oxygen concentrator reliability - no vendors please !!!

[Good Ol' Boy]

oxygen concentrator vendors input NOT WELCOME HERE !!!

I will be attending the Gathering next month. I always enjoy this event. There is so much to be learned in just a few days. Great beads and beautiful people.
My question has to do with the reliability of oxygen concentrators. I see vendors or resellers putting warranties on there equipment for X amount of years.
I would like to hear from users of the machines of how long they actually run before they malfunctioned. I would like to know what type of machine failed during the warranty period.. Did the machine arrive DOA and had to be repaired before you had a chance to use it. Did it work a few days, weeks or months? Was oxygen purity an issue, what type of torches are being used.

VENDOR INPUT NOT WELCOME !!!
I am looking for customer feedback ( all types )

I'm Go'in fishin

[polka dottie]

i am interested as well. i am on tanked oxygen now but the large canisters are a problem to get in and out of the house since we moved. a concentrator would be much easier but i hesitate to switch from tanked. so, i will be watching this tread and hoping for some feedback...kath

[pam]

I have an OG-20 running a Cheetah. I have had it for at least 3 years. One malfunction - operator error - was fixed in 3 minutes (turned a knob without pulling it out first, thus pulling a tube off - just had to take the cover off and push the tube back on).

[oldschooltofu]

i have 3 Unlimited O2 huricanes.

the first one had to be sent back within the first 2 weeks for fixing.
the second one worked fine when i got it
the third one had to be sent back to be fixed also.
dont know what the actual problems were.

UO took care of all shipping to and from and i now have 3 working generators.
the oldest one has been working for almost a year without any problems. the other two have been running for about 6 months with no problems.

1 huricane will power 1 lynx 100% or 2 lynxes with a little push/pull in the higher O2 flames
2 huricanes (T'd together) will power 3 lynxes 100% with very little push/pull, or will power a phantom at 90-95%, or a Carlile CC at 85-90%. it all depends on your torch settings and how fast you want to work.

i am still waiting for my 4th huricane so that i can power 6 lynxes with 4 huricanes.
i am still waiting for my complimentary 1st filter replacements.

i highly suggest using GTTs on generators because they are the most efficent torches and use less O2 than a carlile, national or minor. knowing how to use your blue valve and turning down your green valve makes these torches very efficent and able to run on less oxygen which enables you to hook up 2 lynxes to 1 huricane and still be able to work at about the same speed.

These machines cannot be switched on and off lots of times a day....they are better if you turn them on and work for 1-4 hours. once you shut them off you have to wait 10 min before you turn them back on.

they sound like window air conditioners. i can barely hear them over my fan and music.

[Shane]

I'm running a Mini CC on a 5LPM Devilbiss Oxycon. So far so good, absolutely no problems. Due to the economy I went with the cheapest one I could find.

[Beckah]

Ran a MiniCC on an Unlimited Oxygen M10 for about 18 months. It worked great for the first few months (January to May) then the strength of the flame decreased significantly. May is when the humidity and temperatures started to be quite high in Florida and I was running it in my garage. When the weather cooled and became drier, the flame re-strengthened but was never as strong as it had been originally and the flame had become very reducing.

The M-10 was replaced by a Regalia which I've had for a year. Dealing with Pyronamix was fabulous. The oxycon arrived in less than a week from the order date. It was extremely well-packaged. And best of all, the Regalia has run beautifully for the past year.

[Dale M.]

As a general rule, oxygen concentrators are designed to run 24/7 for several years with only minimum maintenance (changing filters).... When you think about this... If original manufacturer warranties machine for say 3 years, that is about 26,280 hours of continuous operation .. Remember these machines are designed for sustaining people lives, they have to be reliable..... A rebuilt "pumped up" machine may produce more oxygen, the flip side is reliability may go down.... But then again your life does not depend on this machine....

Dale

[Ellen Black]

Run my torch on 2 DeVilbiss Solaris concentrators for 5 years, maybe longer.
Been very happy.

If you are going to be at the Gathering, be sure to go to open torch. There will be opportunity to see and try out torches running on concentrators and generators there. As well as tanked oxy.

[maddog1050]

I have three oxycons. My Regalia and Oxybox-13 (Airsep) are y'd together and I run my Phantom on these - no tanked oxygen. I love these two machines and they work great together. I also used this setup for two of my other larger torches, a Barracuda and a Knight Little Dragon 21. They are quiet and reliable and give me enough power for my work even without tanks. The customer service from Kimberly and a company called B.T.E.S. respectively were excellent. Other than washing out the foam filters, I've had no other maintenance.

Along the way I purchased a new Psyclone (UO) generator based on reviews of it being capable of large capacity output. Initially I was happy with it, although it was very noisy. But after about a year it started to rumble and shake but even worse, caused my flame to fluctuate a lot. I checked to make sure the filters were still correctly seated-they were. Other than that, I can't think of anything to check on my own. The unit is large and very heavy so I can't imagine packing it up and sending it somewhere to be looked at. I've read mixed reviews on these units. So it sits in my closet. Maybe some day when I'm in the mood I'll haul it out and give it another try. It could have been weather, humidity or whatever.

That's my experience. Hope that helps and good luck.

[Good Ol' Boy]

I am curious to know approximately how many hours you were able to use the new psyclone machine before it began to " shake, rattle N roll "
Shouldn't the people you bought this machine take some responsibility to get it running again ? Did the unit have any kind of a warranty on it.
Sounds like a lot of money and aggrevation to end up using it as a closet fixture.

[nagibeads]

I have had my Onyx+ for about 3 1/2 years now and it runs great.
Kinda pricey but no malfunctions so far, knock wood.

[Mr. Smiley]

I have three oxycons. My Regalia and Oxybox-13 (Airsep) are y'd together and I run my Phantom on these - no tanked oxygen. I love these two machines and they work great together. I also used this setup for two of my other larger torches, a Barracuda and a Knight Little Dragon 21. They are quiet and reliable and give me enough power for my work even without tanks. The customer service from Kimberly and a company called B.T.E.S. respectively were excellent. Other than washing out the foam filters, I've had no other maintenance.

Along the way I purchased a new Psyclone (UO) generator based on reviews of it being capable of large capacity output. Initially I was happy with it, although it was very noisy. But after about a year it started to rumble and shake but even worse, caused my flame to fluctuate a lot. I checked to make sure the filters were still correctly seated-they were. Other than that, I can't think of anything to check on my own. The unit is large and very heavy so I can't imagine packing it up and sending it somewhere to be looked at. I've read mixed reviews on these units. So it sits in my closet. Maybe some day when I'm in the mood I'll haul it out and give it another try. It could have been weather, humidity or whatever.

That's my experience. Hope that helps and good luck.

I would pull it out, give Jack a call and see if it's an easy fix. If not, I'd send it in and have it fixed. It's under warranty. ;)

[Good Ol' Boy]

I would pull it out, give Jack a call and see if it's an easy fix. If not, I'd send it in and have it fixed. It's under warranty. ;)

I asked vendors to stay out of this thread.:rolleyes: This means YOU Mr. Smiley.=;

I think this lady is smart enough to figure out what to do. At the rate these machines are breaking down there is surely a back order on warranty repairs
at the UO fix, patch and blame shop.

Mr. Smiley - stay out of this thread so we do not have vendors muck it up with bickering and cheap stabs at one another. Send a PM if you need to.
I would hope you would respect this forum and its members enough to pedal your goods elsewhere.

I'm Go'in Fishin

[beadgoodies]

I have an Invacare 5. I bought it used off eBay in 2002. I've NEVER had any problems with it and I runs my Midrange just fine (though I'm always told it shouldn't). I'm It currently has 7,013 hours on it. My sister also bought an Invacare 5 and she hasn't had any issues with hers either.

Candy

[Mr. Smiley]

I asked vendors to stay out of this thread.:rolleyes: This means YOU Mr. Smiley.=;

I think this lady is smart enough to figure out what to do. At the rate these machines are breaking down there is surely a back order on warranty repairs
at the UO fix, patch and blame shop.

Mr. Smiley - stay out of this thread so we do not have vendors muck it up with bickering and cheap stabs at one another. Send a PM if you need to.
I would hope you would respect this forum and its members enough to pedal your goods elsewhere.

I'm Go'in Fishin

The only one getting nasty here is you. I can post in any thread I want to. I merely gave somebody (not even my customer), some advise on getting a unit fixed. If you want vendors to stay out completely, you'll have to start your own forum and then you can control who posts. I have honored your request not to post my experience with my machines. I am actually a glass worker / end user and I do have an experience to post, but I'm a vendor too, so I didn't post my positive experience.

I'd tell you to stop being so crabby, but I can't control your attitude any more than you can control when and where I post. Have a nice day.

[Mr. Smiley]

Just a quick search of YOUR posts show that you seem to ONLY chime in on Oxycons and you always seem to have contact info for ONE company in particular.

Who's using this forum to exclusively peddle their wares? I melt glass and talk about all sorts of things... what else do you talk about?

