10 LPM concentrator - choices??
Hey all :)
I'm currently on tanked O2, but am considering getting a concentrator. I'd really like a 10 LPM concentrator, because I'm starting to do some small boro sculptures. I see two that seem to be good choices. One is the Integra 10, which is pretty pricey for me (I might have to wait a while), and the other is offered by Generations Glass - an Unlimited Oxygen 1510, which is almost half the price. I know that a lot of people are sold on the Integra 10 (and I hope this is a new machine, for that price), but am wondering if the Unlimited Oxygen 1510 will work (anyone using this?), and would love some feedback. Or, are there other good options out there that I haven't found yet? Thanks!! |
You didn't mention your torch. Different torches perform better/worse with different concentrators/generators, so that bit of information would be helpful.
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I'm going to be using a Pirahna *smiles*
Justin, I did see that thread, but they're not the same concentrator. Unless you're saying that the Unlimited Oxygen 1510 is just an P-20 with a new number. (Or making generalizations, which has given me pause too and is why I started this thread *S* And why I'm asking if there are more options) |
Unlimited Oxygen has re-designed the P-20/M-20. It is now the 2010 Tornado and now has a dual compressor configuration.
The 1510 is a modified unit that is similar to what the P-20/M-20 was but does not push the concentrator beyond it's limits. These newer units have been through better testing and perform as they are designed to. |
I'm not really sure if modified Respironics Millenium units are a good thing. You already have to handle them with the most care possible since they are really fragile to begin with. The bigger units seem to be more like generators but I'm wondering if its not just the inner workings of 2 millenium units modified like the others and placed inside a bigger nice box?
Anyways I'm guessing some people have success with them if they are sold! I'd have to try one for a while to see how they fair compared to similar units |
*nods* I really wish I could try each kind out for a little bit, but I can't make it to the Gathering or anything like that. And there aren't a ton of options for the larger concentrators.
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Hi Jack :)
I saw the listing for a 1510 at Generations Glass (which I believe is a distributor, yes?) Here's the link to it.... (maybe they just got the number wrong?) http://www.generationsglass.com/Oxygen.html Thank you so much for your kind offer. That's really nice of you, and I might just take you up on it. I'm going to PM you now, so we can talk details. :) |
You can bet on the Integra 10 giving you 10 lpm at 9 psi...day after day and year and year! It is a new machine...shipped directly to you from the manufacturer. You can read about it on my website. The Piranha is the center fire of the Barracuda...there is a picture of the flame of the Barracuda with the center fire (Piranha) and full. More than enough oxy for that torch. You could actually get away with one reconditioned 5 liter with a Piranha, but not for boro. Mark Scott and Brian Silence (Sequal...manufacturers of the Integra 10) will be at the Gathering to answer any questions and demo the units. Be sure and stop by to say hello!
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Hi Paulette! I will def go read your website about the Integra 10.
The main reason I decided not to go with a 5 liter is because I do want to work some small boro. Because either purchase would be significant, I've decided I should go with something that will do both soft glass and boro. Plus, the Integra 10 is adjustable so I could turn it down the LPM if I was doing soft glass, right? Or wouldn't I need to? |
Two 5LPM devilbiss units will give you the same output specifications as an Integra (10LPM and 9PSI). They cost less and in most cases have a better warranty too! If you dont need 10LPM, just simply turn a machine off!
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Thanks for the suggestion, Justin. I'm not familiar with how you'd use two machines, as opposed to one. (though I do remember hearing some people do that...)
so how would that work? Do you daisy-chain them or something, or attach them to the same hose with a splitter? What about energy use? Would two Devilbiss run at the same energy as one Integra? And what's the noise factor of two machines as opposed to one? |
You would use a y connector to couple them. I sell the Y connectors also. They would use a little more electricity, but we're talking only a couple dollars when you get your energy bill. They might run a *tad* noisier, but these machines are real quiet to begin with so I doubt it would bother you much, if at all.
