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Recipe for Electroforming (Copper)
Hi All!
As I have wanted to give back for all of the knowledge that I have accumulated from you very generous lampworkers, I am sharing this recipe for an electroforming solution so that you can electroform (copper coat thicker than plating) your beads or whatever objects that you desire. Compared to purchasing an electroforming solution, this is really cheap. What you will need: (This makes 3 gallons, so if you need less, break it down accordingly) 1. A blue plastic water jug...at least 3 gallons, preferably 5 gallons 2. Large funnel 3. 3 gallons distilled water 4. 2.5 pounds of copper sulfate crystals (check hardware or swimming pool supply stores) 5. 1 pint sulfuric acid (most auto parts stores, such as Napa, have this and call it simply battery acid) 6. "New Copper Brightener Part B" (www.caswellplating.com the only thing you will have to order for the solution) The big thing to remember is "DO WHAT YOU OUGHTER, ADD ACID TO WATER". Remember this little ditty when you are making up the solution. Mixing instructions: You might want to wear a mask and nitrile gloves to mix this. Safety first:eek: 1. Pour 2 1/2 gallons of the distilled water into the jug. 2. Start pouring in the copper sulfate crystals...use the funnel if you have to. Pour in part of the crystals (1/4 to 1/2) put the lid on the jug and agitate the ****out of it...shake rattle and roll. Pour in more crystals and do some more agitating. Do this until the crystals are no longer dissolving...that means the solution has reached maximum concentration. 3. Add the whole pint of sulfuric/battery acid. Agitate some more! 4. Add about 1 TBL of the "New Copper Brightener Part B". Agitate! 5. If you have a 3 gallon jug and there is room, top it off with more distilled water. Don't do this if you have the 5 gal. jug as the extra room is for easier agitating and the solution will become too weak. You are done with the solution. Pour what you need into your electroforming bath container. When you are done (hours, days, weeks, whatever) run it through a filter back into the jug. It is also handy to put a cheap aquarium pump into the solution while you are electroforming. Follow your electroforming instructions using "Copper Conductive Paint" on non-metallic objects (also order from www.caswellplating.com ). Porous objects need to be lacquered first. Glass does not. Copper conductive paint and copper wire provides the conduit for the current. Paint your design on the object, bead etc and attach your copper wire from the negative (cathode) somewhere to the paint. This is not intended to be a complete electroforming tutorial, which can be extensive...just to give you the recipe. Electroforming instructions can be found online. http://www.katefowle.com/pages/tips.php I will post a photo of some items that I have done using this solution. |
A couple of additional notes on above recipe: As the solution evaporates with use, add small amounts of distilled water.
As the brightening effect seems to be wearing off add small amounts of the Copper Brightener Part B...about 1 tsp (if you are making the whole 3 gallons). I use a big bath and put several items in at a time. I use a Rubbermaid or Sterlite deep plastic tub with lid. Questions maybe pm'd to me or asked here!! |
Thank you. I will give it a try next time I need more solution. Do you think it will be okay to add what I make to the existing batch (purchased) I have now?
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I don't see why not. Even tho it's got the acid in it, it isn't really caustic. The stuff you have is probably close to the same. To be sure, do it outside and wear a mask, and do just a little bit at a time.
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OMG. Awesome. Thank you.
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I mix my own solution and have not added the brightener. Just the crystals and the acid. I haven't had much time to play with my recipe and the only difference I noticed between the commercially mixed product and my recipe was that the electroform was laid down thicker than with the commercial version of solution. Being that the thickness of the copper is a function of the current, I need to do more experiments to determine if my solution is conducting the current better or if the diff of .5 vs .7 really caused the heavier deposit.
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I love this thread. I'm going to go delete the one in the Garage Sale section now...
------- edited to add... @Patti I bought this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Haven't had a chance to try it out yet, though. |
You know...you could be right on the brightener not being really needed. I have a eurotool bench polisher and that will bring up a nice shine too. If you can get the other ingredients readily ( should be no problem) then try it before you spend $$ on the brightener and waiting for it to arrive. The conductive paint is essential tho. My bottle of brightener will last me 3 lifetimes...i have a problem in not buying small amounts. If it wasn't a shipping problem (hazardous) i could send you all some.
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Hannah...the rectifier is almost identical to mine. It should work well for you.
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http://www.mastechpowersupply.com/dc...prod_64.htmlas
Has anyone been able to say whether this is the same machine as the rectifier you are using for electroforming? |
Bump
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I asked the dh who was an electrician and he said it should be fine. BTW...mine is a HY1505. Good price!
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Yes Dawn-that would be what you need. A LOT cheaper than the Rio one.
