Propane tank Explosion(s)

[Dale M.]

http://www.brucegoldfarb.com/propane.htm
http://www.mcmua.com/HazardousWaste/FAQ_Propane.htm
http://www.nunatsiaq.com/archives/nunavut991130/nvt91119_05.html
http://www.newsreview.com/issues/chico/2003-02-13/follow.asp
http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_304183137.html
http://server.firehouse.com/training/hazmat/studies/1996/07_wi.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/baycitynews/archive/2005/10/31/missionfire31.DTL
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.csb.gov/images/herrig_img.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.csb.gov/index.cfm%3Ffolder%3Dcompleted_investigations%26pa ge%3Dinfo%26INV_ID%3D31&h=390&w=480&sz=165&tbnid=swUHfKlVaPoJ:&tbnh=102&tbnw=126&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpropane%2Btank%2Bexplosion%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.eastnorthumberland.com/temps/041229jul-boatfire.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eastnorthumberland.com/news/news2004/December/041229july.html&h=149&w=250&sz=9&tbnid=bDkEX3xqLpMJ:&tbnh=63&tbnw=106&hl=en&start=6&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpropane%2Btank%2Bexplosion%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ktvl.com/pictures/1120515103-gp%2520explosion%2520fire.JPG&imgrefurl=http://ktvl.com/engine.pl%3Fstation%3Dktvl%26id%3D9179%26template% 3Dbreakoutlocal.html&h=210&w=280&sz=29&tbnid=68Hk_UxpvtsJ:&tbnh=81&tbnw=109&hl=en&start=9&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpropane%2Btank%2Bexplosion%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
Edit to Add:
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=45&id=12589
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3737/is_200409/ai_n9449742

[MikeAurelius]

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Thanks Dale!

[Heather/Ericaceae]

Thanks Dale! All these are scary but I think the most important one for LE readers is the first one... One 20lb BBQ tank can blow up a whole house, and kill people. No-one wants that to happen, so I hope that anyone who is still stubbornly keeping their tanks inside will reflect and renew their efforts to find a safer way!!! Heather

[Dale M.]

Here is some live action shots... Granted its from a law firm web site but still the graphic proof is there....

http://www.foleymansfield.com/FireExplosions.html

Dale

[SL Beads]

Dear Dale M.: When you have your studio in the basement, what is the best way to bring down the gas from the propane tank outside on the ground level? Does the pressure in the hose change because of the level difference? I would appreciate your opinion. Thanks a whole bunch. Sachiko

[Dale M.]

The best solution is not to have studio in basement.

Next best thing is to keep propane tank OUTSIDE. IT is only legal to bring propane into a residence (basement or not) at a pressure of 20psi or less and it has to be in metallic piping (actually 5psi is probably a more than sufficient pressure).

You have to remember that propane is a heavier than air fuel and it will pool at lowest place it can settle. So if you must have studio in basement, tank has to be outside and you should shut off tank valve whenever you finish a torching session to prevent a leak into basement.

Dale

[meadowesky]

question for you all... my FinLaw says that propane will kindof freeze- not sure what he means by that but is it true? If it is super cold where I live will it be okay outside? and I dont understand the point of it being outside if it is right by the house? Or is there a better way to place it? Will I have any problems with the hoses deteriorating? I know that sunlight can do that. Thanks a bunch!

[meadowesky]

OMG! that video scared the crap out of me! I have a 2 year old little girl and I totally need to move that tank NOW! So where do I put it? My bench is in front of a window. Is it safe to have it right outside of the window? The gas (if it leaked) would not be inside.

[MikeAurelius]

Propane won't freeze in US winters unless you are in the upper reaches of Alaska. However, you do lose tank pressure as the temperature drops - anything below -10 air temperature and you may have to provide supplemental heat to warm the tank and contents.

You shouldn't use hoses with an outside tank - the hoses can and do deteriorate - you should use a hard line - flexible metal line to a metal pipe through the wall and use hoses inside.

[meadowesky]

thanks I will check into doing that. Unfortunately I cant drill a hole in this wall (renting our house) but I close in 2 weeks on our first house so then I can do whatever I want! WooHoo!

[Dale M.]

Having propane tank outside, any leaking gas vapor will be diluted by dissipation because of outside air movement... Even on totally calm day there is air movement and there for dilution of vapors. This process does not allow vapors to accumulate and possibly become a explosive mass of vapor.... It only takes 5% to 14% propane in air to make a explosion... Any propane leaking inside, form tank inside or faulty hose or connection allows propane to accumulate in low areas along floors or into any other low area (basements), these areas, when become saturated with enough propane mixed with air only need a spark or flame (appliance pilot light) to explode.

