Minor vs Mini CC..

[Shane]

This question are for those lucky enough to have, or that may have used, both torches. I'm weighing pros and cons trying to make a decision. Any comparisons would be helpful.

[loco]

I started on a minor and then moved to a mini cc. The mini has a wider flame and a nice radiant heat base that's great for doing sculptural work and marbles. If I started over again I would start with the mini as it can do everything the minor can do and more. It can also take more abuse IMHO.

Granted the minor will work OK on a medical concentrator where as the mini doesn't, but I started with tanked O2.

[theglasszone]

You always give the good answers, Loco! And after being "brain drained" with all my "what should I do?" questions this last week, you probably had this one quite at the ready! Thanks for helping us all out...

ILY!!! (my kid taught me this is "text speak" for "I love you") :) I takes 'em as I gets 'em!
DeAnne in CA

[kbinkster]

I posted the following reply on another thread asking the same question

The original intent of this thread was to compare the Mini CC to the Minor Burner. I gave my opinion earlier, but I thought that I should do some sort of testing and measuring to quantify things (back it up with facts). I got Willy and Wally to help me.

We took a Minor Burner and a Mini CC (the high-oxy version, the one that is supposed to have the wider flame) and ran them at various pressure settings and candle lengths. We measured the oxygen and fuel consumption at these settings with high precision flow and pressure meters. We also measured the candle lengths and flame widths with calipers. The flame lengths were measured with a measuring tape. I compiled all the data into some charts, which I will attach as a Word file. Tables don’t copy and paste very well onto posts.

I should mention that I do not stand to gain anything by recommending one of these torches over the other.

Wally starts out by measuring the torches at 5 psi oxygen and ¼ psi propane. He measures the largest usable flame (before the flame falls apart and distorts).

Minor Burner Maximum Flame at 5 psi Oxygen ¼ psi Propane:

Candle length: 0.40”
Flame width: 0.75”
Flame length: 11”
Oxygen consumption: 11 CFH
Propane consumption: 2 CFH

Mini CC Maximum Flame at 5 psi Oxygen ¼ psi Propane:

Candle length: 0.30”
Flame width: 0.5”
Flame length: 7”
Oxygen consumption: 12 CFH
Propane consumption: slightly less than 2 CFH

The Minor Burner achieves a larger flame than the Mini CC at low pressure settings.

Wally then bumps up the pressures to 8 psi oxygen and 2 psi propane and takes measurements while running the minimum length candles Carlisle recommends for the Mini CC. He also takes measurements while running the largest usable flame (before the flame falls apart and distorts).

Minor Burner at 8 psi Oxygen and 2 psi Propane
Neutral Flame with 3/8” candles:

Candle length: 0.375” (3/8”)
Flame width: 0.75”
Flame length: 11”
Oxygen consumption: 9 CFH
Propane consumption: 2 CFH

Minor Burner at 8 psi Oxygen and 2 psi Propane
Maximum Boro Flame:

Candle length: 1.25”
Flame width: 1”
Flame length: 12”
Oxygen consumption: 16 CFH
Propane consumption: 5 CFH


Mini CC at 8 psi Oxygen and 2 psi Propane
Neutral Flame with 3/8” candles:

Candle length: 0.375” (3/8”)
Flame width: 0.75”
Flame length: 11”
Oxygen consumption: 14 CFH
Propane consumption: 2 CFH

Mini CC at 8 psi Oxygen and 2 psi Propane
Maximum Boro Flame:

Candle length: 0.65”
Flame width: 0.80”
Flame length: 12”
Oxygen consumption: 20 CFH
Propane consumption: 5 CFH

When running 3/8” candles on 8 psi oxygen and 2 psi propane, the Minor Burner and the Mini CC have the same sized flame, but the Minor uses less oxygen.

At this pressure setting, the Minor was able to attain a flame suitable for working boro that had candles that were 0.825” long. The flame was .950” wide and 12” long. The Minor used 12 CFH oxygen and 4 CFH propane to support this flame.

