"Newbie Question" - Studio Help

[Gail Kops]

Hello All!

OK - I will try to make this short and sweet! :grin:

The only place I can set up my studio is my sewing room upstairs. It is carpeted and there is wallpaper on the wall - but a very nice roof window that will give perfect ventilation and air exchange...

Anyway, the table I have in there is wood so I was thinking of putting those small ceramic tiles on it and grout it. Also was thinking of putting ceramic tile behind the table on the wall.

Here are my questions....

What about the floor? It is an old house and putting ceramic on the floor won't work (floor is not straight and "gives" a bit). Metal sheet of some kind over the carpeting??? This has me stumped.

Also - how big of an area (wall, floor, and table) should I allow for flying bits of hot glass (so I know how much tile to install on the table and wall)?

Hope I am headed in the right direction....
Thanks for any input you can give me.

[Kevan]

My husband thinks the roof window might not be adequate ventilation. Light a piece of incense or something right at the area where you will be working and see if the smoke goes immediately out the window. If it doesn't you need to have a fan in it to pull it out. It's very important to adequate ventilation. Especially if you have kids and all. There are heavy metals that make the colors in glass that can cause kidney and liver problems and some are carcinogenic.

What if you covered a piece of plywood with something fireproof? Like tile. They also buy a board that if fireproof that they put behind woodstoves if they don't stand out from the wall far enough.

I would cover as much of the walls as I could with the tile. You could go cheaper with sheets of that board I spoke of or with sheets of galvanized metal. Depends on what you want to do.

You could wrap the entire room with aluminum foil. Ok, I'm joking there.

Welcome to bead making!!

[Gail Kops]

Hi...

Thanks very much for your post.

This new board that they have (for fireplace areas, etc.) I assume has no asbestos - but then perhaps they can't sell it that way anymore, or?

I liked your idea - would save alot of work with gluing tiles and grouting, etc.

I will try that with the incense. My room is very small and the roof window is about 2 feet wide by 3 feet tall.

First, it has to be cleaned out - too much being stored in there! But then isn't that true of alot of our spare rooms?

I like the foil idea - I would have a daily feeling of being a present...\\:D/

Appreciate your good wishes - this will definitely be an adventure!
Have a good one...

[pam]

At the Gatherings in classrooms in hotels we used to cover the floor with plywood, which worked fine, but now we use a welder's tarp. The ceramic tile with grout is a great work surface, as is marble tile. Think about putting a trim around the edge of the table that stands up about a quarter of an inch. This prevents hot pieces of dropped glass from rolling off the edge the table into your lap or onto the floor. A sheet of cement board can be used behind the bench against the wall, which might work better for you because it would be movable if you decided to change things around at some later date. Once you set up, be sure to check your ventilation.
Have fun.
Pam

[MikeAurelius]

I'm not seeing any of Gail's posts...what the heck?

[MikeAurelius]

Ok - switched computers and now I can see them....

Gail - a roof window is not "perfect ventilation and air exchange". And I'm being very serious and straight up - no joking around.

Ventilation/air exchange for our purposes as lampworkers REQUIRES (as always, caps for emphasis, not shouting) moving the exhaust air with a fan outside. To do this safely and efficiently, some kind of collection hood is required, along with ducting.

The hood can be of practically any design - a modified kitchen vent hood, a shop-built hood, anything that can capture and confine the fumes coming from the glass and the torch.

The fan acts as the motive force to suck the exhaust fumes out of the collection hood and blow them through the ducting to the outside.

The other part of the ventilation system is a source of fresh air to replace the exhausted air. If there is no replacement air, the air pressure in the room begins to drop, creating a low pressure area in the house. Air will rush into this low pressure area from anywhere it can - furnace or hot water heater exhaust ports, bathroom sinks and toilet vents - can you imagine the smell if you start sucking air from your sewer system????

Fresh air has to come from outside, and from at least 10 feet away from the exhaust duct end. You cannot, repeat, absolutely cannot, use the same "hole" to exhaust and supply fresh air - all that will happen is that you suck back into the room the exhausted torch fumes.

