Which COE - Soft Glass?

[Hels]

I just tried some soft glass, and I think I like it:)!

I don't want 4 different COE's laying around, because I'm one of those people who'd get it all mixed up and ruin everything:P, so besides boro, I'd like to stick to just 1.

Which do you think is best? For colors, price, availability, variety of uses?
104 - Effetre, Moretti, Ventrofond, GTG,
96 - system96, Uroboros
90 - Bullseye, Uroboros, Tekta

I'd also like to be able to get sheet glass for fusing and frit easily in the same COE... is 104 only good for beads or is there a variety in that also? I have seen different people recommend different glasses, so I'd appreciate an explanation why a given one might be a better choice.

Thanks a bunch!!

[Rob]

bullseye for fusing and lampworking. Price wise the BE is also seeming better than the 104. there is a huge amount of variety in the 104 coe but quite frankly the new colors are looking much more expensive than 104 used to be. you can also use slightly more of the leaded furnace glass with the BE than you can with the 104. (stuff like raku and the rest) BE is stiffer than the 104 also.

[gubnavnania]

If I can choose to start over, I will just use BE.

[Tanner Studios]

I can't say I agree with Rob. It's true that there are more expensive 104 out there ( silvered ) But thats because there are so many more 104 colors being introduced daily. And I have made a career out of mixing 96 furnace glass with 104 glass. But I can't disagree ether. It's truly about what works for you. That is true with fusing as well.

Really what is gained by only selecting and working with one type of glass? When the world could be yours with a little bit of organizing.
Scott

[Phoenix]

When the world could be yours with a little bit of organizing.
Scott

Love that quote :-)

[ChaseDesigns]

Well, I pretty much only use BE now, for a few reasons. ( I still have my moretti and bring it out ever now and then)

BE is great for lampworking and fusing. Moretti not so much.
BE is a bit stiffer and it is easier for me to make marbles and sculptural work.
The glass is more consistent from BE.
BE has great customer service.
American made ( so little of what we use is actually made in the USA these day, this makes me feel good.)

[Ro]

i have a bunch of BE left from a variety pack to try it. I dont like it at all. its too stiff for soda lime, it works more like boro. I much prefer 104. i have some 96 to try but likely its 104 for me. the ease of connection and softness and longer working time are why i like it. i guess the best idea is to get a few rods of each, play with it, see what you like. i really got the 96 few rods to use to make do dads for fused work. i dont even like BE for fusing, trying to get rid of what i have left.
ro

[glassactcc]

i have a bunch of BE left from a variety pack to try it. I dont like it at all. its too stiff for soda lime, it works more like boro.

Me too what you said!!!

[glassactcc]

Woops....that didn't turn out "quoted" did it?

[DesertDreamer]

I've tried all 3. I dropped BE a few years ago because some of the colors were too finicky for me, and (at the time) there were some big holes in their color palette (no rods of transparent orange or red, for example).

The 104 family clearly has an enormous color range. I enjoy it immensely for that. But I'm crazy about all of the veiled cane colors available in the 96 family, especially those from GG Glass and Caliente. I don't think I could choose unless things were desperate...but I think I'd have to go with 96 if I had to. The basic colors are rock solid and predictable (Uroboros is excellent) and Kugler has some gorgeous canes as well.

[AnnDK]

I use BE mostly because I can get it in both of the glass stores where I shop, I do have some 104 that some FANTASTIC people on LE introduced me to by sending me some!
I like the BE for sculpturing, the 104 is great for round beads and comes in colour you won't find at BE.
BE is getting really good at putting out odd lots, I've bought some at www.bridgetownglass.com
My mum works with cold glass and uses BE, another reason I use BE.. I get all her scrap glass, which save me a bunch!!!

:D Ann

[jaci]

I must admit I have all three, and then some.... besides the 90, 96, 104, I have satake (113 ish) and something else, I don't remember its name or coe. It is from Paula D. *on sale a while ago @ tin city*

I honestly work most of the time in 104. After recently getting some 96 I really like it ALOT though! It melts so nice! I think the question is really what do you want to do in soft glass? Do you want to have glass that acts less like boro (I mean what's the point of having 2 totally different glasses that you want to work differently, and end up doing the same things with both? We are talking about variety?right?) Then It is really a color choice thing if your looking at 96 and 104. Do you want the silver glasses? Is frit your thing? How much do you want a good consistent clear? Even if you do 96 or 104 now, you can interchange some of your supplies to work with the other later if you decide. Most frit is 96 that we use in 104 glass. (you could use the 96 with the 90 too. it is closer than the 104).

There are so many different suppliers for soft glass and so many options that maybe you should just go shopping and pick up what you want to work with, then check your cart before you check out. see if what you like is 104 or 90 or 96.

http://www.frantznewsletter.com/color%20pallete/index.htm

This might help in your color choices. It has ALOT of colors in 104 and 96 coe's.
You could also get 3 sample packs see what you like and sell the other 2 in the garage if you don't decide to keep them.

[artwhim]

Helen, if you plan to stay mainly with boro you may like the stiffness of Bullseye. With Bullseye you can use Schott clear which IMO is the best soft glass clear and if you want to make soft glass marbles that can be a big factor. Bullseye is also good for fusing and is compatible with all the 96 furnace glass frits. Of the three COEs, Bullseye has the most limited pallet, but a very pretty pallet, plus you can expand the color range with the furnace glass frits. I believe there is a studio starter (not sure that is what it is called) where you pay to stock your studio and then you qualify for a good discount forever after. Perhaps someone has better info on this.

