What are some Differences of Working Glass

[cherie]

I am almost ready to get my national 8M hooked up....Im just waiting for my concentrator to arrive now..Ive been working on a HH and realize there could be a learning curve, but I would like to buy some sample of other types of glass Would anyone have any suggestions on which to start with. I have worked only 104, but would like to experiment with some other coe's to see if I like it or not..Any input on what type of glass to start with would be great..I am feeling a little overwhelmed..there are just so many different types of glasses and I would just like to purchase a few sample packs of a few different types of glass..any suggestions on where to start?? Ive read a lot about the 90 and 96 coe's..I like the colors, but besides the difference in coe..what is the difference between working w/ these and 104's?

Edit: Ok..Maybe I didnt make myself very clear, 20 something views and no answer :(..so I changed the question around a bit..Here are some types of glasses I am looking at..Like I said, Im feeling a bit overwhelmed and a little confused on what can work w/ what..and what are handpulled cane?? Is this a special color that someone makes themselves??? I also wanted to try Caliente (sp) cane, which I beleive is 96coe..

System 96 cane
Reichenbach 96coe
Gaffer
Zimmerman-96
Bulleye 90
Uroboro 96coe

Im sure there are other people who have worked only in 104's and would like to try the larger color pallet of some of the other coe's that are offered..Im assuming that the same coe's can work together. I have noticed that some laucsha colers do not mix well w/ moretti...Right now, Im thinking of buying sample of uroboro and reichenbach (if they have a sample pack.)..if anyone has suggestions on another glass to try Im wide open for suggestion...thanks so much!

[artwhim]

The first fun things I would add would be Raku (Reichenbach Iris Orange) and some fun 104 silver glasses, Gaia and Psyche are very user friendly. The Raku is 96 but can be used sparingly with your 104. Now that you will be able to get an oxidizing flame, you may want to consider some striking silver glasses. Many like Van Gogh like a hot flame with plenty of oxygen to develop their best colors. The silver glasses are expensive and can be very frustrating, but they are also very addictive and yield amazing colors.

Many of the Reichenbach, Gaffer and Zimmerman glasses can be used sparingly with 104. They are the brands used to make the beautiful furnace glass frits. They can also be used sparingly on Bullseye and used with abandon on any 96 glass. Many of the furnace glasses are very saturated so when using the transparents, they need to be thinned down or the colors will be too dark.

Bullseye makes great glass. It is much stiffer than 104 so you will notice a difference in how it works. They make some beautiful colors including pinks. Many people like to use Bullseye for sculptural work because of the stiffness.

Yes, Caliente is 96 and the colors are beautiful. I love the ones that look wispy.

I have some of everything you mentioned and occasionally use each, but to be honest I hate cleaning off the workbench to switch too often. I like having a stash of Bullseye because there are colors that aren't available in 104. I often pull out the Bullseye when I'm making Spring colored beads because their pastels are so pretty and I so love neo-lavender.

I mainly Reichenbach as accent glass on 104. It is nice to be able to use 96 as a base for frit and not worry about compatibility. If you like really intense colors, the furnace glasses are great.

You will have a learning curve when switching from the HH. You may want to hold off trying a new coe of glass until you feel confident with the switch, that way when you try a new coe, you will know the differences are the glass and not the torch. I can't begin to tell you how much glass I ruined when I switched.

It's almost 2 AM as I write this, and I swear my keyboard should shut off after midnight, so I hope what I wrote makes sense. I'm sure others will have more info to add on each of the glasses. Have fun with your new setup!

[cherie]

Thanks!!

[Beckah]

Howaco has half-rod sample sets of Bullseye and Uroborus 96. I think I paid less than $50 for each of the sets. Dogmaw has sample sets for Satake. It's worth sampling around to see which colors/working characteristics appeal to you. I love Bullseye -- the colors and the way it works just ring my chimes more than 104.

[cherie]

Thanks! I will check out Dogmaw..my tree is bearing fruit soon (taxes) and after I pay off some bills Im going to have about 300 to spend just for myself...an early B-Day present :) I know its not a whole lot when looking at some of the prices of glass, but nothing to sneeze at either...Ive been able to rent studio time once a week and have been working on a minor..which I kind of wish I havent b/c it is a difference when I come home to my HH, but I am having a heck of a time of beads not cracking. Not the small stuff, maninly when I do vessels and long beads. I get so absorbed in the detail Im not keeping it heated enough. Im hoping some of the 96 and 90 are more forgiving. Ive heard this about boro. I guess I will find out soon enough :) I cant wait to get everything set up!

[beadbroad]

I kind of regret diversifying early on -- I'm not allowing myself to be lured into the 96 COEs that are so lovely now, because it's too much to keep track of. There is SO much available in 104 these days, that if that's where you've started I'd stick with it for a while, at least while you're getting used to your new torch.

That said, I do love my Bullseye 90 COE for different purposes. I think the transparents are much prettier, and I like the additional stiffness for hollows, vessels and anything sculptural.

[cherie]

Can you use 90 COE for stringer decoration on 104 or is that too much of a coe difference?

[CO_Phantom]

I wouldn't recommend 90 COE as a stringer decoration for 104 because of the greater difference in COE. I'd be careful with using 96 as a stringer decoration, only because of the amounts that you end up using.

I would also caution against using Satake leaded glasses with your new propane/oxy torch. They would work great on your HH, but because they are 120 COE (much much softer), they will boil very easily on a minor or miniCC, etc. and I would be afraid of what sort of fumes you might be creating by boiling a lead bearing glass. That said, they have a fantastic color range (pinks included) and could be fun to work with your HH.

