I just went back to main tutorials page is this is what I found

13 threads offering free info, bead or otherwise
3 threads asking for info on technique
1 showing results of purchased tutorial
4 talking about tutorial in general for what ever reason
4 promoting purchasable tutorial

So according to my own research I've proven my above statement as false as the majority (at least at this time of writing) are overwhelmingly free info.

Donna, the good thing about the "pimping my two day sale" threads is that they die quickly because they usually don't get any responses. That doesn't mean that they aren't annoying when they're put in the wrong spot...

Isn't that the way it's supposed to be now??


I have no problem with someone asking a question on how to do things and being directed to a purchasable tutorial if it covers their question, as long as it doesn't stifle legitimate discussion. I thought what we were discussing was the proliferation of promotional threads in the main section.

I love the "for sale" tutorials; I've purchased many. I like the Tutorials for Purchase area and I go there to choose which ones I want to save up for. I don't understand why it's necessary for the same basic thread as four others previously posted, to show up in an area it doesn't belong.

and I think I read Shari's idea differently than you did, Amy.

See, to me, Shari's idea seemed to read:

1. Tutorials for Sale: threads regarding tutorials for purchase go here.
2. Tutorial for Free: threads regarding tutorials for free go here.
3. Main Tutorial Section: general discussion goes here, as well as announcements about paid tutorials and current sales, and questions from possible tutorial vendors about making a tutorial on stuff, etc.

And I think if we do that, a lot of good information will get lost. Not every "free tutorial" is a written step-by-step document. There are lots of free gems within threads that ask questions. So if we separate out the "free" stuff, then someone has to go back and recopy stuff to the new "free tutorial" section to save it, otherwise it'll get lost in the deluge.

I remember a really long discussion about "newbies" who didn't bother searching for the answers to the questions, and how important searching is before you ask for answers, otherwise you're showing a sense of entitlement, etc. Shouldn't we be trying to figure out the best way to make sure that valuable information isn't lost and requested ad nausium??

Getting back to Kalera's statement:

Why can't we just do that with the main tutorial section right now?? That's a lot of what people have been asking for.

Well that won't fix a darn thing, really. Personally I think that all the threads about tutorial sales and discounts don't even belong in the tutorials for purchase section but I guess Corri doesn't agree. I think they should be kept in the self promotion section. You already announced your tutorial months ago, any further sale or discount threads are spam to me. Spam.

(raising my hand...) But isn't having 3 separate forums just going to complicate the issue? To solve this problem we have to address what's actually causing it.

The reason there's a problem with keeping posts where they should be is that the paid tutorials forum, because it's a subforum of the main tutorials forum, is perceived as receiving less attention. Tutorial authors feel if they don't post about their paid tutorials in the main forum too, they will be overlooked.

The easiest way to resolve this problem would be to get rid of the paid tutorials subforum, replace it with a free tutorials subforum, and let both paid and free tutorials be discussed in the main forum. That way, all tutorial authors (both paid and free) would be free to post in the main forum, anyone who wanted to see info about all tutorials (both paid and free) could find it in the main forum, and the free tutorials subforum would be limited to discussion of free tutorials only, for those who don't want to see any posts about paid tutorials. Seems to me that that way, everybody would be happy. Paid tutorial authors wouldn't feel they were being segregated from the "real" forum where all the action is, and those who are only interested in free tutorials would have a subforum dedicated to free tuts, where paid tut authors aren't going to feel a need to crosspost because they can already post in the main forum.

To sum up, I'm suggesting:

Tutorials - Discussion of any tutorials, paid or free
Free Tutorials (Subforum) - Discussion of free tutorials only

Mind you, I suspect that if Corri really wanted to make any changes, she probably would have already.

I'm still thinking about the rest of your post, but I wanted to respond to this.

I think that "the paid tutorials forum... receiving less attention" is a false assumption that many vendors make, and I would disagree that the Tutorials For Purchase section is overlooked by everyone. I realize that's why vendors do it, but I disagree that isn't as good of a section. I think it's the perfect section, because I think us customers know that that particular section is where all the polished gems are, the ones that people spent hours and hours perfecting their tutorial.

That's where I go when I want the special techniques and book quality tuts. There's no need to market to me everywhere. and I know I'm not alone in that.

