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Due to the in-availability of Mapp gas in bulk, I am wondering how well the hot heads will work with propane?
I use to be able to go to the local welding place here(linweld) and get a bulk tank filled with their version of it, (which I can't even find what they put into it now.)
I dropped off my 20lb tank three weeks ago so I would have it to teach a class this weekend. When they hadn't called me to say it was ready yet I called them yesterday they told me they can't fill my 20lb tank anymore and I have to buy one of their 30lb tanks.
With less then a weeks notice I have no where else that can fill it.
Do I pay their $60 tankprice plus the cost of fuel and hope I can get my six way splitter to fit on inside of they too narrow opening in the cage or can I use propane?
Dia
I think Amber makes her beautiful beads on a HH with Propane.
tammydownunder
2007-10-09, 3:41pm
We use a 20 lb propane tank with a spliter for the hot heads and it works just fine.
susiekline
2007-10-09, 3:42pm
I make beads on a hot head with propane. I know a lady who took a Ed Hoy and told me the instructor said you can never use propane, that it doesn't burn as hot as mapp gas. I thought I had read somewhere that the temps are about 100 degrees different. I keep showing her the beads I make with propane...
I did try chemtane, my local equivalent of mapp gas (a brand name?) and couldn't make a bead to save my life. Switched to propane and have had no problems at all.
see if they have 20lb proplyene. usually that is the standard bulk after 7lbs. proplyene is great!
evilglass
2007-10-09, 5:09pm
Some folks do really well with propane, amazing work. Some folks, not so much :)
i use 1lb chubby propane tanks. works fine for me and the shape doesn't freeze up like the longer tanks plus it's 1/3 the price.
Bluejeangirlnc
2007-10-09, 6:34pm
There are many wonderful artists on this board that use bulk propane with amazing results. When I was considering moving away from the 1 lb tanks of MAPP I read and read so many threads with this very discussion in them on this board.
I've switched to bulk propane this past week and so far have no regrets. It's MUCH cheaper and I can work as long as I want without having the tank freeze up. I ordered a 12' hose for it from ABR that allows me to have the propane outside the garage while I'm working (many safety conscious posters here advocate this and I trust their advice).
The only change I've had to make is where I work in the flame and since I'm still new to lampworking that's not a huge adjustment in the process.
NLC Beads
2007-10-09, 6:46pm
Two thumbs up for bulk propane here - you may need to position the glass and flame a bit differently than MAPP, but you can get wonderful results.
I use propane on my HH as well.
lunamoonshadow
2007-10-09, 6:56pm
Bulk propane in a BBQ tank here too :)
Listenup
2007-10-09, 8:07pm
Ditto also!
I need to take some pix of the beads I've been making lately so I can show you all.
OK this is sounding good. What do I need to change when working with Propane? closer in or farther out?
does the glass melt faster or slower?
Thanks for all the help!
Dia
Two thumbs up for bulk propane here - you may need to position the glass and flame a bit differently than MAPP, but you can get wonderful results.
The only change I've had to make is where I work in the flame and since I'm still new to lampworking that's not a huge adjustment in the process.
Bluejeangirlnc
2007-10-10, 3:39am
Definitely further out than with MAPP. I'm not sure about the faster or slower, but I've had better luck with stringer and am able to get better dot application with the propane. That may be a side effect of not feeling like I have to rush to get it done before the canister freezes, though.. so grain of salt with that one.
ellyloo
2007-10-10, 7:19am
A bbq tank will last you *FOREVERRRR*.
I've gone through 3 in a year. (that's torching a few hours every other day, and lots on weekends).
momoharley
2007-10-10, 7:25am
OK, I have a question or 2. First, I want to make sure I am understanding. Are you using the same tanks as would be attached to the barbeque. Secondly, Where do you get the connections for the torch and long hoses? I want to use it in my basement studio, do I need to hire a professional for wall installation or can I just run the hose through the wall or a window. I'll tell you I have been working on my studio for a while and between ventilation and uprgrading safely to bulk propane, my head is spinning.
Thanks for your help!
ellyloo
2007-10-10, 7:41am
I can answer the first... Yes, I buy a tank that you would use under your barbeque.
You can swap it out, get it refilled, or buy a new one at the end. (refill is cheaper as far as my experience goes.