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2272589

[Dennis Brady]

Just a quick search of YOUR posts show that you seem to ONLY chime in on Oxycons and you always seem to have contact info for ONE company in particular.

Who's using this forum to exclusively peddle their wares? I melt glass and talk about all sorts of things... what else do you talk about?

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2272589

Who is "Good Ol' Boy"?

[Mr. Smiley]

Who is "Good Ol' Boy"?

I've asked before and he doesn't want to answer... the company he always plugs is in Virginia... and guess where his IP traces him to? Yep... you guessed it.

What is he hiding? Why is he hiding? The world may never know...

I sure do wish all the nastiness would end. I certainly don't enjoy being attacked for being nice and giving somebody advice. I can think of much better ways to spend my days. ;)

[Dennis Brady]

I've asked before and he doesn't want to answer... the company he always plugs is in Virginia... and guess where his IP traces him to? Yep... you guessed it.

What is he hiding? Why is he hiding? The world may never know...

I sure do wish all the nastiness would end. I certainly don't enjoy being attacked for being nice and giving somebody advice. I can think of much better ways to spend my days. ;)

There will always be with us those whose marketing strategy relies heavily on denigrating their competition. That practice is as repugnant in business as it is in politics.

I also can think of better ways to spend my days but believe this petty practice should be neither condoned nor tolerated but confronted whenever its foul face appears. I add to that my suggestion that any poster that declines to identify themself should be viewed as irrelevant and inconsequential.

I suggest readers of this thread ask themself why someone would post a request that vendors not participate in a discussion about oxycons then begin trash talking a specific vendor.

[Good Ol' Boy]

just got back from fishin,

caught lots today.
Got me a Carp, named him Mr. Smiley
Got me a Sucker, named him Mr. Brady
Threw them both back, Both ugly and not worth spending any time on.
Both R bottom feeders ya know and leave a bad after taste.
I make beads as a hobbie, who I am is none of your business. I am not a vendor and have made no mention of any and don't want to hear from any.
I hope to learn some information from fellow beadmakers
NOT from you two BUTTHEADS


I'm Go'in Fishin

[loco]

just got back from fishin,

caught lots today.
Got me a Carp, named him Mr. Smiley
Got me a Sucker, named him Mr. Brady
Threw them both back, Both ugly and not worth spending any time on.
Both R bottom feeders ya know and leave a bad after taste.
I make beads as a hobbie, who I am is none of your business. I am not a vendor and have made no mention of any and don't want to hear from any.
I hope to learn some information from fellow beadmakers
NOT from you two BUTTHEADS


I'm Go'in Fishin

Wow..... You just invalidated yourself. Congratulations while it normally takes 10 times your post number for me to file anyone into the asshole category, your a weiner!

I know you really don't care, but TRY to realize I have only said less than 4 negative things about posters since I've been here, and it's been since day dot.. Three years. Ummmmm makes me wonder.....

Edited to add: I read your posts and I agree I'm going fishing! Fish hard or soak a bait!
131811

[Good Ol' Boy]

This was the original question below. I am considering upgrading my oxygen supply. Reliability is important to me, as well as purity and pressure.
I do not care what a vendor has to say in this instance. When you are asked to stand down, the attacks and name calling starts up, accusations are made.
You gentlemen need to get Real. :lol::lol::lol:
I want the steak, not the sizzle Mr.Brady. :doubt:
I will be at the gathering and would like to speak to real people who can give me some insight, . You can pm me.
This thread is in the process of being hijacked by the two vendors that sell oxygen generators. This is what they do.



I am more interested now more than ever to find out the answer to my question from users, non brand specific,non vendor specific of these machines and what works good.


LETS STAY ON TOPIC

I'm Go'in fishin :-\":-\":-\"


oxygen concentrator vendors input NOT WELCOME HERE !!!

I will be attending the Gathering next month. I always enjoy this event. There is so much to be learned in just a few days. Great beads and beautiful people.
My question has to do with the reliability of oxygen concentrators. I see vendors or resellers putting warranties on there equipment for X amount of years.
I would like to hear from users of the machines of how long they actually run before they malfunctioned. I would like to know what type of machine failed during the warranty period.. Did the machine arrive DOA and had to be repaired before you had a chance to use it. Did it work a few days, weeks or months? Was oxygen purity an issue, what type of torches are being used.

VENDOR INPUT NOT WELCOME !!!
I am looking for customer feedback ( all types )

I'm Go'in fishin

[Mr. Smiley]

If there isn't blood on the deck, you really didn't catch anything worth while. :lol: Great picture Loco!

I guess it really doesn't matter who you are Good Ole Boy. After your tirade, I highly doubt anybody is gonna pay you much attention. Larry and Justin aren't here any more because they treated people the same way you do. Keep it up and you can join them. LE is a great place for everybody to share information, but we do try to weed out the truly nasty folks. I wish you the best life has to offer... seems you could use a little more happiness in your life. ;)

[Good Ol' Boy]

Threats, intimidation and personal attacks, is that the level you are sinking to Mr. Smiley, Par for the course I suppose. This what you do when people want information. Shame on You !! You are a BULLY

This is a good place to share information. So why don't you let us members do just that.

I am going to stay on topic :waving:

[Cosmo]

I'd love to give my opinion, since I worked and taught classes on concentrators for the better part of two years straight (probably 50+ hours a week on those concentrators in that time). But, I sold a few concentrators a while back, so I guess that disqualifies me...

[Mr. Smiley]

Threats and intimidation, is that the level you are sinking to Mr. Smiley, Par for the course I suppose.

This is a good place to share information. So why don't you let us members do just that.

I am going to stay on topic :waving:

I am a member too and I did honor your request to keep my review out of this thread. I still don't understand how giving somebody advise and trying to help them made you mad. I'm not threatening you... just letting you know that your name calling is not welcome. If I intimidate you, it's not intentional. You're the only one beating your chest and getting demanding.

[Good Ol' Boy]

You do not intimidate me. Your more of an annoyance
BTW I have a Great life and am a very happy person. I have made requests that you construe as demands and that not my problem.

Let people feel free enough to partisipate in a question instead of trying to
disinterest them and run them off.
Members should not have to be made to feel uncomfortable because you do not know how to back off.

[Good Ol' Boy]

I'd love to give my opinion, since I worked and taught classes on concentrators for the better part of two years straight (probably 50+ hours a week on those concentrators in that time). But, I sold a few concentrators a while back, so I guess that disqualifies me...

I would be interested to hear whatever it is you have to contribute. If you use to deal with machines and are not a concentrator vendor now them I would imagine you would have good information to share.
I would love to keep this disscussion on topic.[-o<

[Mr. Smiley]

You do not intimidate me. Your more of an annoyance
BTW I have a Great life and am a very happy person. I have made requests that you construe as demands and that not my problem.

Let people feel free enough to partisipate in a question instead of trying to
disinterest them and run them off.
Members should not have to be made to feel uncomfortable because you do not know how to back off.

You hijacked your own thread and turned it ugly. I offered advise to a fellow glass blower having an issue. I would have done that for anybody in any thread.

[Sherena]

This might have been an informative thread for others, yet again...senseless denouncing and vituperation has taken over.

I wonder if consumers will ever get to see feedback from a strictly consumers standpoint.

I have been following the countless threads on the Oxygen Concentrators. I have been in the market for one to purchase for the last year. I am taking my time trying to decide on what I should purchase and from which vendor, I am interested in user reviews, as to help me make an informed decision. Reading threads like this has made me shy away from making a purchase from any one vendor for any particular concentrator.

When I buy any new piece of equipment or tool that is of any significant value I like to read non-biased reviews. For example - on buying a new SLR camera I read many reviews from various sources. I valued the user reviews. I never once saw the vendors offer their point of view or offer advice while reading "user review" sections. Another example - When we bought tools to renovate our house, we read reviews and made our decision based on the information of other peoples experience with those specific tools. I am sure the examples could go on.....

Do you read reviews from the manufacturers and vendors of cars when you are looking to buy one? or do you like to hear and read what other people have to say about the car without biased input???

As there is no place yet other than Forums to gain information from users of specific Oxygen concentrators and how they would review them, this is probably a good of venue to start in.

Maybe someone (non-vendor specific) could make a webpage, list the oxygen concentrators out there that are in use by the lampworking community and have it enabled so that users can write reviews and rate the oxygen concentrators.

Understanding how others are using the oxygen concentrators, what torch they are using, how long they have been using the concentrator for and the reliability issue - is valuable information for everyone.

[Mr. Smiley]

This might have been an informative thread for others, yet again...senseless denouncing and vituperation has taken over.

I wonder if consumers will ever get to see feedback from a strictly consumers standpoint.

I have been following the countless threads on the Oxygen Concentrators. I have been in the market for one to purchase for the last year. I am taking my time trying to decide on what I should purchase and from which vendor, I am interested in user reviews, as to help me make an informed decision. Reading threads like this has made me shy away from making a purchase from any one vendor for any particular concentrator.