I think you would find that with your suggestion, your tutorial threads would get buried on page two or more much quicker than they do now. Mixing the paid tutorials in with general discussion would mean that no one would be able to find the paid tutorials easily. Right now they are easily accessible once you sort through all the "for sale" threads that should be deleted. I'm not sure why tutorial writers would think that their thread would get overlooked in the paid section. I never thought that. I never pimped mine in the general section either. Never. It doesn't belong there.

Just my opinion.

I didn't say it received less attention or that it isn't as good of a section. I said it was perceived to receive less attention. It's the perception, whether or not it's true, that is causing this problem.

And your tutorial is one of the one's I've purchased. I saved up for that from the first moment I saw it.

And it didn't need to be in the main section.

You called it a ghetto earlier. :lol:

:love::flirt:

The way I use the forum, if I wanted to buy tutorials I'd go straight to the "Tutorials for Purchase" section and browse through them.

I caught that sentence right before you posted, and I changed it to read, "I think that "the paid tutorials forum... receiving less attention" is a false assumption that many vendors make". Because you're right, it's all about perception.

But if it's a false assumption, then let's work on that assumption.

I can easily see vendors saying "Well, I posted in the wrong section, and I got ten more sales. So that must be what caused it." That's easily false too, because I know I have to save up money to buy, and I might buy after that thread went up, but it was in spite of that, not because of it.

Whatever the assumption, shouldn't we be trying to uphold the current set of very lenient rules in place? I would hope it's not going to break any person's business to refrain from posting in the main section.

Ditto... I agree.. I find it a bit misleading to see something in the main listing to only click on it to learn it is an advertisement for a "tutorial for sale".
If I am looking for a new tut to purchase, I go direct to the "Tutorials for Purchase" section...

Darlene

How?

LMAO! that's the million dollar question \\:D/

Since we're talking about where we go when we do want to buy, something else just popped into my head.

I think Amy's banner is the perfect advertisement for her tutorial, and I love to see it every time she posts. It makes me feel happy to see those dots, because I feel inspired to try to use that technique.

Kim, I love your banner too, and it reminds me in a much nicer way that I want to buy that tutorial. In fact, I'd love to see more banners, side by side, for the other tutorials. A whole bar of them across the bottom of your posts would be gorgeous *G*

Another random thought:

Maybe the "Tutorials for Purchase" section should allow people to delete their own threads. That way, you can have Sale posts in there that can be deleted afterwards, and still have a good list of what's still available.

That might be a change Corri is willing to make. *crosses fingers*

Are thread-starting posts not deletable by the OP?

I think they're only deletable in the Garage Sale.

(*ponders* is that the only place?)

Nope. It would help to get rid of all of those "One day sales" and "Groundhog day sale" and "Pre-order sale" if they could be deleted. Counting the expired sale threads on the first two pages of the Tutorials for Purchase section...18.

Well, hope you guys get it all figured out. For me this is way too much time spent debating something I would definitely categorize as "the small stuff," but I'll respect whatever the general consensus is. Cheers to you all.

True, this really is small stuff compared to most things in life. But I'd think not irritating potential customers would be big stuff to a business owner.

The process for deleting your own post is to report it (click on the little exclamation point icon in the top right corner) and request that it be deleted. Corri is usually pretty quick about it.

Of course I don't want to irritate potential customers, Chris. All I meant was that where the paid tutorial section ends up and where the free section ends up is not enough of a big deal to me to continue arguing about it. I did say in my last post that I would respect whatever the general consensus was.

It doesn't seem like it's that big of a problem; actually, having expired sale promotion posts in the tutorials for sale section seems like a bigger hindrance to me, in terms of making it more cluttery and harder to find the actual tuts. It seems like it would be really effective if a tut seller PMd Corri (otherwise she probably won't even see this thread) and ask that threads be made deletable in the tuts for sale section just as they are in the garage sale section. It makes perfect sense for the same reasons.

Good to know.

Let me preface this by saying I LOVE my tutorials. I have most of them for sale here on LE in my Paid Tutorial folder on my laptop. :shock:

None of them has been purchased by clicking on a link in the main tutorial section. If you're concerned that you're not getting enough exposure for your tutorial for purchase (given the multiple areas there are to let the rest of us know), you can always buy a banner add. Doesn't every other vendor have to pay to have ads here?

And as for the percentage of free tutorials in the regular section, I went to the back pages the other day and bumped up a few because they were good ones and were worth revisiting. The ones that got bumped to the second page because of this were 3 for or about paid tutorials, and one that was asking for info. I just noticed that it hadn't really been answered and got pushed back.