Wally pushes the candles out further to 1.25”, but there is not much gain. The flame is 1” wide and still 12” long and on the edge of distorting. The candles are streaky, but the flame has not yet distorted. The Minor uses 16 CFH oxygen and 5 CFH propane to support this flame.

At 8 psi oxygen and 2 psi propane, the Minor has a better range of flame sizes than the Mini CC, which only has a small window to work in. There is not much variation in the flame offered by the Mini CC.

We also measure the Bobcat under the same conditions as the Minor and the Mini CC. If you are interested in how they fair when compared, as well as our findings concerning radiant heat, continue on.



We run the Bobcat at 5 psi oxygen and ¼ psi propane and measure the largest usable flame (before the flame falls apart and distorts).

Bobcat Maximum Flame at 5 psi Oxygen ¼ psi Propane:

Candle length: 0.60”
Flame width: 0.75”
Flame length: 13”
Oxygen consumption: 12 CFH
Propane consumption: 3 CFH

At the lower pressure setting, the Minor is able to get a larger flame than the Mini CC. But, the Bobcat achieves a larger flame, yet. The Bobcat has more top end at the lower pressures than either the Minor or the Mini CC.

The pressures are increased to 8 psi oxygen and 2 psi propane and measurements are taken while running the minimum length candles Carlisle recommends for the Mini CC. Measurements are also taken while running the largest usable flame (before the flame falls apart and distorts).

Bobcat at 8 psi Oxygen and 2 psi Propane
Neutral Flame with 3/8” candles:

Candle length: 0.375” (3/8”)
Flame width: 0.75”
Flame length: 11”
Oxygen consumption: 6 CFH
Propane consumption: 1 CFH

Bobcat at 8 psi Oxygen and 2 psi Propane
Maximum Boro Flame:

Candle length: 1.5625”
Flame width: 1”
Flame length: 16”
Oxygen consumption: 16 CFH
Propane consumption: 6 CFH

All three torches are capable of achieving the same size flame when running 3/8” candles at 8 psi oxygen and 2 psi propane. However, the Bobcat consumes less oxygen and propane when doing so.

Oh, and a word about radiant heat... All three torches appear to have the same radiant heat.

Wally uses a simple technique to test this. He takes the wooden end of a match stick (not the head) and carefully approaches the body of the flame (about 3.5” from the face of the torch) until the wood ignites from the radiant heat. He measures the distance from the side of the flame to the point where the wood ignites. That distance is right at 0.300” for each of the three torches.

When running the largest flame attainable at 8 psi oxygen and 2 psi propane, the Bobcat has a larger flame than either the Minor or the Mini CC. This means that the Bobcat has a higher top end and you can make larger items on a Bobcat before needing to upgrade to a larger torch.

You may ask why we run the test with 3/8” candles and not ¼” candles, since 3/8” candles is very aggressive and is the higher end of a soft glass flame. The reason we run the candles to 3/8” is because that is the minimum candle length Carlisle recommends for the Mini CC. They state that running candles shorter than 3/8” will cause excessive carboning and overheating. They aren’t kidding. Before running the tests, Wally runs the Mini CC with neutral candles ¼” long. In only 10 minutes, he sees carbon forming on the bottom jet. The jet is glowing. The knobs are so hot that they sting when he touches them. He turns off the torch for fear that running it any longer at that setting would damage it. The Minor and the Bobcat can both be run with much shorter, more controllable/less aggressive candles. While testing my own Bobcat the other night, I am able to run 1/16” candles (all blue, no white/yellow tips) for over half an hour before getting bored and moving on to working glass. I have absolutely no carboning when running this flame.

