Torch Consumption Rates
Here are the maximum consumption rates for various torches used for lampworking. I'm starting this off with the numbers that I had off the top of my head or easily at hand. I will edit as necessary to reflect accurate rates and to add more data. Most rates were taken from the manufacturers. Some rates were acquired through testing that I had done and will be noted with[*].
Some rates are what is measured when the valves are all the way open. Other rates are what is measured when running the largest usable flame. I feel that these are the most useful numbers and will note them with [++] Disclaimer: While I have made every effort to ensure that this information is correct, I cannot gaurantee it. Use this data at your own risk. Most of these rates are listed as cubic feet per hour (CFH). To convert to LPM, multiply by 0.472. Where I have both oxygen and fuel consumption rates listed, I list the oxygen rate first. Fuel will be for propane unless otherwise noted. GTT Bobcat: Lynx: ++14-15 CFH / 3.5 CFH Cheetah: ++22 CFH Phantom: ++35-40 CFH Mirage: ++55 CFH Delta Elite: ++65 CFH Delta Mag: ++80-90 CFH Cobra: Python: Viper: Bethlehem Minnow: 20 CFH Betta: 12 CFH Piranha/centerfire: (++*16 CFH oxy), 9.6 CFH / 2.8 CFH Barracuda: ++42 CFH / 8.4 CFH Tiger Shark: ++48 CFH / 12 CFH Great White: ++84.5 CFH/ 48.1 CFH PM2D: ++65 CFH / 37 CFH Carlisle Mini CC: 7 LPM (standard usage) Wildcat: Hellcat: Lucio torch: CC: ++*80 CFH CC+: Black Widow: Nortel Minor: ++14 CFH Mega Minor: Midrange: Major: RedMax: Red Rocket: SSQ: Knight Little Dragon 7-hole: 50 CFH/25 CFH (NG) Little Dragin 21-hole: 150 CFH/75 CFH (NG) Bullet: 50 CFH/25 CFH (NG) for the center and 100 CFH/50 CFH (NG) for just the outer = for a toal of 150 CFH/75 CFH (NG) Dragon Fire: 180 CFH/90 CFH Dragon Master: 330 CFH/165 CFH Dragon Slayer: 676 CFH/338 CFH Premier National 8M SM7 tip: National 8M SM21 tip: Herbert Arnold Arni: Zenit 65: 165.9 CFH As we get more and more information together, I will put this all in a spreadsheet that will be much easier to read. |
Whoa!!
Those Knight numbers are way off. 150 CFH Holy S**T Batman |
Awesome start, Kimberly .. . is it cool if I cut and paste as this progresses? Trey questioned the 150 CFH, maybe a typo?
I also coverted CFH to LPM based on how you told me to calculate in the other thread coz my brain works in lpm! lol! Please do correct me if I did my conversion wrong! GTT Bobcat: Lynx: 14-15 CFH / 3.5 CFH (please clarify this, Kimberly! Thanks!) Cheetah: 22 CFH / 10.4 LMP Phantom: 35-40 CFH / 16.5-18.9 LPM Mirage: 55 CFH /26 LPM Delta Elite: 65 CFH / 30.7 LPM Delta Mag: 80-90 CFH / 37.8-42.5 LPM Cobra: Python: Viper: Bethlehem Minnow: 20 CFH / 9.4 LPM Betta: 12 CFH / 5.7 LPM Piranha/centerfire: *9.6 CFH / 4.5 LPM Barracuda: 42 CFH / 19.8 LPM . . . / 8.4 CFH (?_ Tiger Shark: Great White: PM2D: 65 CFH / 30.7 LPM Carlisle Mini CC: 14.8 CFH / 7 LPM (standard usage) Wildcat: Hellcat: 29.7 CFH / 14 LPM Lucio torch: CC: *80 CFH / 37.8 LPM CC+: Black Widow: Nortel Minor: 14 CFH / 6.6 LPM Mega Minor: Midrange: Major: RedMax: Red Rocket: SSQ: Knight Little Dragon 7-hole: 50 CFH/25 CFH (NG) / 23.6 LPM/11.8 LPM (NG) Little Dragon 21-hole: 150 CFH/75 CFH (NG) Bullet: 50 CFH (center) + 100 CFH (outer) = 150 CFH total/75 CFH (NG) (Trey questioned this one!) Premier National 8M SM7 tip: National 8M SM21 tip: Herbert Arnold Arni: Zenit 65: 165.9 CFH / 78.3 LPM __________________ |
2 Attachment(s)
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I am attaching the pdf files from Knight. |
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I included the pdf file for those rates (see previous post) |
I guess Knight has a typo. I worked on a knight bullet burner or several weeks full time and consumed about the same O2 as a Barracuda, maybe a little less.
This was on tanks and working at times at the max output of the torch. This really points out that what Brent is working on is a good idea. A full listing of torches and consumption compiled by a qualified operator familiar with the production techniques we use. Perhaps the numbers from the manufacturers are not real world numbers. Looks like we will find out as soon as Brent has a chance to complete his research. |
Wow, this info is great. Anyway it can be made a sticky?
