Divide Tutorial and Tutorials to Purchase?
 

I love both the free tutorials and I love the Tutorials the Purchase. I have bought quite of few of them and I love being able to go there to learn a new technique especially when I'm in a creative slump.

What do you think about keeping the Tutorials and the Tutorials For Purchase sections separate? When I'm looking in the Tutorials mostly what I find are advertisements or plugs for the stuff in Tutorials For Purchase. Since all the information is available why do we have the duplicate posts?

When I look at Tutorials it would be nice to just have posts with actual tutorials or pointers to tutorials instead of re-directions to other parts of the forum.

How does every one else feel about that?

jgraff

Maybe I'm not understanding, but there is a tutorial for purchase
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70
Is this what you mean??

granny

Yes, I agree it's a problem. I don't see it changing unless Corri cleans it up or appoints a moderator to do it. It would also help if she made these threads deletable by the originator so that people could get rid of all the sale threads cluttering it up. I don't see any of that happening though because it's been brought up a number of times by many people.

Yes! I find myself avoiding this area because of the many misleading posts that SHOULD be in the purchase section.......... :(

The tutorial section has become a comercial.. leading people into posts in the other room. :wtf: This room used to flourish with new and creative tutorials for FREE. Not be littered with BUY ME posts....

(PS tutorials to buy, GREAT, in this room, wrong place, no offense to anyone, just speaking in general) I mouse over something, and if it is to buy, i keep going.... I dont pay any attention to who posted it.. and I would not remember if i bothered to look anyways :lol: )

You know, I really don't want to annoy anyone by posting about for-sale tutorials here in main tutorials section. But the "Tutorials for Purchase" section is kind of hidden away and easily overlooked, so when I have a new tutorial out, I have been posting at least one announcement here in the main tutorials forum too. I didn't think this was inappropriate because I've seen so many other people posting about their for-sale tutorials in this part of the forum, I suspect because they're afraid their announcements will be overlooked in the "for sale" ghetto, too.

Maybe we could distinguish between paid and free tutorials by posting "free" in the titles of the free ones and "$" in the titles of the for-sale ones. That way, people who don't want to risk accidentally looking at announcements for lampworking publications that they might have to (gasp!) pay for would be able to quickly skim the titles and avoid the for-sale tuts.

Ability to delete posts in this section would be nice, too.

Kim, I hear what you're saying, but isn't that the whole point of the "Auctions, self promotion, and related things" area?

Maybe the thread could be cleaned up, and Corri could add a really clear description to the title (like: "Only post information and/or free tutorial news here... if you have a for-sale tutorial, post it in one of the self-promotion threads").

Yes, and it's the whole point of the "Tutorials for Sale" area, too. But you still have lots of people posting about their for-sale tutorials in here...that's my point. I'll be happy to start confining my tutorial posts to those designated areas as soon as all of the other people who are posting about their "for sale" tutorials here in the main tutorials section do as well.

That's how I start to feel about all the people who "bump" their threads in the sales areas despite knowing and being told often not to do it.

So then I have to decide if I follow the rules and watch my posts sink to page two over and over again.

Or I bump my threads like many others do.

Shrug.

If people keep posting in the wrong places, waiting for other people to stop, no one will stop. And the right place will continue to be shunned because everyone's posting in the wrong places.

I don't think that the separate area for purchased tutorials is a ghetto. I go there, and I'm sure other people go there too. Those threads get a lot of views.

Until this site is actually moderated (yes, I said it) nothing will change. People post in the wrong part of the forum just so their post isn't missed and they do it all over the place and yes, it's annoying. There are labeled rooms here for a reason. I know quite a few people that won't buy from someone if they think they are over pimping their website in the wrong areas...one vendor comes to mind and it's no one that's posted in this thread....just so you know...

The tutorial sections are a mess here. Maybe Cosmo should start a tutorial site because I betcha that would be nice and organized.

Again, moderation would fix that.

Surely Corri doesn't expect to be able to moderate this whole site alone, right? I mean... there are helpers... right?

When I ran The Mellow Bead, I had at least eight moderators and the place was nowhere as big as this one.

Nope, no mods.

