Who's Been Using the New Mapp/Pro?
 

After a couple weekends of wondering why my marver was getting so hot and why I was again burning certain types of glass, I looked at my 1# canisters. They now say "Mapp/Pro" on them. This was a seamless transition at my Home Depot. They kept having those yellow Benzomatic canisters in stock and I kept buying them.

Worthington, who bottles Mapp/Pro, said it burns hotter, and they sure weren't kidding! Only after having a few weekends of abnormal results did I notice the name change. (I'm not dumb, just a little slow sometimes! lol) In some ways, it's like learning all over again. Sheesh.

Has anyone else been using this new replacement for Mapp? What have your experiences been?

The new "Map-Pro" by Worthington Cylinder is NOT MAPP gas. Its Propylene.

More Details here...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...hp?p=1290#1290

Dale

Sorry, Dale. I didn't mean to imply that the replacement was Mapp. Just wondered if others are using Mapp/Pro and what experience they've had with it. What do you know about how hot propolyne burns and the best way to work with it? This is where I could use some help. Thanks!

No, no, don't worry about, I kind of muscled my way in to your thread.... Map Pro was first touted to be Worthington's production of MAPP....... As it turns out, the initial information was not exactly correct.... Later research has brought to light that Map-Pro is simply a brand name for Worthington's propylene offering and it is NOT chemically MAPP.....

Its only been recently that the MSDS for Map Pro became available stating the facts about Map Pro's chemical mature. A lot of people where under the impression the Map Pro would be Worthington's offering of MAPP gas....

My posting is only for clarity so people know what fuel, chemically they are dealing with. By the way what does label on canister actually say.... Since I'm on bulk fuel, I have not looked at #1 canisters in a while.

As for how propylene burns, I have to pass on that as I have not used it, I'm sure somebody who is using propylene can enlighten us. I do know many do use it and have used it successfully.

Dale

I'm glad it's not just me burning my glass w/ this stuff #-o I'm a newbie, but managed pretty well w/ Mapp. Then I tried propane (excited it's about half the cost of Mapp or Map/Pro) and got really crappy colors. Then on to Map/Pro - still problems. Guess I'll try working further out in the flame?

- Jill, totally impressed w/ myself for uploading a photo on my first try!

Well, I'm brand new to this today and I actually have something that I can add to this topic (even though this question was brought up originally about 3 years ago). I use propylene gas and have gotten it to behave quite well for me. As I am a newbie my initial reaction to this gas was bitter disappointment. I was burning or "dirtying" all my glass and becoming very frustrated. My local glass supplier/instructor didn't have experience with propylene and wasn't able to help out. I haven't used the 1# tanks but have a large 24# tank with separate valve on the tank. The trick is to keep the propylene low in your mix. I only open the tank valve a small amount. If I'm using a glass that dirtys easily, I keep my torch turned down (I only use a hothead) and work further out in the flame.

Ive been having trouble with propylene as many have. I have a bulk tank too, about a 30# one I believe, and it is DIRTY! I recently took the hose off, after reading about people draining out the oil that accumulates, and after only about 3 weeks of little use there was a large amount of residue dripping out! I'll have to give your theory a try and only turn on the valve slightly to see if that cures my ailes!

I used it for a beginner's class - I did ok, it seemed hotter but no torch overheating issues. As long as my students kept in the sweet spot of the flame they didn't scorch the glass.

I typically use bulk propane (for comparison.)

I just tried not opening my valve on the tank full bore and it seems to have helped. Also, I just got my line back on after draining.....but anyhow, made a clear gather, then let it sit for a minute and no cloudy yellow or black! :) We shall see if it keeps up, just thought I would update!

So propylene is the same as propane? I think most of us here use propane and (though I have NO experience of MAPP) I find it clean to work in. My bead buddy says she gets her bottle refilled first thing in the morning because its cleaner and better then.

Kym

No Propylene is not the same as Propane. They are different at chemical/molecular level...

Chemically, Propane is C3H8

Chemically, Propylene is C3H6

The do exhibit similar flame/temperature characteristic though.....

In using one or the other the "sweet spot" where combustion is more complete (less glass contamination ) will vary.... One gasses "sweet spot" may be further out from the tip of torch then the other....

And as for the time of day having tanks filled, I doubt it makes much difference if any...

