Complex canes

[EaglesLegacy]

Why don't more people make complex canes using the bundled fusing method? Is it the lack of need for that much cane, or is it the difficulty level or what?

[theglasszone]

I've never tried it...I don't have a kiln that would be able to fuse it, unfortunately! Wish I did...

DeAnne in CA

[Elthrin]

Bundled fusing method, whats that?

Just finished building my own kiln so will have a go if you tell what its all about.

Still in the playing around with stuff phase rather than actually making a bead that would be worth selling.

[southernfume]

i used to make cane all day long for a large production shop. i made alot of stuff people were trying to recreate, they got close but no cigar. why do you need a kiln for cane?

[DesertDreamer]

I tried it once in a class and then again at home to repeat it. Too much work for me, and I got air bubbles all over the place. All that work setting it up and all I got for my troubles was random mini-bombs. :(

[Tink]

I think it's just overkill for what most beadmakers want to do. Plus, the majority of beadmakers don't have the right kind of kiln to be able to do it.

[Carolyn M]

Why don't more people make complex canes using the bundled fusing method? Is it the lack of need for that much cane, or is it the difficulty level or what?

Ummm because I can make them with my torch?

[southernfume]

Ummm because I can make them with my torch?

haha yea me three.

[Moth]

When I think 'complex canes' I think of the super complicated picture murrini depicting elaborate images. I don't think it feasible to make one of those with a torch. A face murrini, a fish...sure, but not the ones I've seen. Glass Kitchen comes immediately to mind.

For the types of canes that I use, the bundle method would be overkill, overwork and too much for me to pull down by myself. I'd have to get a helper to pull it down small enough.

Not to mention, if I wanted to keep it so the slices would be large, I don't have the stuff I need to cut the slices.

Now, complex twisted canes and latticino...those are easily built with a torch, no need to drag the process out to make huge pulls. Not to mention that building canes with the bundle method is a skill you need to perfect over several pulls. Someone here mentioned a lot of trapped air, etc. I don't want to work for hours to get cane easily made at the torch to wind up with nothing at the end.

~~Mary

[EaglesLegacy]

Yes Mary, I was referring to the intricate picture cane, like what this lampworker is attempting here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82993

[theglasszone]

Wow, OK - I am now "enlightened"!!! How absolutely stunning...I'm going to think and dream about this all night...

Thanks so much for sharing - it may be the start of something really......well....I can DREAM, can't I?

Nite Nite!
DeAnne in CA

[JetAge Studio]

I think it depends on the artist, and what they are trying to achieve. Each approach yields different results. You can do many things with a torch, as well as many things with a kiln; I believe the two can and should be used together. But, like anything, each discipline or technique takes LOTS of practice to perfect. Perhaps one reason you don't see kiln formed murrini more often, is the fact that it really can be labor intensive (not to mention, you're usually working with a lot of glass, and therefor will pull a LOT of murrini). In the lampworking world, one of the greatest things about working glass on a torch is that it gives instant gratification. Setting up complex canes to be fused in a kiln takes a lot of time, and for me, lots of anxiety. (btw, if you heat the stack in a slow enough manner, you should eliminate the air bubbles!) Have you seen the Japanese way of making complex cane? Some amazingly complex cane is made all with a torch. Here's a book on Malcolm's website:
http://www.artcoinc.com/tonbo-dama_book.php

Renee Wiggins

[EaglesLegacy]

Thank you for the tip, Renee :-) I definitely understand the delayed gratification thing...I've been dying to lampwork for nearly a year, but wanted to do it right...Lots of research on safety, proper ventilation, and mostly a safe place (like my new concrete garage). So when I finally get my hands in some hot glass (well, not literally I hope), I'm probably not going to want to work on something so time intensive right away, not to mention I still need to learn how to pull stringers.

[ArtcoInc]

Thanks, Renee

There's a new Japanese DVD out all on floral work. Three projects, with the first being a Lily murrini. First, they make the stamen cane. Then, they make the petal cane. Then, they bundle a bunch of the petal cane around the stamen cane, and pull a flower cane. Add a leaf cane and a vine cane, and you are ready to assemble the flower on your bead.

All of this is done with the ultra-soft glass on one of the Japanese air-burner torches. Like the Tombo-Dama DVD, the audio is in Japanese, with English subtitles.

The DVD is available now, and will be on my web site soon. It's called "How To, Vol 4", and costs $36.

(And before people ask, yes, there were volumes 1-3, but they are only available on VHS tape, and do not have English subtitles. If interested, I can order anyone a set.)

Malcolm

[JetAge Studio]

You're welcome Malcolm....wow, I didn't know you had all that other media on Tonbo-Dama avail!! :) Something to think about for sure! (BTW,I'm STILL totally diggin' the book I got from you in Tucson last Feb, which is why I posted the link! :kiss: )
Reading about Tonbo-Dama definitely helped me to be a better artist, and understand Japanese-style methodical, cane building process. It's truly amazing with unlimited possibilities. Another great thing about torch building cane that I found, is that because you're working with "flowing" glass, you can really manipulate the final outcome....not just rely on what the heat-work does in the kiln! :) Geeze, now I sound like an info-mercial! :)
Renee

[ArtcoInc]

Renee,

Did you see the workshop we're hosting? We've got Norikazu Kogure, the author of the Tombo-Dama book, doing two workshops here in the SF Bay Area just before the Gathering:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90766

Malcolm