I thought we could delete our threads here! That's why I put a reminder, because I thought I could delete the thread! Sorry bout that!

There used to be mods. Then they were gone...

The ability to delete the sale posts would be very helpful in cleaning things up.

I am in favor of getting the "for sale" threads out of this section too. I am coming here less and less to look for free advice and help because it's too frustrating to find anything. Very sad that paid tutorials have sort of taken over. I certainly get writing and selling "lessons" for a technique that an artists develops. I just disagree with that over-running an area that was designed for artist who desire to share their knowledge and abilities with others. I remember the good ol' days ...

I hope this thread doesn't die because I'm hoping WHOEVER is in charge will take note and change things!!! Please.

I also get irritated at the paid tutorials being in the free tutorial section. I don't even like the posts telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

I don't get that. Isn't that what that one thread is specifically for? Why would that be spam?

Sorry, let me reword that. I don't even like the posts in the free section telling everyone that they have a new one for sale in the paid section. It's all spam IMHO.

I agree.

I also agree with this.

Me three.

Perhaps part of the problem is that this section isn't labeled "free tutorials", but simply, "tutorials". Perhaps it would help if there was a "free tutorials" subsection. Then, if someone posted an ad for a pay tut in it, anyone could report the post and it would get pulled. As it stands I don't think it's clear that this section is for free tuts only.

That is a good point. It would help because there are also posts asking questions about tutorials in general, looking for tutorials etc.

What a good idea! If there was a general "tutorials" section, then a sub "free" and a sub "paid" sections then there would be a place for conversations about tutorials, as well as announcements, etc. Excellent solution!


Jo

Many times someone's question about how to do something turns into a free tutorial so then much info may be lost if the question was asked in one section, then the tutorial that may result could end up in the general section.

That's a very good point, too, Kay!


Jo

I don't know...if you have a paid tutorial section it would imply that the other section is free.

Yup. Besides, the "free" section was here long before the whole "paid" tutorial thing.

Oh gotcha. Thanks for 'splainin'. :-)

Excellent point. If I saw a thread entitled "Tutorials" and wasn't from these parts ;-) I'd most likely assume the thread was for anything tutorial-related.

I land on a lot of threads from the NEW POSTS section. So in theory, a number of people could see the "Tutorials" thread and not know there is one entitled "Tutorials For Sale"... so they wouldn't have that frame of reference as described above.

Exactly. At the very least, it implies that anything regarding paid tutorials should go in the "Tutorials for Purchase", whether it's announcements, previews, updates, sales, etc.

I don't think it's confusing at all. I think that many people choose to post in the main thread because they think it'll get more views, even though they know it's not the right place. [-X

And given how many views many threads get within the "Tutorials for Purchase" area, I think it's completely unnecessary for people to post in the wrong place on purpose. It makes it difficult to search through each area effectively.

I highly respect all the people who adhere to the rules, and to those that knowingly post in the wrong place trying to pimp their stuff, well, it's very irritating.

I think there have been a lot of really good points being made here, let's just hope the 'Powers that Be' are listening...Hi Corrie... LOL

.......Val

Wow, I didn't even realize that "New Posts" button exists! I'll have to try it out. Thanks for mentioning it.

However, in order to start a new thread, you have to start from a specific section, don't you? So people would see the "Tutorials for Purchase" once they went into the Tutorial section.

If they're paying attention. :razz:

LMAO! Good point :) Well, considering the "New Thread" button is directly below the link to "Tutorials for Purchase", they'd have to be blind, or pretending to be blind, to miss it. :P

Yep.

Heh... I can only speak for myself but I could TOTALLY seeing me having complete tunnel vision as a woman on a mission (to post a new thread of something I feel is too exciting to wait).

But yeah, I get the point... there really is no legitimate reason to be posting "for sale" tutorials in threads other than the "Tutorials For Purchase" thread.

My thought is with this section being titled "Tutorials" it leaves it open to any discussion about tutorials. So if someone asks if you're interested in a new tutorial or letting you know that they are in the process of writing a new tutorial or discusses a tutorial that another lampworker has written, I guess that's a matter of opinion on whether it is an intent to promote or spam or pimp or just discuss.