The roof window you discuss would be a good exhaust window, and a window on a side wall would be a good source of fresh air (you can also turn that around as well), BUT, you need a powered ventilation system OF SOME KIND. You cannot use a passive system with lampworking torches. It cannot, absolutely cannot be done.

[MikeAurelius]

There are many threads here in the safety forum, on the ISGB forum, and the Art Glass Forum about ventilation design. I strongly suggest that you take a couple of days (yes, it will take that long) and read and educate yourself on this topic. The more you know, the safer you will be.

Here's links to the two forums I mentioned:

http://www.isgb.org/forum/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=safety

http://www.artglassforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31
http://www.artglassforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

[Dale M.]

Here is ventilation in a nut shell....

9809

And though it appears simple (and it is pretty much is)... You need to read and be informed and make right decisions for your own and families safety...

For a floor covering , you can get at local "home improvement store" what is called "cement backerboard" used to put under/behind ceramic tile. It is cement based, does not contain asbestos and is fire proof, Comes in sheets about 30X60 inches (I think - maybe 24X48 )

Dale

[Cosmo]

I think all the rest of your questions have been answered very well, so I'll skip them...

But for covering your table, we use old metal printing plates. Most any print shop will have loads of them sitting around. We sell ours for scrap once a year (and get about 3¢ a pound). I'm sure they would give you all you can carry just to get them out of there. They are mostly aluminum. The shop I currently teach at has beautiful antique wood tables. I was hesitant to teach on them, so I got some scrap pieces of wood and covered them with plates, and intentionally dropped some molten glass on them. The wood just barely got warm. Best part is they are very thin, and relatively light. They can be cut with simple metal cutting tools if you need specific shapes.

[Gail Kops]

I am carefully reading and studying all of your comments and instructions.

There is a chimney in that room - perhaps I can get an old oven hood and vent it into the chimney and then use the roof window for incoming fresh air.

We live in a very very old house and possibilities are very limited for everything. When I get the room cleared out I will take some pictures and show you the layout, etc.

I like the idea of the printing plates - now to find a printer here in Germany who has them...

I am learning alot from you all - keep the ideas and help coming!

Hugs to everyone..

[MikeAurelius]

The main problem with using an old chimney is being sure that the chimney is free and clear and has large enough opening to handle the diameter of ducting that needs to be used, based on the air flow required for the size of hood you are using.

For example, if the design calls for an 8" round duct, that's an area of 50.25 square inches. You have to be absolutely SURE that the chimney has at least 50.25 inches of open area all the way up to the roof. Additionally, if the chimney run is long, this is going to cause some substantial back pressure, which means you have to use a more powerful fan.

Also, you are going to have to seal of all other access to the chimney - if you don't it will backdraft, and the fumes will not go outside.

I personally DO NOT recommend the use of chimneys of any kind for exhaust ventilation use. There are just too many inherent problems for them to be safe.

[Gail Kops]

It looks more and more like I should give up this whole idea of learning this craft...

This is the ONLY room that I can even consider. We have a "Hansel and Gretel" cottage (see pix), not very many rooms, and no cellar. The building we have behind our house was an old goose barn and has no heat at all.

The only other possibility that I can see is that we insert the duct through the attic floor and somehow vent it out through the roof somehow. Here in Germany the homes are not built like our houses in the States. We have just support rafters with cross pieces of wood that the clay roofing tiles hang on. We have no central duct work - our homes are mostly heated with water radiators - no central AC/central heating. How this duct would pass through the roof is a mystery to me.

I may be listing all of my supplies that I have bought for sale soon unless I can come up with another possibility for this venting problem.

Darn...

[Gail Kops]

9818

Here is our house....

[Gail Kops]

Here is a picture from the courtyard between the house and the old goose barn. The large window in the upper right is the one I was thinking to use for fresh air. As you can see, we are "attached" to the neighbor's house.

9821:-k

[beadworkstudio]

I feel for you, Gail. I work in an unheated garage, and wouldn't even consider bringing it into the house, even for comfort. I open one of the garage doors about a foot for air intake, so any warmth that might have been there goes out fast.

Is there any way you can set up in the old goose barn? A radiant heater and warm clothes would make it tolerable, if it's possible to set up ventilation and other safety measures in there.