I have a regulator and a hose. Not sure where *you* can get them, I got them from my lampwork supply place (they sell oxycons, and all the hoses and fixin's.) I switched from a HH to a minor, and still use the bbq tank.
Dale M.
2007-10-10, 8:05am
OK, I have a question or 2. First, I want to make sure I am understanding. Are you using the same tanks as would be attached to the barbeque. Secondly, Where do you get the connections for the torch and long hoses? I want to use it in my basement studio, do I need to hire a professional for wall installation or can I just run the hose through the wall or a window. I'll tell you I have been working on my studio for a while and between ventilation and uprgrading safely to bulk propane, my head is spinning.
Thanks for your help!
Answers to many of your questions can be found here...
http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412
Dale
Had heard propane burned dirtier than MAPP when not mixed w/oxygen -- Not true? I'm on MAPP/HH & would love to find a cheaper way. Also checking out links.
Hi All,
I am so glad to hear people are using propane as it is so much cheaper. Can someone tell me what the thing is called that would attach the hose from the bulk tank to the hot head torch? An exact name and maybe where some people have found them would be very helpful!! Thank you in advance.
Dinah
Bluejeangirlnc
2007-10-10, 10:24am
This is the hose I bought for mine: http://www.dichroicimagery.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=3803
It's 12 feet long.
momoharley
2007-10-10, 10:33am
Dale, Thanks for the links. I've started the LE one and it seems helpful. It's a long one so it's going to take me a while. Just wanted to thank you for your time. Also, one concern I heard mention in that link that it isn't a good idea to work with propane in the basement. They didn't seem to go into much detail about it.
I realize that the tank must be outside, but if I ran a line into the basement is that still bad? I would disconnect the tank after each use and make sure the hose was protected from flying glass. I would definitly inspect for leaks regularly. It's the only place I have for a studio and I want to be safe.
Captured Light Glass
2007-10-10, 10:35am
I am using Propylene and have a 36 pound tank outside. I tried the Propane as well and found that the Propylene burned cleaner and hotter.
Dale M.
2007-10-10, 7:41pm
Dale, Thanks for the links. I've started the LE one and it seems helpful. It's a long one so it's going to take me a while. Just wanted to thank you for your time. Also, one concern I heard mention in that link that it isn't a good idea to work with propane in the basement. They didn't seem to go into much detail about it.
I realize that the tank must be outside, but if I ran a line into the basement is that still bad? I would disconnect the tank after each use and make sure the hose was protected from flying glass. I would definitly inspect for leaks regularly. It's the only place I have for a studio and I want to be safe.
Some of the issues of having studio (propane) in basement.....
Propane is a heavier than air gas.. It pools in low places. Basement is low place.
Basements are the usual place to put gas fired appliances and they have pilot lights. Possible ignition source for pooling propane.
Basements are difficult to ventilate. Usually lack of places for ventilation exhaust to exit basement and places for fresh air inlets.
Dealing with fresh air (make up air) for lampwork ventilation PLUS fresh air for gas fires appliances (furnace- water heater) so volume of air coming into basement will insure you do not "back draft" appliances and draw carbon monoxide an nitric oxides out of their flues and into your breathing space in studio..
A lot has been written on basements as studios in "SAFETY" forum.... Yes you can have a safe studio in a basement, but it takes more effort and attention to details then a above ground level studio...
Dale
momoharley
2007-10-11, 5:54am
Thanks Dale, I didn't even think of pilot lights. I guess I need to do some more research.
Y'all are so lucky! I would have been back to using my HH a long time ago, but the propane here is awful. Some of the muddiest and most soot streaked beads I've ever made were done with propane. It turned Moretti white into something that looked like that River Rock or those streaky ivory new Vetrofond odd lots that are out. Would you believe that white (of all colors!) got muddied up big time! I can understand getting streaks in the transparents, but white??! C'mon!
My only choice is to get propylene like I did before, but I have to shell out $200 to buy a 60lb tank plus the fill. I have to go with another company because the welding shop I used to go to has only 100lb tanks. They got rid of all the 30 and 60lb tanks. It's a good thing I had already moved up to the Bobcat and oxy, or I would have been out of beadmaking altogether.
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