But since the section isn't specific as to what one can discuss then I guess it leaves it somewhat open.

Maybe instead of having one subtitle for Tutorials for Sale then there should be another subtitle for Tutorials for Free and the regular "tutorial" section can be left open for "discussing" tutorials. That way you know where to look for what you're looking for and you can ignore discussions that you might find as being "spam or pimping".:shock:

I think that's the clearest solution. Then no one has to worry about what is implied.

I see what you're saying Shari, but I think Kay had a good point.

So separating out the "free" tutorials won't really solve the issue, because it will still be too difficult to search effectively.

And to be honest, I think most of the time that vendors post in the main section, they know that it's not the right section, they're just trying to get more views. I don't think that most of them are confused in any way.

I think of it this way: In the grocery store, there's a dairy section. In the dairy section, there's a milk section. When you go there, you expect all the milk to be in the milk section, not mixed in with the cheese and the butter. And the rest of the dairy section does not need to be labeled "Everything except for milk".

I also like Laura B's suggestion that Corri could reword the description to make it clearer that all threads regarding paid tutorials should go in the "Tutorials for Purchase" section. And if it would make the vendors of paid tutorials feel better about their dedicated section, perhaps we should move it out of the current "Tutorial" folder and put it underneath in the Library section of the main page. Personally, I don't think it's necessary because I still go into that Paid section regularly (as I'm sure MANY people do), even with it being a sub-forum. But whatever makes it more workable.

Let's face it, someone who's selling a tutorial has many places to promote already.
Tutorials for Purchase
Gallery (for examples of what people do with the tutorial)
Auctions, self promotion, and related things
Sale Rack

That's four. Can't the people who want to discuss things for free have one section to do that without spam posts infiltrating it?? (Sorry, but if you have three or four legitimate sections to discuss Paid tutorials, then putting something in a fifth section, even one that's a gray area, constitutes spam in my book.)

I think you're right. And for the few that DO get confused, admin can easily move a thread from one section to another.... keeping things in their appropriate section.

I think this is the fairest solution for everyone. The sense I get is that the majority in this forum just want the information on new tutorials and don't really care whether they are free or paid. It's a much smaller group of people who are bothered enough by having the paid tutorials share space with the free ones that they keep complaining about it. In light of that it just seems like the fairest compromise would be to separate the free tutorials away from the main forum. That way, the group who don't want to read anything unless it's free can go straight to the free section, and those who don't care, and just want the info on all available tutorials whether they're paid or free, can stay in the main section.

Just to clarify (I don't think everyone understood what you said) you're saying:

1. Tutorials for Sale: all threads regarding tutorials for purchase go here.
2. Tutorial for Free: all threads regarding tutorials for free go here.
3. Main Tutorial Section: general discussion goes here but no pimping or spamming about your finished tutorials whether they be free or for purchase or if they are on sale.

That would work.

I agree; that would be a good solution.

Don't know how I missed that earlier... but I think it's a brilliant idea.

I don't like option 3. If a discussion gets going and someone knows a place free or purchased to direct you to for the info you can't tell them about it.

I posted my first tutorial on LE about 6 weeks ago on Snowmen. I put FREE in the title to draw attention to those people that wanted to read a free tutorial. I knew if I didn't put FREE in plain view it would be overlooked by many thinking I was selling a tutaorial. If we had option 3 and the discussion was snowmen no one could make reference to my free tutorial. Or am I misunderstanding?

I too have noticed less sharing of ideas and more promotion on purchased tutorials and wonder if this is where some of the frustration threads have come from on purchased tutorials lately. You know the ones like "where's all the free ideas? No one's sharing tips etc." threads. Now there may be more sharing threads that what I'm seeing, I don't know as I rarely go past page 2 and on page one 75% are promoting purchasable tutorials.

For those who make purchasable tutorials please in no way take everyone's comments to mean we don't want to buy tutorials cause I think the market has proven that we do. I think I'm up to 25 or 30 now and I've had several people to make comments this last year that my beads have definitely turned a corner. But I would like to come into the tutorials section and see more sharing tips like I used to when I first joined LE several years ago.

I imagine it would be OK to direct people to a tutorial, just not to start a thread to promote your own.