When I buy any new piece of equipment or tool that is of any significant value I like to read non-biased reviews. For example - on buying a new SLR camera I read many reviews from various sources. I valued the user reviews. I never once saw the vendors offer their point of view or offer advice while reading "user review" sections. Another example - When we bought tools to renovate our house, we read reviews and made our decision based on the information of other peoples experience with those specific tools. I am sure the examples could go on.....

Do you read reviews from the manufacturers and vendors of cars when you are looking to buy one? or do you like to hear and read what other people have to say about the car without biased input???

As there is no place yet other than Forums to gain information from users of specific Oxygen concentrators and how they would review them, this is probably a good of venue to start in.

Maybe someone (non-vendor specific) could make a webpage, list the oxygen concentrators out there that are in use by the lampworking community and have it enabled so that users can write reviews and rate the oxygen concentrators.

Understanding how others are using the oxygen concentrators, what torch they are using, how long they have been using the concentrator for and the reliability issue - is valuable information for everyone.

This sounds like a fantastic idea!

I'm just as tired of the negativity as everybody else. My apologies to you and everybody who has had to try and sort things out. It really shouldn't be this hard to figure out what will suit your needs. As far as I'm concerned, there really isn't a wrong choice. There's pros and cons to every concentrator on the market. I hope everybody finds something they are happy with. :love:

[GLASSFREEK]

Wow..... You just invalidated yourself. Congratulations while it normally takes 10 times your post number for me to file anyone into the asshole category, your a weiner!

I know you really don't care, but TRY to realize I have only said less than 4 negative things about posters since I've been here, and it's been since day dot.. Three years. Ummmmm makes me wonder.....

Edited to add: I read your posts and I agree I'm going fishing! Fish hard or soak a bait!
131811
Thats alot of blood there girl,me thinks I will nor go fishing with you couse what you may use for bait might meen I wont be comming back from fishing :)
Grow up good ol boy

Mike

[terryl]

Getting back to the question at hand, I love oxygen concentrators, but I have had my ups and downs with them. I first had the Unlimited Oxygen's
M5 which I personally would not recommend simply because it is just too small. It barely fuels a minor burner. I used it for six months until it just suddenly died in the middle of the night while torching...no warning....just made a loud bang and died. It was still under warranty. The manufacturer made good on the warranty, but I had to pay shipping back to them which was $50 plus I had to find something to ship it in. I don't know how the one person who posted on this thread got them to pay return shipping....they absolutely refused to do this. But they did let me pay the difference and upgrade that unit for their M10 which I used nonstop for 9 months until I sold it to a friend who says it is working fine. Another friend has this model and has used it for three years. Six months ago I upgraded to a hurricane from Unlimited Oxygen. So far I love it. It is loud and sometimes it shakes and makes noises but usually smoothes out. I look at it sometimes and wonder if it is about to die but like I said this usually stops after a few minutes. It is powering a lynx beautifully. You get used to the noise and you will not even notice it. It did take a long time for the manufacturer to get me this particular model and several phone calls to find out where my unit was. Right now, I am having a minor issue since I paid for filters that have never been shipped although they charged my credit card. I have had this problem before trying to get filters from this manufacturer shipped as well. There are definate drawbacks to the concentrator thing, but to me not having to deal with tanks and trying to find a supplier in a rural area is a blessing. Now that I have given praise to my Unlimited Oxygen Hurricane I need to go knock on wood so I don't encourage the wrath of the glass gods or cause a cosmic lemon cloud to befall my unit. Further advice to anyone buying a concentrator....cause eventually you will have trouble just like eventually your car is gonna break down....if there is anyway possible save the packing box the concentrator comes in.

[G.L.McBead]

You hijacked your own thread and turned it ugly. I offered advise to a fellow glass blower having an issue. I would have done that for anybody in any thread.
Thank you,
I'm always happy to hear what you have to say.( I for one think you know a little about glass and tools and find your info very valuble.)
Thanks,
G.

[pam]

While at the Gathering I heard the Regalia running at open torch and I was overwhelmed by how quiet it was, compared to my OG20. If I win the lottery I would really like to try the Regalia paired with the Cheetah. Although obviously the noise doesn't bother some people, it does bother me.

[Mr. Smiley]

I can post! Woohooo!

Since I'm no longer going to spend my time taking orders my opinion is valid. I can't tell you how much better I feel about myself... I was wandering around aimlessly, missing my credibility. :P

I've had two Unlimited Oxygen M20's for almost 3 years and they power my Bethlehem Barracuda wonderfully! I have not had a single issue and they are still going strong! I use them alomost every day in a very humid dirty environment. Love UO for giving me what I need to power a mid sized torch and work boro all day long. :love:

[bgurden]

it really looks like good ol boy was fishing for mr smiley. he put the bait out there and waited to see if he would respond. i did buy my m15 from mr smiley and he was great. my concentrator did have a problem with the area where you attached your hose and it was taken care of. i am not a vendor. i like my m15. i have looked at the regalia but do not want to spend almost twice as much to get a product that is pretty similar to the m15. i know the regalia is new and it is digital but why buy a caddy when the chevy works just fine.i suspect the markup on the regalia is at least double the wholesale cost.its marketed to those who want the 'best" product and all posts by the vendor who sells it is aimed at discrediting the m15. i think the reason why=major competition.

[bgurden]

oh,
regarding high humidity and the m15 i torch in my garage and keep the concentrator in the mudd room next to the garage. the humidity is controlled as is the temperature and the concentrator likes that.

[pam]

Bgurden, I'm glad you are enjoying your M-15 and I won't argue that someone may have been trying to drag Brent into the thread, as I really don't know. However, I can say that Kimberly has good scientific data behind her position with regard to the Unlimited Oxygen concentrators, as she has stated many times. You can choose to believe them or not, and that is fine, but I think it is sad that you would think and state that the only reason she believes the way she does is because of competition. Perhaps my opinion is based on the fact that I know her and I know how high her ethical standards are in regard to her business. I'm sorry to see this thread once again take a turn to attempting to sully a person's reputation instead of sticking to the subject of concentrators.

[Mr. Smiley]

Bgurden, I'm glad you are enjoying your M-15 and I won't argue that someone may have been trying to drag Brent into the thread, as I really don't know. However, I can say that Kimberly has good scientific data behind her position with regard to the Unlimited Oxygen concentrators, as she has stated many times. You can choose to believe them or not, and that is fine, but I think it is sad that you would think and state that the only reason she believes the way she does is because of competition. Perhaps my opinion is based on the fact that I know her and I know how high her ethical standards are in regard to her business. I'm sorry to see this thread once again take a turn to attempting to sully a person's reputation instead of sticking to the subject of concentrators.

Sad to see it? Really? I've seen you and her try to do some sullying yourself. From torches to concentrators... to people with a different opinion. I guess the only ethical people are the ones you agree with... all others are worth tearing apart. Now I don't have a monetary dog in the fight... and as far as my opinion goes... it's unchanged. I still think UO units are the best bang for the buck and I'll use them in my studio for the rest of my days... and I won't hesitate to refer my friends to use them too. :love:

[clutter73]

Mr Smiley - take a look at my thread on Betta's and Oxygen. I need some suggestions and I'd highly appreciate your input.

[pam]

And so the trend continues.

Sorry, Brent, but I think it's been quite a while since I spoke harshly about UO. I met and spoke with Jack at the Gathering and he seems to be a really nice guy. Even he admitted at the beginning the UO concentrators were having major problems. I think he is making every effort to produce a quality product now and I have heard of very few problems with his later machines.

Do I still believe that fundamentally it is a flawed design to rig a machine to produce more than it should? Yes, and that opinion on my part came from discussions with five different engineers who each said that the lifespan of the units would be shortened drastically, and feedback from users who purchased the units when they were first produced. What Jack is doing now with the units, I don't know, but the feedback among many who are using the newer units has definitely improved.

As far as you go, Brent, I think you are a very talented artist who speaks passionately about whatever it is he believes in. Sometimes I agree with those opinions and sometimes I don't. It would be a very sad and uninformed world if everyone agreed about everything all the time.

[Dennis Brady]

all posts by the vendor who sells it is aimed at discrediting the m15. i think the reason why=major competition.

Is it really that obvious?

[Mr. Smiley]

And so the trend continues.

Sorry, Brent, but I think it's been quite a while since I spoke harshly about UO. I met and spoke with Jack at the Gathering and he seems to be a really nice guy. Even he admitted at the beginning the UO concentrators were having major problems. I think he is making every effort to produce a quality product now and I have heard of very few problems with his later machines.

Do I still believe that fundamentally it is a flawed design to rig a machine to produce more than it should? Yes, and that opinion on my part came from discussions with five different engineers who each said that the lifespan of the units would be shortened drastically, and feedback from users who purchased the units when they were first produced. What Jack is doing now with the units, I don't know, but the feedback among many who are using the newer units has definitely improved.

As far as you go, Brent, I think you are a very talented artist who speaks passionately about whatever it is he believes in. Sometimes I agree with those opinions and sometimes I don't. It would be a very sad and uninformed world if everyone agreed about everything all the time.