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Yay! I am going to get one:)
We will have to set a play date Marie. |
That we do!
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Wow, thank you..
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Did it... The recipe works perfectly.
The copper conductive paint I bought from Rio Grande, however, was decidedly NON CONDUCTIVE. What a big waste of money. I should have gone with the other stuff, but was trying to save time. And they still haven't refunded me, even though they already knew their product was a dud. I have the other stuff being delivered today, but MEANWHILE, if you take latex paint (white) and add enough graphite powder to it to make it medium grey (Shawn makes graphite tools, so we always have plenty of that), you get really conductive paint. |
Hey...that is good to know on the conductive paint!!! I have bottle of graphite powder some place in the shop and it probably was pretty cheap. I will have to try that!! Thanks, Hannah for that little bit of info!!!
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Wanted to again say thank you for this post.. I am anxious to try it out. I have been looking for some time. Now to get the machine itself and I will be all set. Thank you.
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Yes...to answer your question. I use a 1505 and this is a 1503. Mine doesn't have a ground connection, so i would just ignore the one on this machine. Hook up red/positive/anode and black/negative/cathode. Or you can go with the 1803 which is like Hannah's which is 3 amps and 18 volts...slightly more voltage.
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Whoa, they want $20 for shipping? That seems excessive :lol:
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I found it on amazon with $16.49 shipping, but then I found this and it's free shipping if you have prime: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=AMH4W1K8OCGMX so it's actually the same price as the one listed from mastech but with more voltage... so... clicking purchase now :D Thanks!
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Traci...that's a great one! Same as Hannah's. Good luck with the electroforming!!!
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This is great! Thanks for sharing Carol, I was just thinking about getting back to do some electroforming.
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so we don't need the tinning solution? I am getting ready to order the supplies from caswell. thank you again.
Oh and can the copper paint be applied with a brush instead of an airbrush. |
Yes to the brush. The copper conductive paint i got from Caswell is silver in color...at least mine was. Works fine. Thin with distilled water if needed. If you can get a small bottle of brightner, i would get it since you are ordering anyway.
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Carol, thank you for sharing.
Great thread. |
Thanks for this :wave:
I've never done this, I see some kits have a fish tank heater, any need for that? It is very cold in my garage where I will be doing this. And Traci, did yours come with leads? They never show them with leads, if they do not, what kind do I buy? I see so many and I get confuzzled. |
Anymore info fpr the newbs? lol Like Ravens lead question?^
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I asked the question about leads to amazon and the seller "electronixx" responded that the leads are included with their Tekpower 1803D unit. Here is the amazon.com link Amazon Tekpower 1803D. Price is $59.99 free shipping.
SBerg |
I tried the conductive paint from Rio and it doesn't work. I thought maybe I had gotten a bad batch so I ordered another jar. That too was bad so I emailed Rio and did get a refund. I highly recommend using Safer Solutions copper conductive paint and it can be diluted with distilled water. My rectifier is the one on Amazon. I do want to try the graphite in latex paint - talk about a savings!
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Yes I bought a jar of graphite powder to try, thanks to you and Hannah for the heads up on rio's.
Mine also came with leads, my seller said 'banana to alligator' if you happen to need them. I guess they just come with them, I wasn't sure. So as far as heating, I can't find much since all the links are for buying a heater lol. But I think if you're in the frozen tundra like me it can only help. I did find this page with temps http://gaterosplating.co.uk/Hints-and-Tips.php I have a few tiny heaters for bettahs i can use. |
I'm picking up some graphite later this weekend at Mills Fleet Farm... It should be around $5-10 for a 1 pound bottle. The actual product is "EZ Slide Graphite Powder Seed Flow Lubricant" 1 pound bottle. I have found it online for $4.50 but the shipping is ridiculous as usual... Hopefully my Fleet Farm has it in stock. I'm going to try mixing with latex paint as well as floor wax if I can find the bottle I bought some time ago for some other project :). I think the floor wax will be more waterproof for the organic items... Once my 1803D arrives, I'll give it a go and post results if anyone's interested. I have a tiny pinecone that I've been saving for SOMETHING... Now I know why... But it won't be the 1st thing I electroform as I don't want to mess it up.
Thanks for all the info you guys! This is going to be fun... Sharon in Iowa |
Use lacquer on organic items...the entire item needs to be sealed and dried. Do this before the conductive paint. I have soaked small cones in a lacquer/thinner mix...problem is they are still there...5 years later. Go figure!! On the leads to the rectifier...just remember red to positive/anode, black to negative/cathode. Attach with alligator clips or other clamps that are metal.