Dale

There must not be much between them then? You may be right but my friend would vehemently disagree and say it does make a difference when you get your tank filled. The only difference I could think of was that there maybe 10-15 degrees difference in the outside temperature of the day time between 8.30am and say 12.30pm and most bulk propane tanks are outside in full sun. My initial thought was maybe she was getting a 'fuller' tank in the morning while the temps were lower but she seemed to think she ran less chance of 'burning' the glass with morning gas....a better sweet spot in the HH?? I didn't have any other ideas to go with but I thought it was an interesting observation, if true.

Cheers
Kym

True the volume may be dependent on temperature as a liquid it would be susceptible to expansion and contraction due to temperature changes and "vapor pressure" is a function of temperature.... But other than that I doubt temperature and whether its a morning fill or afternoon fill has much to do with the fuel quality....

I also understand that the Propane in the land of "OZ" is a blend of propane and butane.... So it's not 95% of better propane as here in us...

Dale

Butane? I didn't know that....I will have to go and check that out cause I just assumed if they called it propane, that's what I was getting. Now I am concerned. I don't think minor,lynx or betta is rated for butane, are they? Whats butane doing to them?
I don't have any other ideas about my friends morning v. afternoon fills'.

Kym

I went and did a little research. Automotive LPG has butane as part of it but bottled domestic propane has not. Thats why its illegal to use automotive LPG for domestic purposes. So that's a relief.

Kym

Someone on another list I belong to is having serious problems with carbon and reduction on his beads using the new MAPP/Pro with his HH. Is there anything I could pass on that might help?

Work further out in flame where combustion is more complete.... Generally with any fuel if you are getting carbon or burnt look in glass you are in to close.... With Map-Pro you use same technique ad wijh Propylene (which is what Map-Pro is)....

Dale

MAPP-PRo ? Propane
 

So - I've been using MAPP gas - and like others here - have discovered you can't get the 1# cans anymore - have been trying MAPP pro - but since I'm a newbie anyway - I'm having difficulty with it -
For those of you who use just propane - how is it compared with MAPP and Propane/Oxygen combined? (I learned with that).
Am appreciating any help.

Propane, Mapp, MAP-Pro, propylene... all have their quirks....

All require finding sweet spot in flame where temperature is best and where there is total fuel /air combustion for cleanest flame.... Also each fuel has its own peculiar set of "problems" that some expierence and others do not.... Its kind of a toss up...

Going to a propane/oxygen system pretty much eliminates the variables that a fuel torch (hot head) has because you have a lot more control over fuel and oxygen to produce the flame type you desire (neutral-oxidizing-reducing)...

Dale

I have my torch set up a little differently than most. It is a Mega Minor and is set up to run on the 1 pound canisters. I tried the map pro and my torch promptly shut down..the face was covered in carbon buildup in seconds. We cleaned it up and started over.

I switched to the blue propane canisters and it runs perfectly..promptly melted a mandrel right in two.!! not on purpose of course...I was just not prepared for how hot it is.:grin:

Lorraine

How much torch time can you get from a 1# canister of propane with your Mega Minor? That's something I wondered. I don't think I would try using MAPP or MAP/Pro with it.

If I switch to 1# cans it is usually because I ran out of oxygen and have to switch to the Hothead.

Currently I run on a big bulk tank but will be switching to smaller tanks when we go "on the road".

My experience with the Hothead and Mapp, MAP/PRO, and propane have all been similar...it gets the job done. Being a newbie I don't notice the subtle differences. It gets hot, it melts glass, I get my torch fix...even if it is just plain ol' boring smallish rounds & rondelles.

I have had scummy streaky clear with all three, and pretty decent clear with all three when using Effetre. Just depends on how far into the flame I go.

~Rachelle

Hi Rachelle, It seems to vary depending on where I have my torch settings at.

I used a canister that was only a 1/4 full and it lasted DH for an hour and me for an hour and a half and about 30 minutes of the next day...

This is an ideal situation for "on the road" , in an apt. or like me because I only torch for 1-2 hours each session. If you plan on torching more than 2-3 hours a day then a baby BBQ tank purchased from an RV supply might be better...it is easier to lift.

