with boro colors.
If you really take advantage of all that this torch has to offer, I don't see how you could be disappointed.
If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me
joanneATprosperityglassdotcom

[Tutti-frutti]

Hi Teresa
I am also a proud owner of the same torch and like it. I have tried boro and it work fine .I use my propane set at 5 on the inside ring of the thingi on top of the propane. having a duh moment... And my tanked o2 is set on 10 psi. that's plenty heat for soft glass. When I tried boro I just turned up the o2 on my toech. There was no need to turn up the psi for little stuff.
Hope you enjoy and I second the motion for flashback arrestors
Katja

[ltsexpressions]

Ditto to all above for my Nat8M...

Joanne... you are making me drool over the ryder... AGAIN!!! (can't afford it right now though...) Not to mention the SM21 tip...

Current tips: SM7 (usual tip used), Premix Adapter with HTC-0 and HTC-3 tips

2 oxycon's set at 3.5 and 4 LPM respectively

Propane tank set around 5ish usually.

I LOVE this torch, although my friend Sue says it's "evil"....

./..... I think she's jealous! (of course her Mini CC isn't a bad little torch though)