One other thing, the aquarium pump is to move the solution around, not to heat the solution. If you are living in a cold environment, try putting your container of solution on a medical heating pad or heating type tray (I have an old Salton tray). Heating pad would be my choice. NOT, and I repeat, NOT on a hotplate unless you are using glass as a container. Plastic would melt and you would end up in a 'pretty pickle'. Safety first and have fun. It is a great process...one I do not use nearly enough!!! |
Just curious Carol... What did you mean when your wrote "I have soaked small cones in a lacquer/thinner mix...problem is they are still there...5 years later. Go figure!!" I'm not sure if you mean that the lacquer/thinner mix was soo successful that your copper pine cones are still in one piece 5 years later or something else ](*,)
Sharon in Iowa |
Ha ha...no i meant that they are still soaking. I never got around to finishing them. For some organic items, anything that is super porous, a soaking in lacquer and lacquer thinner solution will help. Dry the items and then coat again with lacquer before painting or dippin in conductive paint. The item needs to be sealed sufficiently enough to keep the electroforming solution from soaking into it. If your item isn't porous, just use the conductive paint.
Remember that you will need to have all the parts being electroformed in direct contact with the cathode, usually with wire. The current can only flow through whatever is connected. Hope this helps. |
:o Have you ever tried straight graphic powder? Say after draining your pinecone from the lacquer, dipping into the powder, tapping off the excess... dip into both or just the graphite powder again? I think I'm going to experiment with this method just to see how well the item gets covered. Probably will be rough looking vs the brush on method... Can't use my mini pinecone though... it's the only one I have :o I'll start with some shells as I have lots of those...
So you're saying I would need to wrap the pinecone with a few turns of wire (finer gauge... 26-28?) to make it more conductive overall? Just wrapping the stem wouldn't be enough if the graphite coating is complete? Thx, Sharon in Iowa |
I think that if you have a really good coating of conductive paint one heavier wire on the stem (18 gauge) would be enough. Mind you, I have never worked with the graphite powder...so you are on your own with that one. Try it on the shells, they are non porous. but the powder needs some type of lubricant to make it stick. Another way to get the wire to stick on is with wax (jewelers wax) keeping in mind that the wax would also need a coating of your conductive material, either paint or the graphite. You might ask Hannah how she is doing with her graphite powder/latex paint application! Can anyone answer this...is graphite some type of metal material?? How does it conduct the electricity is what I am wondering?? Does it have a high quantity of lead??? Going to look on the internet. Maybe I will find answers!
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Okay! Found one answer on [url]www.preservearticles.com[url] here it is: "The presence of free electrons makes graphite a good conductor of electricity and it is used to make electrodes." That being said, Hannah's use of graphite would appear to be right on the money!!! That is money in our pockets as I am sure it is much cheaper and more readily available than conductive paint. Maybe that is why my conductive paint is silver...although for the $$ is may as well have silver in it. LOL WAY TO GO, HANNAH!!! Now to dig out my bottle of graphite powder and give it a whirl.
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So I made it to Mills Fleet Farm yesterday and sure enough they had a 16 oz (by weight) bottle of EZ Slide Graphite Powder. IT WAS $6.29... They also had much larger containers proportionately priced.
I was also happy to find 4" x 10" copper/brass sheets in gauges 16 thru 32 (not all gauges in each metal); I purchased 28/32 brass sheets @ $3.09/4.69 and 22/26 gauge copper sheets @ $5.89/7.79. They also had tiny tubing and solid rods in aluminum and brass as well as a few very small sizes of copper tubing at what I thought are also very good prices. I live just outside Des Moines Iowa and even though it's a reasonably sized metropolitan area, we have few sources for craft/hobby stuff. And at the very few specialty "hobby" shops (not Joann or Michael's, etc.) their prices are very high... Anyway thought I'd share the info in case anyone has a Mills FF nearby :) I'll be trying the graphite powder mixed with latex paint first, as I couldn't find the liquid floor polish (wax) that I wanted. I'll post results once the rectifier arrives and I get going... Sharon in Iowa p.s. MFF also had the EZ Slide Graphite Powder in an alkyd "paintable" product... I guess this is a great thing to use on the underside of lawnmower decks. Keeps the grass from sticking... Anyway, even though it's not water based and easily cleaned up, might be worth trying. I'm curious as to how thick it is... couldn't tell by shaking the can :)... |
If you don't have a Mills Fleet Farm near by you could try using the carbon arc rods sold at welding shops although I think you may have to buy a box of some 2 dozen. Mine gave me a half dozen from a damaged box when I expressed interest in them.