I think we're all pretty passionate... heck, we're artists. It just kinda gets my goat when a pot calls the kettle black. We should all be allowed to speak our minds and support what we believe in. I support UO because I've tested them... tested them HARD! I'm not sure what tests the engineers you spoke to have done and maybe they're just guessing about what these mods are... nobody but Jack really knows what they are doing to these machines to increase their output and I doubt he's going to broadcast his trade secrets for review. Jack is a really nice guy. He's never denied the problems they've had along the way and he is constantly making improvements. That's all my argument has been all along.

and since Kimberly's data has been called into the discussion, let's look at that for a moment. No, I'm not going to tear it apart. I'm going to assume it's right for the purpose of a little comparison. She has said the M-15 puts out good purity at 6 LPM... Ok, so two M-15s would be around $1200 (give or take) delivered to the US and according to her numbers, they will give you 12 LPM at @15 PSI. That is still more flow and pressure than a Regalia and you've got about $300 left over to spend on glass... or maybe a tank of gas... so even with those lower flow rates, UO is still a better deal. I know mine perform better than 6 LPM, but hey, worst case scenario... UO still makes sense.

[Tobias]

I have a hurricane that I use with a lynx...works great, almost identical to compressed tanks. My colors are great...better than I got with my barracuda and tanks actually. There is a lack of that super crazy high end scream the lynx can get on tanks but I don't like or use that flame anyways. I can make everything I make in the same amount of time I was able with tanks.

I think Jack is a good guy and is trying to make our costs lower and save our backs by keeping us from moving tanks around. If everyone trashes him for trying to make a stronger machine and he stops trying...we will be stuck with low output medical units or spending 6k on real generators.

I've had my hurricane for about 4 months...it's already paid for itself and saving me money. I'm not a 1 year noob talking out of my butt about colors and performance either...10 years and 9 torches behind me, i'm not a great glass maker but i've seen alot. This concentrator war makes me feel like i'm at a presidential debate...isn't this supposed to be fun?

[Mr. Smiley]

I have a hurricane that I use with a lynx...works great, almost identical to compressed tanks. My colors are great...better than I got with my barracuda and tanks actually. There is a lack of that super crazy high end scream the lynx can get on tanks but I don't like or use that flame anyways. I can make everything I make in the same amount of time I was able with tanks.

I think Jack is a good guy and is trying to make our costs lower and save our backs by keeping us from moving tanks around. If everyone trashes him for trying to make a stronger machine and he stops trying...we will be stuck with low output medical units or spending 6k on real generators.

I've had my hurricane for about 4 months...it's already paid for itself and saving me money. I'm not a 1 year noob talking out of my butt about colors and performance either...10 years and 9 torches behind me, i'm not a great glass maker but i've seen alot. This concentrator war makes me feel like i'm at a presidential debate...isn't this supposed to be fun?

=D>=D>=D> Well stated...

I've got a Hurricane on the way and I'm going to use it to step up a torch size or two... Can't wait. Lugging tanks sucks. I did it for too many years and I need more power than a medical unit or a Regalia will provide. For most larger torches, pressure is just as important as volume. Sure, I could go with an Onsite beast... but I don't have that much money to drop... or space.

[pam]

Hi Brent, thanks for your reply. I am passionate about what I believe it, as you are. Most of the time my passions are, perhaps, more "generic" than yours. I want all of our beadmakers to be able to make a purchase that is right for them; kiln, torch, concentrator or whatever. Although I do support those purchases I have made, as you do, I do try to remember that what others want out of a piece of equipment, whatever it is, may be different than what I want.

Just for your information, the engineers I spoke to had no first-hand experience with the machine at all, but just the overall idea of taking a machine that produces one outcome and forcing it to produce something higher. As you just said, Jack obviously had problems with his machines early on as forecasted by those engineers. However, either he has changed what he is doing or he has found a way to, perhaps, make whatever he was doing work. I don't know and I don't care what he is doing as long as it works and makes for a wise purchase for beadmakers who make the decision to purchase his machines.

Just as an aside, you can also look at your paragraph regarding the cost of 2 M-15s and say that for an extra $300 the purchaser will get a new machine as opposed to a reconditioned one, one source to expend electricity instead of two. You can also look at it and say, well, if I want to use half the power one day, then it will cost me much less to run 1 M-15. The same engineers I spoke with before also looked at the machine I bought and suggested that at the rate I use it with proper maintenance it should last for 40 years. I don't think most of the reconditioned machines will last that long and that's the reason I made the purchase I did. Now, I am not saying any of this is right or wrong, but just that we all need to remember to look at both sides of an issue. What is right for one person may not be right for the other. At the time I purchased mine I had the funds to put into something that I believe will last me the rest of my life. The extra expense at the time didn't bother me as I was working fulltime and had the money to spend. Someone else may be in a different position and not have the funds right now to spend and they can really not care that the machine may have a shorter life-span. We all see things differently because of where we are in life at the time.

I firmly hope that the newer UO machines continue to live up to the confidence you have had in them. I sincerely hope that this more affordable alternative is as good as I have heard recently and that it will last for a period of time that makes the investment worth it. It seems at this point in time that it is doing just that.

[kbinkster]

You know, I have been staying out of this thread because it requested that no vendors participate, but this post that I am about to address has now dragged me into it. I am going to respond - I can't not respond to this. I hope everyone understands.

it really looks like good ol boy was fishing for mr smiley. he put the bait out there and waited to see if he would respond.
I don't know whether Good 'ol Boy was baiting anyone, or not. He could have just as easily been baiting me as any other concentrator vendor.

But, boy, your post sure seems like it is baiting me. I'm going to address it, anyway.

i did buy my m15 from mr smiley and he was great. my concentrator did have a problem with the area where you attached your hose and it was taken care of. i am not a vendor. i like my m15.

I think it's great that you like your M-15, bgurden. No one, myself included, has ever told anyone that they should not like their M-15s if they are doing what they should be doing.

All I have ever insisted is that people educate themselves to what is out there and what they can reasonably expect.

I first reported my experience(s) with UO before I was ever a vendor. My opinion did not change once I became a vendor (and it would not change if I were to no longer be a vendor, either). If anything, over the passage of time, I have seen more complaints, several of which were very similar to mine. When I have related this (my experience and the others), I have also included the statement that I am aware that other people have had different experiences from me. I thought that I had made that clear.

i have looked at the regalia but do not want to spend almost twice as much to get a product that is pretty similar to the m15.

The M-15 is NOT similar to the Regalia. They are completely different machines and the difference is more than one is new and one is not.

i know the regalia is new and it is digital but why buy a caddy when the chevy works just fine.

If you were indeed comparing a Cadillac to a Chevrolet, then well, that's your opinion and everyone has one. But, like I said, the differences are more than that.

Even still, if you like your M-15, and it does what you want, more power to you. Enjoy it in good health.

i suspect the markup on the regalia is at least double the wholesale cost.

I sure wish that that were the case - I'd be rich! Just curious, what do you think the mark-up is on the UO units? Before you answer, I should let you know that I have a distributor price list.

its marketed to those who want the 'best" product and all posts by the vendor who sells it is aimed at discrediting the m15. i think the reason why=major competition.

First of all, my posts are not all aimed at discrediting the M-15. I have hundreds of posts regarding concentrators - thousands on this and other forums in regards to torch set-ups and torches. My posts that discuss the M-15 are aimed at dispelling rumors and myths and getting down to the truth of what they really are and what they really do. If after knowing what they really are and what they really do, someone makes the decision to purchase one, then at least they are making an educated choice. I'm not against people buying M-15s, I just want them to make an informed decision.

Secondly, I am not motvated by competition to dispell these rumors and myths. Misinformation affects me, but not for reasons of competition. I don't want someone to purchase a machine that should be doing one thing to be (1) disillusioned about all concentrators, or (2) think that their torch is faulty when the set-up does not perform as promised. That is not the case with all M-15s, but it has been the case with enough of them to cause me concern.

As for what I have reported from my analyzer project, it is scientific data. It is not my personal opinion, but rather measurements that have been gathered by myself and other people. Why would I post false data if someone else could use the same tools to disprove it?

[kbinkster]

Is it really that obvious?

Ya' wanna know what is really obvious? What is really obvious is that you are trying to discredit me every chance you get. Do you have a personal issue with me?

Maybe it all started when I called you out about false claims regarding your ability to sell GTT torches. I remember pointing out the picture of the GTT Python on your website and your claim that you could sell any of the GTT torches when in fact no distributor at that time could sell the Python and you were not even a distributor. Thanks for remving the picture and the claims. Oh, hey, do you still have the GTT logo on your business card? You might want to change that, too.

Or, maybe you started to have a problem with me when a guy on the GLDG talked about how long it took to get a GTT torch from you and when it got to him, it did not have the instructional DVD in it. I let him know that you were not a GTT distributor, so that is why it took so long to get his torch (oh, and that GTT does not require advanced payment, so it was not our fault if he had any money tied up - hey, kind of like AIM kilns, huh?). I don't know what happened to his DVD. Do you have any thoughts on that, Dennis? Whatever happened to the DVD that came with the torch you sold to that guy?