I live in Colorado, with a climate similar to Germany. I find that once I get going, my hands warm up and I stop noticing the cold.

Just a thought before you give up the idea!

[Dale M.]

It looks more and more like I should give up this whole idea of learning this craft...

.

No..... It only means you have to be more inventive to find a way to properly ventilate work area....

Dale

[Gail Kops]

Yes - we have thought about the goose barn (right now it is our rec room that we use only in the summer) - but it can be very damp and I don't think it would be good for the oxycon to run it in moister air. I can handle the cold.

I had thought we could build a fireplace out there to warm it up and perhaps keep the moisture level down, but that is a little too costly right now and would be a huge project to build up a chimney.

There is also the possibility of the back part of the garage, but the well pump is in that area and I am also afraid of the moisture problem.

If we could figure out a way to vent a hood through the roof - I think that might be the solution, but with the way the roofing is done here - not sure. I must get my DH to put on his thinking cap.

Thanks for your input and help...

[Kevan]

Your house is just adorable! Why don't we get cute houses like that here? We just get wood. Well, yours probably isn't up to earthquake standards. :wink:

[lunamoonshadow]

For practicing, get a hothead (around $40 US) some bulk propane & hoses (around $25 US), and set yourself up in the goose barn, or the yard while you're waiting to figure out your indoor ventilation issues....Don't be so quick to do the "need oxycon, big torch" to learn--Sarah in the Netherlands makes all her beads on the hothead, as do a few other *really* talented beadmakers--it's a highly underrated little torch & only needs a table & some clamps to set up--I drag mine in & out of the house on a computer "cart" on wheels--I torch IN THE DRIVEWAY 6 or 7 months a year, "weather permitting" & send my beads to a friend for batch annealing....because I'm "still learning" and I love the glass...
Sure, I WANT to be able to set up in my house, but I've got "ventilation issues" and "space issues"--weird basement apartment, it's rented, and until 3 days ago, my landlady had a physically & mentally handicapped patient in her care, so *my* having propane running into the house, even on a part-time basis, wasn't really even an OPTION!!
Really though, my point is, if you want to melt glass, if there's a will, there's usually a WAY, even if it's "part-of-the-year-weather-permitting-with-a-smaller-torch" lol....
:D
~luna
eagerly waiting for warmer weather, or at least a few days over 55 degrees with mild winds :D

[Dale M.]

Umm..........

Check out what was done with hood in this thread.... Rather ingenious to say least.... Might be something to consider.....

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9135

Dale

[Miss Kitty]

Gail,
My husband did basically the same thing as shown in the picture from Dale's link...he opened the existing window...then enclosed it including the duct work from the fan. We found a great deal on a high capacity exhaust fan built for a kitchen...which is nice because there are lights built in as well as the fan. He also insulated the insert...so there is little or no problem with the loss of heat in the winter.
I used a piece of stainless from a fabricator to cover my table top. It was only $15 for a sheet that is approx 30"x48".
Peggi

[Gail Kops]

Hello -

Thanks, Dale, for sending me the link for that ingenious exhaust set up! It really is a cool set up. Unfortunately, I don't think it could work for me.

I will be cleaning out the room in the next days and will take some pictures of my perplexing area. It is basically a slanted ceiling (under the roof) with a cantilevered type of roof window. The window has to be pulled down which lifts it at the bottom outside edge.

I will get some pictures posted in the next days, so I am hoping you all will stay tuned so you can see what I have to work with.

I am still thinking a hole in the attic floor with the exhaust venting through the roof tiles but I must find out if there is such a thing as an exhaust clay roof tile here (Germany)...which would exhaust but not allow wind/rain/snow to come in, etc.

Thanks everyone - with your help we will come up with a solution for sure.

Have a super Sunday!
:wink:

[Heather/Ericaceae]

Hmm... I just posted a suggestion that might work for a single-hung wall window, but then I re-read and you actually have a slanted skylight. Yeah, I don't think you could vent through that very easily. It seems a shame to put any holes in that lovely roof. Maybe working outside during mild weather and saving to renovate the goose barn would be the best solution. Hopefully someone has a better suggestion! Good luck! -Heather