Concentrators: is two 10 lpm better than one one 15 lpm?

[beadworkstudio]

I'll be teaching my sister to make beads in two weeks, and she needs some recommendations on a torch and concentrator. She doesn't want to deal with tanked oxy.

I work on a Pirahna and I have two oxy cons. I usually run one, but I hook up the second when I want to work with silver colors or make big beads. I would recommend that setup for her, but a Pirahna could be hard to find and maybe there's something a little better.

I'm thinking the new Mega Minor would be great. Would one 15 lpm concentrator or two 10 lpm concentrators be better? Does two 10 lpm concentrators add up to 20, or is it really something less than that?

Would you recommend something completely different?

[kbinkster]

I could be wrong, but I think you're confusing LPM (flow) for psi (pressure). I don't know of any 15 LPM concentrators currently on the market.

I see in your signature line that you run your Piranha with two M10s. The M10 is a 5 LPM concentrator. They used to put out 10 psi, but I see that now, they have gone down to 7 psi. I don't know which version you have, it could be either 7 psi or 10 psi BUT the LPM is still 5 LPM (unless you have one of the early, early versions that was a 10 LPM machine... confusing).

Anyhow, to answer the question about adding two concentrators together: any time you put two concentrators together, you will lose a little bit of pressure and a little bit of flow. When running a torch where the resulting LPM is more than needed for your torch, there will not be a huge difference in performance in two smaller units (e.g., two 5 LPM units) versus one larger one (e.g., 10 LPM). However, on a torch that has a larger need for oxygen, you will see a difference.

Now, there are a couple of units that I know of that put out in the 15 psi range/area: the M15 (puts out 7 or 8 LPM at 15 psi) and the OG15 (puts out around 7 LPM somewhere around 13-15 psi). The Onyx+ puts out 7 or 8 LPM a around 20 psi. At any rate, these machines put out 8 LPM or less. My guess is that you are talking about M15 because you already have the M10.

So, if your question would be if this larger 8 LPM unit would outperform two 5 LPM units on a Mega Minor, my answer would be no if the Mega Minor needs more than 8 LPM. Two 5 LPM machines add up to about 9 - 9.5 LPM. That's more than 8 LPM. Pressure is not going to be as important on that torch as flow. If you don't have the flow to feed the torch, it doesn't matter too much how much pressure it has behind it.

[beadworkstudio]

Ahh, thanks, Kim (hope I'm remembering your first name correctly!). You're right, I'm confusing lpm and psi. My M10s are about 2 years old--I bought one when they were new on the market and one a couple of months later. I'm not sure what their actual output is. I thought I was getting 10s, but who knows.

The Regalia looks like it might be a good fit for her. I think that's what I would get if I had it to do over! We're still not sure which torch she should get. As a bead buyer, she loves both soft glass and boro, so she's planning to try both. I am 99% sure she'll need second smaller concentrator in a few months, so she may as well go for a better unit to start.

Have you had a chance to test the Mega Minor? What concentrators would you recommend with it?

[Hayley]

I could be wrong, but I think you're confusing LPM (flow) for psi (pressure). I don't know of any 15 LPM concentrators currently on the market.


Kim - isn't the Hurricane 15 lpm/20 psi and the Psyclone 20 lpm/20 psi or are those considered generators and not concentrators?

Sheila - sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread, just want to clarify!

[oxydoc]

Ahh, thanks, Kim (hope I'm remembering your first name correctly!). You're right, I'm confusing lpm and psi. My M10s are about 2 years old--I bought one when they were new on the market and one a couple of months later. I'm not sure what their actual output is. I thought I was getting 10s, but who knows.

The Regalia looks like it might be a good fit for her. I think that's what I would get if I had it to do over! We're still not sure which torch she should get. As a bead buyer, she loves both soft glass and boro, so she's planning to try both. I am 99% sure she'll need second smaller concentrator in a few months, so she may as well go for a better unit to start.

Have you had a chance to test the Mega Minor? What concentrators would you recommend with it?

Hi Shiela, the M10 is a 10 psi 5lpm unit. We have not changed anything. Someone may be confusing it with the M5 which is 7psi and 5lpm. The M15 is 15 psi and 8lpm. By the way, Our 866-955-0200 number is back on. We have had trouble with our lines outside the building. jack

[kbinkster]

Kim - isn't the Hurricane 15 lpm/20 psi and the Psyclone 20 lpm/20 psi or are those considered generators and not concentrators?

Sheila - sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread, just want to clarify!

Oh, you're right, Hayley. The Hurricane is listed as putting out 15 LPM.

Generators are concentrators. They extract oxygen out of the air using the same process. Some companies like to call ther larger output concentrators "generators" to make them sound more industrial, since "concentrator" is more commonly associated with medical units. But, they do the same thing.

Also, the big machines that require an extrernal compressor to supply the feed air are commonly called "generators."

[kbinkster]

Ahh, thanks, Kim (hope I'm remembering your first name correctly!). You're right, I'm confusing lpm and psi. My M10s are about 2 years old--I bought one when they were new on the market and one a couple of months later. I'm not sure what their actual output is. I thought I was getting 10s, but who knows.

The Regalia looks like it might be a good fit for her. I think that's what I would get if I had it to do over! We're still not sure which torch she should get. As a bead buyer, she loves both soft glass and boro, so she's planning to try both. I am 99% sure she'll need second smaller concentrator in a few months, so she may as well go for a better unit to start.

Have you had a chance to test the Mega Minor? What concentrators would you recommend with it?

You know, I have run into quite a few people who thought that they were buying 10 LPM units when they bought their M10s.

I have not yet tried the Mega Minor. When I talked to Peter at Nortel, he said that it would run well on two 5 LPM units, so it should do even better on a Regalia.

Just going by what he said, I would recommend two DeVilbisses (5 LPM at 8.5 psi each) or a single Regalia.

I really need to get one of those to test out!

[beadworkstudio]

No problem, Hayley! Learning something is never a bad thing!

Thanks, Jack. Good to know!

I think someone was giving out misinformation about the M10s, and I know that Unlimited Oxy wasn't the source. I bought mine from two different sources, and I don't know where I got the idea they were 10 lpm. I already had a DeVilbiss 5 lpm and wouldn't have sold it if I had known I was just buying a more expensive 5 lpm unit. I hope I can help my sis avoid those kinds of mistakes due to lack of information. So thanks for the great info everyone. :)

[Mary K]

I have a 2 year old M-20 running a Lynx. I would like more "ump" in my flame. Do I want a Regalia? They do not make the M-20 anymore, so getting another one is out. Also space. 2 concetrators would be an issue under my workbench, with all the ducting.
Anybody out there have an oppinion ( Hey what am I crazy, this is LE! every one has an oppinion!) as to what is the best replacement for my torch?

[kbinkster]

Yes, you want a Regalia. :lol:

Seriously, though, has your flame wimped out over time? Or, have your demands grown?