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For the torches that we have been testing for the past few years, we use very high quality in-line flow meters and pressure gauges (costing several hundreds of dollars - not the cheap type) and measure the largest usable flame. I cannot speak for the other companies out there, but GTT knows flame characterisitics very well. |
I updated the info for the Piranha and added more Beth torch specs thanks to Flamesetter on GLDG. :) I have the same spec sheet that he has, but mine is in a box of my office stuff right now. I can double check the numbers on my sheet later, but these numbers are what I remember, anyway, for those torches.
Beth had listed the Piranha as consuming 9.6 CFH, but we tested it (well, the centerfire of a PM2D - same thing) at 16 CFH |
Thanks Kimberly and Brent. It's about time we have a real discussion about this topic. There is just so much misinformation out there. I'm so happy to see people trying to put out reliable info.
I just wish that the manufactures of the torches and concentrators would get together and come up with a standard of measurement us simple folk can relate too. Also I think it would be a big help if BTU's were part of the equation. But thanks to everyone that worked on get out accurate info. Scott |
I have posted this information on several threads, but just had not put it all together in one place until now.
Thanks, Brent, for lighting the fire to get me to re-post all the work I have been doing for the last few years.:) |
Hey Kimberly . . . give me a wee bit of credit for lighting the fire to get you to post this, will ya? ;)I knew that if I were to start compiling the list in the other thread, you data geeks will surely correct me and fill in the blanks!!!
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...&postcount=172 Quote:
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LOL
Hayley, thank you, too! I kept mentioning that the data I collected was posted but that I would put this info in its own thread. I guess it was good that you weren't going to wait on me. You pulling up my previously posted numbers and the numbers posted on the Carlisle and Beth sites was the kick in the pants I needed to just get on with it. Thank you. I'm just glad that this is in its own thread where the info won't get buried. |
Just a question here, I notice that all the adds for GTT torches list the Cheetah as 12 jet torch, mine has 13 jets, I may be a bit slow in some respects but I can count, it seems there must be two models, were the tests done with a 12 jet Cheetah or a 13 jet Cheetah?
Bernard |
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Oh an thank you too Hayley.
Didn't want to leave you out. :lol: |
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I have someone who swears his CC consumes less oxygen than my phantom. He's wrong correct?
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I suppose if you rage your phantom and he runs his CC like a wimp sure. I know my CC ate oxygen at bank breaking rates.
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We'll he's worked on both torches, I dont think he understands that if you run the phantom properly that it penetrates without the ragin flame. Maybe he's just jealous..
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I'm sure he is...I'd never go back to carlisle after having a GTT...and I was faithful to that CC for 8 years.
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A lot of people think that you have to scream the oxygen through the torch to get the hottest flame. That does not give the hottest flame at all, because running a torch with excessive oxygen really cools down the flame.
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I think that on some torches, you have to run a lot of oxy to get a clean flame and if someone is used to running their torch that way, when they switch to a GTT, they might run it with too much oxygen out of habit. Also, noise has a lot to do with it. They are so used to their hottest flame being super loud and rage a GTT to match the sound.
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I believe their numbers are how much gas passes through them when the valve is wide open. I put my Little Dragon on a flowbench and tested it and got similar numbers. The flowbench doesn't belong to me or I'd use it to test all the torches I have. |
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All I measured was airflow. The flowbench just measures volume. It's designed to measure the flow rate of carbeurators, but can measure anything really. I hooked it up to the oxygen inlet and turned it on with the oxygen valve wide open.
This has been over a year ago, so I don't have the exact numbers. I do remember that at wide open the Knight flowed about 1.5x as much as a Minor. |
Big Jay on the GLDG just gave me some figures for a few more of the Knight torches.
I believe that some of these really large figures are the flow measured with the oxygen valve(s) wide open. I feel that numbers showing the consumption rate for the largest usable flame are more useful. I will be making note of those numbers with [++]. |
Hey Haley,
It was the Knight Bullet burner I questioned. I can see how these figure could be correct if the measurement was based upon the largest volume of air that could pass through the torch with the valves set wide open. As far as usable flame they would be way off. |
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Here is the problem with these numbers. With out an unbiased performance model we're comparing Apples to Oranges. Example, take a Phantom, Knight Bullet and the Hellcat. These torches would be in the same class. Just by looking at the numbers one can not gleam any information with out knowing what was produced at the other end of the torch.
That is why we need to know what BTU's are being produced with the CFH. In order to get an accurate test the temperature of the flames must be measured first ( Accurately ). So that a standard for each class of torches can be determined. Then with all of the torches ( within their class ) set so their reproducing the same temp or BTU's the flow of fuel could be measured accurately. Giving a real table to compare torches. After that one could find the maximum useable flame for each torch. I'm not dismissing Kimberly hard work. I'm just saying these numbers are just one part of the equation. The other part needed would be the temperature of the flame itself. That way we're comparing Apples to Apples. Just a thought Scott |
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