Dale

[meadowesky]

so what about when i bleed my line after I am done? Is that all staying in my studio? I am new to this whole safety thing. When I didnt have a small child it wasnt my top priority. (yes, I know, BAD BAD) My FinLaw says to bleed both of my hoses but it worries me each time i do it

[Dale M.]

so what about when i bleed my line after I am done? Is that all staying in my studio? I am new to this whole safety thing. When I didnt have a small child it wasnt my top priority. (yes, I know, BAD BAD) My FinLaw says to bleed both of my hoses but it worries me each time i do it

With your ventilation running bleeding lines is not a issue, the amount of propane releases in process will be sucked out and dissipated in outside environment... Besides it is actually a very small amount.....

Dale

[Quicksilverart]

Just how far outside should the tank be? Judging by that first post, it wouldn't much matter where the tank was located when it blew. Or does the outside air distribute the leaking gases to the point where it is beyond danger? And by this reasoning, placing the tank in a box outside the house would invalidate the idea of placing the tank outside by simply concentrating the gases in different spot? Oh, Wise Ones who have studied this more than I, please give me answers.

[Dale M.]

Just how far outside should the tank be? Judging by that first post, it wouldn't much matter where the tank was located when it blew. Or does the outside air distribute the leaking gases to the point where it is beyond danger? And by this reasoning, placing the tank in a box outside the house would invalidate the idea of placing the tank outside by simply concentrating the gases in different spot? Oh, Wise Ones who have studied this more than I, please give me answers.

Just being outside the house is 1000% safer than being inside house.... Further from house is better, but there is also a practical aspect to distance also....Also being outside emergency service workers (fire) can SEE the tank so it is safer for emergency service worker as they are aware of its existence. And as for enclosing tank in some sort of container for protection of tank or for yard beautification is not a problem IF one remembers to put VENT holes in base of storage container. Since propane is heavier than air it seeps out bottom of enclosure and air movement at ground level dilutes and dissipates the propane to a safe level.... Also any enclosed outside storage should be labeled as FLAMMABLE GAS storage so emergence service workers (fire personnel) are aware of its existence....

All this information had been covered in many message thread on safety on all the major glass forums on the internet.... Diligent research will confirm these basic rules if you care to research this in depth.

Dale

[Sue in Maine]

I'm adding three more things here.

1) My tank sits on a cement pad. It's a patio square that I bought on purpose. Maine Oxy told me I had to have that, rather than sitting the tank directly on the lawn.

2) My tank is chained to the side of my steps.

3) My tank gauges are covered to keep the weather elements (aka snow in Maine!) off them.

Sue

[MikeAurelius]

I would remove the chain from the tank -- if there is a fire in the house, the emergency personnel will have to use bolt cutters to remove the tank so it can be safely moved.

Remember, if there is a fire, the safest thing to do is get the tank as far away from the house/studio as possible!

[CharleneN]

I keep my propane tank outside and I have an explosive gas alarm on the floor under my torch and flashback arrestors inside my studio. If I used Natural Gas I would have it on the wall above.

These things only cost about $60 for a combo C0/Gas alarm. If placed on the floor like mine, it would not monitor the C0 however as that is lighter than air. I think it's well worth the investment for that little extra protection.

Thanks to all of you safety gurus!

[meadowesky]

Thanks I will check into that!

[Rose Leslie]

Now I wonder where I can put my propane tank? I have my torch in front of a window. I can put it out side on the other side of the dog run. That is on gravel. But the piping is another thing. I need to find out how to do it. I can only go through the window to put the pipe in. Does it have to be metal. Can it be PVC pipe? Just another question. I want to work but haven't in a while because of this.

[Dale M.]

You can bring in low pressure propane through door or window as long as you disconnect it when done and remove hose.

I am not aware of any plastics at this time that are legal for wall penetrations or through window or door applications... The problem with most plastics is they are not UV safe and deteriorate when exposed to sun light.

Dale

[Tanya]

Ok, now I'm seriously paranoid. I just ordered 2 propane detectors, one for my studio (which is part of the house, but sits on a slab rather than over the basement) and one for our basement since we have a propane hot water heater. It never occured to me that the smelly stuff might not smell!