I digress.

What might not be so obvious on this particular forum is that you, sir, are the one with a bad reputation in the glass world. You are the one who has been chased off of more forums for your dealings and behavior than I have ever logged on to.

I think people ought to know about your true reputation when they read you trying to tear apart mine.

'just thought I'd back up my assertion that Dennis has a bad reputation by linking to a thread here on LE:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102819

[Mr. Smiley]

Hi Brent, thanks for your reply. I am passionate about what I believe it, as you are. Most of the time my passions are, perhaps, more "generic" than yours. I want all of our beadmakers to be able to make a purchase that is right for them; kiln, torch, concentrator or whatever. Although I do support those purchases I have made, as you do, I do try to remember that what others want out of a piece of equipment, whatever it is, may be different than what I want.

Just for your information, the engineers I spoke to had no first-hand experience with the machine at all, but just the overall idea of taking a machine that produces one outcome and forcing it to produce something higher. As you just said, Jack obviously had problems with his machines early on as forecasted by those engineers. However, either he has changed what he is doing or he has found a way to, perhaps, make whatever he was doing work. I don't know and I don't care what he is doing as long as it works and makes for a wise purchase for beadmakers who make the decision to purchase his machines.

Just as an aside, you can also look at your paragraph regarding the cost of 2 M-15s and say that for an extra $300 the purchaser will get a new machine as opposed to a reconditioned one, one source to expend electricity instead of two. You can also look at it and say, well, if I want to use half the power one day, then it will cost me much less to run 1 M-15. The same engineers I spoke with before also looked at the machine I bought and suggested that at the rate I use it with proper maintenance it should last for 40 years. I don't think most of the reconditioned machines will last that long and that's the reason I made the purchase I did. Now, I am not saying any of this is right or wrong, but just that we all need to remember to look at both sides of an issue. What is right for one person may not be right for the other. At the time I purchased mine I had the funds to put into something that I believe will last me the rest of my life. The extra expense at the time didn't bother me as I was working fulltime and had the money to spend. Someone else may be in a different position and not have the funds right now to spend and they can really not care that the machine may have a shorter life-span. We all see things differently because of where we are in life at the time.

I firmly hope that the newer UO machines continue to live up to the confidence you have had in them. I sincerely hope that this more affordable alternative is as good as I have heard recently and that it will last for a period of time that makes the investment worth it. It seems at this point in time that it is doing just that.

Great points Pam and I agree with you... :D

I've never said one bad thing about the Regalia... haven't said it's over priced... I've just done a price comparison to other available options... if somebody needs 10 LPM at low PSI and they want to spend $1500, it's a good choice. I've heard nothing but good things about them. It's not a choice I would make. It doesn't fill my needs and even if those specs were my needs, I'd probably go with a pair of regular medical units... the power consumption is really not much at all. :love:

[kbinkster]

and since Kimberly's data has been called into the discussion, let's look at that for a moment. No, I'm not going to tear it apart. I'm going to assume it's right for the purpose of a little comparison. She has said the M-15 puts out good purity at 6 LPM... Ok, so two M-15s would be around $1200 (give or take) delivered to the US and according to her numbers, they will give you 12 LPM at @15 PSI. That is still more flow and pressure than a Regalia and you've got about $300 left over to spend on glass... or maybe a tank of gas... so even with those lower flow rates, UO is still a better deal. I know mine perform better than 6 LPM, but hey, worst case scenario... UO still makes sense.

And by the same token, many torches do not need 12 LPM at a high pressure, 9-10 LPM at a low to medium pressure is more than enough, and if you're going with using two machines, two 5 LPM reconditioned, unaltered machines will give great performance for $800 give or take and you would have about $400 to spend on glass.

[Dennis Brady]

Ya' wanna know what is really obvious? What is really obvious is that you are trying to discredit me every chance you get. Do you have a personal issue with me?

Maybe it all started when I called you out about false claims regarding your ability to sell GTT torches. I remember pointing out the picture of the GTT Python on your website and your claim that you could sell any of the GTT torches when in fact no distributor at that time could sell the Python and you were not even a distributor. Thanks for remving the picture and the claims. Oh, hey, do you still have the GTT logo on your business card? You might want to change that, too.

Or, maybe you started to have a problem with me when a guy on the GLDG talked about how long it took to get a GTT torch from you and when it got to him, it did not have the instructional DVD in it. I let him know that you were not a GTT distributor, so that is why it took so long to get his torch (oh, and that GTT does not require advanced payment, so it was not our fault if he had any money tied up - hey, kind of like AIM kilns, huh?). I don't know what happened to his DVD. Do you have any thoughts on that, Dennis? Whatever happened to the DVD that came with the torch you sold to that guy?

I digress.

What might not be so obvious on this particular forum is that you, sir, are the one with a bad reputation in the glass world. You are the one who has been chased off of more forums for your dealings and behavior than I have ever logged on to.

I think people ought to know about your true reputation when they read you trying to tear apart mine.

I'm curious. Where do you see the connection between me selling GTT torches and you trash talking UO oxycons?

I'm equally curious about you thinking I can't sell GTT torches. GTT can decide who they designate as a distributor but can't control who buys and resells their torches. Are you suggesting there's anything you or GTT can do to prevent me from doing that? Are you willing to publicly state that you would or have instructed your GTT distributors to not sell to me?

If, as you claim, my claims to be able to supply GTT torches were false, how was it I was able to supply them? Magic? You start by calling me a liar for saying I could supply the torches, then complain that I supplied one didn't include a CD. Which is it?

Where did you get the idea I advertised GTT torches on my business card? You obviously have never seen one of my business cards. Why would you fabricate that suggestion?

.......

ETA

Although the distributor I was previously getting GTT torches from has gone out of business, I am still selling GTT torches.

[kbinkster]

I'm curious. Where do you see the connection between me selling GTT torches and you trash talking UO oxycons?

First off, I do not trash talk UO machines. You might not like the data that I have presented or the first hand accound of my experience with them, but I have not embellished or exaggerated anything and I have not "talked trash."

Second, I am only suggesting that the reason you seem to try and discredit me at every chance you get may be because I called you out about some torch stuff.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong and the reason you are trying to discredit me is because you have an inventory of something that competes with what I have and you don't want anyone to listen to what I have to say because that might slow your sales down.

I'm equally curious about you thinking I can't sell GTT torches. GTT can decide who they designate as a distributor but can't control who buys and resells their torches. Are you suggesting there's anything you or GTT can do to prevent me from doing that? Are you willing to publicly state that you would or have instructed your GTT distributors to not sell to me?

I'm suggesting no such thing. I am very aware that people buy torches and other items through distributors and then resell them - they are called "dealers."

What I mostly took issue with was the picture you took off of the GTT website and put onto yours (doesn't that violate copyright?) when you were not an authorized dealer and had no permission whatsoever to use any GTT materials. Are you claiming that you did not use a picture owned by GTT without their permission?

If, as you claim, my claims to be able to supply GTT torches were false, how was it I was able to supply them? Magic?

I never claimed that you could not supply them. Where do you get that?

You start by calling me a liar for saying I could supply the torches, then complain that I supplied one didn't include a CD. Which is it?

Again, I did not claim that you could not supply the torches. I claimed that you represented yourself as someone who could supply new Pythons and well, those were only available directly from GTT and only to artists. They were not sold to distributors and had you purchased one from an artist, it would not have been a new torch. You did not indicate that you were dealing in used torches.

Oh, and you never mentioned what happened to the disc. Did you just keep it for yourself thinking that it would not have been missed, or was it not there from your order and were you so unfamiliar with the product line that you did not even know that there was a disc that should have been with the torch? At any rate, did you replace the missing disc, or did you leave that for someone else to do?

Where did you get the idea I advertised GTT torches on my business card? You obviously have never seen one of my business cards. Why would you fabricate that suggestion?[?QUOTE]

Just curious, though, why would you think that I have never seen one of your business cards? ALthough you yourself have never handed one to me, that does not mean that someone else didn't.

At any rate, it's not a fabrication. Someone I trust and find to be a very reliable source told me that you had the GTT logo on your business card at one point.



[QUOTE].......

ETA

Although the distributor I was previously getting GTT torches from has gone out of business, I am still selling GTT torches.

I'm sorry to hear that your previous supplier has gone out of business. Good for you for hanging in there and selling the GTTs, though. Just don't blame GTT for long wait times whenever it is really a matter of just having a hard time getting ahold of one yourself, that's all.

Keep on "selling the sizzle," Dennis.

[Dennis Brady]

I never claimed that you could not supply them. Where do you get that?
I called you out about false claims regarding your ability to sell GTT torches

I interpret that as you stating I was lying when I said I could sell GTT torches. My claims to be able to sell GTT torches were never false. If they were false, how was I able to supply the one you're complaining I didn't include a disc with? It appears you are still calling me a liar because I AM claiming an ability to sell them. You have always known that I could sell GTT torches so why would you claim I was lying when I said I could sell them? Do you think I'm still lying in my claim that I can sell GTT torches?