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This is the information that was given to me by you when I called to make sure that I had all of the information correct for the website. I have now changed my website to reflect the correct information. |
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Hey K, thanks for the comments. we are trying to make it better. My brother and I were talking today about the fact that we started working with lampworkers only a year ago at the Gathering. We had 1 medical unit and 1 M10. Now we have 7 concentrators and generators to offer and I cant wait to go to the Gathering. I hope to run into you again. jack :waving:
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re:unlimited oxygen customer testimonial
Re: Unlimited Oxygen Concentrator customer response ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I purchased a P-10 which arrived as an M-10 this past December for my MiniCC. When it arrived I realized that it is basically a rebuilt Respironics. Originally the business that I purchased it from recommended running it above the redline on the dial. After lots of following of threads on various forums, I've gone back to running it below the redline on the dial as it sounded like I was shortening the life of the concentrator. Here are my conclusions: I'm now considering buying a 2nd concentrator. Most of the recommendations for the MiniCC are for 2 5LPM concentrators. I thought by purchasing the P-10/M-10 that I could get by on one. However, now I'm concerned that I'm running the concentrator well past its capacity. There is a tremendous amount of discussion on Lampwork Etc. that you might find interesting if you are considering this model. I'm thinking that a 2nd concentrator would make me happier with the performance of the torch and serve as a back-up if the P-10/M-10 should give out. I haven't listened to other concentrators but I would say that unless you are working in a very small space, the concentrator is not excessively loud. I'm still designing my ventilation system and at the moment I'm using a multi-fan set-up and the fans are several times louder than the concentrator. I guess that most times the bottom line question is -- would you buy the P10/M10 again? I am reasonably certain that if I could back the clock up to last December, I would not make the same choice -- I definitely wish I'd picked a different concentrator solution. I will add it's not because I can point to any particular problems but just because I felt that I was sold something that I felt was supposed to perform at a higher level and should really just be compared to any other 5LPM medical concentrator on the market. Good luck with your decisions !! :( |
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I've noticed Larry that my question and comment went unanswered by The builders of these units and I'm guessing that what I suspect is probably true. |
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Back to the original question...no comparison...connecting 2 five liter units together, in theory, does give you 10 lpm, but at a lower pressure. But that's not the important difference...the difference is in the interior makings of the machine...#1...the Integra 10 is a new machine, directly from the manufacturer...#2...The difference in the seive bed system is all the reason the Integra 10 works much better than connecting 2 five liter units together. There is absolutely NO LAG between cycles...just smooth delivery of O2. You can see a picture of the seive module on my website on the Integra Page. All other concentrators have 2 cylinders (seive beds). They cycle back and forth, back and forth...and this does make a difference. Please don't misunderstand me...I DO NOT want to get into a 'mine is better than yours' war here...just want you to know the differences.
Paulette |
Paulette, I have two questions.
I had been told that if you add two concentrators together, then you get the combined total of the LPM and whatever the pressure is. For example: two 5 LPM machines that each put out 8 psi would yield 10 LPM at 8 psi. Is this true? If say one of those machines were only 5 psi, would that mean the combined psi would be between 5 and 8 psi, but definitely less than 8 psi? My other question is: does the speed at which other units cycle back and forth between seive beds affect how noticeable any breathing is? Do some machines have a shorter lag time than others? I am just curious how some people say that their concentrators breathe while others say that they do not. I know that my Integra does not breathe, and it's cool to know the reason. EDIT to add: PS Jack, Justin, or Larry: If any of you guys have any input, I'd like to hear from you, too. |
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I haven't tried it on one yet. I'm going to do that this week. Also, we ran those two concentrators powering a Nortel MidRange, and it ran beautifully. Plenty of flame to do large marbles and blown work. As far as noise goes, they are quieter than any standard ventilation system. I can't hear them over my fans. This week I'm going to try those concentrators (one at a time and two together) on all the torches I own and take some photos for reference... |
Oooh, I hope you do that, Chad!! I'd love to hear the results of your tests.
my goal is to not only make soft glass beads, but also do some small boro sculpture. I'd love to know what the true requirements are. I'll tell ya, decisions like this make me want to stay with O2 tanks!! LOL |
Yeah, tanks are the best, but honestly, with these two concentrators, I think my oxygen bill will go down significantly. For most of what I do, I only use the center fire on my torch. I have the 4 port manifold for my torch, so I run the center fire off the concentrators, and the outer fire off tanks. That way the only time I use anything out of a tank is when I'm using the outer fire. I am going to try the outer fire on these two concentrators, but I'm betting they might not be enough...
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Justin is right, also if you hook 2 machines together, there is no way that you can make them switch at axactly the same time. Start one machine then the other, they will not switch the same and you wont notice any fluxuating. Also what K said is true, the volume of flow will increase with 2 machines but not the pressure. Most oxycons switch every 7,8,or 9 seconds. So mis-matching should not be a problem as long as the pressures are the same. jack
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From my corner, I have used a Devilbiss 505 and it worked great for soft glass but then I upgraded to the larger concentrator from Jack and love it! I am on a Pirahna and my only concern is that it is almost too hot for my soft glass. My original unit was damaged in shipping (it had clearly been bounced and wheels were shattered). Jack worked with me on my concerns and I am definately a pleased customer. I have what was a M-15. Jack can confirm if that is the equivalent of the 1508 unit. When it cools down, I plan to play more with the boro but what little I've done so far has made me very happy with this unit!
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