When you run a lot of oxygen through a torch, you should not get carboning. This is why Carlisle recommends a minimum 3/8” candle length. A neutral flame at that candle length has enough oxygen to keep the torch from carboning. But, even with 3/8” candles, heat still loads up on the body of the Mini CC and makes it uncomfortable to work with. If you need to run a small flame on a Mini CC, Carlisle instructs you to first get a neutral flame with 3/8” candles and then back off the propane. This makes a colder flame that is not very useful. With the Mini CC, you are pretty much stuck working with a limited variation in flame sizes. They may claim that a small cold flame is a good thing, but it is not. When I work with stringers, I want to weld them to my base bead so they don’t pop off later. You need a hot enough small flame to do this. A cold small flame might bend a stringer, but it does not weld it very well to the base bead. Oh, and when you want to do melt-ins, you really want your small flame to be hot.

It is still my opinion that the Minor Burner is a better torch than the Mini CC. It is also my opinion that the Bobcat is a better torch than either the Minor or the Mini CC.

Willy and I ran my Barracuda and took all of the same measurements of the centerfire, except for the oxygen and propane consumption rates. I will post a separate thread with the results for anyone interested.

[Shane]

kbinkster,

Now THAT'S the info I'm looking for! Thanks a bunch. I forwarded this to the lil woman, maybe this will help determine if and when we can upgrade. Looks like the M-5 we had in mind may not be enough. Thanks again!

[Darelyn]

Thanks for the details. I was wondering the same thing as I plan to move off the HH and go to natural gas and oxycon.

Shane, you said the M-5 may not be enough. Why?

[Shane]

I've read several people say that you don't get the "full potential" from a Mini CC without a big oxycon or 2 smaller ones. I'm not goin all out, doing mainly soft glass so we're thinking a Mini CC and a small oxycon. We can always add another oxycon later or setup a "reserve" tank for that quick added umph. For us it's a matter of economics. I can't get bottled oxygen cheaper than buying an oxycon and when one 1 of 7 beads now come out ok on our HH it's a waste of glass.

[Hayley]

I had a Bobcat and a DeVilbiss from Kimberly before upgrading to my current set up. The 5LPM oxycon doesn't power the Bobcat anywhere near its "full potential." Since Kimberly's research clearly indicates that the MiniCC uses more oxygen than the Bobcat, I would think the same goes for the MiniCC. My M15 runs the Bobcat really well, it also runs the inner fire of my current Barracuda (essentially the Piranha part of the torch) really well as well.

Hope this helps.

[Shane]

Hayley,
What PSI was your 5LPM set at?

[Hayley]

The DeVilbiss (can't remember the model number) I had was a 8.5 psi/ 5 lpm machine and I set it at 4.5 lpm on the dial meter but not sure exactly what psi it was actually producing. I have used Bobcats with tanked oxygen and tanked is much, much, much hotter than my oxycon set up. Can't give you a percentage tho.

I would recommend getting a slightly bigger oxycon than the M5. I wish I had done in right in the first place.

[Darelyn]

Thanks for the comments. I just do regular soft glass beads, nothing too fancy. So I was thinking of a minor with an M5. Wasn't sure if I needed to get the M10 or not.
Any thoughts?

[Shane]

We went Mini CC and DevilBliss (5LPM 9-10PSI). I'll let you know how it goes after everything arrives.

[LaurieBSmith]

I haven't seen anyone mention what I consider the biggest working difference between the minor (which I love) and the MiniCC (which I love more).

The position of the torch is more adjustable with the Mini. It's a bit higher on its stand than my minor (7 years old when I replaced it). I find the knobs to be more convenient. And there's a pivot thingie that I like to.

My minor did its job...and it retired with honors. But the Mini is a great little torch. Of course, you have to have enough O2, but that taken care of, torch adjustability and height are better with the Mini.

[GatorBeadMaker]

We went Mini CC and DevilBliss (5LPM 9-10PSI). I'll let you know how it goes after everything arrives.

Shane,

This is the setup I am looking at. I would love to know how it's working out for you!