Again, I did not claim that you could not supply the torches. I claimed that you represented yourself as someone who could supply new Pythons and well, those were only available directly from GTT and only to artists. They were not sold to distributors and had you purchased one from an artist, it would not have been a new torch. You did not indicate that you were dealing in used torches.


All the torches I sold were purchased as new from one of your distributors. Is it your claim that your distributor lied to me and falsely supplied a used torch instead of a new one? If so, he did an amazing job of repacking.

Oh, and you never mentioned what happened to the disc.
Glad you asked. I got the torch in question from your distributor who got it from GTT. The distributor supplied no disc and when asked about it advised there was no disc with the torch. You're fond of calling people liars. Was your distributor lying?

At any rate, it's not a fabrication. Someone I trust and find to be a very reliable source told me that you had the GTT logo on your business card at one point.
Okay now it's my turn. That is a lie. Your "reliable source" is a liar. No reference of any kind to GTT has ever appeared on any of my business cards. Claims that they did are a flat out falsehood. A lie. Are you fond of spreading unsubstantiated lies on a public forum?

Keep on "selling the sizzle,"
I'll do that - and you can keep on spreading fabrications.

[kbinkster]

All the torches I sold were purchased as new from one of your distributors. Is it your claim that your distributor lied to me and falsely supplied a used torch instead of a new one? If so, he did an amazing job of repacking.

You had a picture of a GTT Python on your website with the catchy phrase "big or small we sell them all" or something to that effect, implying that you sold new Pythons. The Python is the torch I am talking about.

Look, I could go round and round with you, especially since you tend to argue in circles and I am rather tenacious, but it is only further derailing this thread. If you would like to continue this arguement in private, be my guest.

[Mr. Smiley]

And by the same token, many torches do not need 12 LPM at a high pressure, 9-10 LPM at a low to medium pressure is more than enough, and if you're going with using two machines, two 5 LPM reconditioned, unaltered machines will give great performance for $800 give or take and you would have about $400 to spend on glass.

Many mid sized torches do not run well on low pressure, especially for boro... the smaller bead torches will do OK on 8 PSI or so... but TWO m15s will do more than that... and if you only need 10 LPM at low pressure for a smaller bead torch, my point has always been to pair two medical units up and for about $600 you can run the smaller torches nicely. Thanks for backing up my suggestion to customers. This saves them nearly $900 over a Regalia. That's a lot of glass!

[Dennis Brady]

You had a picture of a GTT Python on your website with the catchy phrase "big or small we sell them all" or something to that effect, implying that you sold new Pythons. The Python is the torch I am talking about.

Look, I could go round and round with you, especially since you tend to argue in circles and I am rather tenacious, but it is only further derailing this thread. If you would like to continue this arguement in private, be my guest.

If you want to keep your accusations private, we'll do so - but if you persist in publicly calling me a liar, and publicly posting lies, it's reasonable for me to assume you prefer to discuss it publicly.

Who is your BSing "reliable source"?

[bbnana]

This might have been an informative thread for others, yet again...senseless denouncing and vituperation has taken over.

I wonder if consumers will ever get to see feedback from a strictly consumers standpoint.

I have been following the countless threads on the Oxygen Concentrators. I have been in the market for one to purchase for the last year. I am taking my time trying to decide on what I should purchase and from which vendor, I am interested in user reviews, as to help me make an informed decision. Reading threads like this has made me shy away from making a purchase from any one vendor for any particular concentrator.

When I buy any new piece of equipment or tool that is of any significant value I like to read non-biased reviews. For example - on buying a new SLR camera I read many reviews from various sources. I valued the user reviews. I never once saw the vendors offer their point of view or offer advice while reading "user review" sections. Another example - When we bought tools to renovate our house, we read reviews and made our decision based on the information of other peoples experience with those specific tools. I am sure the examples could go on.....

Do you read reviews from the manufacturers and vendors of cars when you are looking to buy one? or do you like to hear and read what other people have to say about the car without biased input???

As there is no place yet other than Forums to gain information from users of specific Oxygen concentrators and how they would review them, this is probably a good venue to start in.

Maybe someone (non-vendor specific) could make a webpage, list the oxygen concentrators out there that are in use by the lampworking community and have it enabled so that users can write reviews and rate the oxygen concentrators.

Understanding how others are using the oxygen concentrators, what torch they are using, how long they have been using the concentrator for and the reliability issue - is valuable information for everyone.

I agree with you all the way. I just want end user reviews of the products and no vendor input. I am tired of wading through the bickering and the "he said/she said" posts. So I decided that I will try to do just that.

I will design a webpage with a form for oxycon users to fill in info on thier setup; unit brand and model, age of unit, hrs, new/used, etc. When the form is submitted it will automatically update a database. I will then display the database results on another webpage for everyone to see. Perhaps the end-user information will afford people like you and me the opportunity to finally view end-user reviews of most, if not all, oxycons and make an informed choice about which one is right for them.

At any rate, I will give it a shot. Some input (from users, not vendors) about what goes on the form would be appreciated . Perhaps I should start a thread for this.

[G.L.McBead]

I for 1 don't need a oxy. gen. to last 40 years so if I can get one that will last 10-20 years for less $'s I will.
G.

[Jackson River Glass]

oh mercy. Such a delicate subject... 8-[

I'm just going to pretend that THIS is that place for glass peeps to go and rate their set-up. I know I really wanted info to compare when I was doing my oxy con shopping, so for what it's worth I'll share:

I have a cheetah, two m-15's and propane. I torch in my garage (az heat and right now humidity too) and couldn't be happier (well, unless I had a/c!!!). I do mostly beads and have more than enough oomph to do the boro that I so dearly love. And the colors are great :) The units are very quiet too.

Since this thread was really about the oxy cons specifically - I ordered mine from mr. smiley and they arrived when they were supposed to, in perfect condition. No problems whatsoever. Excellent customer service.

I will also note that in my research phase, I contacted Kimberly to inquire about the Regalia. She was very helpful and kind. I've heard wonderful things about her, as well as the Regalia.

Okay, I'm done... :waving:

[bgurden]

i definitely looked at the regalia. it came down to the regalia and the m-15. i could not justify the extra cost for myself. lampworking is not my fulltime job. i do work in the medical profession and am not naive in regards to the concentrators. i spoke to friends who are respiratory therapists before i bought a refurbished machine. they explained to me that these machines were built to last and be durable. cant have a concentrator fail with a pt that needs 02 right? my post was not intended to slam the regalia nor its distributor at all and i apologize if you were offended.

[pam]

I agree with you all the way. I just want end user reviews of the products and no vendor input. I am tired of wading through the bickering and the "he said/she said" posts. So I decided that I will try to do just that.

I will design a webpage with a form for oxycon users to fill in info on thier setup; unit brand and model, age of unit, hrs, new/used, etc. When the form is submitted it will automatically update a database. I will then display the database results on another webpage for everyone to see. Perhaps the end-user information will afford people like you and me the opportunity to finally view end-user reviews of most, if not all, oxycons and make an informed choice about which one is right for them.

At any rate, I will give it a shot. Some input (from users, not vendors) about what goes on the form would be appreciated . Perhaps I should start a thread for this.


This is a great idea. I know of someone who was going to do something similar, but couldn't at that time figure out how to keep people from posting false reports, or one person coming back and posting again and again and again for or against a certain product. Of course this was a few years ago, so it may be that technology has changed. I definitely think it is a worthwhile endeavor. Feedback from end-users is very important, as well as actual scientific data. With both, flameworkers would be able to make a more informed decision when it comes to buying a concentrator that fits them.

[bbnana]

This is a great idea. I know of someone who was going to do something similar, but couldn't at that time figure out how to keep people from posting false reports, or one person coming back and posting again and again and again for or against a certain product. Of course this was a few years ago, so it may be that technology has changed. I definitely think it is a worthwhile endeavor. Feedback from end-users is very important, as well as actual scientific data. With both, flameworkers would be able to make a more informed decision when it comes to buying a concentrator that fits them.

Hi Pam
I think the only way to protect the integrity of the data is to require users to enter their LE user name. Duplicate User Names will be deleted before database is updated. Since I am creating this for LE users I don't think that should be a problem, at least I hope not. I almost have the data fields completed. So far the following data collection fields are what I've come up with for the form:

LE User Name
Brand
Model
How long owned unit?
Bought New/Used?
Cost of unit
If used, hrs on unit at time of purchase?
Avg number of hrs used weekly?
Settings used most
How much noise does unit produce?
Manufacturer Warranty
Performance issues w unit
Warranty repairs
Is lampwork full time occupation?
Soft Glass/Boro/Both
Average size bead/sculpture made w unit
Torch/torches used
Type of flame used most
Overall Satisfaction w unit
Do you recommend this brand/model?

The above has been edited to include more info to gather.

Suggestions are more than welcome, in fact invited, as far as what to add to/remove from the form.