96 has a large color pallet. Sheet glass is easily found for fusing in this COE. You can use as much frit as your heart desires without worrying about cracking issues.

104 has an extremely large color pallet and many fun silver glasses are currently being produced in 104. This glass feels very soupy compared to boro.

I have all three in my studio but rarely work in 90 or 96 because I hate cleaning off the work bench, plus I love the new silver glasses. I have been known to cheat and throw a cookie sheet on top of the mess and work with a few rods of another coe, have to be careful the clear rods don't drop over into the mess though. ;)

[alexm]

I don't think there is any one all around "best glass". It depends on what you want to do with the glass.

I have several different COEs in my studio with many different brands. I am in the process of getting rid of some because having too many COEs in the studio is confusing and can cause disasters if I'm not careful.

You didn't mention Satake, which is COE 113 to 115. It has a great range of delicate pastel shades, but it's too soft for anything but beads.

104 has the largest color palette in soft glass, especially with the new boro-like glass with silver that have been introduced in the last couple of years. There is some very limited availability of 104 sheet glass, but it's yucky, just don't go there. 104 is great for beads and some sculptural work, but it's too soft for marbles. It works well with 96 furnace glass or frit, which extends the color palette even more.

90 BE has a much improved color palette from before and it's available in matching sheet glass. It's also compatible with 96 frits. I found BE awkward because it's in between the two COEs I like best, 104 for beads and 96 for fusing. Compared to either one it has a limited color range. Otherwise it has a great consistency for beads and marbles. I don't like it for sculptural work because it tends to crack on me if I don't put it in the kiln right away.

96 is made by several manufacturers and the sheet glass has an astounding color range. The availability of rods in 96 is much greater than before. If I were going to do a lot of fusing this is what I would use. The 96 furnace glass extends the color range and effects even more.

[Lorraine Chandler]

COE 104 for price, availability and colors but it loses on the different uses.

If you have a hot hot torch you would like bullseye for all of the reaseons stated by Travlingal.

I have a HH and a Mega Minor and I love 96 COES on my HH. It has a sweetspot. They all do but its tricky to stay there and it melts 90 and 96 just fine.

You can get Vetrofond CHEAP from Moretti and more!

Lorraine

[Miss Kate]

For just beads, I use 104 - cause I have the most of that.
I use Bullseye for fusing, and just bought a bunch of bullseye rods so that I can torch embellishments for my fusing projects.
I haven't made any beads yet with Bullseye, only cause I just got done unpacking it.

If your torch can handle boro, then it can handle bullseye.


Miss Kate

[theglasszone]

I'm all about the 104! I wish some of the BE colors were available in 104, but that's my COE and I'm sticking to it!!! :)

DeAnne in CA

[LyndaJ]

I use almost exclusively Bullseye. But I've done some work recently with 96 and taken classes with 104.

In my opinion, if your torch can run hot enough, there's not really that much difference in the workablity of the three glasses. I just use a smaller flame for the 104 and 96.

I went with BE initially for a lot of the reasons stated above overall price, customer service, reproducabilty of colors, fun odd lots, american made, better compatability with the furnace glasses. I'm happy staying with it (with the occasional foray into raku :) ). The silver glasses are nice with it. It's reactive to a reasonable extent if you play with it enough. BE tries to make new colors to suit its customers (we even had a survey recently on the new opaque colors). One of the qualities that I saw as a big downside initially, I'm now pleased with. Their standard colors are opalescent rather than opaque (although they are introducing more opaque colors as odd lots currently). There are some techniques (dot masking) that I could not do successfully, but for other types of beads the added luminoscity of the opal glass makes them more beautiful than just opaque glass. If you can't live without certain ivory color reactions, there are some that can be duplicated with 90 COE, and some that cannot. I'd pick BE again today if I was starting all over.

[DawnT]

I struggle with this question all the time. I have boro, 104, 96 and 90. I keep thinking I'd like to use only 96 because of the compatibility issue with the frits I love to use but honestly can't give up the 104 for a few reasons. I love silvered ivory stringer, some of the more reactive colors like opal yellow and copper green, the ease of etching. The downside for me is the crappy clear - especially after using boro clear so much.

[pierces*designs]

I use almost exclusively 96. I have 104 and boro but 96 is my palette of choice.

[Hels]

Wow.... what a lot of fantastic answers... and so much to think about. This thread may be really helpful to people who have only experienced one type of glass. There were too many responses for me to individually thank, but you guys are cumulatively just the best!!

[teachertracey]

Well, I pretty much only use BE now, for a few reasons. ( I still have my moretti and bring it out ever now and then)

BE is great for lampworking and fusing. Moretti not so much.
BE is a bit stiffer and it is easier for me to make marbles and sculptural work.
The glass is more consistent from BE.
BE has great customer service.
American made ( so little of what we use is actually made in the USA these day, this makes me feel good.)

This is a useful thread for me too since I've only used boro glass. Thank you for posting. I ordered my first BE catalog and was amazed to get an email from them(with a name even!) welcoming me and wondering if I got the catalog or had any questions. That really made an impression.

[Firebrand Beads]

Yeah... I have at least 5 COEs in my shop right now, and it's nuts. I don't mess with the Bullseye often, but I like the (limited but different) color palette. When they carried a Schott clear that was *gorgeous* and compatible, I bought a BE sampler. However, I find that since I am used to the buttery feel of 104, (use 104 most of the time) I tend to snap the brittle BE rods in my hand while working them. I have a *nasty* scar on my right first-finger that probably should have had stitches!
Lots of good, real-world advice here. I think it depends on what you want to do. Don't limit yourself too much, though!