I know most RV parks, KOA"s and campgrounds will not let you have a tank anywhere except where the compartments are for a tank..... or on an actual small BBQ.

Lots of places will not fill your tanks unless purchased from them or the local supplier. I have to have mine filled at the local travel RV park.

Do not swap tanks at Wal-mart or Home depots etc.. There is a terrific thread somewhere here about why.

Lorraine

This is the first time that I have use the Mapp/Pro since the store doesn't carry the old one anymore. And I am so disappointed. The flame is so strong and if I try to lessen it, it just totally goes off. All my whites and ivory colors have black stuff keep coming out of the beads and at the rod ends and also my light blue ones have reddish stuff coming out. And most of the beads I made have the black scums in it. At first I thought maybe I just have a bad canister but seeing this thread it seems that it's all the Mapp/Pro's fault. I usually could make around 12-14 beads from one of the old Mapp but now just only around 7-8 beads from the Mapp/Pro.
Is there another Mapp gas brand aside from Bernzomatic? I'm afraid I'm stuck with it since its already hard to even find hardware stores here in Hong Kong that sells the Mapp gas to begin with. And I have no other choice but to continue using the HH. Are there any ways to use Mapp/Pro effectively?
HELP!

I feel your pain, Chimehk. I had a lot of problems until I watched a local lampworker who also uses a hothead - that made a huge difference. I turned down my torch!!! Now I can even use propane without burning my glass. AND I can even use Moretti clear w/o scum.

Keep trying - turn down the flame and work further out in it.

As for your can lasting for less time.... they are no longer one pound (16 ounces) they are now 14 ounces. Same price, less gas. :roll:

Good luck. Keep trying.

Thanks Vitreous Tyro! I haven't lampwork for over 2 years and just started again. I didn't notice that its 14 ounces now, no wonder. What a bummer! Why do they ever have to stop making the old MAPP when it was doing so well.

Can anyone tell my why I shouldn't swap my tank at Home Depot or set me up with the link? I missed the memo and I'm a Home Depot swapper :S

I'll subscribe to this thread in the hopes that someone will find the link to that thread.

I was going to be hooking up to natural gas but I may have to use propane for a bit and am finding out what I can about it first.

I'd forgotten about this issue! Anybody know why Home Depot tanks are not recommended? I haven't had any problems, yet...

As for the Map/Pro- my HotHead at home was hooked up to bulk propylene when I was using it, so when I used my first cannister or Map/Pro while teaching a class this past weekend I was ok. But I DID notice I had to keep telling my students to get back out of the blue flame-which seemed extra long to me that day! (Their arms were really tired from the almost full extension lol!) Most definitely hotter, and with the newer HotHead's fuel dials being extra touchy-definitely harder to control...

In some locations some people may have gotten what they think was dirty propane. To my knowledge that is no reason that the Home Depot swaps or any other swap source should be a problem. The tanks are exchanged, in some cases you may have a brand new tank and when swapped you get somebodies older dirty tank. Unless you are really into aesthetics the tank is going to change again with next swap. The tanks them selves should all be certified and certification date should be current. All tanks should be equipped with OPD valve (by law a tank without OPD valve can not be filled - period).

Yes dirty propane may be out there also... But I have yet to find any tanks with this problem. And have yet to have anyone be able to define accurately what "dirty propane" is... I am not saying that the problem does not exist.

There was one thread where it was reported that it was a "possibility" that someplace, some druggies operating a illegal drug lab may have pumped some dangerous chemicals into a couple of tanks and they ended up in exchanges racks. At the time there seemed to be a sort of hysteria that all exchange locations could be suspect and that exchanges were not safe. SO after the initial hysteria died down there has not been one single case of anybody getting a tank filled with "dangerous chemicals" in a exchange program,...

Most dangerous thing may be getting tank with faulty valve and it is leaking propane... Really good chance that if valve is leaking, tank will feel lite when you get it because all the propane probably has already leaked out...

Other issue is maybe a tank is miss marked and whoever is working with you at exchange rack may try to hand you empty tank... You should be able to identify a empty tank by weight.. Empty tanks weigh in about 20 pounds, full tanks weigh in about 40 pounds. If you are suspicious about weight of tank good old bathroom scales will tell what is going on....

Dale

Thanks for the info Dale! Nothing but the usual stuff to worry about :)