[Dennis Brady]

Hi Pam
I think the only way to protect the integrity of the data is to require users to enter their LE user name. Duplicate User Names will be deleted before database is updated. Since I am creating this for LE users I don't think that should be a problem, at least I hope not. I almost have the data fields completed. So far the following data collection fields are what I've come up with for the form:

LE User Name
Brand
Model
How long owned unit?
Bought New/Used?
If used, hrs on unit at time of purchase?
Avg number of hrs used weekly?
Settings used
Manufacturer Warranty
Performance issues w unit
Warranty repairs
Is lampwork full time occupation?
Soft Glass/Boro/Both
Torch/torches used
Type of flame used most
Overall Satisfaction w unit
Do you recommend this brand/model?

I'm sure I'm missing something. Suggestions are more than welcome, in fact invited, as far as what to add to/remove from the form.

It would take only a minute to create a new user name. What's to prevent someone from creating multiple user names and post multiple commendations? I'm no computer geek (leave that stuff to my son Jason) but even I know how to create anonymous ISP addys that can't be traced. There are even internet forums to teach you how to do it. The ease with which that can be done is precisely why some boards require you to submit a fair amount of personal information that is carefully checked by the board admin before a new registry is accepted.

I think what you propose is a great idea, but there's no way for you (or the board admin here) to tell if 10 favourable commendations came from 10 different oxycon owners, or just one trying to promote their equipment.

[Jackson River Glass]

Tee -

FWIW I thought I'd mention another possible question to add to your survey. Some people seem interested in how much noise a concentrator produces while running.

[kbinkster]

i definitely looked at the regalia. it came down to the regalia and the m-15. i could not justify the extra cost for myself. lampworking is not my fulltime job. i do work in the medical profession and am not naive in regards to the concentrators. i spoke to friends who are respiratory therapists before i bought a refurbished machine. they explained to me that these machines were built to last and be durable. cant have a concentrator fail with a pt that needs 02 right? my post was not intended to slam the regalia nor its distributor at all and i apologize if you were offended.

Apology accepted. And please accept my apologies if I have offended you.

It has not been my intent to "slam" the competition, either. My intent all along has been to raise awareness and educate people about lampwork set-ups. What you just posted here is actually part of why there is a need for it. It appears that you are under the impression that either the M-15 is simply a reconditioned medical unit or that something, even when grossly modified, always retains the original integrity built into it by the original manufacturer. The part I'm getting this from is, "they explained to me that these machines were built to last and be durable. cant have a concentrator fail with a pt that needs 02 right?"

Concentrators do have to be durable, and, as in most things in life, some brands tend to outlast others. Machines can be reconitioned to perform like new, but even so, they are not new and not all machines are reconditioned to the point where they are again acceptable for medical use. Once something has been modified, however, it no longer has the same integrity (for lack of a better word) that the original manufacturer built into it.

I am going to try to say the following as best I can - just keeping to facts of the matter, not opinion. The M-15 is not simply a reconditioned medical unit. It once was a medical unit, and I think that the base unit it is built on is relevant, but regardless, it has been modified to do things that the original manufacturer never intended for it to do.

As with all things, there are benfits and limitations and this is no exception. I feel that as long as people understand what they are really getting and what they can realistically expect, that their decision is based at least in part on solid information and facts rather than just emotion, then I feel that they have made an educated decision. And that is good! Even if that decision does not benefit me financially, it still benefits me because it is benefitting my community - people are thinking and are educating themselves.

There is a difference in quality and integrity between machines - between the Regalia and the M-15, between the M-15 and the unmodified reconditioned units, between the Regalia and the unmodified reconditioned units, and even among the various unmodified reconditioned units, themselves and between the various other new machines out there. There are differences and I believe that it benefits the concentrator-interested members of the lampworking community to be aware and to be educated on the various aspects of their choices. There are also going to be differences in how the various machines perform under various conditions and usage. Further, what is satisfactory to one user may not be satisfactory to another. Of course the personal satisfaction testimonial is part of the picture, but it should not be the sole factor when rendering a decision. Scientific data, data that can be measured/verified by anyone with the right tools, is an objective way to measure performance. Data is data, regardless of who collects it. This is why I started my analyzer project and why I am not measuring all the machines, myself.

There will always be people who will buy equipment based on quality and work around the cost. There will always be people who will buy equipment based on cost and work around the quality. That's just a fact of life and I try to help people with their decisions based on their needs and philosophy every day. I don't promote one philosophy over the other. ETA: Just to clarify, I do have a preference in philosposhies, but when someone tells me their needs and their situation, I work with them and don't push one philosophy over the other.

I really do hope that you are happy with your purchase (it sounds like you are) and go on to make some really great glass and have fun for a very long time without any problems whatsoever with your equipment.

[pam]

Theresa, perhaps adding a section with average size of beads (glass objects) created while using the concentrator might give some more information. And do you want to add a "cost of unit" question?

[bbnana]

Tee -

FWIW I thought I'd mention another possible question to add to your survey. Some people seem interested in how much noise a concentrator produces while running.
I'll add a question about noise. Thank you.

It would take only a minute to create a new user name. What's to prevent someone from creating multiple user names and post multiple commendations? I'm no computer geek (leave that stuff to my son Jason) but even I know how to create anonymous ISP addys that can't be traced. There are even internet forums to teach you how to do it. The ease with which that can be done is precisely why some boards require you to submit a fair amount of personal information that is carefully checked by the board admin before a new registry is accepted.

I think what you propose is a great idea, but there's no way for you (or the board admin here) to tell if 10 favourable commendations came from 10 different oxycon owners, or just one trying to promote their equipment.

Hi Dennis, I have thought about how easy it is to create a new user. There really isn't a foolproof way to keep out people who want to try and discredit the data. At least with requiring the LE user names anyone looking at the database can easily see the number of posts an LE member has and decide if they want to give that particular review any weight.

Theresa, perhaps adding a section with average size of beads (glass objects) created while using the concentrator might give some more information. And do you want to add a "cost of unit" question?

Hi Pam, thank you for your input. I'll add these two questions to the database.

[Dennis Brady]

I think the way it works now, albeit frequently acrimonious, works reasonably well. Those that are willing to offer an opinion will do so and those reading those opinions can consider the source and decide what credibity to grant. I don't think a registry of commendations would work any better and could easily be viewed with enough skepticism as to be commonly considered valueless.

I think that is the best we'll have until someone that is generally perceived as professionally neutral (with no dog in the fight) will do comparison studies.

[kbinkster]

Theresa, if you would like the LE participants of my project to also contribute to your's, I'll be happy to point them your way.

[newlondonbrat]

I think the way it works now, albeit frequently acrimonious, works reasonably well. Those that are willing to offer an opinion will do so and those reading those opinions can consider the source and decide what credibity to grant. I don't think a registry of commendations would work any better and could easily be viewed with enough skepticism as to be commonly considered valueless.

I think that is the best we'll have until someone that is generally perceived as professionally neutral (with no dog in the fight) will do comparison studies.

Well as a nurse with a research back ground I would LOVE to test the concentrator.
I could set up a controlled study in my workshop and do have access to equipment to measure the actual oxygen output of the devices.
There are several local lamp workers that I am sure would help with the data collection for the research project.
Now I need all the distributors to each send me a torch and a concentrator.

Then I can get to work on my Research project!:p

[bbnana]

I have created the webpage and the database to collect and display oxycon user reviews.
View the thread here (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2041891#post2041891).

[Sherena]

I have created the webpage and the database to collect and display oxycon user reviews.
View the thread here (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2041891#post2041891).


I have been away for a while....all I can say is Great WORK and effort. =D>=D> (If I could have mustered the time and energy - this is something I would have like to do) I am only sooo HAPPY that you have taken this on, and applaud your efforts for taking this idea and DOING something with it :grin:

The site looks great. If I could make a suggestion, it would be to enable not only LE'ers but the multitude of Glass workers who use concentrators to use it as well. The link could be posted on the other popular glass forums out there. Thus enabling a broader spectrum of reviews, where there may not be biased alliances to one specific brand of concentrator.

As for making/posting multiple reviews under various names, I am sure this will happen, since it has already been mentioned in this thread....I guess that's were we have to sift through the information being supplied and make our own decisions. I only wonder if people and vendors are really that hard up to spend time making new users, hiding IP's, etc, etc, to falsify a database for the sole purpose of trafficking sales to there specific brand of concentrator. I would like to believe that people/vendors have better things to do....in the end this is an idea made to share information with one another about a "tool of the trade", not about an idea to sell any one specific "brand" of tool.

[KristiB]

In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane :cry: it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired :cry: I'm so disgusted.

[bgurden]

In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane :cry: it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired :cry: I'm so disgusted.

i just saw this thread on a new posting by a satisfied customer for UO. the next thread indicated that you were this dissatisfied customer. i am confused as it appears that you found this thread?

[bbnana]

I have been away for a while....all I can say is Great WORK and effort. =D>=D> (If I could have mustered the time and energy - this is something I would have like to do) I am only sooo HAPPY that you have taken this on, and applaud your efforts for taking this idea and DOING something with it :grin:

The site looks great. If I could make a suggestion, it would be to enable not only LE'ers but the multitude of Glass workers who use concentrators to use it as well. The link could be posted on the other popular glass forums out there. Thus enabling a broader spectrum of reviews, where there may not be biased alliances to one specific brand of concentrator.