I have a boatload of Reichenbach that I like to use on occasion. I find myself leaning toward Moretti glasses these days, but the Reichenbach transparents would be great with hollow vessels, white heart beads, or hollow beads. They are just so saturated, they all look like black in the rod.

I think I would either try a Bullseye sampler, or get some of the Vetrofond odd lots and more of the 104 colors that you might have been hesitant to try...a Double Helix sampler or Lauscha sampler.

Although...if you want to try 96 (Zimmerman, Reichenbach), olympic color rods usually has sales going all the time so you could get some of the reactive sampler rods. I think I have the reducing rods sampler--with includes Raku (Iris orange) and other iris colors...green, blue, etc. which would be a fun thing to try with the new torch and reducing capabilities. Those you can use as stringer decoration on your 104 beads (sparingly, as with frit) and you can get some great effects.

-Amy

[pam]

Hi Cherie, I'm sorry, I was one of the ones that read your first post and passed on. I thought you would have so many answers that you wouldn't need mine added to it, and I was short on time that day.

Since my answers are just slightly different than others, I will add to this thread.

I use Bullseye glass and have for many years, although I started with 104 glass. I love Bullseye because of the stiffness. Generally if you see a lower coe the glass will be a bit stiffer. So, 90 coe glass is stiffer than, say, 104 glass. However, that doesn't always hold true, because if the glass contains lead, as do most of the Reichenbach, Kugler and Zimmermann colors, they are very soft to work with, softer than 104 glass.

Here is a chart from Olympic Color Rod that gives the coe of Reichenbach, Kugler and Zimmerman glasses. It says Reichenbach has a coe of 91 to 94, while Kugler has a coe of 93 and Zimmermann has a coe of 94.
http://www.glasscolor.com/colors/coefficient_table.aspx
Because these glasses contain lead, they are very soft to work with and their coe is very flexible. They are capable of extending their compatibility up to the 104 glasses. Normally when mixing glasses one should stay within 3 points to be considered compatible.

However, coe is not the only determination of compatibility - although most of us beadmakers only consider that, which is why we have compatibility problems within the same coe. Viscosity is a very big issue in compatibility. If you are using a specific coe glass, you become very used to how fast the glass melts and how the glass moves. If you happen upon a glass that moves differently, then you need to be aware that their may be a problem with compatibility because of viscosity. Most of the glass companies try to make all their colors compatible with each other, so most of the time you really only have to worry about viscosity when you change companies.

I especially like this page on the CR Loo site. I think it explains everything pretty well. http://crloo.com/Technical/technical.html#expansiontables

Hand-pulled colors are just that, pulled by hand from the glass furnace or crucible where it was created. Many times when a company is trying to create a specific color, they may try different combinations of oxides before they discover the perfect combination for what they are looking for. Generally they do their experiments in small batches and rather than run the glass through the normal process for manufacturing rod, they will pull the rods by hand. Generally the rods are not as even as they are when put through the manufacturing process for creating those rods, so expect different dimensions of the rods, even within the same rod.

I hope this will help you.

[Carolyn M]

I have most of the Reich colours as well as most of the 104 colours. I use the Reich very frequently in twisties and in small amounts on my 104 beads. As has been mentioned the transparents are often so dense it's impossible to see what colour they are in the rod.

[DesertDreamer]

Uroboros is great for basic colors and a reasonable price. They also offer one of the nicest, most predictable 96 COE clears around, IMO. My only "issue" with them is that there aren't enough colors for me, but I know they're gradually adding more.

For way more color, I really like the Kugler line. I get most of mine from Hotglasscolor.com. The palette is huge and they have some wonderful reactives.

For 'gourmet' colors, I love Caliente and GG Glass.

Oh, and I can't leave out Messy Color!!!! Their 96 COE colors are wonderful!

One more....check out the Vintage colors from Jessica at Phoenix Art Supplies. The spring green is sooooo pretty!

I use all of the 96 interchangeably. So far I've rarely had a compatibility problem, and most times I suspect it's operator error.

[lunamoonshadow]

You DO know you can work ALL of those glasses on your hothead, right? Hotheads aren't just limited to 104!! Nikki works all of them, I play with any of them I can get my hands on, & the only difference is they melt just a tad slower--I :love: Bullseye on my hothead--it's so easy to control--not as "sloppy" as 104 when it melts! I've had no problems even melting the nearly 10mm rods of vintage 96 I've gotten ahold of :)--just warm it up slowly & go for it!
~luna
(who found playing on a "big-girl" torch @ the studio is awesome fun--but sometimes I'm surprised at the speed of the heat--and get globs of glass dropping on the table! :lol:)

[Hayley]

am having a heck of a time of beads not cracking. Not the small stuff, maninly when I do vessels and long beads. I get so absorbed in the detail Im not keeping it heated enough. Im hoping some of the 96 and 90 are more forgiving. Ive heard this about boro. I guess I will find out soon enough :) I cant wait to get everything set up!

Cherie - there have been a lot of great information and advice already posted. I just want to add to that by answering your question. Unfortunately if you have issue of your vessels and long beads cracking, coe 90 and 96 won't change that for you. Your new National, being hotter than a hothead, will help some but essentially you really need to remember to give insurance heat to the bead to prevent it from cracking.

Boro is the only glass type that is more "forgiving" but your new torch won't be hot enough for you to make anything but small Boro beads.

Hope this helps.