Graphite is pure carbon. You can shave the copper cladding off the carbon arc rods with a razor and just keep shaving the carbon in to a powder to mix with your paint. I was thinking that inexpensive nail polish could work as a paint substitute or maybe even good old Elmer's glue thinned enough and mixed with this carbon dust. The trouble with open pine cones is that you will have lots of "fingers" but unless you can get your graphite paint up into the crevices the fingers are not electrically connected. Some companies are using oil paint on the surface of a water bath to get the paint into all the nooks and crannies of unusually shaped objects. Maybe spraying or poring some kind of lacquer or paint on a tub of water and then sprinkling a good amount of carbon/graphite dust on that would get enough of the paint and the graphite into all of the crevices to make an entire pinecone conductive. |
Dang I hadn't thought of Fleet Farm for graphite! I will remember that. I paid 6 for 2 oz on ebay lol, free ship but still.
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For the laquer, I bought water based, does it matter? I was just reading and it said 'plastic lacquer', now I'm afraid I will have to go back and return it. I've been sick so I thought I could sit and paint some things I've saved forever. |
I'm using real lacquer (oil based) as that's what I have on hand. I have three finishes; satin, semi-gloss and gloss. I chose to use satin. Hope it works OK... I see now why the pine cone needs to "soak"... The leaves of the cone are coating fine, but the top seems to keep soaking in the lacquer; I've let soak/dry over night twice as well as the first few coats dip/dry the first day. My shells are patiently waiting as testers...
I have almost all my stuff; thought I'd use a regular glass jar for the solution, but what I have isn't big enough and what I found at the store was too big... Ordered the 1000ml beaker from Amazon last night. Can't wait to try this out! Maybe by the end of the week... What do you guys do with the CS solution when not in use? I liked the jar idea as I could then seal with the lid, but beakers don't have lids. Pour back into the original bottle with a funnel? And can you wash/rinse/dry the beaker in the kitchen sink with no worries? Thanks, Sharon in Iowa |
Good questions, I wondered too about storage and disposal. I read for hours last night just to learn as much as I could in general, I didn't find any answers on that. Which btw there is an oldie but goodie thread here someone boosted http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13716
..edit oh lol I see you already posted in it. Also in one of the millions of articles I read last night someone uses water based lacquer, so I'm ok with that. Oh and Tink mentioned she did also in that thread. |
the solution is reusable for quite some time. I have a large amount of solution and keep it in a 3 gal water jug. If you made a smaller amount a clean plastic milk carton will work. When you put it back into the storage container use a coffee filter in a funnel. Shake or agitate it good before reuse as it settles. You may even notice crystals forming at the bottom. After a lot of use it will be come dark looking,so use the filter/ funnel. I have yet to dispose of any, but would think it needs to go to hazardous waste. YES, you can wash your utensils in the sink!!
Would love to see pictures of what you all do!! BTW not to make any one jealous or anything...but I am visiting in Florida and going to beadcamp next week!! Woot Woot!!! |
Well here's my belated report... I got my setup set up and my graphite painted shell only plated at the end where the wire was touching. I will admit that i did not leave it in very long once I noticed that it wasn't EF all over the surface simultaneously. I removed the shell and "restrung" it on the suspension wire and it again plated only in the very immediate areas where the wire was touching; 2nd time was touching at both ends. The good news is what was plating was bright penny colored and shiny.
My question is if I had left it in to continue the process would the plating have continued to spread from those initial points to eventually cover the entire shell or would the EF just get thicker at these two points? In an Interweave video I purchased, the process seemed to cover the whole piece rather quickly and then got thicker over time rather than grow from where the wire was connecting which in that case was a glued on jump ring. Am I making sense? Another possibility is that I handled the shell too much after painting with the graphite. I have painted another shell wearing gloves to minimize the transfer of oils from my hands and I'll test this out tomorrow or Monday. Last question, does anyone know HOW CONDUCTIVE the paint needs to be in OHMs? I purchased a multimeter to be sure my paint was conductive enough since I was making my own, but I'm not sure how to read it. When I touch the two pins to either side of the shell the needle flies over to the "good" section so it seems like the shell is conductive... Thanks, Sharon in Iowa |
I think you will only get cladding where it started at the contact points. If it was going to cover it all it would have started all at once. Your coated surfaces are not connecting to each other so that is the source of it not working well for you.
I think the meter is not going to give you information that you can depend on if you are not familiar with using the meter. I suggest using tweezers or pliers to handle things once you are at the coating stage so the is the absolute minimum contact. |
Thanks Phill... I'll give it another shot with the newly painted shell and see how that works. And I'll try to find some detailed instruction on the meter... starting with Google of course. :)
Sharon in Iowa |
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