Peace.

This pretty much sums up this thread for me.

Remember Corri is the one and only Admin to the whole site, no moderators, no help.

I just did a quick check in this area and came up with about 900 threads.That isn't even counting the paid tutorial threads that average another 350 threads. So dividing that up into 3 sub categories, could take days.

Many of these threads you could not tell just by reading the title what category they would belong in. This is speaking from someone who has moved threads before.
Would it be worth your time and effort?



Damselfly, You can delete your own threads in the Garage, Auctions and Self Promotions, and Classes, Retreats and Get Togethers etc. Also if you are a LE vendor, you can delete your own threads in the Sale Rack, as only LE vendors are allowed to post in that area.

If Corri gave me moderator status for one day I'd be more than happy to do it. But I know this conversation is making a few people weary and it's not really accomplishing anything anyway.

Thanks for clarifying that, Shawn. I knew there was more, I just couldn't think of them.

I don't think that most people feel that changing things around would improve this section. It sounds to me like most people like this area the way it is, but would like vendors to post in the area that was created especially for them. Why create more work than we need to? Why can't the current system be used as it was designed?

And I would bet anything that Corri hasn't done anything like move or delete threads because no one reports them. I know I don't want to report them; I'm not trying to be vindictive.

Has anyone asked Corri if it was possible to make the Paid Tutorial section deletable by thread owners? I agree with Kalara that it should prob be a vendor. Amy, (I'll shamelessly ask :) ) will you leave Corri a message?

By the way, since this thread was brought back up, I think it's a bummer that Lisa AF's thread asking about Kim's tutorial wasn't started in the Paid Tutorial section. I think it would have gotten just as many views and just as many responses, and it would have increased the view rate of all the threads in that section.

I've sent Corri a message weeks ago about how cluttered the tutorial section was and never heard back from her. I doubt contacting her again would give me any different results.

I certainly agree about separating things. Thats said, I just went to post new price info about my paid tut, and had to look pretty hard to find the right section. I knew it was there, but almost posted here by accident. I'm just not on le enough to remember that it was kind of a sub-category.

How about 1 thread per tutorial. You write it, you start the thread, then you can promote your sales, discounts, ect in that thread. Then everyone can see what the changes have been.
Since we can edit out own posts, the OP can go in and update the original post for the special or sales and people would not have to go looking for the info. Fewer thread, less chance of getting buried.

I like the solution above - keep this thread, but above have a tutorials for sale thread and a free tutorials thread

It's been separated and it looks AWESOME in there... the division really showcases what a fantastic wealth of great FREE information the members of this forum offer. :love: Thanks Amy!

I'm still working on it. I think I have 19 more pages in the main section to sort out but I may be done today. :)

You've done great work *hugs*

What did Corri say about sales and promotions for paid tutorials in the main section?

Thanks. Corri didn't address that issue. She just gave me free rein to house clean.

You're doing a great job Amy. I like!

Patsy

I can't believe the huge wealth of free tutorials here that have gotten lost in all the chatter and questions. It's so nice to get them all separated. People should really take the time to go through them once I'm done.

Aye Aye captain. I think I might play Tut Roulette and just randomly pick a tutorial to try each week. Thank you for all your work

Where's the "like" button! :lol: I think that is a great idea, one I might try to get out of my funk!!

If other people are interested we could play a version of this in the patio? Take advantage of the new free tutorial section. Roll a dice, try the tutorial then post our results (Do you post what you have made in the free tutorial thread or is that a no-no?)

It really does look great ~ Amy, thanks for doing all the sorting! I'm excited, now everybody can find what they are looking for so much easier, and we have a place to discuss, ask questions, etc without littering up the tutorial libraries! Yeah!!!!!

Jo

Pol, you could do a random number generator to pick a free tut, then put up a weekly or monthly challenge with a link to the tut. I love that idea!


Jo

I can only say for myself but I love to see what people do with my tutorials! I don't think it would be a no-no!

Done! As of this exact moment, the only thing that is in the Tutorial for Purchase section are completed tutorial ready for purchase. The only thing in the Free Tutorial section are completed free tutorials. Basically if it didn't fall into one of the above categories it went to the main tutorial section. All out dated sale threads were deleted.

You Rock Amy!!!!!