As for making/posting multiple reviews under various names, I am sure this will happen, since it has already been mentioned in this thread....I guess that's were we have to sift through the information being supplied and make our own decisions. I only wonder if people and vendors are really that hard up to spend time making new users, hiding IP's, etc, etc, to falsify a database for the sole purpose of trafficking sales to there specific brand of concentrator. I would like to believe that people/vendors have better things to do....in the end this is an idea made to share information with one another about a "tool of the trade", not about an idea to sell any one specific "brand" of tool.

Thanks Sherena. I do think that there are some out there who may view the database as an avenue for free advertising. I think that by having the users enter their LE User Names will help viewers sort through the reviews by allowing them to see who and what is real and what is not.

Regarding non-LE member reviews; I think I will add another column for non-LE members to add their reviews too. The more reviews the better.

[oxydoc]

In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane :cry: it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired :cry: I'm so disgusted.

Hi Kristi, I am curious. Why have'nt you sent the tornado back for repair? I would be happy to test, repair and return. I will also pay for shipping both ways. jack

[oxydoc]

In looking for info on Unlimited Oxygen I came across this thread.

I have a tornado and it's 1.5 years old. It never worked right coming out of the box. I let Jack talk me into the fact that it was okay and it's slowly been getting worse and worse. Now it won't even run ONE torch and the flame fluctuates from normal to complete propane :cry: it's impossible to use. All the filters, etc. have been checked.

Promises to ship me out an M15 to use while my tornado is being repaired have not been kept. I was asked by them to give them a chance to prove their customer service. I did.. they failed. Today I called and was told they would have to look that up in the computer (to find shipping info).. I said I would be happy to wait while they did that. Nope.. try and call back tomorrow.

So here I sit with a $1200 machine that is a piece of junk and no idea when and if it will ever be repaired :cry: I'm so disgusted.

Hey Kristi. I talked to Jul yesterday. She told me that she had promised you a loaner M15. This is new to me but a cool idea. I will send out an M15 tomorrow. But this one wont be a loaner, you can keep it. The Tornado should fit in the same box. I will send a call tag in the box with the M15 for the Tornado. I will repair it and update it and send it back. I am sorry for your trouble. jack:oops:

[KristiB]

Hi Jack,

I've been away at Glass Stock and then to a friends to torch so I missed your reply. Thank you for checking into it! I was going to call today and ask about it again. I really just wanted to get the tornado working correctly and I am trying to get product ready for an upcoming show, thus the replacement M15 request.

Yours is the first experience I've had with a concentrator. I've never owned one before and had no idea how they were supposed to perform. But from other lampworkers that have visited my studio (aka garage) they told me it wasn't working correctly and then shortly after it bit the dust. I have a mini cc and a minor and since day one, the tornado will barely run both torches. As I understand it, that shouldn't be the case, correct??

Thank you again for taking care of this problem! I usually don't post like this but I was getting really frustrated!!


Thank you again
Kristi

[beachbeads]

Well as a nurse with a research back ground I would LOVE to test the concentrator.
I could set up a controlled study in my workshop and do have access to equipment to measure the actual oxygen output of the devices.
There are several local lamp workers that I am sure would help with the data collection for the research project.
Now I need all the distributors to each send me a torch and a concentrator.

Then I can get to work on my Research project!:p

I'll do it, I'm neutral and have lots of time.

[BlackRiverBeads]

We sent our hurricane back for repairs in June, no sign of it yet. Just sent you a pm Jack. Would love to hear from you!

[oxydoc]

We sent our hurricane back for repairs in June, no sign of it yet. Just sent you a pm Jack. Would love to hear from you!

Hey James, I emailed you. I will send M15s as you requested. I am so sorry that this had been dragged out like this. jack

[Elizabeth Beads]

I had my Respironics M15 from May 2008 until about 2 weeks ago (4 months or so), but it was performing more and more poorly until I was fighting to even melt cane. I took it to a medical supply outlet and they tested it and said there was zero oxygen flow.

I bought it from ABR who referred me to UO who said to ship it back. I sent it the same day, UPS, Monday 9/29, 2 weeks ago today, paid $47 to have UPS box and ship it. Got a call Thursday, 10/2, that it had arrived and was beyond repair and a replacement would be sent "early next week." Waited every day last week for UPS, hoping to have it by this past weeekend. Nothing. Called on Friday, 10/10, and left 2 messages asking for a tracking number and estimated time of arrival (no return call).

Called this morning and got someone who didn't know the status but said my busted machine was still sitting right there. So now I am wondering if my replacement was shipped out. I'm supposed to get a call back tomorrow, but it's now been 2 weekends that I've had no oxygen and I'm not happy about that.

Maybe my oxycon will arrive today or maybe if it hasn't been sent yet, it will be sent priority tomorrow so I will have it by the coming weekend.

Jack, if you are reading, please send me a pm and give me a status update.

Thanks,

Liz Bunn

[oxydoc]

I had my Respironics M15 from May 2008 until about 2 weeks ago (4 months or so), but it was performing more and more poorly until I was fighting to even melt cane. I took it to a medical supply outlet and they tested it and said there was zero oxygen flow.

I bought it from ABR who referred me to UO who said to ship it back. I sent it the same day, UPS, Monday 9/29, 2 weeks ago today, paid $47 to have UPS box and ship it. Got a call Thursday, 10/2, that it had arrived and was beyond repair and a replacement would be sent "early next week." Waited every day last week for UPS, hoping to have it by this past weeekend. Nothing. Called on Friday, 10/10, and left 2 messages asking for a tracking number and estimated time of arrival (no return call).

Called this morning and got someone who didn't know the status but said my busted machine was still sitting right there. So now I am wondering if my replacement was shipped out. I'm supposed to get a call back tomorrow, but it's now been 2 weekends that I've had no oxygen and I'm not happy about that.

Maybe my oxycon will arrive today or maybe if it hasn't been sent yet, it will be sent priority tomorrow so I will have it by the coming weekend.

Jack, if you are reading, please send me a pm and give me a status update.

Thanks,

Liz Bunn

Hey Liz, it was me who spoke with you today. Like I explained to you, Jul had the day off today, so I dont know if anything was shipped. I did tell you that the unit was damaged beyond any repair. Im sure that a complete new unit will be required to replace your's with. We cannot even save the sieve bed which is what we need to build another unit. I will make sure an M15 will be sent to you at the soonest possible. I will not be able to sent it priority or overnight. That would cost about 300.00. I think maybe myself and my crew should be a little more realistic when giving a projected completion date. We are almost always running at least two weeks behind on everything. I am sorry for your wait. I will also refund your shipping to me. jack

[Elizabeth Beads]

Jack - I appreciate your response and offer to refund my shipping, and, as we talked about today on the phone, you will send my replacement out this week. UPS had mine to you in 3 days so I'm sure the replacement will get here just as quickly.

Although my oxycon was not functioning when I sent it back, it was not damaged beyond repair, at least externally. I paid for UPS to pack it as well as ship it and I gave them the value of $600 (the amount I paid ABR). As I offered, if you will send me photos of the machine in the condition it arrived back to you, I will take them to the UPS Store that packed and shipped it, along with my receipt, and file a claim. I understand the sender has the right to file a claim. I will do my best to make sure you are compensated for any damage done by UPS.

Again, thanks for your promise today to get a replacement sent out this week. I have a lot of orders to fill right now, and being without oxygen leaves me in a bit of a jam. I know you are trying your best to provide good service and I know you understand my frustration at being told 2 weeks ago, that it would go out early last week, and then not being able to get a status update until today. I really appreciate that you are getting this straightened out now.

Thanks!

Liz

[Elizabeth Beads]

Hey Jack -- If you are reading, I've been trying to reach you by phone and e-mail. I know my replacement concentrator did not go out last week as promised because as of Friday I was told that you wanted to test it for 24 hours, so it was promised to go out today. I am looking for confirmation that it is on its way and a tracking number please.

I am in a jam without oxygen, with orders to fill and the holidays coming. I work outside the lampwork studio full time, so weekends are my prime time to make beads. I've been without oxygen for 3 weekends now. I would really like to have it this week.

Thanks for understanding.

Liz

[KristiB]

Hey Kristi. I talked to Jul yesterday. She told me that she had promised you a loaner M15. This is new to me but a cool idea. I will send out an M15 tomorrow. But this one wont be a loaner, you can keep it. The Tornado should fit in the same box. I will send a call tag in the box with the M15 for the Tornado. I will repair it and update it and send it back. I am sorry for your trouble. jack:oops:

..

[Elizabeth Beads]

So what happened KristiB? Did you get your concentrator? No one at UO answered the phone today. I am way frustrated. I need my Oxy!

[Elizabeth Beads]

Well, I am so excited. My new oxycon is in transit! Thanks, Unlimited Oxygen! I totally can't wait to torch with an oxidation flame. I just know my beads will be amazing. Lol!